Bitcoin Forum

In some casinos where you can invest your bitcoin into the bankroll and earn from it, you are able to also leverage your investment so that the amount of profits/losses you make are magnified without having to actually deposit more money into the investment pot.

What kelly multiplier do you personally use and what do you think is the right balance between safety and risk?

Let me know with your replies :)

I know atleast two casino have leverage feature in investment right now; bustadice and yolodice.
Yolodice have upto 10x leverage while bustadice have upto 50x leverage.

I haven't invested in any of them but I will invest some in yolodice first with 10x leverage. I don't like to leave my bitcoin in any online wallets or platforms that's why I will just deposit like 0.10BTC in yolo with 10x leverage which will be like 1BTC bankroll from my side.

It's better to take risk of losing 0.10BTC if anything goes wrong or site got hacked rather than losing all 1BTC.  ;)

For me, I love high risk gambling site investments, usually gambling sites do not lose in the long run, this is because statistically gambling sites will always win because of house edge. If we compute this house edge, it may be small but if you look at it in a graph with aa long list of bets, it would result that the casinos will always win in the long run, since the value will not go near zero but actually go down for the gamblers.

I like the idea of using leverage with low beta/high yield/high quality companies. People who have never seen a significant bear market seem to rely too much on extrapolating from the historical average as if the market will never lose half its value again. If you use Interactive trader absurdly low margin interest and buy crypto currencies, you'll be more resistant to downturns than if you were holding the whole market and you'll be paying the margin loan passively with dividends. If you want to use leverage, this seems like a much better way to do it in everything but a screaming bull market.

I prefer to take more risk when investing as well, since in the long run it will earn you more :D However 50x at bustadice is a bit too much for me.

However, if you look at yolodice for example, 607 of the 663 BTC invested, is invested at 10x leverage. So as long as no whales are betting, you are making almost the same as if everyone had no leverage.

Investing on a casino is risky with a leverage I tried it once on betking back then when they're still opened for public investments. Their default kelly multiplier was x3 I can say that it was a roller coaster ride because betking had many high rollers popping in and out of their site. I would personally pick x1 because that's where I had a better profit and you won't experience much damage in your investment compared to the higher ones.

But do they let you use leverage like that, without having the funds to cover your investment if it goes wrong? They don't let you do that in exchanges, and in leverage investments/trading you can win a lot of course, but you can lose more than your initial investment. Basically it's a loan from the casino, so are you sure you are just risking the 0,1 BTC?

This is a very important detail you have pointed out, when it comes to investing with a leverage, potential investors should check out the structure of the bankroll they are about to invest to. If high leverage investments make up for a majority of the bankroll structure, it becomes safer to invest at high leverages too, because in case of big winnings on players side more investments would take a hit. I've been investing at YOLOdice for quite a while and there hasn't been any prolonged time frames of loss for investors, which can be checked at their investor stats page.

Sometimes I want to risk more so I put 6-7 leverage level, but for a safe investment I think you can set lvl 2-3 leverage. I have seen some people putting even lvl 10 leverage and it's going very well... But be attention, if the house loses 10% of its bankroll all your investment is over with leverage 10!

I always go all out on these gambling investments. Since most of the time the investments do profit in the end anyway. The highest I've placed my investments was at 10x leverage. However, that new casino based of bustabit, I think it's name is bustadice, is offering leverage of up to 50x! That is extremely high. Though, that would totally hurt if someone just won something big.

Generaly I'm using non-leveraged options. Just to reflect the real site profitability.
But e.g. yolodice allows you to make separate investments. So I have also some 5x and 10x lev. (smaller investments). The problem is when somobody wins huge amount (jackpot or w/e) the 10x leverage investment will be gone.

These leverage options are very high risky investments and you should only invest some partial amount on these kinds of high-risk investments. Many traders lost everything due to these high leverage options and it is same in casino investments also. So far I didn't do any leverage bankroll investments but invested in few casino bankrolls without any leverage options.

i invested on yolodice till now and most of my investments are set at leverage 10 some people don't put such a high leverage but till now i have always been able to make good amounts of profit it's better to keep higher leverage to get more profits and get it faster

when leverage ( kelly ) is available I always go with the max , the edge is the same so higher kelly means faster profit
but also let's not forget that most of the investors do the same , especially in bitvest and yolodice ( I have only invested in bitvest ) so this basically makes your share the same that if it there was no kelly ( it makes the max bets higher though )

risks are always part in investing , I still remember that day when Bitvest got bankrupt by a lucky highroller who made the investors really suffer ( he won like 25% of the bankroll if I remember it right )

.I agree with you. Having 0.1 BTC in is safer then 1btc. You would only lose 0.1 as opposed to 1btc . It is the same thing really. Also then you don't need the full 1btc you can take a risk with 0.1 instead. Yolodice has a really great investment program and I am glad you brought it up and I am glad you are a happy investor in Yolodice.

Maybe some people here would like a solid investment? Try Yolodice you won't be disopointed.

Actually according to my tracking yolodice is not much profitable for investors and I was a bit surprised by their "investing fee" (35% of your profit  ::)  ... no other site have such thing ).

As of leverage:
Sure it's better to risk 0.1 BTC than 1 BTC ... but thing is the 10x leveraged investment will disappaer when somebody wins 10% of bakroll (so if you would invest 1 BTC non-leverget you would be on the same).

IMO the best results (for investors) are with crypto-games (but they do not offer leveraging so it's not much attractive)

I read that most people are using 10x but for me this is too risky.

I personaly am using 2x or 3x, casino depending. Some whales could easily eat 10% of the site's bankroll and then your 10 leveraged investment is gone. But to kill 33.33% of the bankroll is much more harder.

Though the reason why most investors use the highest possible option for leverage is that gambling sites always profits in the end. There might be a whale that suddenly wins, but most of the time they just lose all throughout. It will all just even out in the long run, because statistically speaking the house edge will make the gambling site profit because it all leads to the house profiting.

That's not true.
As I already said above: If you invest with 10x leverage and the whale wins more than 10% of casino funds. THIS ENTIRE INVESTMENT COMPLETELY DISAPPEAR !!! IS CANCELLED, LOST FOREVER
Contrary if you invested nonleveraged amount you lost 10% of your funds but the investment itself will continue (eventualy can even out).

Yeah i think your suggestion was also pretty risky to begin with, but if you want then you can try it anyways, but as far as what i ak concerned and as he said it was too high risk on that option on leverage, the tendency is that you might actually lose everything rather than win some of it. Just saying it anyway.

If you undertake a game of chance, then you will already have to decide on that. Well, you will take risks or not. Gambling is always a risk and if you bet so specifically.

It is really hard to see a gambling site that does not profit, I haven't heard of anyway. I agree with you with people winning huge and ending up putting it back in and such whales are even rare and comparing the number to the number of people who must have lost, it is still more of a huge win for the gambling site unless it is just one huge chunk of money the whale must have won. However, 10x is enough.

But it's not entirely about gambling here, it's about investing in a gambling site that offers a leveraged investment, which is very risky IMO.
I'd rather invest in a casino with a smaller site balance in a certain altcoin, it's still possible to get some really decent returns on a relatively small investment that way.

On Crypto-Games for example, you can invest in Gridcoin or Peercoin and get a nice profit once there's a lot of gambling activity on those coins.

One of the things that I always do is noticed first about the place that I would use for investment. because it is sometimes a lot of people who are very good in manage bankroll but weak in observation or analysis of the investments made. So it would be much better that more focus on analysis of the place for investment compared to bankroll, because if the investment has already managed to place the analysis surely we can easily arrange to bankroll.