Bitcoin Forum

Every now and then i read about issues with ebay with sold ASIC miners on ebay.
There are a few questions for that in my mind:
- are these problems only for commercial sales (when you do mining as a business?)
- are these problems also appearing if you add a disclaimer that you do not provide warranty as a private seller ?

What has really happened to you or someone you know on ebay ?

Interested to know as well.  ???

It's ebay. They can file a claim and send you a rock back. You have no recourse.

Wow, can they really do that ? I mean if i have a witness which witnesses that they send me a rock back, how will ebay get to the cash ?
They have me in their filthy hands with Paypal and i read some bad stuff that happened to small companies with PayPal.
But idk, i can even click that the article cannot be given back. So what does the seller wanna say ?
"Meh its too loud, here have it back, i ignore dem conditions ?"
Might accepting pickup and cash only be an option ?

I've been selling miners (well gpu's) on eBay for a few of months and so far I've had zero issues 

You can use the hardware for 6months and then file a claim that its broken or not what what described.  Ebay is all about the buyer and not the sellers, but if you protect yourself and have the buyers responds that they are satisfied with the purchase then you have some leverage if they file a claim.

Thanks for that info. With GPUs you have a kinda higher shelf-life than these ASICs so it will prob not be worth so much to file a claim there.
If you get your asic- miner back from a customer after a month, that ***** might have mined well over 1k with it and the value has decreased for 700$

There are a lot of carder who use ebay. They stole people's credit card to buy things in ebay. I think ebay it's not the only place to sell online. I would prefer a local online shop to sell my things. It's better to meet in person, so that we cannot be fooled. There are a lot of online shop out there, not just ebay.

Ebay is a pain in the rear, have definitely had someone buy equipment then try to return it for a full refund after more than 90 days of use, paypal sided with the buyer.  Also paypal sets arbitrary limits on sellers and then paypal holds your money once you cross the monthly threshold for 21-90 days.    

I had paid to air freight some equipment in during the shortage and now that the prices have normalized they want a full refund not an exchange and they claimed item not as described.

You can google it and see the horror stories of sellers on Ebay.  Ebay will ALWAYS side with the buyer.  No matter what.  If you think about it, they have to.  There are new sellers every day, but no one would buy anything off Ebay if they read as a buyer you got scammed. 

What this does is open sellers up to being scammed.  As someone posted, I could buy a miner, say its "not as described", YOU will have to pay the return shipping, and when I send you a rock, I'll still get my money back.  I've read where someone opened the box in front of a Police Officer who said the contents were not correct and Ebay doesn't care.  They are not there when an item was shipped or opened so they AUTOMATICALLY side with the buyer and refund the money. 

I could buy broken cards, then buy your good 1080ti and send you back a broken card.  You can cry all you want that it wasn't what you sent, the serial number is different, ect... but I'll still keep the card and get my money back.

I sell on ebay a lot and will only sell items that if I lost, I wouldn't care. 

I would suggest you do the same.

Ebay is a great place to buy, but selling be careful. 

Is it a similar story with paypal ouside of ebay ?
If there is no payment-contract, on which basis can they freeze or invalidate the transaction after it happened ?
Am i screwed if someone payed a miner with a hacked account ?
I get several offers for Paypal so i am wondering if i can accept it.

The current day eBay is a scammers paradise. Your track record doesn't matter one bit and a no returns policy doesn't exist on eBay. All it takes is for a scumbag to register a new account and buy what ever they want. He then has a full 30 days to open a SNAD claim for what ever reason they can imagine. Unless you can drag them to say something in the dispute communication that proves they're lying or that violates eBay policy, eBay WILL allow them to return the item AND you pay for the shipping both ways. If you approve the return, once the item is scanned as delivered you have 6 days to refund the buyer or eBay will automatically do it for you. If you refuse the return, eBay will send the buyer a label and charge your account for it. Once the eBay is scanned delivered, eBay will refund the buyer automatically from your PayPal account and you lose the eBay FVF, PayPal fees and get a defect on your account.

If the buyer scams you and what he sends back is different or in a different condition than it was sent, you can open an appeal and eBay will refund your money once you send them an affidavit, as long as you're not a commercial seller.

WOW  :o 
Thank you all for these infos. I am now sure that i am gonna stay away from ebay despite the markups some ppl get there.
It's just too risky that i get screwed and end up with a rock  ;D

There are items you can sell on eBay safely.

Like cars, antiques, collectibles, etc.

However not a good idea with high fraud items such as Cell phone, GPUs, ASICs, etc.

I've sold 1 gpu brand new in box on ebay.....and 60 days later they returned it....that's why bitcoin+escrow is miles better than ebay+paypal.  I will take a loss in btc here before I sell for a profit on ebay. 

amen

Ebay is perfectly safe to use for selling miners.  You can always set your preferences for buyers to "no zero feedback" and "no negative feedback" buyers. 

FUD. Been using Ebay since 2005. Every dispute that's ever came up in those years, Ebay has sided with Seller. Ebay is extremely seller-focused, you're thinking Amazon.

I'm not so sure about that last part.  Its not always about ebay, I think if I get an item that is "not as described" and I can prove with tracking I sent it back, paypal WILL give me my money back.  It has to work that way.  If I get cheated by a seller I'll never buy from ebay again.  They can do without sellers, not buyers.  It doesn't cost anything to list something.  They only time they make money is when an item sells.  I've gotten scammed over and over from China.  Its about 50/50 chance of me receiving an item from those guys.  Other than tying up my money for a month, I've never had a concern because I've always been 100% positive I'll get my money back if I don't receive the item.

Are you maybe suggesting that I would get my money back and the seller would also as a courtesy from ebay???

Its actually worse out of ebay.  This is the reason on exchanges like coinbase you can cash out in paypal but cannot purchase coins from paypal.  I could purchase coins through an exchange and go to paypal and reverse the transaction. 

I would never take a payment from paypal for any coin or equipment privately unless I knew the person. 

This is another scam on ebay, people sell bitcoin (really marked up) on ebay.  People buy them then dispute saying you never sent the coin.  How can you really prove they got it if there is no name attached to the address?  All you really have is a list of numbers and letters.  They will get your bitcoin and get a refund.

Guys, there are a lot of good people out there that use ebay and paypal.  But there are a lot of people that know the ropes and know they can cheat you in certain ways.  You just need to be careful with ebay and paypal.

What ever you do, do not sell on Ebay! Unless you like to gamble. No matter how good the buyer account might seems like, there are dick peoples out there.

From my own personal experience:

Sold an Antminer S4 with built in PSU awhile back ago and made sure the buyer had everything in place to be valid, like no negative feedback, PayPal verified, and etc.

Buyer had over 100+ feedback with 100% feedback rating and paypal verified. After it delivered, buyer filed a claim that item is defective and doesn't work (which I know is bull crap because I fully tested it before shipping it out and had been running 24/7). I tried fighting it with eBay but due to their eBay money back guarantee policy, buyer wins 99.99% of the time. So the buyer got issued a return label and got their money back.

Once the item got returned, I did a test on it and it wouldn't boot up. So I trouble shoot it and found out the PSU needed to be replaced, so I replaced it, once done, it booted up. Then I logged into the Antminer S4 and noticed that it had the buyer's settings and pools on there.

So basically, the buyer's own Antminer S4 broke down, then he bought a working one on Ebay, and kept mine, and shipped the broken one back to me. And ebay favors buyer due to their eBay money back guarantee policy.

No matter what I told ebay on how I said the serial numbers were different, the settings were different, and etc. EBay just told me that I could of just switch it out too and cant be used in the case and will be a he say/she say kind of thing.

Ever since then, I never sold anything on eBay anymore due to how the eBay money back guarantee policy works.

That's correct. If the buyer scams you by returning a different item, or a damaged item that is returned diffrent from the way it was shipped and you win the appeal, eBay will refund the buyer and release the funds on hold back to you. The buyer will also have a faulty return logged against their account. If they get more, they will eventually get banned. The problem is everyone on eBay gets a free pass and it's too easy to file a fraudlent return under a false pretense. It's simply a matter of opening a claim and typing a sentence in a box. eBay does not require the buyer to cooperate with communicating or to prove anything, except they sent the item back once eBay said they could.

That was the reason why eBay sided with you. If the buyer had opened the claim on the 29th day at 23:59, eBay would have forced you to accept the return, unless you drag the buyer to say something to prove they are lying. Once a buyer opens a claim though eBay, they can no longer open a claim through PayPal. Pictures and documentation will only help you win an appeal AFTER the fact, unless the buyer is claming a defect that is shown in one of the listing pictures and stated in the description.

I will add my 2 cents to this as well. A few years back I had sold maybe 20 or so GPUs on Ebay without issue than for some reason I got two buyers (within 30 days of each other) that filed a SNAD (Significantly Not As Described) claim on their purchases 90 days after they bought the GPUs. My listings clearly stated they were used GPUs and I offered no warranty or refunds, although Ebay forces the 30 day return period on you anyway. So I wrote back and explained this to them and stated I would not accept the return. Well they of course escalated it to Ebay who ultimately sided with the buyers.

I too send in documentation, pictures I had took, etc., and tried making my case that it was a used item they had used it for over 90 days and I should not have to pay for a return. For whatever reason Ebay/Paypal disagreed, took the refund from my account and didn't even make the buyers send the item back. I had used the Ebay account for over 5 years and had maybe 250 successful sales of miscellaneous items over that time with excellent feedback. I didn't even think this type of thing was possible, but I promptly closed my account and will not use them again, at least not as a seller. At the time, I did have a brief period where I had some evil thoughts of pulling this stunt as a buyer, but I am not that type of person and will now simply avoid Ebay and Paypal at all costs.

Anyway, if I sell used equipment now I do it in person via Craigslist or other means. I have no issues if the buyer wants to check it out or even if they returned it within a few days, but at some point a sale (especially used) needs to be final. With Ebay/Paypal you could be on the hook for up to 180 days after the sale no matter what. A unscrupulous person could buy your card(s), mine with them for 4-5 months, then have a good chance of making you eat the return.

@za1n:
this is against their TOS- and imho this is an illegal action.
There are just a few people who have the legal insurance and nerves to bring this to court.
What a sick mess!
Everyone who says elon musk is such a saint for inventing all these things like spaceX and Paypal i tell that
giving him credit for PayPal is totally sh**** - while it does a great job for buyers, its a shit-show for sellers.

Btw i sold my D3 and L3+ and also had listings here and a lot of ppl who contacted me insisted on PayPal as if
they were unable to do anything else. Even making escrow with OgNasty they declined. PayPal=ScammerPal  ;D

thanks for hint!  ;)

Agreed. Yes, if I had the financial means I would have tried taking them to court over it, but for a couple of used graphic cards worth maybe $300 combined at the time it just wasn't worth it to proceed financially, even if it was worthwhile on principle. In the real world only those with deep pockets have the luxury to pursue legal options based on principle alone. I found it simpler to just walk away and no longer give them my business. For the most part it has become a shell of the company it once was anyway with most sales now dominated by Chinese firms.

Yes, but the problem with that advice is how do you combat the person creates a new account, buys a 99 cent item, and then gets his 1 positive feedback before going on their scamming spree? Ebay changed it a long time ago where sellers are very restricted on who they can exclude. Ebay is perfectly safe until you as a seller finally get screwed over by a scammer.

No need to even do that. You can't exclude zero feedback or new accounts with the buyer requirements. Only accounts with a feedback score of -1 or lower, which is impossible if you're only a buyer since sellers can no longer leave negative feedback.

You could sell using the Escrow dApp EscrowMyEther: http://escrowmyether.com/

Buyers create an escrow transaction, specifying the seller and escrow agent. His funds are then held by the smart contract.

Once buyer receives the item, buyer can release funds in the Dapp. If there's a dispute, escrow agent can step in to release funds to seller, or refund to buyer based on evidence provided.

This Dapp was posted on reddit yesterday and was well received: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/74f5lh/my_dapp_is_complete_a_paypal_like_escrow_system/

If you need a trusted escrow for your sales, feel free to pm me. I escrow for 0.5% fee and settle disputes based on evidence. The Dapp uses Eth directly, there's no tokens or ICO.

Disclaimer: I'm the developer.

4 min video on using buyer dashboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2_XzSlddWI

Thanks for info, but point is WHERE I will find buyers?  On ebay there are a lot of buyers. To find them outside ebay I need to post a lot of posts in various forums etc.