Bitcoin Forum

http://www.davidnews.com/2013/05/liberty-reserve-laundered-6-billion.html

Listen from around the 27:30 minute on.

Some VERY notable extracts:



This is pretty damn good news guys...

Big Wow

http://techpinions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/wow-copy.jpg

Yeah, but I think to them virtual currency means AmazonCoin and Terrance and Phillips MintChip not Bitcoin. They are looking for money laundering. Don't you suppose they are at least a little concerned with tumblers and that Bitcoin is the payment system of choice for SR.  Don't be naïve.

I think this is definitely a good sign.

No, they are not talking about AmazonCoin and the like following regulations. They are talking about the read deal and this is a great sign. He even mentioned the FinCen guidance.

Now, this doesn't mean pressure won't come later from the banks or the government (from behind the scenes) but as a short to mid term statement, it is HUGE.

Basically, "We won't F' with you if you follow regulations".

This is a huge confidence builder for holders and potential holders. The VC money is moving in and they are all about doing things on the up and up.

I don't trust them.

They speak with forked tongue.

I'd like you to be right but I see SR as either one of two things, they have to eventually find a way to shut it down or they own it as a honeypot.

Agreed. Pretty big green light for bigger money

This is a good sign!

There is much uncertainty here. No one can argue that. We can fear what is coming and that just gives them power. Or, you can go with what you believe in and give it you best - 111%

We are so close to the 100th monkey I can taste it. (But maybe I just have a really good sense of taste.  ;))

Understand one simple thing - Technology is moving forward VERY VERY FAST. Much much faster than governments can react. They are trapped inside slow to adjust systems. It won't be them that comes after us, it will be corporations, banks and the like. The Former is sort of on our side. It is where the banks come in that we have a bit to worry about. But, Banks are NOT Anti-Fragile (see my sig). They are prone to breaking and collapsing - they always do. Things can change quicker than you believe - it is often how it ends up happening. They don't lose control of the "system" - they lose control of the "information". We start, and we are starting, to see reality more for what it is. Seeing these banks struggle, seeing the line between nation states and corporations get fuzzy, etc - it is becoming easier and more obvious. Change is imminent.

That is pretty clear cut. Fincen issued guidance because of Bitcoin..... Virtual currencies are here to stay, they are not anonymous. The gov't may actually like that. Also I can imagine the silkroad end of things may eventually, or already has more or less a green light.

I do not take these guys as a Sherrif Rosco from Dukes of Hazard. These guys are not idiots. Nor do they want more war. But they do want you to know they will go after the worst of perpetrators for sick stuff, and situations and people that do really need to be put at bay. I dont really care about laws, and authority following the laws, as long as there becomes some sort moral compass to their actions. <-- that is kinda what we are seeing minus the rogue cops.

I do think every virutal crypto currency will see a boost in prices based on this. Big money may move it.

You've cherry picked. This is an ex-script from the same video...

...27:06 "[...] was used because of the anonymity it offers. Liberty Reserve thus threatens the financial system by facilitating anonymous transactions among cyber criminals ultimately involving more traditional financial institutions where so called Liberty Reserve dollars are converted into US Dollars. Liberty Reserve also threatens the US financial system by providing financial services to the developers and purchasers of financial malware [...]"

Replace "Liberty Reserve dollars" with "Bitcoins" and "traditional financial institutions" with "exchanges (Mt Gox et al)" and suddenly, the pictures not quite so rosy.  

Your experience may differ, but subjectively no where in that video does it hint at endorsement of Bitcoin. And if you were to take Liberty Reserve as the model and apply it to the current BTC world, most of the current Bitcoin businesses fall afoul of US (read: Western global) anti money laundering regulations.

How about they take the siezed funds, and use it to buy bitcoins, and we start a bitcoin based govt with that. Now we can see how it gets spent and we know who has the private keys!! Baseball bats to their knees if they dare attempt to start more war!!

Governments have always worked well with new technology. In fact, most of the time they help fund its research and development. You don't believe Satoshi actually invented cryptography do you? The government will surly "play ball" with anyone that plays by its rules. My concern is that it's difficult for Bitcoin, by its very design, to play by the rules. So far big bro has decided to rule on those things it currently knows how to control (kyc, aml). I'm just waiting for round two to get excited.

Two points:

1.  Seem odd to suddenly be offering blind trust to a government after years of building an ideology on the basis the same government is untrustworthy.   ???   I guess they are ok when they say what you want?  Not so good when they don't?  

2.  ...27:06 "[...] [Bitcoin]was used because of the anonymity it offers. Liberty Reserve [Bitcoin]thus threatens the financial system by facilitating anonymous transactions among cyber criminals ultimately involving more traditional financial institutions where so called Liberty Reserve dollars [Bitcoins] are converted into US Dollars. Liberty Reserve [Bitcoin] also threatens the US financial system by providing financial services to the developers and purchasers of financial malware [...]"

Not hard to swap the names and drop the hammer.  If anything, it's another telegraphed warning at Bitcoin.  Didn't see this part initially when the news broke.  Very telling IMO.  

FUD?  Maybe.

Read more carefully, this alone has made me automatically raise my middle finger, I shouldn't have to explain to people why.

The March 2013 Fincen guidance was mostly about Bitcoin, so he's implicitly speaking about BTC and not Amazoncoin.

The regulatory pressure is now on BTC exchanges, and this is a clear message. Comply, come to daddy, we are friendly... Until we are not.

 ;D  ;D  

Come on man, don't be like that...it's about sharing.   ;)

When people don't want to use my money to blow giant craters in other peoples' countries for shits and giggles let me know and then I'll share :P

You don't "telegraph warnings" to a p2p protocol.

But there is a clear message to exchanges - they want their voice to be heard.

Everything else in your post is FUD of the dullest kind.

Bait & switch (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch). Also, misdirection (http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Feint).

So you basically mean never.  Honestly, sounds like a really poor excuse to just be selfish.  Fine by me, but why not just own that without the excuses?   ???

...and what are those regulatory requirements?


So hey, as long as all the miners register as money transmitters, they have nothing to fear!

This is where BitShares will entirely demolish their plans.

1) no more exchanges
2) mining is far more decentralized.
3) all assets that are traded are 'final' sales, no IOU, no deposits.  Equivalent to barter.
4) no currency exchange risk.

Combine the properties and the only thing they could do is outlaw the direct acceptance of Bitcoin or BitShares for goods as being 'money transmittal'.    If we get them 'on the record' saying that using crypto-currencies for buying and selling goods is acceptable and legal, then they are stuck!

....until they pass a new law saying its illegal. lol

If you think that taxes have anything to do with with being generous you're incredibly naive.

Oh spare me the libertarian bible thumping.   ::)

yay! great news! as long as bitcoin fully complies with any and all laws they feel like making up , taxes anyone? how about a nice 25% US National tax on each bitcoin transaction? yay! go government regulations!!
no worries mate! we just have to register all of our wallet addresses with the IRS and they will grant us permission from   Palpatine, Dark Lord of the Sith and Emperor of the Galactic Empire to continue using bitcoin


oh joyous news everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111

"I, (insert practically any American politician's name here) fully support the 2nd Amendment."
/violates civil rights with impunity

Bitcoins are not created by miners. It is a lottery system. The winner gets bitcoins as a reward for solving the math problem. Am I wrong? Legally speaking, I mean.

Legally speaking, words mean nothing or anything depending on how you look at it.

Speaking of which...

"Each one must give as he has decided in his heart,
not reluctantly or under compulsion,
for God loves a cheerful giver."
2 Corinthians 9:7

"Do not pervert justice;
do not show partiality to the poor
or favoritism to the strong,
but judge your neighbor fairly."
Leviticus 19:15

"You shall not go after the majority to do evil.
Neither shall you testify in a matter in court
to incline after the majority to pervert justice."
Exodus 23:2

Read http://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2013/papers/4977a080.pdf -- if they wanted to shutdown SR they could tomorrow using vulns in Tor.

Well said. It is being spelled out for us and even then, FUD'ers want to spin it negatively. "Maybe it was Amazon Coin or the like". (Not to pick on that one example). CoinFuder is the king of this. He wants to make money with BitCoin and cares less about the bigger implications. You reap what you sow... Blind trust? If they lie they lie, but we have to go forward. Don't live in fear people, that gives up your power.

We got a break guys, they want us to follow CURRENT regulations. This doesn't mean we are kissing AZZ. Anything new that comes up will have to be met from a position of power, which we are in.

and Fobot...

The regulatory requirements have BASICALLY been set by FinCen. No, they are not clear but it gives us something to work with. Current regulations, not future. Again, we are in a position of power. Don't give in to fear.

I don't think the miner thing is clear. That sure is bothersome. But we got to move forward. See good news as good news and don't lump it all as bad. That is unfair.

i am not giving to fear, i am in this , i just think there is a good chance one(some) of us will end up in jail or with $250,000 fine after being found guilty of something, like Jammie Thomas-Rasset (see link below)
jury's in the US do as they are told, they are made up of sheep and the government has trained US Citizens to believe they must convict people of whatever prosecutors put before them

it comes down to the almighty dollar, if the mega corporations think they will lose profits from this cryptocurrency, they will use their control of the governments to try and stop it

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/18/minnesota.music.download.fine/

great news for bitcoin. they know going after bitcoin is a wast of time so they are just going to control money going in and out of it. this will be regulated like cash. Bitcoin is being excepted

Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?” 15 But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, “Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius[d] and let me look at it.” 16 And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar's.” 17 Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” -Mark 15-17


"Sell your possessions and give to those in need. This will store up treasure for you in heaven! And the purses of heaven never get old or develop holes. Your treasure will be safe; no thief can steal it and no moth can destroy it. -Luke 12:33


But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. -Matt 4:17

In the future...pick a covenant and stick with it.  You're quoting from two different covenants as if they are one and the same.  You are either under the law or under Grace, but not both.  

Yeah, spin that SUBMISSION.   ;D  Glad to see you guys coming around to support and compliance of the law.  There's hope yet.  ;)

If Robert S. Mueller, Director of the FBI, and Secretary Janet Napolitano of Homeland Security made a statement claiming that they had no problem with Bitcoin specifically as a system then you could be excited. The term "Virtual Currency" is too generic. Having some little fudwinkle under secretary nobody claiming that they have no problem with a generic concept and supporting advances in consumer technology doesn't say much about the way the US government is really going to react.

Alcohol was illegal in the U.S., then it was illegal, then the people went apeshit and it became legal again. The way to get support for anything in the U.S. is to get overwhelming support of the people. It can be really difficult to do like the civil rights struggle or gay marriage but it can be done. The last thing you want to focus on is what some two faced double speak politician says about anything because his opinion and actions will spin around like a leaf in a river.

I don`t see any good new for Bitcoin  ???
Only for the funny money printed by the Feds or Virtual Currencies backed by the FED >:(

Lol as long as you have to pay your debts and taxes in dollars it doesn't mean jackshit to them if you use buttcoins

Just as long as you pay taxes and debts.. if you don't.. you go jail :D :D

Come on. This is not a court of law, it was a press conference.
BTC is THE virtual currency. It is clear to anyone these days. Let's call a spade a spade here.

The ECB published this: http://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf
It is a paper on Virtual Currencies that is 53 pages long. BTC is mentioned 185 times. Can we accept the The European Central Bank and the American FED are kind of seeing eye to eye? I mean is it fair to think they are mostly talking about Bitcoin? Or maybe they are talking about Amazon Coins?  ;D   Maybe an alternative Cryptocurrency? Litecoin, PPCoin, ????

Interesting anecdotal story: I met with an employer today regarding some work in a bank (she is not in that industry) and we got to talking about banking as I had some stock market trading experience on my resume. She goes on to ask me if I am still in the stock market. I said, "No, not really but I am am very interested in crypto currencies". I didn't want to say Bitcoin! eheheh. I wanted to see her reaction to that word. She is clearly not wise in the world of finance or internet. Anyway, she says "Oh, like Bitcoin?" and I just started laughing. Also was funny in that the moment I got a call from her last week or so, I was on my Computer and mentioned to her the Japanese Nikkei is down 7%. Well, meeting her today, when we got to talking about banking, I noted to her that it was down again by 5%". During my interview I spoke half about Bitcoin - because she was interested. She ended up maybe wanting to buy some. I have talked about Bitcoin to a few customers and one has already bought and a few others are thinking about it. Spread the word...

I then showed her what I carry around in my wallet, which I will be sure to use at the bank I will be doing some PT work at. It will make for great conversation, I promise - Get yourself one (They are also great gifts given along side a BTC paper wallet):

http://www.creditwritedowns.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/Zimbabwe-100-trillion.jpg

That's exactly who you want to be interested in it and who you can trust to be honest about their belief. You want the average citizen not the government workers that lie to the citizenry daily to serve their needs.

Gotta love "It's about sharing". I'm feeling you, bro!  ;)

And I gotta say that I had pretty much the same experiences you are describing with many of my acquaintances. Give them some time, and you will see how they start flooding you with money to buy them BTC. I bet your lady friend it's going good to be the first one. 

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

- Mathew 5:17