Title: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: Trader Steve on June 23, 2011, 04:53:33 AM Doug Casey just came out with his knee-jerk reaction to bitcoin:
Doug Casey on Bitcoin and Currencies http://www.caseyresearch.com/cwc/doug-casey-bitcoin-and-currencies (http://www.caseyresearch.com/cwc/doug-casey-bitcoin-and-currencies) Here is a better analysis: Bitcoin: A New Commodity To Serve Market Demand http://economicsandliberty.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/bitcoin-a-new-commodity-created-to-serve-market-demand/ (http://economicsandliberty.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/bitcoin-a-new-commodity-created-to-serve-market-demand/) Comments? Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: Ruxum on June 23, 2011, 05:10:17 AM - never have heard of Doug Casey before this post anyway.
- his negative stance could have something to do with his investment interests "Frankly, I can’t see why anyone would, when there’s already an electronic digital currency like Bitcoin but backed with gold: GoldMoney. I should disclose that I’m a small investor in the company. But I have to say that I really do like GoldMoney. It does everything Bitcoin does – or did – but is backed by something of real value: gold. " Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: elggawf on June 23, 2011, 05:11:12 AM Like I posted in another thread that that 'article' showed up in: it's a goddamned press release.
In exactly the same way you shouldn't trust the analysis of Bitcoin by any asshole who's trying to sell you some, you certainly shouldn't trust a guy trashing Bitcoin when he's an investor in a competing outfit. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: Hook^ on June 23, 2011, 05:26:59 AM Doug is fairly positive about bitcoins. He is right that the value is swinging around too much to be useful for transactions. That should settle down in the future though.
Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: tavi on June 23, 2011, 05:34:47 AM Seems like a cool dude with many great ideas.
His sticky points seem to be gold and more visibly (with multiple mentions) last week's Mt.Gox hack(s), viruses/virii, etc. I attribute the first one to old habbits and the latter one -- to insufficient tech understanding of the network. Pros: "More and more people are on the Internet these days. We’ve both seen villagers in Africa with smart phones. It won’t be long before most everybody has one. Anyone with Internet access can arguably deal in Bitcoins, so they could potentially be very convenient to use. That’s a lot more people than the number who will take, say, Russian rubles, Zambian kwacha, or Vietnamese dong. Doug: I like the fact it’s untraceable and secret. I like the idea that it was trying to be an alternative to the dollar; it’s great to see people trying to get out of the U.S. dollar. The dollar is a state monopoly of the worst kind. The U.S. dollar has actually become a major weapon in the hands of the U.S. government now. All bank transactions go through the U.S. SWIFT system. Even the Chinese and Russians, who have no love for the U.S. government, have to use dollars for international trade. They don’t like it. Muslims all around the world are coming to feel that they are enemies of the United States, so they don’t want to use the dollar either. And the more regulations the U.S. puts in place about how money is transferred and used – like FATCA – the harder people will look for alternatives. The U.S. government is treating everyone’s dollars as its personal property." Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: billyjoeallen on June 23, 2011, 05:47:23 AM Doug Casey is a very savvy speculator, but of course I think he's wrong about Bitcoin. His electronic gold doesn't have everything Bitcoin has. It's not decentralized or distributed. It requires third party trust. I look forward to making a lot of money and buying into his anarcho-capitalist gated community in Argentina and building a vacation house just a little bigger than his on the seventh green :-D
Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: billyjoeallen on June 28, 2011, 08:22:41 AM Casey wrote a follow-up to his bitcoin article. He still doesn't get it. http://howestreet.com/2011/06/releasing-oil-reserves/ (http://howestreet.com/2011/06/releasing-oil-reserves/)
Doug Casey is old. I don't think it's much more complicated that that. His basic argument is that he can just trade gold instead. The two biggest flaws in his reasoning are: 1) You can't send physical gold over the wire, but if you send paper gold, it requires a trusted third party. 2) Unlike with Bitcoin, there is no limit to how much gold can be mined. I appreciate Doug helping in keeping the price of Bitcoin down while I am still buying it. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: Gabi on June 28, 2011, 08:29:43 AM - never have heard of Doug Casey before this post anyway. ^ThisTitle: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: relative on June 28, 2011, 08:45:12 AM Doug Casey is old. I don't think it's much more complicated that that. whoever this doug casey guy is, it might be wise to consider outside voices for once, instead of just dismissing them as "old", "doesn't get it", "bitcoin is something entirely different, you can't compare it to anything!". not just referring to you...the entire forum has this attitude. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: billyjoeallen on June 28, 2011, 08:48:45 AM Doug Casey is old. I don't think it's much more complicated that that. whoever this doug casey guy is, it might be wise to consider outside voices for once, instead of just dismissing them as "old", "doesn't get it", "bitcoin is something entirely different, you can't compare it to anything!". not just referring to you...the entire forum has this attitude. I know who Doug Casey is and you don't. I consider his opinion much more than yours and I disagree with it. I could give two shits what you think of my attitude, so, if you have nothing substantive to contribute, GTFO. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: koin on June 28, 2011, 08:50:57 AM Doug Casey is old. I don't think it's much more complicated that that. old, and already financially set. of those with similar political ideology, i generally see an inverse relationship between existing wealth and interest in bitcoins. fortunately bitcoin's success does not depend on there being a consensus that includes the doug caseys of the world. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: BitcoinPorn on June 28, 2011, 09:43:40 AM whoever this doug casey guy is, it might be wise to consider outside voices for once, instead of just dismissing them as "old", "doesn't get it", "bitcoin is something entirely different, you can't compare it to anything!". not just referring to you...the entire forum has this attitude. I know who Doug Casey is and you don't. I consider his opinion much more than yours and I disagree with it. I could give two shits what you think of my attitude, so, if you have nothing substantive to contribute, GTFO. Wow, I wonder how you would have replied if he WAS just referring to you lol Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: relative on June 28, 2011, 09:58:45 AM Doug Casey is old. I don't think it's much more complicated that that. whoever this doug casey guy is, it might be wise to consider outside voices for once, instead of just dismissing them as "old", "doesn't get it", "bitcoin is something entirely different, you can't compare it to anything!". not just referring to you...the entire forum has this attitude. I know who Doug Casey is and you don't. I consider his opinion much more than yours and I disagree with it. I could give two shits what you think of my attitude, so, if you have nothing substantive to contribute, GTFO. thanks for proving my point. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: ribuck on June 28, 2011, 10:35:28 AM It takes time for new ideas to become widely understood, and then it takes even more time for them to become widely accepted.
Just give Doug Casey some time. He already understands many of the problems that Bitcoin solves. In five years Doug will be proudly telling everyone how he has been involved with Bitcoin since 2011. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: DC3 on June 28, 2011, 10:47:35 AM Probably talking up his book while perhaps liquidating GoldMoney shares and nobody is buying... tough titty Doug. Better luck next time.
Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: YoYa on June 28, 2011, 10:53:53 AM http://howestreet.com/2011/06/releasing-oil-reserves/
Quote 1. Bitcoins provide an alternative currency to the dollar. This makes sense, but the question is whether this is the best alternative. For example, I can hedge my dollar risk with euros, Swiss francs, yen, etc. Furthermore, those options can pay interest. And one doesn’t need to choose a single currency but can choose a basket of them. Then there’s also gold and silver, the traditional play against a declining dollar. If one is trying to hedge against the dollar, these options are more than adequate. I don’t see Bitcoin as having an advantage here. 2. Bitcoin can be secretly transported across international borders. OK, sure, that seems like an advantage. There’s just one problem: I have no need to transfer large amounts of cash across international borders. Though this feature is often praised by Bitcoin supporters, how many have actually utilized it to circumvent international laws? Yeah, probably close to zero. 3. Bitcoin allows for anonymous transactions online and helps avoid taxes. Sounds nice, but personally, I have nothing to hide regarding my online transactions. Maybe if I was operating an online business, this would be great, but as a regular consumer, I don’t see any advantages here. After all, I already avoid sales tax by shopping online; and I’m not going to violate tax laws. On top of this, my favorite online retailers don’t accept Bitcoin; so why exactly should I start using it? However, if one is doing something illegal, then Bitcoin would seem to be more useful. As has been reported, Bitcoin has been used to sell illegal drugs online. Now, Bitcoin supporters claim that this is overhyped and that these illicit deals are giving Bitcoin a bad name. In reality, I see this as the only comparative advantage of this currency. Sure, one can still be tracked with Bitcoin, but it would be harder than a transfer from a credit card or bank account. But since I have no intention of buying drugs online or off, the currency is worthless to me. So what’s the point? 4. Bitcoin is free-market money. Since there are few practical reasons to use Bitcoin, the supporters grab onto the idea that it’s free-market money. Hence, we’re somehow saving the world by using it. That’s a big reason that the supporters get so upset when anyone criticizes Bitcoin. But here again, Bitcoin doesn’t offer anything unique. If I want to invest in free-market money, I can buy gold and silver — a store of value recognized around the world for centuries. Unless I’m planning some illegal transaction, Bitcoin just doesn’t seem like a useful product to me. For everything Bitcoins offer, other, better alternatives already exist. Bitcoin is an interesting idea; I just don’t find it useful. For the rest of the issue, the Casey Research energy team will discuss the release of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Then, I’ll provide a few links as usual. Instead of defending bitcoin.....how about we listen instead? This is about as balanced a criticism we are going to get. He's essentially saying that bitcoin is not yet functional enough to offer an advantage to everyday users, and essentially this asks what are we going to do in the name of innovation to change this. I for one support this view, just because bitcoin is an innovation in itself does not guarantee success! So! Let's work to innovate! And remember...innovation is not about moments of inspiration, it is an iterative repetitive process of analysis and design. Bitcoin is our framework to provide the solutions we tout bitcoin as solving, the only problem is that if we don't innovate to make these solutions a reality, then the true value of bitcoin will never be realized! Google trends shows interest as waning, what are we going to do that the next time bitcoin shows up in the popular media the news is of innovation? Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2011, 10:56:14 AM I stopped listening when he said goldmoney was the same as bitcoin.
Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: DC3 on June 28, 2011, 11:16:04 AM Quote 1. Bitcoins provide an alternative currency to the dollar. This makes sense, but the question is whether this is the best alternative. For example, I can hedge my dollar risk with euros, Swiss francs, yen, etc. Furthermore, those options can pay interest. And one doesn’t need to choose a single currency but can choose a basket of them. Then there’s also gold and silver, the traditional play against a declining dollar. If one is trying to hedge against the dollar, these options are more than adequate. I don’t see Bitcoin as having an advantage here. Yep, there are dollars, rubles, euros, franks, Mongolian tugriks, gold, silver, and yep now bitcoin. Some of them are even paying interest (though at the time it is effectively negative one). What's your point here Doug? Never seen a principally new asset class yet? Than check correlation of all those fiat currencies, metals, stocks, bonds etc... Compare with bitcoin. This lack of bitcoin's correlation to other asset classes alone makes it worthwhile to have bitcoins in any balanced investment portfolio. You should know this, Doug. Quote 2. Bitcoin can be secretly transported across international borders. OK, sure, that seems like an advantage. There’s just one problem: I have no need to transfer large amounts of cash across international borders. Though this feature is often praised by Bitcoin supporters, how many have actually utilized it to circumvent international laws? Yeah, probably close to zero. Ever tried to send 100$ to your mama in Mexico? Nahh probably not. Quote 3. Bitcoin allows for anonymous transactions online and helps avoid taxes. Sounds nice, but personally, I have nothing to hide regarding my online transactions. Maybe if I was operating an online business, this would be great, but as a regular consumer, I don’t see any advantages here. After all, I already avoid sales tax by shopping online; and I’m not going to violate tax laws. On top of this, my favorite online retailers don’t accept Bitcoin; so why exactly should I start using it? However, if one is doing something illegal, then Bitcoin would seem to be more useful. As has been reported, Bitcoin has been used to sell illegal drugs online. Now, Bitcoin supporters claim that this is overhyped and that these illicit deals are giving Bitcoin a bad name. In reality, I see this as the only comparative advantage of this currency. Sure, one can still be tracked with Bitcoin, but it would be harder than a transfer from a credit card or bank account. But since I have no intention of buying drugs online or off, the currency is worthless to me. So what’s the point? Yep Doug, use that credit card of yours and you will be fine. Do not use cash though, because you know, it can be used for drugs and such... Quote ...Bitcoin doesn’t offer anything unique.... Right... I suppose you can teleport gold at will, Doug. Title: Re: Doug Casey on Bitcoin - he just doesn't get it... Post by: Gleb Gamow on July 05, 2015, 03:51:07 AM https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2011/12/21/why-i-moved-to-dougs-gulch-in-argentina.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20110627031744/http://www.dollarvigilante.com/galtsgulch http://web.archive.org/web/20110627031744im_/http://www.dollarvigilante.com/storage/thumbnails/7609397-11293771-thumbnail.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1308854949645 I say Doug Casey understands Bitcoin pretty well. Just ask his friend Chris Eyerman aka Jack Freeman, the City Clerk of Sonny Vleisides' Laissez Faire City. http://www.erissociety.org/eris99.html Quote Conference Chair: Vernie Kuglin Wednesday, August 4 Opening Session, Welcoming Remarks Vernie Kuglin, Doug Casey Karl Hess, Jr. Ph.D., An Anarchist's Life Paul Rosenberg, Optical Fiber, the Internet, and the Private Economy Michael H. Hart, Ph.D, A View From the Year 3000: A Ranking of the 100 Most Influential Persons of All Time Wes McKinley, The Rocky Flats Grand Jury Liah Kraft-Kristaine, Brain Power for the 21st Century John Landgraf, Ph.D. and Jack Freeman, Laissez Faire City: The Cyberspace Economic Community Richard Panek, Seeing and Believing: How the Telescope Opened Our Eyes and Minds to the Heavens Guess who chaired Casey's next meetup. |