Bitcoin Forum

When I discovered Bitcoin in 2012, I got this warm fuzzy feeling of excitement, and I just had to invest in some. And all this time since then I never bothered with altcoins since they hardly offered anything new that bitcoin couldn't do.

But then along comes the IOTA tangle system and completely blew my mind. How can you design a cryptocurrency without a blockchain? And without transaction fees? Without miners and without PoS? And to top it off completely scalable. Apparently the tangle system does away with the need for a blockchain and gives us the opportunity to transact with eachother completely free.

I think IOTA will give Bitcoin a run for it's money once it grows a bit more and is tested more unless the lightning network works as intended and will also give us practically free transactions. I'm hoping lightning network works as intended, but if not I have taken a small stake in IOTA as a hedge against Bitcoin failing.

Most of my holdings are still in Bitcoin, but I've invested some into IOTA since it is just about the only other cryptocurrency I believe in atm. Ethereum doesn't scale well and will loose in the long run I believe. All the privacy focused coins will loose to privacy features implemented in coins with more network effect. And don't even get me started on the copy cat coins and hardforks of bitcoin.

The warm fuzzy feeling is back and I'm gonna get rich with IOTA, I can feel it in my bones. :)

Yes I agree but what gives the token value?

Same as any other cryptocurrency, the community built around it consisting of users, developers, speculators, traders, investors, exchanges companies and eventually banks.

But the technology behind IOTA, the tangle is superior to blockchain technology, and when the broader cryptocurrency community sees this, they will also want a stake in it.

We should not forget that bitcoin was created to be a new payment system. To replace fucking fiat. The fact that its being traded alone cant give a coin real value. People on the streets still have no idea what bitcoin even is. They dont care at all. Its only used for buying drugs and is used for money laundering and fraud. And thats it. Nobody is using it for anything else. You dont buy a pizza for bitcoin. You dont pay rent in bitcoin. You dont use it at all unless you buy some drugs. And that alone is the reason why BTC goes up. If I want to buy some drugs I NEED bitcoin. I dont care if a bitcoin is 2000$ or 5000$. I just get a bit to pay someone and my btc is gone again.

Now tell me. Put aside those fancy special super duper features of IOTA and tell me why I would buy it. Why would I buy it regardless of current price. Why is it of any value to anyone. If you cant, then you know that its just another shitcoin pumped and dumped till faded away along with your worthless fiat.

No offense. I would really like to know if it has true value. But right now I cant see it in any coin except of BTC.

Yes, Bitcoin was created to replace fiat -- but there isn't anything specific in Bitcoin that makes it better for that purpose than other cryptos. In fact, e.g. IOTA is technically much better for that purpose.

Two absolutely fundamental differences that make IOTA better: 1) Bitcoin is limited by the number of transactions that can be processed per minute and, consquently, 2) high fees. Even when Bitcoin implements the Lightning Network to largely solve the transaction rate limitations, there will still *always* be fees. Currently the fees are really high, but even if they would get much lower -- which is not the agenda by the Bitcoin Core developers, by the way -- lowish fees are still infinitely higher than *zero* fees.

Regarding the total value potential for cryptocurrencies, the World Economic Forum and e.g. Deloitte have estimated cryptocurrencies to be worth $5-10T by 2025. Everyone can then make their own estimates and bets on which currencies will get which share of that potential and why. But infinite scalability, super-fast transactions (once the volume on the network is high enough), zero fees, and quantum-resistant security are hard to beat.

Irrespective of how much of the everyday payment flow of people IOTA could capture -- in whatever future replacements/reincarnations of credit card readers in stores or 'crypto-based Paypals' -- there are also other value pools more specific to IOTA. Think of their most widely quoted use cases like charging of electric vehicles (and why not fuel also) -- or any other devices/machines/things that would interact with value. The companies running these services will need some amount of 'liquid working capital' in the system to keep the transaction streams flowing seamlessly. The total amount of working capital in the world in 2015 was $3.5T according to PWC. As the economy and enterprises become increasingly digital, new and more effective forms of electronic capital will increasingly take their share of this chunk.

To not give the impression that IOTA is the be-all-end-all of all cryptocurrencies, the thing IOTA can't do as well as some other cryptos are e.g. advanced (Turing complete) smart contracts, like Ethereum. But IOTA and Ethereum aren't really competitors, rather highly complementary. IOTA and Ethereum are the two that have a crystal clear role and value proposition in this emerging era, and big-name corporations are signing up to start developing and figuring out how to make this vision into reality. That's why most of my crypto holdings are in these two.

Just my 20c  (or in fact, a hell of a lot more)

I agree wholeheartedly, IOTA is the only other crypto that has made my heart miss a beat since discovering Bitcoin back in 2013.

NO FEES AND IT SCALES.

I don't know how to argue with it.

Yea good idea to invest in IOTA when it's low price

I also belive that project ls a sleeping giant with its value. It has a potential to be #2 market cap next year. They promise an alternative revolution for cryptoworld.

The way to go buy low and sell high!
Not only IOTA but OmiseGo, NEM, Lisk, Tether, Bitshares e.t.c.
They are all great low price altcoins to make a lot profits in the future.

Whats the current price on this coin? Or link to whitepaper please! Much appreciated.

no fees and scaling and no blockchain? ill have to do some reading on how that works

It uses DAG - directed acyclic graph, not only crypto that uses it though. You can start by reading the whitepaper https://iota.org/IOTA_Whitepaper.pdf

If you dont want to dig into the WP hear is the one of the best breakdowns of IOTA I have come across. Edges on slightly technical however its worth every word


IOTA & the Post-Blockchain Era
David Sønstebø, co-founder of IOTA, discusses this next-generation post-blockchain platform designed to serve as the backbone for the Internet-of-Things (IoT).

https://soundcloud.com/arthurfalls/ether-review-69-iota-the-post-blockchain-era (https://soundcloud.com/arthurfalls/ether-review-69-iota-the-post-blockchain-era)

Big dips recently due to security vulneralbility found recently in their home-rolled crypto algo

https://www.coindesk.com/broken-hash-function-iota-price-drops-on-tech-critique/

A deeper look into it - https://hacked.com/iota-update-tangled-web-home-rolled-cryptography/

Makes me trust them less due to the way they tried to squirm out of this issue, not completely transparant..

More info from one of the MIT researchers who found the vuln - https://medium.com/@neha/cryptographic-vulnerabilities-in-iota-9a6a9ddc4367

FYI I'm not trying to create FUD, I was actually looking to get some IOTA myself and was researching.

I'm slightly concerned actually since i got some BitDice ICO which is going to be using the IOTA ledger for their microtransactions.. eeek..  :(

I believe they were transparent on the issue, granted they didnt field the scrutiny well. There was a hole a few months back and they fixed it. This is standard operating procedure for development. The "critique" got completely overblown and the blogsphere amplified it. Also MIT's DCI is under review for possible involvement in market manipulation as a result of how the information was distributed.

Heres the source of the controversy without any editorial liberties


CFB's letters to Neha Narula's team during their analysis of Curl-P hash function

https://gist.github.com/Come-from-Beyond/a84ab8615aac13a4543c786f9e35b84a (https://gist.github.com/Come-from-Beyond/a84ab8615aac13a4543c786f9e35b84a)

 there  are  other  criptosare also scalable

DAG, I will have to check into that part and pay close attention to how it works

I bought some IOTA as well just to hold it for the better times. Even though nowadays there are lots of coins and it's rather hard for a new one to offer something truly innovative and worth believing in, I honestly thing IOTA did it! I mean, really this graph system instead of the chain of blocks is really something to take a look at. Unfortunately, IOTA is not really considered that important nowadays and we can see it falling down a lot, but I certainly hope you are right and we'll get rich because of it.

It's still really important, I hear all my crypto friends bring it up all the time, even ones who only hold btc

we are now at a low price thanks to FUD.
what do you think will happen until end of year? there are a lot of good news ahead I think (new exchanges, data marketplace with >24 large corps, private transactions). I think 1-2 dollar is possible or?

I think it is possible. That's why I buy IOTA now.

Iota is very interesting coin/technology and will possibly be adapted in real world applications soon big time, but why would price go up ?
I mean there won't be shortage of iotas any time soon... (i have some so i have been paying attention)

Daily volume is just over one percent of market cap, 1/100 ?

Market Cap
$1,230,125,599
 
Volume (24h)
usually around $10-15m

ETP that has gained some value, well, price: daily volumes are 1/10 to 1/4 of mc
even bitcoins dv is 1/50 to 1/30 range of mc

that's huge difference compared to 1/100

What would chance for Iota no matter how good news it gets ? Price might actually dump really hard to $.10 level rather than rise significantly.

(no offence to other hodlers, just curious about your thoughts)

cheers

look at NEM volume. it is also low compared to marketcap. i think your arguments are not valid. also it will be added to other exchanges soon i think

Anyone saying fud is what affect the price shouldplease look at themirror first, when a developer put flaw intentionally into his code what do you expect the public to say, any again they need to work on how they approach the public because the team messed up everything

it was never a real flaw. look here: https://blog.iota.org/curl-disclosure-beyond-the-headline-1814048d08ef

"Regarding the practicality of attacks
The attacks presented in Narula et al.’s paper, while being valid academic criticisms of the latest public version of the Curl hash function, do not represent valid attacks on the IOTA cryptocurrency. Here’s why:
Forging signatures on IOTA payments
The “waste money” and “steal money” attacks primarily rely on Eve being able to goad Alice into signing bundles crafted by Eve and then being faster in getting her bundle confirmed than Alice’s:
Firstly, none of the existing IOTA wallets offer this functionality of signing foreign bundles — Alice would therefore have to be a proficient programmer to manually sign a bundle using existing libraries and naive enough to sign a bundle she did not create.
Secondly, for Eve to be able to generate such a bundle in the first place, Eve would have to know which addresses belong to Alice. Eve can not calculate addresses belonging to Alice from knowing just one of Alice’s addresses, so this attack would require prior seed compromise by Eve (making the entire attack moot) or Alice leaking her address to Eve in the first place.
Thirdly, only one of each of Eve’s bundles can exist on an IOTA node at any given time. Without Eve having better network propagation than Alice or executing a successful eclipse attack against Alice, Eve would not be successful in being able to see her malicious bundle confirmed before Alice’s bundle is confirmed. However, the mesh network characteristics of the IOTA network make such an eclipse attack very hard to implement.
These requirements are exceptionally unlikely to occur in practice, making the presented attack impractical — even less so when combined with the earlier points."


that is also the reason why he used it as a copy protection. he knows what he is doing. this guy is a genius.
he used copy protection also in NXT and nobody cares.
you are either misinformed or a FUD agent

today BOSCH will announce official partnership with IOTA. really exciting.
price reacted a little bit so far. went to 50 cent last night during announcement in meetup

you think a lot don't you. sounds more like hoping than actually thinking.

with your thinking Iota goes up even when freely circulating supply expands suddenly and these news you think are coming keeps coming. right ?
may i ask who buys this expanded supply (so eagerly that price moons) ? remember tulips ?

i rather stick with my arguments, cheers

lately the iota has lost its leading position. DAG is now not in a trend? I thought for him the future

I also have that feeling. It is one of the most unique projects on the field.
But I had very same feeling in past, about DAO which was hacked, so I don't trust my feelings! lol.

the reason I like Iota is they are adding key members to the team all the time.
They are present at every major event.
There is no real development but I believe if you hodl IOTA for 2 - 3 years you will see great profits.

are you sure? they have coded flash network in few months while Lightning Network or Raiden or still "ideas" since years
Also private transactions and smart contracts will come in the near future. UCL (yes the university...) is developing a great new wallet.