Title: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 02:23:27 AM http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Chidambaram-for-plugging-regulatory-gaps-in-financial-sector/articleshow/20203564.cms
Sounds like Bitcoin to me as per the quote below. But with limited or no understanding of the technology involved. Quote "The present arrangements have a number of gap areas, where no regulators are unambiguously in-charge, such as issue of regulatory oversight over diverse Ponzi schemes that we have discovered recently. These are cleverly designed to be out of the purview of regulatory agencies," he said. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: axorb on May 23, 2013, 04:29:03 AM Could be a reference to a a big scam in West Bengal , I don't remember exactly , but it was some kind of Ponzi scheme
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 05:17:25 AM Could be a reference to a a big scam in West Bengal , I don't remember exactly , but it was some kind of Ponzi scheme But that was a regular one. The main thing that caught my attention was where they have mentioned Quote These are cleverly designed to be out of the purview of regulatory agencies Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: drdanishkhan on May 23, 2013, 05:48:48 AM Whats the worst case scenario here??
Edit. No income tax for me yet ;D Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 23, 2013, 04:18:53 PM Popularization of bitcoins in India will result in prohibition of bitcoins and criminalization of the whole area. From government point of view it is illegal alternative remittance system.
When it happens, we all know whom to blame for that. ;) Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 04:23:17 PM Popularization of bitcoins in India will result in prohibition of bitcoins and criminalization of the whole area. From government point of view it is illegal alternative remittance system. When it happens, we all know whom to blame for that. ;) I do not think it will be any different from what ECB and finCEN have done. Regulations, KYC, AML at the most. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 23, 2013, 04:33:16 PM Popularization of bitcoins in India will result in prohibition of bitcoins and criminalization of the whole area. From government point of view it is illegal alternative remittance system. When it happens, we all know whom to blame for that. ;) I do not think it will be any different from what ECB and finCEN have done. Regulations, KYC, AML at the most. first person to go to jail will be buysellbitcoins, next they will get frozen all bank accounts of people who has done transactions with him. Indian business model based on prohibition. Once it will come to their attention, I have little doubts what will be the next. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 23, 2013, 04:40:49 PM look what is happening in China
China Telecom to block all Bitcoin related traffic to China? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214227.msg2246351#msg2246351 Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 04:42:50 PM Popularization of bitcoins in India will result in prohibition of bitcoins and criminalization of the whole area. From government point of view it is illegal alternative remittance system. When it happens, we all know whom to blame for that. ;) I do not think it will be any different from what ECB and finCEN have done. Regulations, KYC, AML at the most. first person to go to jail will be buysellbitcoins, next they will get frozen all bank accounts of people who has done transactions with him. Indian business model based on prohibition. Once it will come to their attention, I have little doubts what will be the next. I cannot see the same happening. In the event that there is a new introduction into a financial space which does not look legit, the RBI/ Court will first issue a cease and desist warning. If the business does not comply with the warning, that is when trouble starts. This has not happened as yet, although certain banks have been getting curious. Also, There has been no Ponzi, no complaints or no damage done to any individual through actions till date, hence, I cannot see this as a large problem. What we need to be ready for, is a disclosure of Bitcoin income for taxes. But that is only for sellers/ buyers who use a centralized service. There is absolutely no documentation on what can be done if physical goods/ digital goods are sold for Bitcoin. That is the eventual place where it needs to be at. Where people trade on a daily basis rather than speculate. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 04:44:24 PM look what is happening in China China Telecom to block all Bitcoin related traffic to China? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214227.msg2246351#msg2246351 I read it some time ago and it looks like FUD. If you check the link, no Chinese nodes have been affected. http://blockchain.info/ip-log May be a US company doing this. But it will be interesting to watch any new developments. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 04:46:03 PM look what is happening in China China Telecom to block all Bitcoin related traffic to China? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214227.msg2246351#msg2246351 I read it some time ago and it looks like FUD. If you check the link, no Chinese nodes have been affected. http://blockchain.info/ip-log May be a US company doing this. But it will be interesting to watch any new developments. Maybe not FUD, but very very early reports. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Dashing on May 23, 2013, 04:47:44 PM Hmm, this had to happen sooner or later, huge amounts flowing from everyones (bitcoin) wallets everyday, government has to find a way to stop/regulate it, which will be difficult to block it on the network level, people can use VPN, TOR etc, so they'll start a crack down, one by one, each person caught will reveal more, expose more people involved, few addresses and mobile numbers will reveal a lot :/
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 04:50:08 PM Hmm, this had to happen sooner or later, huge amounts flowing from everyones (bitcoin) wallets everyday, government has to find a way to stop/regulate it, which will be difficult to block it on the network level, people can use VPN, TOR etc, so they'll start a crack down, one by one, each person caught will reveal more, expose more people involved, few addresses and mobile numbers will reveal a lot :/ U saying they may go after every single person with a satoshi? That is impossible, it would be like trying to regulate marijuana.. and we know how well those regulations work. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Dashing on May 23, 2013, 04:51:57 PM Hmm, this had to happen sooner or later, huge amounts flowing from everyones (bitcoin) wallets everyday, government has to find a way to stop/regulate it, which will be difficult to block it on the network level, people can use VPN, TOR etc, so they'll start a crack down, one by one, each person caught will reveal more, expose more people involved, few addresses and mobile numbers will reveal a lot :/ U saying they may go after every single person with a satoshi? That is impossible, it would be like trying to regulate marijuana.. and we know how well those regulations work. No, what I mean is they'll catch one person, make him spill a few beans about a few more people he has traded with or knows has bitcoins, soon one by one the list will grow. or they will catch 1 person and make a good example which will make others fear the same Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 23, 2013, 04:56:35 PM try to understand, they cannot control bitcoins, so they will prohibit it, declare it illegal, it is very simple. It is what they do always. Any remittance out of courtly is strictly regulated, they will not let this to continue. for example if you want to buy house abroad you can remit 200K usd, not more then that, and it is after subtitling all required documents. Do you think they wil tolerate remittance system which will allow to anyone to remit millions of dollars out of the country without them knowing it. No way!!!
there is no way to regulate bitcoins or control it for them, prohibition is easy. Accounts frozen money seized perfect and correct, government cracked down illicit remittance system. they will use any pretend, and act, like war on_ter_ror and prohibit it. they will put put it in same basket with hawala. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 05:06:52 PM try to understand, they cannot control bitcoins, so they will prohibit it, declare it illegal, it is very simple. It is what they do always. Any remittance out of courtly is strictly regulated, they will not let this to continue. for example if you want to buy house abroad you can remit 200K usd, not more then that, and it is after subtitling all required documents. Do you think they wil tolerate remittance system which will allow to anyone to remit millions of dollars out of the country without them knowing it. No way!!! there is no way to regulate bitcoins or control it for them, prohibition is easy. Accounts frozen money seized perfect and correct, government cracked down illicit remittance system. they will use any pretend, and act, like war on_ter_ror and prohibit it. they will put put it in same basket with hawala. Remittance one area where they can demonize Bitcoin. But they can't do much if it is sold as a commodity or a product. Every regulation tells us this. Hawala is not entirely illegal BTW. https://secure.interpol.int/Public/FinancialCrime/MoneyLaundering/hawala/default.asp The remittance laws dictate how Hawala can be used. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Dashing on May 23, 2013, 05:15:39 PM try to understand, they cannot control bitcoins, so they will prohibit it, declare it illegal, it is very simple. It is what they do always. Any remittance out of courtly is strictly regulated, they will not let this to continue. for example if you want to buy house abroad you can remit 200K usd, not more then that, and it is after subtitling all required documents. Do you think they wil tolerate remittance system which will allow to anyone to remit millions of dollars out of the country without them knowing it. No way!!! there is no way to regulate bitcoins or control it for them, prohibition is easy. Accounts frozen money seized perfect and correct, government cracked down illicit remittance system. they will use any pretend, and act, like war on_ter_ror and prohibit it. they will put put it in same basket with hawala. yeah, I know they cannot control it, its peer2peer like torrents, like I said in my previous reply, Quote Hmm, this had to happen sooner or later, huge amounts flowing from everyones (bitcoin) wallets everyday, government has to find a way to stop/regulate it, which will be difficult to block it on the network level, people can use VPN, TOR etc, so they'll start a crack down, one by one, each person caught will reveal more, expose more people involved, few addresses and mobile numbers will reveal a lot :/ Hence the reason I feel they'll do what they usually do, find 1 person and make a example out of that person :/ Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: subvolatil on May 23, 2013, 05:16:06 PM try to understand, they cannot control bitcoins, so they will prohibit it, declare it illegal, it is very simple. It is what they do always. Any remittance out of courtly is strictly regulated, they will not let this to continue. for example if you want to buy house abroad you can remit 200K usd, not more then that, and it is after subtitling all required documents. Do you think they wil tolerate remittance system which will allow to anyone to remit millions of dollars out of the country without them knowing it. No way!!! there is no way to regulate bitcoins or control it for them, prohibition is easy. Accounts frozen money seized perfect and correct, government cracked down illicit remittance system. they will use any pretend, and act, like war on_ter_ror and prohibit it. they will put put it in same basket with hawala. You raised a good issue here, pinwheel. the government going ahead and baning bitcoins, is the most the government can do, but before that, they will do every thing to stop the conversion of bitcoin to INR and vise-versa. The initial concentration will be through the money laundering act. to hit out on individual and businesses. Which was the reason i posted in the main section about paying taxis properly. [Benson you should pin that so that every one reads it and does start paying taxis on INR part of the bitcoin transactions]. When that wont work they will go after the banks that are working with bitcoin based companies. mainly freezing accounts. then they will go out for the ultimate kicker. world governments coming together and getting global agreement on curtailing the use of bitcoins. or regulating it. The global regulation is the one i'm scared of, it bassically would let you use bitcoins but the rules may require people to register your addresses before use. making unregistered addresses illegal. But that is some thing which wont happen for the next 10- 20 years. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Dashing on May 23, 2013, 05:19:23 PM and yeah what Pinwheel said is true, they'll hit the people where it hurts the most, their bank accounts, freezing bank accounts would be the best course of action for them I guess
EDIT : I think we should not give the govt. more ideas now by discussing more ways they can control bitcoin lol :P Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: subvolatil on May 23, 2013, 05:23:10 PM Quote Quote Hmm, this had to happen sooner or later, huge amounts flowing from everyones (bitcoin) wallets everyday, government has to find a way to stop/regulate it, which will be difficult to block it on the network level, people can use VPN, TOR etc, so they'll start a crack down, one by one, each person caught will reveal more, expose more people involved, few addresses and mobile numbers will reveal a lot :/ Hence the reason I feel they'll do what they usually do, find 1 person and make a example out of that person :/ Not giving a reason to the government is the best solution. Paying and filing proper returns. increase using bitcoins for purchases of goods and services within the country. and adding more people into this would help in convincing the government the benefits of the masses using bitcoins. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 23, 2013, 05:37:49 PM or they will catch 1 person and make a good example which will make others fear the same Note that they have done far worse during the drug war despite which there are more drugs on the planet than ever before. I would assume that this would be the same outcome on a Bitcoin ban. Anything decentralized like P2P or Growing plants cannot really be controlled within reasonable cost and effort despite maximum punishment. Few people may take a fall on the way to getting the system to work. But it will not be a mass effect. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 23, 2013, 07:45:29 PM or they will catch 1 person and make a good example which will make others fear the same Note that they have done far worse during the drug war despite which there are more drugs on the planet than ever before. I would assume that this would be the same outcome on a Bitcoin ban. Anything decentralized like P2P or Growing plants cannot really be controlled within reasonable cost and effort despite maximum punishment. Few people may take a fall on the way to getting the system to work. But it will not be a mass effect. it is matter of keeping face. why they went after Mtgox Dwolla account? Money leaving the system, a lot of money 600k btc transactions per day on mtgox, Government need money work for economy, so they can milk taxes later, they dont want money to disappear in cyberspace. Luckily bitcoins as a network from scratch designed to be resilient against attacks, so they went after money. It surprised me to see how network module in Bitcoin-Qt discover another nodes. If nothing works it goes to IRC channels. Old hacker's method used to control botnets. These guys know their staff. So, going after bitcoins as network would be real hard and costly. What they can do is to cut bitcoins from banks. And it is what they doing in UK and USA. India will follow no doubts. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Dashing on May 23, 2013, 07:52:59 PM No, they went after mtgoxs dwolla account because of the case coinlab filed against them, the US govt can only stop what's on their justriction, hence the reason they seized their dwolla account. This had nothing to do with bitcoin, all this happened because of the lawsuit which was filed by coinlab
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 23, 2013, 08:36:43 PM No, they went after mtgoxs dwolla account because of the case coinlab filed against them, the US govt can only stop what's on their justriction, hence the reason they seized their dwolla account. This had nothing to do with bitcoin, all this happened because of the lawsuit which was filed by coinlab or coinlab suite happens because of that in first place. it really not so important what happens first. they found weak point and pressing on it. Bitcoins draining their sick finance system which is already dead 3 times at least. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 24, 2013, 01:32:45 AM Bitcoins draining their sick finance system which is already dead 3 times at least. Hahahhaha, so true. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: buysellbitcoin on May 24, 2013, 08:22:39 AM Popularization of bitcoins in India will result in prohibition of bitcoins and criminalization of the whole area. From government point of view it is illegal alternative remittance system. When it happens, we all know whom to blame for that. ;) I do not think it will be any different from what ECB and finCEN have done. Regulations, KYC, AML at the most. first person to go to jail will be buysellbitcoins, next they will get frozen all bank accounts of people who has done transactions with him. Indian business model based on prohibition. Once it will come to their attention, I have little doubts what will be the next. Expecting almost whole Indian Bitcoin community having party there with me :) On a serious note, I do share your concerns on this topic but I believe as long as you have proper records of your transactions, and you pay tax, you will get chance to explain yourself. If they want to close down business, I will simply close it without any argument as long as they have proper legal tender and authority to ask me that. Bitcoin needs still at least 3 years in India to get mature. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: buysellbitcoin on May 24, 2013, 08:23:23 AM Bitcoins draining their sick finance system which is already dead 3 times at least. Hahahhaha, so true. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 24, 2013, 09:10:42 AM Popularization of bitcoins in India will result in prohibition of bitcoins and criminalization of the whole area. From government point of view it is illegal alternative remittance system. When it happens, we all know whom to blame for that. ;) I do not think it will be any different from what ECB and finCEN have done. Regulations, KYC, AML at the most. first person to go to jail will be buysellbitcoins, next they will get frozen all bank accounts of people who has done transactions with him. Indian business model based on prohibition. Once it will come to their attention, I have little doubts what will be the next. Expecting almost whole Indian Bitcoin community having party there with me :) On a serious note, I do share your concerns on this topic but I believe as long as you have proper records of your transactions, and you pay tax, you will get chance to explain yourself. If they want to close down business, I will simply close it without any argument as long as they have proper legal tender and authority to ask me that. Bitcoin needs still at least 3 years in India to get mature. No one will go to jail for dealing with BTC. Maybe some fines or cautions, but that is it. If someone uses BTC for unlawful purposes, then there may be problems. How do you identify the user of BTC? I pity the traders who need to make that judgement. I appreciate the cautiousness being taken with Bitcoin, but my gut instinct tells me that this time it is going to be different. Let me throw some points as to why: 1. The internet has become a cornerstone of National Security and defense, this cannot be taken down easily. 2. If anyone makes a move against Bitcoin, especially a country, expect a fight. 3. We are not in the same timelines as the 90's. Things have changed. Social media has made governments respect their citizens a wee bit more. 4. What will the Anons do if a government decides to go against the 'open currency of their internet'? 5. How will the intellectual public/ born anarchists react when they learn more about bitcoin? 6. There are steps that CIS will undertake to ensure that this does not happen. 7. Recent History: The drug war did not eradicate drugs, instead they spread like wildfire because people started learning more about them. People started questioning their governments and regulators and when no answer was attained, the war had to be called off. The war on t3rr0r was even worse. If we notice, now most of those people labelled as 't3rrorists' are now freedom fighters. In fact it was such a huge failure, that most people on the planet can be classified into atleast 3-5 buckets of t3rr0r characteristics. Hence it failed and has been called to halt. Hypothetically, if governments did not learn from the 2 case studies mentioned above; we are in for a long period of time where Bitcoin will remain hunted, but will eventually win under the weight of the oppressors. Alternatively, the governments could give up on banks (which may never happen) and decide that handling financial problems is not within their scope of rule. This is my vision of things to come. Absolutely no failure can be granted until there is an attempt. Imagine what needs to be done for a victory. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 24, 2013, 09:45:46 AM Indian business model based on prohibition. Once it will come to their attention, I have little doubts what will be the next. Indian Teleportation Device https://i.imgur.com/WHfzr9n.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/WHfzr9n.jpg) Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 24, 2013, 05:12:46 PM LOOK, you got money by cash deposit in bank, from person you dont know, you sent btc to someone you dont know, somewhere you dont have idea about. It is illegal remittance by all means of the law. bitcoins is unregulated territory they can turn it in any way they want. Imagine amount of shit Indian cop covering up. And here is such opportunity they not gonna miss it, I'm telling ya. If you have a friend lawyer ask if my interpretation correct or not. Bitcoins will mature in India, but it is hard to say how many years it will take, depend on the judge. I heard that female judges give more then males, but we dont have female judges in India, do we?
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 25, 2013, 01:01:56 AM LOOK, you got money by cash deposit in bank, from person you dont know, you sent btc to someone you dont know, somewhere you dont have idea about. It is illegal remittance by all means of the law. bitcoins is unregulated territory they can turn it in any way they want. Imagine amount of shit Indian cop covering up. And here is such opportunity they not gonna miss it, I'm telling ya. If you have a friend lawyer ask if my interpretation correct or not. Bitcoins will mature in India, but it is hard to say how many years it will take, depend on the judge. I heard that female judges give more then males, but we dont have female judges in India, do we? Quote Let me throw some points as to why: 1. The internet has become a cornerstone of National Security and defense, this cannot be taken down easily. 2. If anyone makes a move against Bitcoin, especially a country, expect a fight. 3. We are not in the same timelines as the 90's. Things have changed. Social media has made governments respect their citizens a wee bit more. 4. What will the Anons do if a government decides to go against the 'open currency of their internet'? 5. How will the intellectual public/ born anarchists react when they learn more about bitcoin? 6. There are steps that CIS will undertake to ensure that this does not happen. 7. Recent History: The drug war did not eradicate drugs, instead they spread like wildfire because people started learning more about them. People started questioning their governments and regulators and when no answer was attained, the war had to be called off. The war on t3rr0r was even worse. If we notice, now most of those people labelled as 't3rrorists' are now freedom fighters. In fact it was such a huge failure, that most people on the planet can be classified into atleast 3-5 buckets of t3rr0r characteristics. Hence it failed and has been called to halt. these are some points that have been racking my brains.. Try to reflect on these and you will notice that banks and governments are not that 'Powerful' any more! Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: subvolatil on May 25, 2013, 03:40:53 AM 1. The internet has become a cornerstone of National Security and defense, this cannot be taken down easily.
But it can be firewalled like china. even though the chinese dont stop technology progress by placing heavy regulations , it does prevent free press and human rights. 2. If anyone makes a move against Bitcoin, especially a country, expect a fight. Yup ! there will be a big backlash on this, but no country can stop the use of bitcoin because of it decentralized model. the regulation and any form of ban on bitcoin will only serve to create a criminal blackmarket. which history has shown it to be highly dangerous. 3. We are not in the same timelines as the 90's. Things have changed. Social media has made governments respect their citizens a wee bit more. dont know if that has filtered into India yet. remember the two girls they arrested just because they said some thing so harmless. ther is still miles to go for the government to catch up to modern technology. 4. What will the Anons do if a government decides to go against the 'open currency of their internet'? Well i certainly think that anon presence is not that much within india, but i do know that all anons will be against this and the LULZ will certainly be epic. 5. How will the intellectual public/ born anarchists react when they learn more about bitcoin? I'll tell you when that happens. black block all the way . heheheh *evil smile* 6. There are steps that CIS will undertake to ensure that this does not happen. Like what? Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 25, 2013, 05:36:40 AM that is all good and valid points. nobody can stop bitcoins what they can do is to outlaw it, criminalize. that what governments do alway with something beyond of their control. It cannot be unregulated for long, they will put it under penal code and it become regulated that way, case closed.
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 28, 2013, 03:32:19 AM Saw this by-law today
http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1621737/ Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 28, 2013, 08:14:52 AM it depend on country and government, in some countries hawala operators legalized, they can easily obtain permission and run their shop. But dont expect it happens here.
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 28, 2013, 08:16:08 AM it depend on country and government, in some countries hawala operators legalized, they can easily obtain permission and run their shop. But dont expect it happens here. There was also a note somewhere saying that they were planning on amending this by-law. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: spndr7 on May 28, 2013, 10:23:09 AM Bitcoin is a digital commodity.Selling or buying a commodity on peer to peer level is legal,as long as the seller is paying tax for it (if he includes that amount in his income).Registry of a transaction is only needed when the commodity is regulated by govt., like arms,vehicles,immovable property,stocks,bonds etc.
If I want to sell a LED TV to my friend.It will be totally legal,if I pay tax, for the money I got.If my friend smuggles LED TV to other country, he would be held responsible for smuggling not me. Assumption: Commodity is created in India and trading is done within India.So, no question of money laundering and illegality. So,If someone proves that certain amount of bitcoin was mined in India, and trade it on above conditions, within India, for rupees,it would be perfectly legal,until the govt. makes it mandatory to register domestic bitcoin transactions. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 28, 2013, 02:02:02 PM Bitcoin is a digital commodity.Selling or buying a commodity on peer to peer level is legal,as long as the seller is paying tax for it (if he includes that amount in his income).Registry of a transaction is only needed when the commodity is regulated by govt., like arms,vehicles,immovable property,stocks,bonds etc. If I want to sell a LED TV to my friend.It will be totally legal,if I pay tax, for the money I got.If my friend smuggles LED TV to other country, he would be held responsible for smuggling not me. Assumption: Commodity is created in India and trading is done within India.So, no question of money laundering and illegality. So,If someone proves that certain amount of bitcoin was mined in India, and trade it on above conditions, within India, for rupees,it would be perfectly legal,until the govt. makes it mandatory to register domestic bitcoin transactions. authorities did not see it as commodity, based on examples from UK and USA. If you transmitted money from one place to another by means of bitcoins it is money transmission service, not a commodity. On both ends of transaction is a flat currency bitcoins is just a means to transmit flat currency from one place to another. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: spndr7 on May 28, 2013, 03:47:15 PM Here I have mentioned domestic transaction.
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 28, 2013, 05:34:37 PM Here I have mentioned domestic transaction. what difference it make, if it domestic or not, how can you prove with bitcoins that it was in fact domestic transaction. If Indian government still ignoring this biz, just because it has no any significant volume. if volume increase they will act 100%. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: spndr7 on May 28, 2013, 06:44:59 PM Here I have mentioned domestic transaction. what difference it make, if it domestic or not, how can you prove with bitcoins that it was in fact domestic transaction. If Indian government still ignoring this biz, just because it has no any significant volume. if volume increase they will act 100%. If bitcoin was mined in India and it can be proved, it means its domestic. Even if govt. wants to act tough, after significant increase in volume,how will govt. dismantle sites and exchanges on tor and i2p like atlantis and silk road ? Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: subvolatil on May 29, 2013, 02:08:16 AM Here I have mentioned domestic transaction. what difference it make, if it domestic or not, how can you prove with bitcoins that it was in fact domestic transaction. If Indian government still ignoring this biz, just because it has no any significant volume. if volume increase they will act 100%. If bitcoin was mined in India and it can be proved, it means its domestic. Even if govt. wants to act tough, after significant increase in volume,how will govt. dismantle sites and exchanges on tor and i2p like atlantis and silk road ? Ok let me clear this thing up. for a Tax is to be levied on any item, it need to be represented in the national currency of the country levying tax. On products, tax is levied when import or export of products are done through countries or states. VAT , Sales tax, excise duty. etc. A tax cannot be levied on a currency of a different country, for example if you bring in USD into the country it is not taxed but the minute the USD hits the RBI system as a conversion to INR the tax on it is levied. or the RBI converts it into INR for TAX purpose. So tax is levied on the conversion of the currency. where currency is involved. if bitcoins are treated as currency then on the conversion of bitcoins to INR the tax will be levied. But if bitcoin is treated as a commodity the tax can be levied without the conversion of bitcoins and the tax is placed on the total value of bitcoins. so as there is a grey line over the definition by the government on bitcoins as to treat it as a commodity or a currency. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: spndr7 on May 29, 2013, 11:59:19 AM @subvolatil What does cryptoanarchy aims to achieve with respect to centralized control of govt. ?
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: subvolatil on May 29, 2013, 02:58:08 PM The ideal state is no control .
Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 30, 2013, 03:52:42 PM The ideal state is no control . do we have a state? state is gone, remained only states Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 31, 2013, 05:03:58 AM At the end, if a government regulated/ approved Bitcoin exchange comes into play, it may override all other Bitcoin exchanges and become a larger entry point.
Maybe that is where the government can also see its profits coming in while allowing a free market for Bitcoin. Through taxing/ earning a margin on trades. Any thoughts on that? Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 31, 2013, 07:24:52 AM At the end, if a government regulated/ approved Bitcoin exchange comes into play, it may override all other Bitcoin exchanges and become a larger entry point. Maybe that is where the government can also see its profits coming in while allowing a free market for Bitcoin. Through taxing/ earning a margin on trades. Any thoughts on that? sounds too pink in clouds, back to the ground Mr Benson Indian government always follow Western friends. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Benson Samuel on May 31, 2013, 07:38:18 AM Quote sounds too pink in clouds, back to the ground Mr Benson I have this vague ability to state things that happen somewhere in the future. :p Maybe coincidence... or is it? Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: Pinwheel on May 31, 2013, 08:53:41 AM Quote sounds too pink in clouds, back to the ground Mr Benson I have this vague ability to state things that happen somewhere in the future. :p Maybe coincidence... or is it? people believe in all sort of things. As prediction tool our intuition combined with assumptions historically proved be a faulty. In our modern age there is much better methods for prediction, Mostly based on System Dynamics. that can be of great value to make financial model with use of programs like Stella and see how introduction of bitcoins will influence dynamics of world financial systems. If we have such model we can scientifically prove that prohibition of bitcoins is a bad thing . We can run that model and see how different political decisions related to bitcoins can influence the future, let say in 15 -20 years. In world terms it is not much time, even in country terms it is not much time. One thing is quite obvious bitcoins is powerful financial tool, which will first destroy present system and then used to rebuild and establish new financial system for the whole world. Once bitcoins become dominant everybody will rush to join. In bitcoins I do not means exactly "bitcoins". Some new and more advanced cryptos will be created in near future, little doubts about that. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: spndr7 on May 31, 2013, 02:16:06 PM Quote One thing is quite obvious bitcoins is powerful financial tool, which will first destroy present system and then used to rebuild and establish new financial system for the whole world. Once bitcoins become dominant everybody will rush to join. In bitcoins I do not means exactly "bitcoins". Some new and more advanced cryptos will be created in near future, little doubts about that. +1At the end, if a government regulated/ approved Bitcoin exchange comes into play, it may override all other Bitcoin exchanges and become a larger entry point. Maybe that is where the government can also see its profits coming in while allowing a free market for Bitcoin. Through taxing/ earning a margin on trades. Any thoughts on that? Yaa, people should form bitcoin party in the same way as the pirate party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party) of Europe.Have some legislations in favour of bitcoin or even including bitcoin as an alternate national currency. Title: Re: Looks like they are not getting Bitcoin Post by: legendster on June 07, 2013, 08:57:33 PM Yaa, people should form bitcoin party in the same way as the pirate party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party) of Europe.Have some legislations in favour of bitcoin or even including bitcoin as an alternate national currency. LOL you are expecting that from a country that has THIS : ??? https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/75526_10200806226547221_1765025521_n.jpg |