Bitcoin Forum

This order was placed based upon market conditions PRIOR to the attack... and was subsequently executed as a result of that attack.

I don't like being locked out of my account and being unable to fix my standing limit order.

Does anyone know for sure if our buy orders placed prior to the attack have been cleared out?

We all deserve a chance to evaluate our standing orders before having them execute beyond our control.

I really hope the intention of the 60 minute window before trading resumes is meant for people to be able to PLACE new orders... not scramble to protect themselves from having trades execute against their wishes.

This is really bothering me... I'm sure I'm not alone.







 

It's been stated many times --

All open orders have been canceled.

I'm in the same boat as you.  Before I went to bed the night before the attack, I place an buy order at 12, thinking, "hey, if I wake up and it executed, great!" but I really didn't expect it to.  I woke up the next day, and saw I had an email that the order was executed.  I tried to log into MtGox, and it was really slow.  Turns out the attack happend about 10 minutes prior to me waking up.

Anyway......

The way I read Mt Gox's current messages: "Users whose trades were effectively cancelled during the the sell-off will be able to trade for free for 1 month following the reopening...", you and I get free trades for a month, since our limit orders executed and will be cancelled by the rollback.

Where exactly did you read this?  I have asked for clarification of this fact.. and I have yet to find it..   All I have found is speculation and heresay...

Could you please do me a kindness, .....  LINK!?!?!

This is the best I can find...

" shortly after the backend is up and running we will allow customers with newly reclaimed accounts to login to Mt.Gox, and use the site as per usual, with the exception that active trading will be disabled. Users may place orders to buy or sell, but they will be queued until we enable trading, which will most likely be a couple of hours after users are able to login to Mt.Gox. "

" Users with reclaimed accounts will be able to login to Mt.Gox on Friday June 24th at 3:00 GMT (12:00 JST). Once you are logged back into the Mt.Gox site you will be able to withdraw and deposit funds as per usual. You will not be able to trade initially, but we plan to activate trading within an hour of the site being up (4:00 GMT)"

"We will relaunch the site on June 25 at 3:00 GMT. Trading will resume at 4:00 GMT (same day)."

Why does the first person crucify me for asking for clarification on this fact?  Yet provide no source to where he gained this info.

As far as I know.. there has been NO STATEMENTS regarding open orders...  only executed ones...

please someone .. if you have info regarding this fact,.. I need to know for sure.

I made arrangements to be available tonight to get in and fix my accounts before trading resumes... and I am still worried 60 minutes won't cut it due to system load.


"The bitcoin will be back to around 17.5$/BTC after we rollback all trades that have happened after the huge Bitcoin sale that happened on June 20th near 3:00am (JST)."  

How would this even be possible if the buy orders have been removed???

All orders are getting wiped, regardless of whether they were previously filled and then rolled back.

The 17.51 value just so happens to be the amount at the time just before the flash crash. Since, in the time between when we can log in and when the market starts, we'll all be able to place orders, the value is kind of meaningless unless it happens that people make their bids and asks around that number.

If, when the market opens, the balance of orders is with offers around 14.50 and bids around 14.50, then 17.51 will be pretty much pointless as a starting price except for those 0.001 seconds between when the market opens and the queue is processed. Okay, I'm just making a logical guess that that is how it will work, especially because we won't have things like Market On Open orders and it's silly to suggest that Mt. Gox do something like NASDAQ's opening cross (http://money.howstuffworks.com/nasdaq-opening-closing-cross.htm).

EDIT: The above was confirmed on IRC (essentially):

<Ooofo> magicaltux, can you enlighten us on how opening orders will be processed? I assume there will be a queue created with orders processed by time of submission and it'll almost instantly go from 17.51 to whatever the price is at which no trades can be matched.
<MagicalTux> Ooofo: yep, queue

Lucky you, if you woke up 10min earlier you could've been Kevin Day :D

That will be the "last price" reported on the system when it comes back up.  It will change as soon as the first new order matches.

Hey, putting my text in giant red letters like a jackass was kinda fun.  I should do it more often.

Good question. I know I saw this officially stated somewhere - I absolutely remember reading it and knowing it was from Adam or Mark aka official - and not just in irc. I'm 90% sure it was on the support page mtgox.com is being redirected to. It's definitely not there now, though, and I confirmed it wasn't something MagicalTux posted here. If it did come from there and now it's gone I'm not sure what to make of it - my first guess would be just another communication failure, but I certainly wouldn't rule out them deleting it because they had a change of heart. It's real hard to understand why they'd do that though, it'd be the final nail in their coffin for sure if they left the old order book up and forced a bunch of trades at the old market level.

Hey Kyle..

Can I assume that you became a "Hero Member" who is "Usually Right"  by mostly making useless posts like this one?

I'm wondering if some day I could become a "Hero Member" by finding random threads to insult people in.. thats an easy way to raise my post count if I don't have anything useful or helpful to add to the thread of the person who may be genuinely looking to get an answer...

For all you know I could have been around here for months before you ever joined... and that I also signed up @ MT.Gox thousands of users accounts before you did.

In the end... you don't know how much I stand to lose here... or possibly how much hinges on the answer to this simple question..

But still... you don't see me running around insinuating that others are "Jack-Asses" for asking legitimate questions, just to raise my post count...

Did I write my first post in big red letters Kyle?  Is it something I normally do when I chose to make a post... or only when I'm quickly dismissed as some newbie user that showed up here a few weeks ago that is asking stupid questions...

I appreciate your help in this matter.. next beer down at Diggers is on me.

The Jackass,

RchGrav

Grow some thicker skin.  I answered your question, and I only insulted you personally.  You, on the other hand insulted the entire community (very slightly) by disregarding forum etiquette.

Good luck with your post count and your mtgox account.

I'm basically like you. I know I have read it somewhere, but I can't remember any further detail.

Hey Kyle.. I sent you the bitcoins to buy the beer at Diggers..  I may be a jackass... but I'm a man of my word!


And actually no.. you told me something I already knew...  Honestly.. since I am unable to find the source of the fact I am asking for.. I'm just taking it as "read" at this point.

I have NOT insulted this community.. as it is one I believe in.. 

I also have a really bad habit of doing too much lurking and not enough posting.. in any forum I belong to.

I'm usually the guy who has been around a long time.. with only a couple of posts.

Cool thanks, Richard.  I don't get over that way very often, but I'll be sure to grab a beer the next time I do.

I asked this question in another thread (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=21545.msg270750#msg270750). Unfortunately I received two contradicting responses that referenced the same source! The source was the The Bitcoin Show interview with Mt Gox (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0XvP841jaM&feature=channel_video_title). Skip to minute 38:00 where Mt Gox is asked if the order book would be cleared out. I've listened a few times, but Mark's accent is difficult for me to process. It sounds like he says:

• Yes, your orders will still be there (if they are close(?) to Bitcoin -- not sure what that means), and
• you will have an option to clear your orders when your account reclamation is approved

Edit: Here's my attempt at transcribing the dialogue:

OOTV: When you reopen, will the order book be empty? Will all the orders be cancelled?
Adam (repeating the question for Mark): If you had an open order before the attack will you still have an open order?
Mark: Yeah, if you had an open order you will still have an open order if its still close enough to Bitcoin. Unless when you claim you will have an option to cancel all the open orders, too.

It sounds like Mark is saying that limit orders close to the last price of Bitcoin (17.51) will be restored -- which would explain how the price would be restored. But how close is close? Is my $12 buy order close enough?

I heard you will be able to login an hour before trading begins, to place and/or remove orders on the books.

I'm the guy who (coming soon - check back later for updates - your ad here)

How does that actually work? Is the first ASK matched against the first BID in a FIFO queue, or averaged and settled, or what's the algorithm for an enormous queue batch process? Is 'fair' an NP-complete problem?

See.. this is the EXACT reason I keep asking this question... I have a standing order to buy BTC @ $15 each.. and that order would essentially wipe out all of my buying power... and quite honestly would be a TERRIBLE TRADING DECISION.

That order does not represent my intentions at this point.. and was placed based upon market conditions PRIOR to the attack on the system...

I just don't see how 60 minutes is enough time for users of their system to log on and adjust their standing orders.. prior to when trading resumes...

The account claim page couldn't even stay up long enough with the load of people attempting to reclaim their accounts... and crashed shortly there after.

I'm just glad the decision has already been made.

Keep thinking this thread will change anything, though. It's been amusing to read. I can't wait for the whole Mt. Gox opening to be over, so you people can go back to the usual 'important' tasks at hand, such as proclaiming how many BTC you've "lost".

Honestly, the whole forum has been a dog's breakfast ever since the hysteria took over.

And what is that decision?


I think that this community thinks that their standing orders have been removed...

Don't you think that this will become an even larger fiasco? 

Personally.. I think the right thing to do would be to remove ALL OPEN ORDERS until users have a chance to re-evaluate their accounts and positions...

I have not been able to get official confirmation that this is the case.... only a bunch of people who "THINK" that it is the case.

I'm sure anyone who actually takes real losses over trades they couldn't clear due to timing of opening, server overload, etc, will be much more likely to find somewhere else to do business in the future. Hopefully they just scream "Fuck Mt.Gox!!" and go to an alternate, instead of screaming "Fuck Bitcoins!!" and selling them all. :P

All relevant information can be found here:

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback

I don't see any mention where forum threads are being considered as an influence for future plans, so I'd say the decisions are already made.

Hence the irrelevance of this thread.

I don't think the OP is trying to influence anyone.  He's just trying to get a concrete answer, and there doesn't seem to be one.

Wow... your opinion is poisonous to everyone.

If MT.GOX wants to have orders standing when they resume trading they should allow sufficient time for people to get into their accounts and do so.. not rely upon trades placed prior to this breach...

HOWEVER... I NEED TO CLEARLY AND PUBLICLY DOCUMENT THIS...

The standing order on my account does not represent my current trading intentions.  


Please believe me when I say that I wish EVERY ONE OF YOU the best.. and would like nothing more to see all of the bitcoin naysayers have to eat their words, especially that bald bugeyed youtube idiot.  I truly hope my concerns and unfounded and unjustified..  I will happily go back to lurking.  I don't want anything I say to be taken the wrong way.. or cause any more hysteria or animosity.  I'll just sit back.. watch my standing order execute removing all of my USD and ability to make other trades that day. take my losses.. and move on.

I hope I am wrong...

Rich

+1

RchGrav:

you said your order is for $15?  Trade Hill is at $16.75 right now, so it may not be a bad order.  ;)

As of this posting, there are six instances of "order" on the page you linked. Here is the first one from Mark:

Unfortunately, this does not answer the question, "Will limit orders that existed before the massive sell-off be restored or cancelled?"

The other 5 instances of the word "order" come in the comments section from users who seem to be just as unclear about the answer to the question. TraderTimm, thanks for providing the link, but I don't see any information on that page that clearly spells out what will happen to the order book when Mt Gox re-opens before trading resumes.

At best, I can infer that the order book will be restored by this statement:
In order for the bitcoin to return the exchanged rate of ~17.5, he would have to restore the bid and ask orders (or at least the ones near that price). At least, that's my interpretation.

You seem really confident that a decision has been made and clearly communicated. I wish I was as confident!

As of this post, Tradehill is at 16.80 last, which validates another theory I had. Wouldn't it be interesting if it achieved parity with the last Mt.Gox rollback price?

Anyway, the way I see it is this - rollback means blow out every bid and offer after a certain timestamp. The last traded price is 17.50 in this case.

The order queue will be filled once the exchange opens an hour prior to trading, with timestamps on bid/offers providing tie-breakers in case there are other orders at the same price.

So, what this means is - any suggestion to open at a different price is invalid. It will be 17.50.

Any future 'tick' will be determined by the order book at that time, not by anything in this thread.

Therefore, this thread has zero effect on any part of the re-opening process.

I rest my case.

Yeah.. I looked at that.. Maybe it is.. maybe it isn't.

There are a lot of bitcoins locked up at MT.Gox waiting to be traded.. some percentage of those people are exiting our market...

If my buy order @ $15 executes it will only serve to line the pockets of those people who are choosing to bail out of our community by unloading their bitcoins at top dollar... in turn hurting those people who believe in bitcoin by taking their purchasing power away..

I will do my best to fix my orders in the 60 minutes allowed... of course if I am unable to do so for whatever reason, and if it hasn't been canceled as some are assuming theirs has, my order will be executed against my wishes and quite possibly damage my total account value by the end of the day.. but my fears are further reaching than my own pocket.

At this point I think that we all need to assume that the open orders that were in place before the shutdown will be present and executed in turn if there is a a large number of bitcoins sold by people who have become disillusioned and are deciding to bail out....

Those of you with common sense will see how this could be damaging to many people... and cause even more disillusioned traders... causing additional exits from the market.

You will all need to plan and react accordingly until the truth on this matter is eventually revealed.

This became way more of a discussion than I wanted... I only really wanted a straight answer.. and for others to be aware.

I feel worse now than before I posted. lol.. 

Peace,

Rich

I only want the opportunity to adjust my standing orders... you sir.. read this thread and interpreted it in ways I still can't even understand.

My open buy order @ $15 is stale... I want to evaluate the market and adjust my bid.. thats it.. so simple..

If I don't have the opportunity to do so.. I wish it to be cancelled until I can.  Thats it.

What about orders that were in place before that certain timestamp? That's the whole point of this thread.

Yes. The order book will fill up during the hour before trading resumes, but will the order book be empty at 03:00 GMT?

OK, sure. Influencing Mt Gox is not the point of this thread.  ::)