Bitcoin Forum

Article: https://www.coindesk.com/ex-imf-economist-kenneth-rogoff-joins-bitcoin-will-collapse-chorus/

Kenneth Rogoff, Chief Economist of the IMF from 2001-2003 joined the ranks of CEO Jamie Dimon in predicting that the price of bitcoin is merely a bubble and will inevitably collapse. Rogoff, though somewhat amazed by the underlying tech of bitcoin, still thinks that due to government pressure, bitcoin would not be allowed to flourish significantly due to it being a suitable vehicle to carry out illicit activities compared to carrying briefcases full of cash.

Rogoff also stated his disapproval of the current moves of Japan regarding its cryptocurrency laws.

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What Dimon and Rogoff were stating is true: bitcoin is inviting tax evaders and money launderers due to its decentralized and pseudo-anonymous transactions. AML and KYC regulations should be present and followed by all exchanges, and it could be a way to prevent illicit activities from happening, but not preventing it completely. This may be the reason why China and the US are still stubborn about talks regarding bitcoin.

What do you think about Rogoff's statements? Is he making a good point or is he only making things look good for the USD?

He's probably right, but there's always the question of timing, i.e., how long can this bubble
actually last before it pops.  Bitcoin is getting more mainstream, and that always happens
in a bubble.  Joe Blow on the street starts buying X Asset, and meanwhile the price is going
parabolic.  Know what I'm saying?

This market looks like and quacks like a duck...meaning, I think it's a bubble that will
eventually collapse.  I just don't know when.  But in the meantime, there's still money to be
made.

Well, it is always depends on the demand of people for Bitcoin. If it is really a bubble, then we should take profit when it is still early.

Both guys will have their own words to say be relevant. On the issue of KYC, that is something that is not negotiable as we move on in this crypto currency. If you try registering on Xapo mobile wallet, you know what I am talking about. This will eventually spread to exchange sites accordingly.

The China saga and how exchange site were later left to do their business, is surely because of out they agree to implement some more controls which KYC will be key.

Crypto companies that provide card services have two categories and that verified and unverified if you don't verify, then there is limit to the amount you can move and that does not qualifies for money laundering.

With all this in place and more, it will reduce the illicit activities to a large extent but at the same time, this vices have been present even before bitcoin and after being stopped to go through bitcoin by implementing everything, they will still find a way.

There is a way for Bitcoin to last long and be adopted by more people: more regulations. Governments can implement regulations, thats why ICO banning in China is good news, if in the long term it can prevent people from being robbed.
Also, if one day the price of Bitcoin becomes more stable (less volatile),that will encourage people to have more trust and faith into Bitcoin.
Let's be optimistic, what is happening in Japan is great.

I think Rogoff and Dimon make critical claims against Bitcoin that can just easily be made against the Dollar or Euro or Yen.

I don't hear these "captains of industry" talking about how the Dollar's going to collapse because it's used to fund drug deals, illegal arms buys, terrorism, corruption, etc.

I don't hear them talking about how the Dollar's a fraud because a centralized group of people can decide to make more whenever they want, thus reducing the value of every other unit of the currency already in the market.

Their arguments are hollow. They aren't rooted in any fact-based analysis.

That's why Coinbase and Bitcoin exchanges implement AML and KYC regulations upon their websites to prevent such criminal activities to attract the use of bitcoin for their own unlawful acts, Kenneth Rogoff statements contains facts about the btc that is already happening everyday to the bitcoin users however USD has the same troubles and difficulties in terms of criminal activities. He just want to prove that the use of bitcoin is for criminals and money launderers making the USD a preferred and safe currency to use, the fact is the other way around that USD and any other currency are being used by the criminals also.

Everything that goes up might soon be come down.. It is a basic law of gravity,, is it applicable to bitcoin?? Yes in all investments cryptocurrency and stock markets.. The big question is when?? I would have believe him if he give me a time frame for his predictions..
The taxation issue is not a problem of bitcoin it is in government hands to do so and implement.. Why not appeal to the government officials or agency regarding this than making false statements and run with it..

**rolling my eyes** all this fud is beginning to annoy me. Cant we just ignore these people?? Off cause the price of Bitcoin will go down at some point, then up, then down again... What is important is looking at the trajectory, it will always be upwards. By collapsing, does he mean it will go to 0??? I say he can continue dreaming.

So some are using bitcoin for moneylaundering but not all. Same with fiat. Some money launder but not all.

Fuck KEN!!!

Fortune.com - "IMF Head: Cryptocurrency Could Be the Future. Really." (http://fortune.com/2017/10/02/bitcoin-ethereum-cryptocurrency-imf-christine-lagarde/)  ;D

He is right this decentralised platform or currency is what angers the government officials they are right in one way they want to get the tax and stop illegal activities. Btc won't completely collapse if you see the price it is at it's highest peak and this is without  american and chinese investors that price would collapse put btc won't be over they can regulate every single coin simply btc would get replaced.

Honestly, there is a reason I don't pay attention to these CEOs (whether ex or still serving) and the so called renowned financial experts and analysts. Haven't they all been proved wrong about the bitcoin this year with their $2,500 maximum high for the coin? Come on, they should just give us a break. They truly don't comprehend what this is all about.

About tax evasion, yes a strong argument could be put forward in respect to that because of the decentralized nature of the bitcoin. But if the various governments are serious about getting the tax deducted from the Bitcoin transactions, they should fashion a way to do that and quit complaining.

Their arguments are less applicable to national currencies themselves. Rather, their arguments apply to cash, which has similar semi-anonymity and lack of centralized clearinghouse for transactions. I think the powers that be would generally love to eliminate cash, as well as cryptocurrency usage. The more intelligent among them probably realizes that they certainly can't eliminate the latter.

But guys like Dimon and Rogoff are just in disbelief, I think, at the lack of controls put on cryptocurrencies as compared to legacy banking. They want governments to ban their usage and they think this will be enough to make them merely niche and hobbyist status. But they are probably wrong -- cryptocurrency satisfies the growing demand for exit from fiat currencies as storage of wealth. The demand is there. Banning it won't change that.

Everyone can make a mistakes. But this smart guys know what they are doing with giving false news to coin media. They are excited about blockchain but not same feelings about bitcoin. Come on :) They should be sorry that they didnt accumulate cheap btc during a year..

If Kenneth Rogoff was such an brilliant economist he could have predicted the economic meltdown and saved the US and the world over from the economic policies they have taken during his reign at IMF and really made some changes and he could not even predict how the situation was in a bubble during his reign and could burst eventually and now he is predicting about the price of bitcoin and how the bubble could burst.  :D

Nice catch mate! Ha.ha.ha.


They will be pressured by the government but bitcoin is money and these people are in the same state of making money and will always want to earn money. I doubt it that they are really talking for themselves, they are just the same as before. Look after Dimon's statement the price skyrocketed and now Rogoff? Okay expect a skyrocket.

It is plenty of those bigger investors that are trying to spread FUD over bitcoin, it is full of them and we can see the same thing everyday. But i dont understand why do they want to make bitcoin go down, it is weird, because the price will always recover to it's all time high, and this has been happening for a lot of time.
Obviously that we are in a bubble, but nobody knows when it will collapse.

The thing is that everybody learn from their mistakes because only mistake can teach them how to become a success after next mistake. Bitcoin is on the way to success because it is going on the top of currency in the ending of year because it has crossed many records now up coming record is 12000 USD so let's see.

What a terrible statement.

Bitcoin price will correct maybe even 20%,on fiat it is crash,on btc it is normal,most of btc exchanges has AML KYC,and JP Morgan buying btc in secret same time whan Dimon was calling btc fraud
https://www.coindesk.com/no-fraud-ex-jpmorgan-trader-masters-thinks-bitcoin-breakout-just-beginning/
Money laundering,fraudwho is telling that.Drugs cartels,guns traders,etc are best big banks customers
Now world very well known that big banks from Switzerland were helping Nazi to transfer Nazi companys huge money to safe places.Better thay will say nothing

Yeah, the tax evasion was a good argument however, I think not all people are going to bitcoin because of this. And I think exchanges now are really trying to get KYC/AML compliant because sooner or later this will be the obstacles when government crack down starts. USA has started to search for people who are 'trying' to evade tax by putting their money on bitcoin.These attacks would not cease because bitcoin is gaining wider acceptance now.


Well, they should implement it as a umbrella to prevent criminals taking advantage of bitcoins. Authorities will almost used this argument, remember BTC-e shutting down, this is the very argument that USA authorities used to closed it and arrest the so-called administrator because of money laundering in connection of Mt. Gox heist.

They are trying to get on to our good sides and trying to make us see what they wants us to see, these people didn't get their position without doing something that will force people to give them their positions, they are used to the corporate world, and wa ts everyone to listen to them and just wants to take all the profit, I think if they really don't like Bitcoin, they should just keep their peace, this way, people might curious on their opinions, but they are.not keeping their peace instead they bad mouth Bitcoin, making people think, why say it all of a suuden, why is it timely, though they have points on their statements, they should just keep it on their own, we all know the news on IMF about legarde's statement, and now Kenneth rogoff just coming out, and is a former economist, I think there should be a lot more to learn about today's economy, since there is now a lot of cryptocurrencies they have created a new economy than the previous ones, I think they should also consider that. What I see is they failed to study a new set of economy, that is the digital economy, which has a different set of rules than the traditional.

All you need to do is look at any Bitcoin price chart for the last 5 years and you will see we are in a massive bubble therefore of course Bitcoin price will collapse!

He has a point about bitcoin being used in elicit activities and he may be right on his predictions about the future of bitcoin or he could also be wrong. But i believe, bitcoin has not reached its paramount value yet which i believed that air is just starting to fill the bubble and don't know when it pops. Everyone has its own opinion and are free to express what they wanted to say and so i have mine too. The only question here is "When does this bubble pops?"

No one cares. Someone out there will say it'll be 50k each in 2020, and others will say it'll collapse. The best part of this is that none of them have anything behind their predictions at all, and even if they did they're the exact opposite so obviously one is wrong. It's the ones thinking bitcoin will go down in price that will get blindsided.

People keep saying it's a bubble, but this isn't an accurate description of the
Bitcoin phenomenon even with seemingly disproportionate spikes and the inevitable dips to follow.
The phenomenon of Bitcoin will not be facing what economists call a bubble- unless the network
Comes under the control of one entity or power.  Otherwise it could be seen as a boiling pot of millions of individual bubbles because each p2p transaction is subject to its own microburst. That may not make sense right now... but it will in a few weeks.

In all sincerity, Bitcoin is on the rise indefinitely.

I think what they want to say is the bitcoins behavior can predict or be easily to see because of what happen to last price drop after the big pumped of the coins....
Dimon said that he will not talk again about cryptos we don't care with them just care what you have knowledge about coin..

i disagree with them because whenever they are talking about bitcoin price and how big it is right now they are just looking at the price and the size of it (% it has risen). but they ignore all the adoption that has been going on this year.

i am not denying the fact that this rise is much bigger than anticipated but when there is a growing demand for something the price rises like this. yes it may even enter a bubble territory but because of that growing demand when the correction for the bubble comes it won't be a "collapse" as they want to put it.

the funny part is that whenever they talk about the bubble they are talking about the price, and then follow up with the collapse but they no longer talk about the price they talk about bitcoin collapsing!


LOL

But I am afraid that's the way some people think.
A lot of investors, traders, are waiting for more regulations, the novices will always be scared to be scammed as it has happened many times in the past.
Now you see Bittrex and the likes asking for KYC, this is only the beginning IMO.
I am just afraid that one day Bitcoin loses its value simply because all its initial qualities that attracted many people are soon gone. Will the demand stay the same(or better, increase) if we are not anonymous anymore?

Gold hasn't been made illegal in the nearly two decades of the 21st century. Instead the price is being managed quite successfully. If you print the currency, you can buy high, sell low at a loss if it makes your own currency look better for quite a while.

I don't completely disagree with his statements here. Because without the proper AML and KYC norms, bitcoin can be easily used for illicit activities worldwide and terrorism financing due to the pseudo-anonymous nature. However, it's the duty of the government to provide a proper framework for us so that we can carry out trading and other related activities using bitcoin and report the transactions done by us. I am sure, a lot of people won't mind paying a small tax or providing the KYC documents to the exchanges to verify their profile. Because the majority of the bitcoin users are just normal people like you and me without any connection with criminal activities.

Politicians and governors try to regulate everything, even the way you think about many things.
So, I am not surprised about some posts around suggesting governments should regulate how to use Bitcoin and other blah,blah,blah ....
This propaganda makes people stop thinking about freedom and privacy.

Going this way, gov. should also regulate how you make s*x and how you should make a s*it in toilet.
Amen. :)
Regulate everything! including rise of the sun in the morning, as well.  ;D

we should enforce some sort of tax on those who speculate about bitcoin like this in public.

for example anybody who calls bitcoin's doom, call it fraud, calls it bubble that is going to burst into flames and die, ... and all kinds of weird shit, all of them should pay a fee every month that bitcoin stays alive and grows stronger and pay another fee for every $100 price rise.

we could use the funds to put billboard ads showing their faces and their failure to grasp how bitcoin works on highways and crowded places or even on TV each time that same person comes on :D

Lol, as amusing as that would be, it's unnecessary. It's better to just ignore them. If that's what they come up with their analysis, then good for them. They'll be dealing with the opportunity costs anyway.

Representatives of large banks or unions of banks, whenever possible, will always be negative about the crypto currency, because the crypto currency undermines the foundations of their centuries of the existing financial system, in which they effortlessly had billions in profits. Crypto currency can do without their banks, without their loans and this they can not like. Therefore among this group of financiers the most sharply and negatively speak out against the crypto-currency. All these statements will fade away as further implementation of the crypto currency into our lives and strengthening of the citizens' trust in it.

So what if it is a bubble? Everything’s a bubble. The US housing bubble lasted for 12 years and the Dot-Com bubble lasted 15 years. Stop worrying about it, keep raking in the cash from fools and ride the wave.

It is not news that bitcoin prize collapses, but the collapse is not permanent as whenever it collapses it then rises above the normal price and hits a new high

Well the richest prince of Arab also have said that the bitcoin price will collapse, but personally I didn't see anything go wrong with btc which is possibly makes the btc price will collapse. So what I was think is just go ahead with it and looking forward to an update information.

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.