Bitcoin Forum

I want to purchase a miner from KnC which is rated at 175gh/s. Thus I feel I can repay you back. It's really as simple as that. My entire net worth is about 11 BTC and I think I need about 24 more to cover the cost for the miner. Once I get it, the first BTC I mine will go to paying you back 24. and how about a few BTC's on top of that? Obviously this would be a generous/helpful loan and for that reason I am looking for someone with a kind trusting character that wants to help a person who is struggling to get momentum in the mining game, is also confident in KnC's ability to live up to the story they are telling. If you don't believe that they will produce what they say they will produce then I suggest you do not induce this stress upon yourself. I'm fairly confident that some day BFL will ship me my 5gh/s miner and that within it's life span it will find a block, thus this is going to be the only insurance I will be able to afford you of your 24 BTC, if KnC ends up not producing anything.

Why don't I just buy it myself, because I'm pretty sure you'll disappear if KnC has woes.

The lending section is pretty much useless right now. The only loan requests are from newbies that generally scams, intended or not, and the actual serious requests are all through websites (eg CoinLenders) or PM.

You're right, that is a very valid point and thus I have added to my original post, but ultimately you cannot blame me or the lending section when people are forced to work with their circumstances that they have no control over, and I am one of them. Like I said, this is going to take someone who wants to help, trusts KnC so that they are not stressing over the loan, and wants to get a small reward for their help. I will be grateful and give the most I can give in return, but obviously I cannot predict just how high the difficulty will be when I receive the miner so like I said, I will throw in a few BTC's on top of the 24. In the best case scenario, I get it before the year ends and the difficulty hasn't gone too high, and I will give my lender a generous amount of BTC after paying back the initial amount.

In either case, the profit (even without CP risk!) is greater if you just buy the unit yourself. The only reason why you'd want to fill this loan is for charity, and that would be a pretty stupid idea because the CP risk of someone registered April this month is way too high..

You're not special. Millions of people are in dire financial situations, and begging for money (because this is not a good loan, this is charity / donating) is best reserved for your friends and family or your government versus internet strangers who quite honestly don't have much faith in humanity anymore after losing a total of ~hundreds of millions of dollars in scam schemes.

I am not blaming you for the situation you are in, only for how you choose to approach it. It would be nice to imagine that someone else will get you out of your situation, but that isn't practical - change has to come from yourself, not begging for money on an internet forum.

Am I really a total stranger/not part of the Bitcoin family? I guess that is so. Thank you.

edit: and by the way, it is a loan, because I intend on paying it back. a charity/donation is not paid back.

another edit to respond to what you added in your edit: I don't need change, I need a loan. I'm not sure why you think I need to change myself. Does my wealth define me or anyone else? because that is the connection you have made and I feel it's ironic for you to bring your radical ideology to this thread where it has no place.

 ::)

"fuck you"

"Don't deposit to this website, it's rigged and the owner is a worthless snob who will get what's coming to him." > sealswithclubs

"Indeed, they are against that which makes Bitcoin great. What a fucking joke." > referring to this forum

"It was mainstream from the start. If anything, you adopting it detracts from mainstream more than it adds. Moron."

"no, dumbass."

"So many words come from the female gender, yet such little meaning, if any at all, in their words."

"0" > after being discouraged when spamming (?) on CoinChat doesn't give you any rewards because the algorithm detects spamming

"wow, you're stupid." > In response to a mostly civil discussion

"you're clearly having this issue on a regular basis. btw, please wear nicer attire at this WSOP. thanks." > to Micon

"I guess I'll just find a way to steal it then." > to sealswithclubs

"Keep talking out of your ass, douche. You won't change my mind and the minds of many who feel it is rigged, now fuck off."

That last line. Also, it is charity because you will not be paying it back. KnC is a scam, you're like the deluded MiningUnited "it's not a ponzi!" people.

You see I am not bothered that you bring these quotes to my thread. I'm not hiding my humanity as you can clearly see. I go through many different trains of thought and I utilize the forum to express those states of mind. If I were not to do that, I would be socially irresponsible.

edit: Do you really feel KnC is a scam? What about TerraHash? I'm torn between the two, sometimes leaning more on KnC, and other times Terra. Sometimes I think they are all ponzi's but I thought I was a minority in this opinion. Clearly not.

"why would the difficulty go to 700 million?"

Are you serious??

The bitcoin network is going to get somewhere around 500 TH/s added this year. TH/s. Even assuming they are not a scam, the only really profitable mining ventures are the mining companies, NOT miners.

.......Awkward

Andy B

How is that possible if all the mining companies are scamming people?  ???

ASICMINER has hundreds of TH/s on order. They don't scam, they ship in like 2 days.

Butterfly labs: I don't think it's a scam, I just think they are horribly incompetent, but they *might* ship something this year.

Avalon: Will ship

All the rest: most likely scams if they claim to be making their own ASIC chips. I've looked in them, and no, only idiots buy into them.

Why would TerraHash/KnC scam? They seem to be producing some compelling evidence that they are not. The vibes I get from KnC is that they want to help the Bitcoin community.

TerraHash released this CAD rendering today:

http://terrahash.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-shot-2013-05-28-at-12.55.55-PM.png

So did bASIC / Tom.

In addition, how many times do I have to state that mining is a highly competitive business. Not a hobby, a business. We're not in the CPU days anymore. Economics of scale, etc. You are wasting your time mining.

Who gets rich.. the gold diggers, or the companies that sold shovels?

Truth is that both got rich and both got poor. Life is like that. Everyone faces ups and downs. Sometimes these rich guys find themselves lonely with no real friends by the time they are 90, and commit suicide. Some life.

I do not want a loan from anyone who does not believe they will get it back some how or another. I want believers on my side.

Do you understand that mining is not something you do as a hobby, but it is an actual business? With employees and datacenters?

Maybe if you're dealing in TH. GH is still doable as a hobby. Don't exaggerate the reality of things.

If you're lucky / on the core dev team / foundation and has early access to ASICs, then sure you might be able to make a profit. But for most, their blissful "I'm going to make ROI on my ASIC preorders" imaginations will be shattered.

See this: http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/

How much depreciation in %/year do you estimate for a miner?

Ok, difficult is at 12,000,000 now (rounding by the million). Let's say KnC keeps their word and I get my miner before the end of the year. Is it reasonable to assume that the difficulty won't be 10x what it is today? I know a lot of TH/s will be added to the network, but if I honestly thought it would be over 10x what it is today, I really wouldn't bother. Even at 120,000,000 I'm able to get my mine ฿22~ in only a month. Let's take a more reasonable estimate that within a year, 120,000,000 is the average difficulty I experience, thus a mere ฿264 of the millions mined that year will be in my wallet. Am I being unreasonable? I think the greatest risk would obviously be KnC, but I'm willing to take that risk and leave as little exposure to risk as I possibly can to the lender. That's the circumstance I'm working with and if it's wrong then I have no more to say to you specifically.

Also remember, as difficulty goes up, so does the scarcity of Bitcoins and thus the price increases, making the few bitcoins I mine per week worth enough to add more GH/s to my hobby, and if I must, I'll partner with someone to take it to the next level (which I don't personally foresee as ever being necessary.) Let's put this into perspective.

Let me show you an example.

When a new technology was introduced (GPU mining), the network difficulty went from 300 (yes, three hundred) to 55,000 in half a year. That is a 183x increase in 6 months. If you look at one year, it's 5851x. Of course, the ASIC situation is somewhat different because of supply issues, but when the supply issues are resolved...

You 60 trillion network difficulty in 1 year using historical increases. The scarcity of bitcoin does not decrease with the network difficulty, there are always 25 BTCs every 10 minutes. The more difficulty there is, the more your mining hardware deprecates. This is important because we are not talking about GPUs or FPGAs with non-Bitcoin markets, ASICs are ASICs and can only be used for Bitcoin mining.

So if that is the case, then I should hold on tightly to the few Bitcoins I have because they are going to be worth millions soon?

so you want to spend 30,000 USD on a ASIC Miner? were you born stupid?

BTCUSD is not directly linked with the network difficulty.

If only the rich tycoons of Bitcoin can afford to mine, then scarcity will most definitely increase as mining is completely out of hobbyist ranges.

Only the rich bankers (Federal Reserve and FRB Banks) can afford to produce new dollars, however we have inflation with USD, not a increase in values.

Difficulty is not directly correlated with the bitcoin price. It is one of the factors that affect it, yes. However, this is elastic. At a certain point, mining would be pushed out from the hobbyists when it no longer becomes profitable unless you invest great sums, and then we are going to have 25/12.5/etc BTC every 10 minutes, some sold on the market.

I wouldn't say this is a good comparison as there are a finite number of Bitcoins that will ever be produced, as we have all known for a very long time.


In this case, we may see it lose value because there would be little point to use Bitcoin over government money. In the end, it will be an elite group who have it all. Am I correct?

You are living under the assumption that Bitcoin will become more scarce when the network difficulty increases. That is false. We will always have 25 BTC every 10 minutes, and then 12.5 BTC.. It doesn't matter if there are 10000 GH/s or 120 hashes per second, what matters is the amount of people who are interested in Bitcoin.

1 TH/s, 10k bitcoin users has the same demand as 1 GH/s, 10k bitcoin users. YOU may earn less bitcoins, but someone else is eating in 'your share'. Generally same amount of BTCs would be dumped on the market or not purchased.

Yes, I understand that.

edit: Did you see my question in post #27? Again, this will end up useless to anyone except for an elite % in Bitcoin world. The rest will take nothing from this payment system, because it ends up being as corrupt and pointless as any other, including the fiat system. Void of helping the small guy, I wager that Bitcoin is nothing, and is altogether about as useful as a scam.

I need a acceptable Property as security for your loan.

I don't have anything.

Then no loan.  Sorry.

Then what's the point of a loan if you give to someone who has something already?

Hmm... Maybe something to ask a bank?

Oh that's right, you're broke therefore you cannot lend anything and thus you have no ability to answer!