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Title: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: ronaldlee0917 on May 25, 2013, 04:25:19 PM http://blockchain.info/tx/7833ed0e395ff3cdc59ab10a2b2e5264532f26437b7cd42d9a2802fd5c8d0671 (http://blockchain.info/tx/7833ed0e395ff3cdc59ab10a2b2e5264532f26437b7cd42d9a2802fd5c8d0671)
I used Multibit to send the bitcoins and it automatically added a fee of 0.0001btc, I thought it would get confirmed quickly but it was not. Will it get confirmed eventually after a day or two? I am starting to hate Bitcoin, whether I include a fee or not, they take forever to be confirmed, the confirmation mechanism is the major obstacle to mass adoption. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: grue on May 25, 2013, 04:42:34 PM Keep in mind that 0.0001 BTC is less than 2 cents. If you want fast confirmation times, paying a fee of 0.001 BTC (less than 15 cents) would ensure confirmation within 1 hour.
Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: ronaldlee0917 on May 25, 2013, 04:49:07 PM Keep in mind that 0.0001 BTC is less than 2 cents. If you want fast confirmation times, paying a fee of 0.001 BTC (less than 15 cents) would ensure confirmation within 1 hour. Thats the problem of Bitcoin, you have to pay more to ensure it is done quickly.What if I am going to buy just an apple that costs $0.5, then I have to pay $0.1 to have it confirmed quickly. That's 20% of the cost and I have to stand there for an hour like an idiot. Bitcoin as a fast payment method is a joke. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: grue on May 25, 2013, 04:51:48 PM Thats the problem of Bitcoin, you have to pay more to ensure it is done quickly. Bitcoin is not for microtransactions. Also keep in mind that most payment processors charge the merchant $0.25 + 2.5% in fees. Assuming you have some sort of high volume merchant account, and your fees are $0.20 + 2%, that transaction would have cost you at least 0.188 BTC. If you included that as a fee, your transaction will be in the next block guaranteed.What if I am going to buy just an apple that costs $0.5, then I have to pay $0.1 to have it confirmed quickly. That's 20% of the cost and I have to stand there for an hour like an idiot. Bitcoin as a fast payment method is a joke. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: halfawake on May 25, 2013, 06:48:39 PM I see a lot of these posts asking why confirmations aren't happening more quickly. grue compared Bitcoin to credit cards, but I think a better comparison to the traditional financial world is money transfers between banks. I just initiated one of those a few days ago and it's going to take 5 - 7 business days to complete. I'd love it if traditional bank transfers took only two days like bitcoin does at the longest (I think).
Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: Abdussamad on May 25, 2013, 10:21:22 PM Bitcoin is slow. That's just the way it is. The rule of thumb is that you have to wait for 6 confirmations and that can take an hour at least.
@OP: Your transaction will confirm eventually. Even zero fee transactions confirm eventually. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 26, 2013, 10:51:10 AM If you buy an apple, the merchant will not make you stand there for an hour, he will let you eat the apple and then ban you from the store if you double spend.
Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: Abdussamad on May 26, 2013, 10:57:03 AM You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment.
Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 26, 2013, 10:59:41 AM You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment. Not if they use something I'm developing.Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: Abdussamad on May 26, 2013, 11:01:21 AM You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment. Not if they use something I'm developing.Oh, do tell?!! Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: Remember remember the 5th of November on May 26, 2013, 11:04:57 AM You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment. Not if they use something I'm developing.Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on May 26, 2013, 11:49:31 AM You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment. Not if they use something I'm developing.I will make an announcement when it's ready. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: grue on May 26, 2013, 04:40:24 PM Not if they use something I'm developing. Oh, do tell?!! Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: ISAWHIM on May 27, 2013, 06:33:17 PM [Bitcoin is not for microtransactions. Yes, it is. That is why it has 0.00000001 decimals. WE decided to LIMIT micro-transactions. It was DESIGNED for micro-transactions, WE simply agreed to limit them with code. Yes, it will take longer to go through, but it will eventually go through. Most servers don't even check or care about "free" or "micro"... However, they are the last ones to get done, since higher paying customers have paid for transactions to go through faster. The priority is set in code, and reinforced on servers. Not MADE for micro-transactions, my ass... lol. That was the whole purpose of bitcoins. To be "bits" (micro). Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: grue on May 27, 2013, 09:02:27 PM Yes, it is. That is why it has 0.00000001 decimals. satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses.WE decided to LIMIT micro-transactions. It was DESIGNED for micro-transactions, WE simply agreed to limit them with code. Yes, it will take longer to go through, but it will eventually go through. Most servers don't even check or care about "free" or "micro"... However, they are the last ones to get done, since higher paying customers have paid for transactions to go through faster. The priority is set in code, and reinforced on servers. Not MADE for micro-transactions, my ass... lol. That was the whole purpose of bitcoins. To be "bits" (micro). Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: DannyHamilton on May 27, 2013, 10:50:08 PM - snip - Yes, it will take longer to go through, but it will eventually go through. Most servers don't even check or care about "free" or "micro"... However, they are the last ones to get done, since higher paying customers have paid for transactions to go through faster. The priority is set in code, and reinforced on servers. - snip - You really don't know what you're talking about and should stop repeating this nonsense. You're just going to confuse others. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: BTConomist on May 27, 2013, 11:30:08 PM satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses. Interesting... Do you remember where he had said that? I can't seem to remember ever reading such assertion. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: solex on May 27, 2013, 11:40:09 PM Not if they use something I'm developing. Oh, do tell?!! Excellent. This is exactly what is needed to make Bitcoin better for quick transactions at bricks-and-mortar shops. It is already supreme for on-line purchases because people expect a delay before receipt of goods. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: DannyHamilton on May 27, 2013, 11:54:22 PM satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses. I can't seem to remember ever reading such assertion. Here's the closest I could find with a quick search: - snip - A transaction is over the maximum size limit if it has to add up more than 500 of the largest payments you've received to make up the amount. A transaction over the size limit can still be sent if a small fee is added. The average transaction, and anything up to 500 times bigger than average, is free. It's only when you're sending a really huge transaction that the transaction fee ever comes into play, and even then it only works out to something like 0.002% of the amount. It's not money sucked out of the system, it just goes to other nodes. If you're sad about paying the fee, you could always turn the tables and run a node yourself and maybe someday rake in a 0.44 fee yourself. It would be nice to keep the blk*.dat files small as long as we can. The eventual solution will be to not care how big it gets. But for now, while it's still small, it's nice to keep it small so new users can get going faster. When I eventually implement client-only mode, that won't matter much anymore. There's more work to do on transaction fees. In the event of a flood, you would still be able to jump the queue and get your transactions into the next block by paying a 0.01 transaction fee. However, I haven't had time yet to add that option to the UI. Scale or not, the test network will react in the same ways, but with much less wasted bandwidth and annoyance. Emphasis added by me. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: BTConomist on May 28, 2013, 12:11:42 AM satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses. I can't seem to remember ever reading such assertion. Here's the closest I could find with a quick search: - snip - ...A transaction over the size limit can still be sent if a small fee is added... In the event of a flood, you would still be able to jump the queue and get your transactions into the next block by paying a 0.01 transaction fee. It doesn't mean that bitcoin is "not designed for micro-payments"... He merely clarified what would happen to certain transactions if txn fee is not included. Remember, the goal is to eventually have fees assigned to pretty much every transaction in the block chain. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: DannyHamilton on May 28, 2013, 01:33:29 AM It doesn't mean that bitcoin is "not designed for micro-payments"... He merely clarified what would happen to certain transactions if txn fee is not included. Remember, the goal is to eventually have fees assigned to pretty much every transaction in the block chain. Stating that fees will be required for pretty much every transaction in the blockchain (and basing the value of those fees on the size of the transaction in bytes) pretty much implies that bitcoin is not "designed for micro-payments", since the direct effect of micro-payments in the bitcoin design is to result in very large transactions (in terms of bytes) for a very low value transfer. As such, the transaction fee becomes a prohibitively large percentage of the transaction value. Title: Re: 6 hours no confirmation, with fees Post by: Anon136 on May 28, 2013, 01:38:48 AM [Bitcoin is not for microtransactions. Yes, it is. That is why it has 0.00000001 decimals. WE decided to LIMIT micro-transactions. It was DESIGNED for micro-transactions, WE simply agreed to limit them with code. Yes, it will take longer to go through, but it will eventually go through. Most servers don't even check or care about "free" or "micro"... However, they are the last ones to get done, since higher paying customers have paid for transactions to go through faster. The priority is set in code, and reinforced on servers. Not MADE for micro-transactions, my ass... lol. That was the whole purpose of bitcoins. To be "bits" (micro). no, that 0.00000001 is there in case bitcoins become so valuable that 0.00000001 is a serious amount of money, not so you can send tiny amounts of money. |