Bitcoin Forum

So it occurred to me that TBC doesn't have a forum thread here yet...

I created this altcoin in January 2011 immediately after discovering Bitcoin.
While many altcoins have been created since, none come close to TBC's ideal design:

• Shares the same blockchain as BTC, so benefits from the full security and difficulty backing the Bitcoin blockchain.
• Mined together with BTC - unlike ordinary merged mining, you don't get BTC plus TBC, just one or the other at your choice.
• Completely compatible with all Bitcoin addresses: if you send BTC to a TBC client's address, it will automatically get converted and vice-versa.

The main, and only unique, feature of TBC is being based on the innovative Tonal number system (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover).
What Bitcoin aims to do for currency, Tonal aims to do for numbers in general.

Instead of counting: one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, etc...
In tonal, you would count: an, de, ti, go, su, by, ra, me, ni, ko, hu, vy, la, po, fy, ton, ton-an, etc...

That is, it is a radix 8 × 2 system, similar to hexadecimal.
Because humans naturally perform binary operations (try cutting your next pizza into 5 or 10 slices!), once you get past the learning curve, this power-of-two radix is easier and more powerful to work with.
Why not just use hexadecimal?

• Ambiguity: "I have a fish!" - is that 1 or 8 × 2?
• Tonal is actually older! Hexadecimal was invented in 1954, while Tonal goes back to 1862.
• Hexadecimal is only used or specified for integers, whereas Tonal already defines all sorts of everyday units including lengths (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q&f=false), time (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA32#v=onepage&q&f=false), capacity, weight (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA37#v=onepage&q&f=false), power, gold/silver coinage (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA38#v=onepage&q&f=false), calendar (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false), temperature (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA44#v=onepage&q&f=false), and even postage stamps (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA42#v=onepage&q&f=false) and music (http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA45#v=onepage&q&f=false)!
• Tonal also has defined pronunciations for large numbers, while hexadecimal must be read digit-by-digit.

1 TBC is defined as 1,0000 (tonal) satoshis - that is, 0.00065536 BTC.
This amount was chosen for a number of reasons, including being nicely at four-tonal-places precision (standard for tonal) and balanced with the total number of Bitcoins if it were to achieve worldwide adoption (that is, there would be enough TBCs that everyone could reasonably have some).

Other handy units and their equivalents:

Abbreviation	Pronunciation	TBC	BTC
	tam-bitcoin	1 0000 0000	2 814 749.767 106 56
ᵇTBC	bong-bitcoin	1 0000	42.949 672 96
ᵐTBC	mill-bitcoin	1000	2.684 354 56
ˢTBC	san-bitcoin	100	0.167 772 16
ᵗTBC	ton-bitcoin	10	0.010 485 76
TBC	bitcoin	1	0.000 655 36
TBCᵗ	bitcoin-ton	0.1	0.000 040 96
TBCˢ	bitcoin-san	0.01	0.000 002 56
TBCᵐ	bitcoin-mill	0.001	0.000 000 16
TBCᵇ	bitcoin-bong	0.0001	0.000 000 01

Sha256?

my favorite alt-coin!

Yes, it's extra-merged mined.
Don't even need to do anything special, just have your bitcoin mining pay to an address of a TBC wallet.

So this is not really an altcoin but just an alternative client for mining exactly the same, with the only difference a different base-system for numbering the amount of coins... The only thing different is the display in the client then, right?

So I wasted my time studying "atonal" music at uni then?

:D

It really is an altcoin, though your understanding of the nature of it is correct.
One does not need to do things the wrong way (making a separate blockchain for no reason) to make an altcoin.

So why would miners adopt tbc if it really has no benefit or innovation over btc?

Unless they for some reason think tonal numbers are superior to decimal numbers?(and have some odd hatred for the more conventional hexadecimal system) they wouldn't.

They don't have to. TBC uses the same blockchain as BTC, so both benefit from the same mining work.
That is, TBC miners benefit BTC, and BTC miners benefit TBC.

It does, as explained in the OP.

From my understanding, there is no benefit aside from saying a = b so mine a or b and its the same thing. So again, why mine tbc if it's the same as btc? If I'm mining btc already, what tangible benefit is there to switching to tbc or vice versa?

Cryptocurrencies don't exist for miners. Miners exist for cryptocurrencies.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say nobody will just switch from BTC to TBC.
Rather, the switch would be entirely from decimal/metric to tonal (when interacting with others also making the switch).
Then you get the benefits of tonal being easier to work with universally.

QFT

From what I can understand (and am likely totally wrong about) this isn't so much an alt coin as it is an alternative parallel transaction system based on the factors as BitCoin. Still not 100% on WHY but.. well, it's not another fly by night altcoin so I love it instantly.

This is merged mining? Like NMC?

With NMC merged mining, you get BTC and NMC, while helping both with identical work.
With TBC extra-merged mining, you get BTC or TBC, while helping both with identical work.

This isn't an altcoin. It's just a different display metric for bitcoin.

Could you explain for a dummy what benefit to someone already using BTC using TBC would give?

TL;DR: You can divide amounts into fractions much easier with a base 16 system. But base 12 works just as well. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6xJfP7-HCc)

-

Honestly, people. Is it that hard to read the damn OP or google Tonal System (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tonal+system) if you don't understand it?

OP is right, it is an AltCoin.

But the posters saying it's not an "altcoin" but rather an alternate display system for the client (using base 16) are also right.

The benefits of this are somewhat negligible, unless you really like base 16. I like it cause it's like an AltBitCoin rather than an AltCoin, or as OP put it, it's an AltCoin that uses "extra-merged" mining.

Though I would prefer hexadecimal any day. It's MUCH easier to get used to  "012345689ABCDEF" rather than some kooky "An,  de,  ti,  go,  su,  by,  ra,  me,  ni,  ko,  hu,  vy,  la,  po,  fy,  ton."

And they are the exact same numbering system, both are base 16 systems. They just use different sounds for the numbers.

Having said that, a base 16 system for this currency would be HUGELY beneficial, given the fractional nature of it.

How can you get used to something which doesn't really exist? "012345689ABCDEF" only covers writing, not speech.
"123456789" (with a tonal-compatible font) is the equivalent in tonal. :)

Are you kidding me?

Ay. Bee. See. Dee. Ee. Ef.

Wun Ef is how you pronounce 16.

Three Ee Eight is how you pronounce 1000.

It's not that hard. And there are less examples of pronouncing a number in hex taking more syllables then there are with decimal numbers.

Sure with hex, it might be hard to say 10,000, but it's easier to say every number between those few numbers ending in multiple zeroes in almost every case.

Sixty five thousand five hundred and thirty six. That's TWELVE syllabes.
Wun Zero Zero Zero Zero. That's TEN syllables.

How do you say two hundred and thirty six thousand nine hundred and thirty five in tonal? It takes SIXTEEN syllables to say that in decimal.

Cause I bet it's going to take at least as many syllables as "Three Nine Dee Eight Ef" (That's five, by the way) which it would take in hex. (It would also take five syllables in tonal, in this case.)

2147483647
Decimal: Two billion, one hundred and forty seven million four hundred and eighty three thousand six hundred and forty seven. (THIRTY SYLLABLES)
Hexadecimal: Seven ef ef ef ef ef ef ef. (NINE SYLLABLES)
Tonal: Ra ton ton ton ton ton ton ton. (EIGHT SYLLABLES)

Is it really worth learning a whole new "number language" for one or two less syllables occasionally?

-

Now, don't get me wrong. I like your AltCoin. And I prefer base 16 (or base 12) over base 10 any day. But I don't see the benefit of tonal over hex, other than being able to call noll an an an an (10000 in tonal, not for you OP, for anybody reading lol) a "bong-bitcoin".

What's the difference between "a" (1) and "ay" (5*2)?

Eh?

How about 0x1000?

"Ti-bong, ni-mill, la-san, me-ton, ra." - 9 syllables

Of course, in both decimal and tonal you could always list the digits too:
"two three six nine three five" - 8 syllables.
"ti ni la me ra" - 5 syllables.

Eh? I don't get what you mean. 1 is pronounced "wun" and 10 (5x2?) is pronounced "ay".


I wasn't bothered to look up IPA, I was merely writing how to pronounce 1F.. Lol.


Wait.. why do you need to actually define numerical constants with 0x when you are SPEAKING, isn't it a given that you are talking about a number when you are actually SPEAKING because of context? I assumed since you were only used a base 16 system for numbers that the 0x would be unnecessary.


I apologize, I must of removed the part that said that was a rhetorical question lol. It also takes five syllables in hex.

It will ALWAYS take the same amount of syllables to list the individuals numbers in hex OR tonal. Unless there is a zero or a seven, then it will take one more syllable for every zero or seven in the number in hex.

So you're proposing removing "a" from the English language?

But 1F is not 16...

I was contrasting it to your "1000" which was presumably decimal.

Oh holy shit. So does your client even change all the letters to tonal? Look, I'm not even going there. I'm not sure of the benefits or disadvantages of replacing LETTERS as well as numbers with tonal. I didn't even know that was possible!

Or if you just mean how does somebody tell if I am spelling a word or saying a number in hex, one word:

Context.

If you mean something else, you're going to have to just say it rather then imply it with a rhetorical question.


Lol. I made a mistake, sorry. 10 is sixteen. Wun Zero. Sorry about that. Still making the same point here, regardless of the mistake lol.


I don't get what you mean. Do you mean 4096 (decimal)? How do you say that in hex? I don't get your question, you obviously know how to say it in hex, you said it. (I have been awake forty hours and it's 8 in the morning. Sorry.)

I suggest rereading my last post after you've had some rest...

Awh, but I got everything except why you were asking me how to say 1000(hex) in hex.

Also, even if a person is not tired, it's easier to understand your point if you actually say it rather then imply it.

This is very cool, I have to get my head around it, but this is exactly the sort of cool innovation and experimentation I think bitcoin is supposed to inspire.

And hey, OP, the only reason I am still talking is because you tried to say there was no way to pronounce hexadecimal numbers lol..

"an, de, ti, go, su, by, ra, me, ni, ko, hu, vy, la, po, fy, ton, ton-an, etc..."

This is way over my head, can we stick to a,e,i,o,u instead?   :D

Indeed. A system that doesn't function as an alternative to bitcoin is not altcoin.

it is like buying a fish in pound or kilogram. BUT the same fish, the same fishing. I don't understand.

This is a crude analogy, but it's about right.

It's like buying 100 fish and calling it sande fish.

As I've said, I love base 12 and base 16 but tonal is funky as fuck.

00:	Noll	16:	Ton	32:	Deton	48:	Titon	64:	Goton
01:	An	17:	Tonan	33:	Detonan	49:	Titonan	65:	Gotonan
02:	De	18:	Tonde	34:	Detonde	50:	Titonde	66:	Gotonde
03:	Ti	19:	Tonti	35:	Detonti	51:	Titonti	67:	Gotonti
04:	Go	20:	Tongo	36:	Detongo	52:	Titongo	68:	Gotongo
05:	Su	21:	Tonsu	37:	Detonsu	53:	Titonsu	69:	Gotonsu
06:	By	22:	Tonby	38:	Detonby	54:	Titonby	70:	Gotonby
07:	Ra	23:	Tonra	39:	Detonra	55:	Titonra	71:	Gotonra
08:	Me	24:	Tonme	40:	Detonme	56:	Titonme	72:	Gotonme
09:	Ni	25:	Tonni	41:	Detonni	57:	Titonni	73:	Gotonni
10:	Ko	26:	Tonko	42:	Detonko	58:	Titonko	74:	Gotonko
11:	Hu	27:	Tonhu	43:	Detonhu	59:	Titonhu	75:	Gotonhu
12:	Vy	28:	Tonvi	44:	Detonvy	60:	Titonvy	76:	Gotonvy
13:	La	29:	Tonla	45:	Detonla	61:	Titonla	77:	Gotonla
14:	Po	30:	Tonpo	46:	Detonpo	62:	Titonpo	78:	Gotonpo
15:	Fy	31:	Tonfy	47:	Detonfy	63:	Titonfy	79:	Gotonfy

...
256: San
257: Sanan
267: Santonan
326: Sangotonby
etc etc etc

Base 16 is a superior system. It's just unlikely it will ever achieve popularity because of exactly what you just said. We're used to something else.

Where's the "client" (or patch) for this?

next-test (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175026.0) will support TBC iff you have a Tonal-compatible font installed.
Here is a Tonal-only TTF that matches the Luxi Mono font (http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/glyphs/fonts/Luxi/LuxiTonal.ttf).

feel free to send 10 TBC (or more) to my BTC address 13YGmE2CCAxWpAhqQSm5NVz9pU7Q4B22jm