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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Aurelion on October 08, 2017, 04:17:14 PM



Title: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Aurelion on October 08, 2017, 04:17:14 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Swoshinima on October 08, 2017, 05:07:24 PM
Just to be on the safe side it's enough not to give ANYBODY your private key or UTC / JSON file.

If that is ensured, you just can't loose any money.

To know if an airdrop is a good one, you should pay attention to the developer team, like for instance if they show themselves or not.

Another good indicator are many posts on the topic. If the official ann (announcement) thread has only 2 pages after some days, it's very likely it won't have success.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: mk4 on October 08, 2017, 05:24:00 PM
Uh. You can easily tell if one is legit or a scam just simply by checking if they actually sent you the coins. Legit air drops don't ask for your private keys. Usually they just ask you to send a small amount to them or sign a message then send it to them to confirm that the wallet is indeed yours. NEVER. GIVE. OUT. YOUR. PRIVATE KEYS. It's just like giving a hacker your social media account's password.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Mozdalifa17 on October 08, 2017, 05:42:58 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?
No one can tell. So try to study by yourself project aim and idea to see is that a copy/paste project or just a hype or something bring new developments to crpto world . also try to search what developers and coders say about it don't take only view read more and then nothing to loose by registering in airdrop . and remember some projects will fail in one month time other will continue like a rocket (see the story of XMR ,DCR ,ONION ..etc)
Thank you


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Moonshine4321 on October 08, 2017, 07:37:22 PM
I have not figured out a way to tell besides, signing up and waiting, even some that are legit at first will have problems and not deliver, time is really the only answer as far as I can tell.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: mac__d on October 08, 2017, 08:52:44 PM
It's really hard to tell which ones are real  ???


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: gaelius on October 08, 2017, 11:50:52 PM
hi, there is some websites repertoring the good ones, otherwise try to find information abouter team...website, community etc.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: chukaday on October 08, 2017, 11:55:44 PM
You shouldnt have to send anything like money or private keys to the dev. Maybe some information about eth address and email but thats about it. Also see how active the devs are in the ann because that is a telling sign.

Recently Ethereum Dark ann seems like it is now a scam because devs are barely online and there seems to be zero development ongoing. Be careful out there, otherwise you will be left salty and holding a bag.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: KKbit on October 09, 2017, 12:50:02 AM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

When you join an airdrop, there is a free distribution of tokens, so you wont loose anything besides your time.

If you value your time like I do, you should look for airdrops that seem to have a good team behind it, that deliver and its active, you should look into the project itself, if it looks promising, if it is inovator or it is a copycat like most of them created lately.. then stay away from those.
 


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: mk4 on October 09, 2017, 01:52:05 AM
It's really hard to tell which ones are real  ???
hi, there is some websites repertoring the good ones, otherwise try to find information abouter team...website, community etc.
The thing is, airdrops should be FREE. So there's literally zero risk in trying to determine if a certain cryptocurrency's airdrop is legit or not, as like I said earlier, you would probably only need to sign a message to confirm that the wallet is indeed yours. You can literally just join every single airdrop in existence and you wouldn't lose anything but your time.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: gonza2112 on October 09, 2017, 02:38:02 AM
It's really hard to tell which ones are real  ???
hi, there is some websites repertoring the good ones, otherwise try to find information abouter team...website, community etc.
The thing is, airdrops should be FREE. So there's literally zero risk in trying to determine if a certain cryptocurrency's airdrop is legit or not, as like I said earlier, you would probably only need to sign a message to confirm that the wallet is indeed yours. You can literally just join every single airdrop in existence and you wouldn't lose anything but your time.
Yes, the only thing I think they could use is the email that you use when filling but alone it has not much use


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Mpamaegbu on October 09, 2017, 03:11:27 AM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

Yes, I do have. It's the DYOR advice: Do Your Own Research. Besides, the telling sign that an airdrop is a scam is a developer asking you for more revealing information such as private key or you sending coins first before you could receive from them.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: cakra on October 09, 2017, 07:44:44 AM
well, right now it's a lot of airdrop. always be careful when someone asks for a private key. enough with a wallet only. be careful also if anyone asks to send some money.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: btcprospecter on October 09, 2017, 10:48:15 AM
I find it hard to tell what ones are legit but if you do a little research and digging you can usually find out. If something seems too good to be true then it probably is.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: coinspam on October 09, 2017, 11:14:48 AM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?
If they ask for your Private Key, it's a scam. Can't believe how stupid some people can be to give their private key to someone but hey, there's lots of stupid people in the world!


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Coin.Master636 on October 09, 2017, 12:21:17 PM
You can't ever be 100% sure... But you can try things like background checks of the droppers.
  • Check why they are doing it.
  • Check if they didn't just copy a popular one.
  • Check if they try to stay hidden or if they are open about everything.
  • Check forums with discussions about the droppers.
  • Never, ever give your private key to anyone. Neither your UTC/JSON file.
  • If it's really too good to be true, just try it. In the world of cryptocurrency, you never know ;-)


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: gmf1000 on October 09, 2017, 02:57:52 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

Tbh, airdrops are free... So, as long as it only required your eth address / bitcointalk forum nickname, you have nothing to loose even if it is a scam...
In case you don't want to waste your time apply for scam airdrops you could study their project, is it good, unique, and have a good chance to succeed in the future... But it takes time, you know...


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: cryptolab on October 09, 2017, 03:03:50 PM
are those airdrop has actually value?


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: word1211 on October 09, 2017, 03:16:31 PM
hello are there any airdrops still going on???


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Troysen on October 09, 2017, 03:47:08 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

a legit airdrop doesn't ask your private info like private key or asking for money. And also there are legit airdrop but unfortunately its not succesful so we didnt get anything


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: rorromira on October 09, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Hi, as the others said before if in the airdrop registration you dont have to give away your private key they cant stole money from you. And its another thing if the project will succeed or not.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: chrissteph on October 09, 2017, 04:54:04 PM
new here, been searching for airdrops ;D


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Heye on October 09, 2017, 07:20:15 PM
new here, been searching for airdrops ;D

https://airdropalert.com/
https://www.crypto-analyse.fr/airdrop/


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: BryanBitcoin123456 on October 09, 2017, 07:33:14 PM
Where can I find out more about airdrops?


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: rain3798 on October 11, 2017, 02:40:52 PM
For me the Airdrop that I only trust are those that are written in AirdropAlerts.com because I think they are the legit airdrops and they really give free coins. Just don't give your private keys and your safe even it is scam or not.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: alfstep on October 11, 2017, 03:44:43 PM
The one and most important thing in joining an airdrop is
DO NOT EVER entrust your private key to anybody, NOT EVEN yourself! :D

Aside than that, nothing to loose for me  ;D


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: mysacrifice on October 11, 2017, 04:02:47 PM
basic and clear indication is if someone is asking your private key for your wallet, then there it is, %100 scam. never give your private key to someone.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: asdalani on October 11, 2017, 04:11:55 PM
new here, been searching for airdrops ;D
There's a search function in this website that allows the user to search for a specific input in the whole website. Search for airdrops.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: jtipt on October 11, 2017, 04:17:43 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

When you join an airdrop, there is a free distribution of tokens, so you wont loose anything besides your time.
 
But The thing is those tokens are worthless if the airdrop is a scam. But as you said even if they are worthless you don't lose anything other than time.
And besides that as many people have already pointed it out its very easy to figure if the airdrop is scam, at least easier than to spot a scam ICO.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: eldub on October 11, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
I feel ok with the Ethereum and Wave token airdrops, but I won't download a wallet to get an airdrop coin.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: jumpsuitjoe on October 11, 2017, 04:24:44 PM
To go along with what a lot of people are saying here, as long as you're not giving them any information other than the delivery address, there's no way you can get scammed. Even if the airdrop ends up being worthless, who cares. It doesn't mean you were scammed, it just means you wasted some time on a useless token. Take as many airdrops as you can get, there's no harm in participating as long as you keep your information private.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: The_Dark_Knight on October 11, 2017, 04:29:14 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?
I have seen two types of airdrops, maybe there are more, a new coin that decides to give the coins to people and forked coins that gives to you an equal amount of the airdropped coins than the ones you had in your wallet, both have some cons, in the first case if a condition is attached to the delivery of the coins then that is fishy, in the second case the airdropped coins are delivered fairly but most of the time the new coin wants to destroy the original and that is bad for your investment in that coin.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: cdb1690 on October 11, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
It's not only about giving or not giving out your private key (which you obviously shouldn't). There are other dangers of participating in airdrops including infected wallet software, infected website, email & password harvesting etc...


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: jumpsuitjoe on October 11, 2017, 05:20:36 PM
I feel ok with the Ethereum and Wave token airdrops, but I won't download a wallet to get an airdrop coin.

This is also a great point. Don't ever download anything or sign up for an account somewhere that isn't well-known. And for heaven's sake, if you do sign up for an account, don't use the same password as your other accounts. Make sure you're using a unique password for just that site so they can't phish your info.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: lokinator on October 11, 2017, 05:31:45 PM
My goodness -- Does anyone else notice the latest trend here on Bitcointalk? Some newbie member posts a silly question about airdrops (such as how to tell if they are real), then half the responses are newbie members asking for information on airdrops. It's almost like everyone coming into the crypt world just thinks they are going to get millions of dollars worth of free coins. No investing, no research, just free stuff.  ::) ::) ::)

Also, apparently nobody considers using the search function on these forums anymore. Or even use Google for that matter.

To answer the OP:
Q - How do I tell if an airdrop is authentic
A - If you received coins it's probably a good bet that it is authentic

Important to note: An airdrop in which you ask for a handout for doing nothing, can't be a "scam." You didn't give them anything, so if they don't give you anything, you are in the same spot you were before asking for a free handout. You haven't been "scammed."

The obvious: Don't ever give anyone your wallet credentials or private keys. Nobody should have to reiterate that here in a thread like this because it is beyond obvious.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: maxwell1 on October 11, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
airdrops are free... So, as long as it only required your eth address / bitcointalk forum nickname, you have nothing to loose even if it is a scam,

Just never give out your private keys and UTC file you are good,
I don't seen it as waste of time though


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: maxwell1 on October 11, 2017, 06:53:00 PM
airdrops are free... So, as long as it only required your eth address / bitcointalk forum nickname, you have nothing to loose even if it is a scam,

Just never give out your private keys and UTC file you are good,
I don't seen it as waste of time though


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: marados on October 11, 2017, 06:54:57 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

If I see some airdrop announcement thread firstly, I check how much effort they put in it. If it is just copy-paste from some other airdrop or just some random text or something like that I automatically skip it. But if their thread looks legit to me and that they actually put some effort in it, then I check out reply to the thread to see what other people are replying. Then if everything seems okay, I check their website and other links they provided. Also be very careful, if thread seems scammy don't click on any links, especially do NOT download  their so called "wallets". And lastly check which information they want you to provide.

If it's only your ethereum address and bitcointalk profile link that is okay, with that they can't do you any harm. But if they ask for more personal information then be sure that they are legit and that their airdrop is authentic

Be safe and check twice!


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: 5ensei on October 11, 2017, 06:57:27 PM
Anything with an e in front is a scam except for eBTC. Lots of copycat coins trying to jump on the airdrop bandwagon but will probably just dump the coins and abandon the project.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Iolanna on October 11, 2017, 07:02:35 PM
Good airdrops are rare now. If the dropped coin is already traded on exchanges, than I guess this airdrop deserved attention. Most of others are just another sheetcoins, which doesn't have any background. But even such coins can be very profitable as eBTC and ELTC2.
The main risk is when you have to install a wallet to get some coins. I prefer to be safe and just skip those.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: joshmontford on October 11, 2017, 07:05:18 PM
Airdrops are like everything else, you need to do your own research. It's good to go through this forum and see what people are talking.  So, your own research and the community are your best bet.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Miracle_Man on October 11, 2017, 07:08:37 PM
For security I do not participate in those air drops that require downloading their wallet. Because they can have viruses


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Throne187 on October 11, 2017, 07:08:46 PM
Hello all, need some knowledge from you. Still new to ETH and tokens.
I applied for quite some airdrops, but didnt add all the tokens, now i cant even remember them all.
Now what i think is that if some of them become successful in time they get added and will be visible in MEW without me doing anything right?


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Faiyz on October 11, 2017, 09:43:50 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

Well , I guess its hard to figure out what airdrops are legit or scam, but I suggest you to do first your own research for the project that have airdrops, focus on their team behind that project and the concept of the project too. Then it is for you to decide if you can get the airdrops or not.  It is risky .


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: luckydag on October 11, 2017, 09:46:58 PM
airdrops are usually scam, very few are of good quality.
it is necessary to examine the project team to understand that it is a quality project.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: khufuking on October 11, 2017, 09:54:35 PM
First you can never tell if an airdrop ico is scam or not . But there is a lot of things to do to prevent yourself from getting scammed !

You can  Just join any airdrop and get your free coins ( If it turn out as scam you will lose nothing except 1 min of your time ) , But for deciding if you want to put real money on it you need to do this .

-Wait and follow the ico and see how deva stick to his/her words ( sending airdrop etc)
-Wait some more time and see if deva have a real plan for his coin/token and what is his roadmap .
-wait again some more time and see if deva was serious about his roadmap and actually started to follow it .
-After doing all this you can now start to analyze the information you have and based on it you can decide if you wanna put your hard earned money in this ico !


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Beicin on October 11, 2017, 10:06:24 PM
Well, you can try checking for some red flags. If they ask for too much information (personal info) you should probably stay away from the airdrop... If they ask for any kind of private wallet, back off immediatelly and spread the word about the airdrop being a scam so let others know.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: billysunday2000 on October 11, 2017, 10:09:27 PM
I would caustious when it comes to down loading a wallet for an obscure coin you never heard of before.
Could have trojan malware.  But it is also to point out that most anti-various software will flag anything that is new or does not have very many users etc.  The new air drops that are riding on the Ether or Waves platform are safe they do not have there own wallet issues to worry about.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Cryptobosslady on October 11, 2017, 10:19:57 PM
Is really hard to tell which is legit or a scam. Time will tell


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: _Dawid_ on October 11, 2017, 10:57:51 PM
In spire of things like research, white paper, developers, community etc. you also need to feel that is it real. If it is scam you will sense kinda that you have got coins in fact for free.Also if you will find very futuristic project or just odd it also the sign that you should check it better. Too ambitious projects will be interesing for investors but not available to create any time soon. If the character of its is not serius it could(but not alwys) be scam, if you see that someone is creating the blockchain for something without sense it wont works.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: floooch on October 11, 2017, 11:47:04 PM
If something seems too good to be true then it's most probably a scam.
Also never download a new wallet if too few infos are available or you're not 100% sure it's legit.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: yusuf98 on October 12, 2017, 12:22:07 AM
I think if you want to follow airdrop. anything related to the account, do not give a wallet account that many contents. or better create a new wallet / use a swallow that is not full of its contents.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: rbt on October 12, 2017, 12:44:39 AM
I would caustious when it comes to down loading a wallet for an obscure coin you never heard of before.
Could have trojan malware.  But it is also to point out that most anti-various software will flag anything that is new or does not have very many users etc.  The new air drops that are riding on the Ether or Waves platform are safe they do not have there own wallet issues to worry about.

My own experience with a new wallet: Avst flagged it, but Kaspersky not ??? Anyway, for me it not worth the risk to install a new wallet.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Warren Buffert on October 12, 2017, 12:52:56 AM
Overtime there have been a lot of airdrops. In the past weeks it was extreme, watch out for airdrops that fill like 1000+ spots in an hour and don't have a roadmap.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Sadlife on October 12, 2017, 01:00:03 AM
I think the first you should do is to research the ICO that your investing at, you should know what your getting at sometimes the founder of this ICO's fail because they dont know how to run a company or organization, no clear idea, no marketing idea or how to sell the coin, no reputable organization or company behind the project, bad devs or most of the team only few and if they can't manage to increase the price they give up and it turn into a scam.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: texasman86 on October 12, 2017, 01:00:15 AM
not all airdrops are scams... but ones with no whitepaper whatsoever should be glaring red flags.. If you are not giving up personal information, you really can't lose, however - since you are paying nothing for the tokens/coins.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Darker45 on October 12, 2017, 01:13:27 AM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

Airdrops presenting themselves as mere airdrop is nothing but shit. Leave it and use your time to do some other more productive things. Airdrops should present themselves not just another set of shit tokens. There should be a project, complete with a vision and a plan. They should also present a detailed roadmap. Look at the token supply as well and how much of it is given through the airdrop.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: RedX on October 12, 2017, 01:43:24 AM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?


Well if it turns out to be a scam, you have nothing to lost in the first place because you just registered your email and mew address or whatever. You did not invest any money and received it for free. And also some scamcoins  get listed on exchanges and can be profitable so I just take that opportunity and see what happens.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: niisarearning on October 12, 2017, 01:48:48 AM
Most of the airdrop really worked for me it’s all about concept and listing in the market atleast in etherdelta some of the airdrop happens in waves platform should have listed in waves Dex . Don’t give your private key or Json file for any airdrop Dev.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: swoolzze on October 14, 2017, 01:18:20 PM
Does anyone have advice on how to distinguish authentic airdrops from scams?

My advice for you to tell which is the airdrop scam or the airdrop legit is to search for the details. Research for the information about this airdrop and know who is the one behind that airdrop. Be sure to secure your privacy when filling up the registration about the airdrop. If there is a easy task to join the airdrop without giving your private keys, i'm sure this is legit if also the creator is very trusting. If there are airdrop that want to get your personal information or any private information it can be a scam.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: yaunzunsha on October 14, 2017, 01:30:33 PM
Those who do not have to pay any price of the airdrop do not have to trust
Those who only need to provide EMAIL, ETH address of the currency is too easy to get, people think only sell at the highest price
If you have to do something to qualify for the drop, you will help the project grow, and it will also have a good future as you expected


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: joshmontford on October 14, 2017, 01:38:11 PM
Researching the project for yourself, making sure it's not the copy paste, following the project throughout the campaign. No easy way to tell the difference.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Lukus on October 14, 2017, 09:39:05 PM
IF it tAKES YOU 5min doesnt matter :)


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: MrAAKK on October 14, 2017, 09:48:58 PM
Those who don't put any efforts presenting their "fake" coin.

Those who don't specify some condition/ price to join the Airdrop.

Those who require so little informations (mostly ETH wallet and mail only) are not to be trusted.


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Rebellious on October 14, 2017, 09:53:01 PM
Just never send your Private Key to any one and you will be fine!


Title: Re: Air Drops - How to tell if one is Authentic or a Scam?
Post by: Anthony1985 on October 14, 2017, 09:54:31 PM
You should recognize straight away if it’s a legit one or not.

Some just look like that they were made up in 2 minutes and with minimal effort. On all those I don’t apply