Bitcoin Forum

Okay

I got 5 YAC. The price for each YAC is .0003. Yap, there are 3 zeros there. That means it's 3/10000

If one BTC is around $100, one YAC is 3 cents.

So I made 15 cents in 8 hours or 45 cents a day.

With 5 computers.

Why would anyone mine this thing?

Even if the price go up it makes more sense to just put $1k, dump them, and then wait till price go up.

It doesn't make sense mining this.

They infect their employers networks and use 100s of computets and free electric and make money.

Yes, this is reality of bitcoin-mining now.

Don't expect to earn a dime unless you are some kind of super-nerd with a 1'000 square-feet basement filled with super-computers (or ASICs) and a mini nuclear-plant under your bed that keeps you warm at night.

So unless you are this crazy super-nerd I described above; if you wanna "earn" money now, your best (and only) bet would be to start as a speculator and actually buy bitcoins at MtGox, btc-e or bitstamp and HOLD them for a couple years and hope price goes up. Lots of ice-buckets on your stomach recommended.

Not really a bad idea. I would rather "bet" on bitcoins than any real-life stock-market company right now. Both are risky, but bitcoins in my eyes much less risky than the dang stock-market.

As you said yourself: "It doesn't make sense mining this."

Sounds like a pretty intelligent conclusion to me. You're obviously a clever dude; start trusting your own intelligence more. You seem to have enough of it, just need to add a dash of self-confidence and you'll soon find a way to conquer the world with it.

Never forget the old quote:

"During the Klondike Gold-Rush, the ones who got rich was not the miners; but those who crafted and sold the tools they used."

Why?

You're right in that it's essentially impossible to profit from mining YAC if you pay for your own CPUs and electricity. As BitJohn said, a good number of the remaining YAC miners are probably using systems that they neither own nor pay the electricity for (that's not to say they're all criminals :P so please don't take this the wrong way). I'd estimate -- and I have no proof to back this up, just guessing -- that the remaining YAC network hash power is split about 50/50 between people mining with GPUs and those who are mining with server farms/botnets.

To put things into perspective, I happened to be reading the forum at the moment that YAC was released. I began mining ~15-30 mins after release and within 24 hours I had 6000 coins using only a single Intel i7 3770k. Within about 5 days electricity costs began to approach the value of the coins that I was mining and I decided to halt my mining.

When the N value goes up the amount of hash goes down by ~ 50%. That's why people aren't seeing the hash rate they WERE mining with a few weeks ago.

In my opinion the N value went up way too fast too soon. We should be a year from now or so at todays N value (1024).

On the bright side not many coins are being made now which should make the price go higher.

Agreed.  The N value is ridiculous at this time point, the coin is still a baby.

Keep in mind that as N goes up, the amount of decrease everyone gets is equal. For example:

Let's say N = 1
Person with 50 hash/s earns 50 coins a day
Person with 25 hash/s earns 25 coins a day
Their ratio is 50:25 or 2:1

Now N jumps to 2
Person with 50 hash/s is now at 25 hash/s and earns 25 coins a day
Person with 25 hash/s is now at 12.5 hash/s and earns 12.5 coins a day
Their ratio is 25:12.5 or 2:1

In other words, after 500 days and N is now 500 and they are getting 0.00001 hash/s, the ratio will still be 2:1. Meaning that it's still really the same.

This is why I believe the N value increasing isn't an issue. Unless someone can shed light on where the mathematics would be wrong? The way I see it, if I earn half what you do, it doesn't matter if I earned 1 coin or 1 million coins; either way I still have half the value of you.

Unless you have what the second person said... you need to look at this as a long term type deal.

With small hash, you need to gamble on coins.

What to look for is a active dev. If the dev is somewhat active with a coin that is good.

Target coins not on the markets yet. Guys like me and you will NEVER make it on those coins...  The difficulty spikes all the time as the asses with 2+ mhs go and rape the shit out of the coin quick and only dump em then making price crash.

The people back in the early days of BTC... never thought... now those that stuck with it and held on are very well off... not saying many of the alts going now will take off like that... but, risk is part of the fun.

its certainly not fun to mine anymore with a single desktop PC. i got more from the 3 YAC giveaway thread than i ever got from mining

If N was going up at slower pace people would still rape it with Amazon clusters and it would be continuous pump and dump stuff. YAC was pretty much saved from that since it was included on exchanges, it's price range was pretty much between 0.00032 and 0.00065.

It's an awful price for such coin though, very solid and strong but very low, a crime compared to some coins that shouldn't be put in same sentence with it. But I guess FUD prior it was included at Bter made them to put that silly coin description and trading fee and that left it in current range. Though it probably helped to not be pumped and dumped in first hours.

I just can't see this coin not making it and going up heavily. If it doesn't, than coin design itself means heck all as it is the most advanced coin by a mile at this moment.

i do love the work the dev team put into it

FWIW, I own my server farm (as made rather public on the first day or two of the coin launch), and definitely pay my own electricity.  And despite being one of the few that did implement GPU mining of YAC (just not necessarily one that performs as spectacularly as people seem to think every GPU implementation is going to achieve), I still CPU-mine YAC at this point.  Tons and tons of cheap Xeon-based IBM BladeCenter blade servers that people dump on eBay for pocket change just because they're a couple years old and not the latest-and-greatest blade servers on the market, reasonable power costs, and sensible and efficient design of data center cooling are key here.  Per unit of CPU performance, I pay less than half what someone would pay merely for a motherboard, a bit of RAM and an i7-2600k, to achieve the same level of performance, and end up with carrier-class hot-swappable hardware, with more redundancy than you can shake a stick at, that just doesn't fail except under unusual circumstances.  This was formerly IBM's hardware platform for building supercomputer clusters for NSA, who tend not to have a sense of humor about power supplies that fail when you look at them funny.  This just comes down to resourcefulness and ability to scrounge the right hardware (or even to know what to look for in the first place) to keep costs down.

You can bet I would've really cleaned up had I seen the delayed YAC announcement sooner than 8 hours after the coin finally launched..  I even had the entire server cluster all prepared to network-boot a YAC-specific Debian Linux image off one of my file servers, and it was all tested and ready to go prior to the originally scheduled YAC launch date/time, I just needed the final version of the client.  But alas, I was asleep (and/or in the wrong part of the world) at the time the coin finally launched.

where do you mine yacoin?

perhaps some pools fair, some pools unfair,

because yacoin's difficult change every hour, the value of each block is different,

so use PPS is not a good way, no one know what's the value for per share.

so come to mine here http://yac.ltcoin.net

if one block only 1 share and you found it, the block belongs to you!

come here to find some lucky.

Off topic, but digger, I always get in war mode when I see your nick when browsing forum... that was a nick of a guy I had zillion fights with on one local forum years ago.. what a pile of shite he was  ;D

Do you have some Ebay link of that specific hardware you use

;D

Without endorsing any particular eBay vendor, and just as an example of almost identical HS21 blade servers to what I use (most of mine have E5450 CPU's rather than E5440's, but that's only a few % difference in performance):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PACK-8853-AC1-IBM-HS21-BLADE-2-x-E5440-2-83-GHZ-QUAD-CORE-8GB-RAM-2x-73GB-/200876881184?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec531f520

Remember, that price is for a pack of *10* blade servers, not just one.  :)  8GB ECC RAM and dual 73GB SAS hard drives included even (though I prefer just network-booting any slave workers in my cluster).

Then for each group of 14 blade servers, you need a BladeCenter chassis, management module (AMM if you can find one), Ethernet switch module, and depending how many power supplies came with your chassis, a couple power supplies.  All of the above are dirt-cheap on eBay too, even the old original BladeCenter E chassis that work perfectly fine for everything right up to the newest blade servers from IBM (albeit with some specific requirements for slot ordering when combining newer HS23 blades with certain power supply types in old E series chassis).

In addition to that, you do also need a decent IT skillset.  It's not at all a difficult platform to work with, but would probably be pretty intimidating to someone with no network engineering or data center experience.  You manage all the servers through video and keyboard redirection to a web browser interface (via a Java version of VLC), and a shared DVD tray / USB slot that you can connect to any of the 14 blades in a chassis at a time.  You can even mount a CD/DVD drive or ISO image from whatever computer you're hitting the management module with your web browser from, and it appears to be an actual hardware CD/DVD drive attached to that server.  Makes OS installation a breeze, you never have to get up from your desk to go swap install media.

Don't try to set up a BladeCenter farm in your home though.  The (dual redundant) cooling blowers are loud enough to wake the dead.  And you do need 208V-230V power as well (might be a problem for some people, not for others).  And don't expect to get rich mining YAC either.  I *do* have relatively inexpensive power.  I mine with them because I have them already for another business doing render farm jobs on film projects, and there are times they're free to do other tasks.  If it costs less in power to leave them up and mining YAC, great.  Otherwise I'd power them down when no render farm jobs are queued up.

And for those with an eye toward power costs, you can measure and graph the power consumption of every individual blade server and other component installed in the chassis via the management module's web interface.


Okay, this photo is actually one of my HS21 XM blades rather than a straight HS21 blade, but close enough, just trades some extra DIMM slots in place of the 2nd hard drive slot:
https://i.imgur.com/DIizYMW.jpg

 :o ~~~~

This is why all the hand-wringing over GPU mining farms is pointless. Despite the decreased efficiency mining YAC with GPUs, there are people with access to far larger CPU clusters than anyone has running GPU farms. 

Hi WindMaster!

I've read a lot of your posts around these forums regarding YAC as I've followed its developments quite closely. I inserted the caveat in my above statement specifically thinking of people like you. I have no qualms with the way you're mining and in fact I think it's great. As you explained... you've been resourceful and smart in the way that you've gathered your equipment and I really respect that. I understand that you own and pay for all of your equipment (and apparently can still profit from YAC mining) so I'm not trying to disparage you in stating that a large percentage of the YAC network hash rate is in server farms. I just think it's the truth (again, I don't have proof, it's my opinion). And I'm not saying there's anything right or wrong with server farms ruling the network, just that they probably do. ;P

As for GPU mining, I don't think either of us can really be sure what's happening on that front. You state that you are among the few who managed to implement GPU mining but can you really be sure of this? I think no one can. In situations such as this where there is money on the line, a lot of smart minds (like yours) go to work. I would hazard a guess that most people capable of creating a YAC GPU miner are not the kind who would be quick to telegraph such things to the world. ;)

It sounds like you were indeed prepared for the YAC launch -- it's too bad it didn't go off as the developer had stated (there was even one false launch!). I'm sorry to hear that you missed it. :(

Thanks mate, too tired to read this carefully but will definitely study it when I wake up. WOuld love some of these toys, though I'm not in USA it might be too expensive to import it.

Try mine to P2P pool, with 300K Hash/s you should have around 100-150 YAC per day.

[ANN] YAC P2P Pool http://yacpool.cloudapp.net:8336 (fast, reliable, 1% fee)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223827.0

Buy what you want to hold, secure it with mining.

I trade for YACs what I mine with my gnarly 6850 and CPU mine sometimes in a pool mostly for the sake of it.

Except you are forgetting one thing.  Nobody wants the fucking things.

I listened to myself with this kind of reasoning 2-3 years ago when I could've been mining BTC unprofitably, and look at where that got me. Sometimes you need to look further than your next payday.


Well someone appears to, or we'd already have traded all the way down to zero. QED.

I remember your comments about this in the Yacoin thread. I pointed a few blades at it myself within hours of launch. I believe the problem was exactly the AWS system - way too much hashing power pointed at the coin which left thousand of orphans for everyone else. I did alright, but not as well as you as I recall made over 100k in coins, and then I stopped on day three and ignored the coin like so many others. Now, it's almost as worthless as all the other alts. For these coins to be viable - they need interest (hence why you see all the giveaways). Anytime a new crypto currency is created, early AWS/botnet miners try and sell it immediately at 5 ltc per 1k of x-coin. No buyers, now, they were burned.

Well, 2.5x higher cost per comparable amount of processing power (L5420's are 2.5GHz, E5440's are 2.83GHz, E5450's are 3GHz), no redundant power supplies or redundant cooling, no remote management, and no hot swapping the servers (in a matter of seconds).  But other than those, or if someone just wants a couple dual Xeon-based servers..  At that kind of price, and factoring in higher power costs for the older Core2-based 5400 series Xeon CPU's, I'd almost just go for an i7 family desktop CPU + motherboard instead.  At least for YAC mining.  In terms of hardware quality alone though, the Dell CS24's are still quite a bit above desktop gear, just not as good on the price/performance curve.  :)

Well, they are stupid and deserve to be burned if they act like this.

I never understood why someone would mine a new coin if they don't belive in it. Mining your 100k probably wasn't a problem for you, but buying so many is usually impossible witout paying far more than they were worth at that moment. There is no way to get so many new altcoins witout spending more than they are worth.

Yes but what he was saying it's too soon for the nvalue increase as everyone should still be getting high hash rates and more coins at this point in time.  It's too soon for such little coin when the value of the coin is still really low, it's going to deter some people, as the OP is an example.

we don't know ;) we are not mining it :D

The size of the PSU does not determine how much power the CPU(s) consume.  The TDP of two L5420's is higher than, say, an i7-2600k, while the i7-2600k is faster than two L5420's for most workloads while burning less power.



This is probably true if you're only looking for just one server.  I'd say the crossover point in amount of trouble is reached by the time you're looking at 2 or more Dell CS24 servers.  The price crossover point is definitely reached by the time you look at 2 CS24's.  Actually very nearly by the time you look at just a single CS24, depending how far you have to ship the BladeCenter chassis.

But by all means, no one else should look at the BladeCenter platform at all.  I'll continue being perfectly happy paying 2.5x to 3x less than the cost of alternatives for a given amount of processing power while never having to lug around a monitor, keyboard and mouse to connect to individual servers.  It'll just have to be my little secret how I keep hardware and operating costs so low on massive server farms.

When I mined, I got low acceptance rate. What's wrong?

mmmm anyone with hundreds of computers need staff  :o

Hmm, it would be morally wrong to steal from your employer, but what about a unpaid traineeship where the employer doesn't mind if you run some hardcore mining. I don't know if this kind of tax evation is legal (probably not), but it seems impossible to prove and benefits both.

Assuming that you life in a state that spends billions on banksters or MWD I see no moral problem there.

The only person still mining YAC is Vladimir Putin

I'm mining yak's and making some nice profit. Too bad it went down today...

Still 2x the profit of ltc though.

I have two GPU rigs, but am new to CPU mining.  For fun I started mining YAC on my work desktop via a pool.
I have an AMD FX-6120 Six-Core at 3.5 Ghz and 10 GB of memory.
I mined for about 12 hours and got 3 coins.
What am I doing wrong?  Below is my .bat

minerd-avx.exe -a scrypt-jane -o  http://pool.yacointalk.com:8336 -u Y51uiyQsGXGnVxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -p x -t 20

use this pool

http://yac.ltcoin.net

you will get much more coins