Bitcoin Forum

Since many people try to convince us that Bitcoin is a bubble and how we will lose our money eventually, I wonder if money is not a bubble actually. There exist economies in which money has a positive value in spite its market fundamental is zero. That means fiat money has zero value. Fiat money is a social contrivance. We take money from other people because we know other people will take it from us. In theory and practice the fiat money is a bubble.

It is obviously a bubble, but is a bubble that is sustained by a monopoly in violence. You are forced to accept fiat money and you are forced to work for it, therefore the flow of such money is never ending.

People all over the world accept dollars no matter how much they print, and this will be the case as long as it is accepted.

Bitcoin attempts to create an asset that is of limited supply and global, and optionally accepted, which is the opposite of fiat. Sooner or later, all fiat currencies fail due their government's failing, and bitcoin since it has no government or country attached to it, with reap the benefits and reign as ideal (or the most ideal thus far) money.

It is the most inherent problem with money is that it has zero physical value, it's why there can be such problems when confidence goes and there is a run on a currency.

All money is created out of thin air these days. It has no tangible resource backing up its value. That makes monetary value purely fictional, yet everybody uses it. So yes, fiat is de facto a bubble.

It's hilarious to think about how the world actually works, it's complete nonsense and everybody believes that it isn't.

Value based exchange is backed by commodities. When that standard (similar to being removed from the gold standard) is removed from the equation, inflation and lack of control happens.

I came to this topic to laugh, but suddenly realized that I have to agree.

Not at all! Fiat money is not a bubble because they are mostly backed up by a physical asset like gold. Any country can't print unlimited amount of money to circulate in their economy. They can only print according to the value of their gold deposits. So the value of money is directly co-related with the price of gold and that's why Gold has been used as a safe investment vehicle since decades. One investor may not make much profit from holding gold, but it can certainly protect the capital investment.

On the other hand, bitcoin is not backed up by any physical asset. It is just backed up by the public trust which doesn't have any monetary value. It's just an emotional quotient. Bitcoin is riding high on positivity and that's why it's price is also increasing. So bitcoin can be called as a bubble, but not fiat.

If we look back into the past there was the .net bubble and also the Tulpen bubble. Before this happened then was probably thinking : "This is not a bubble". So stay and wait what will happen.

Except that the fiat bubble is controlled by the State. Whenever abnormal deviations occur in terms of currency exchange rates due to some event, the Government steps in to either restore confidence in the economy so as to stabilize the currency or will artificially devalue/increase the value of the currency. Btc doesnt have such a backing and works on thw whims of only market forces.

Fiat money at present are not backed by gold or anything. In 1971 Richard Nixon ended any remaining link between the dollar and gold. Today less than 5% of US dollars in circulation are ‘backed’ by gold, the rest backed by false promises and goodwill. It is same with the rest of the countries.

Ummm, Fiat = a formal authorization or proposition; a decree. That means fake because there there would not to be a decree if true value existed and demanded.

You're right, it's a bubble, but only in theory, why? Everything in the world is happening around it, it is money that determines the value of goods or services, without which we would not be able to control ourselves or know the value of products, and all these are set within the norm.

Money does not determine value. Value is perceived and relative. If money determined value (i.e. Gold) we'd all be using gold. And we were, but that changed. It's happening because of human emotion and hype.

We stopped using Gold because it's inconvenient and can't keep up with the demand for money.

I'm sure the FED, the US Gov't and the Bankers had nothing to do with taking us off the gold standard. It's not like it created any benefit's for them when that happened? Ever read creature from Jekyll Island?  ::)

In theory - everything is a bubble.  The question is whether it is deflating, or inflating.  Credit card debt, housing, student loans, USD/EUR/GBP.

We just have to figure out at what point does that bubble burst.  Much easier said than done ;)

It's not just one bubble. The US will never let that happen. It will be widespread panic, The thing to figure out is what will you do when your $ wont buy bread. That's what happens in communist countries that fall. Where will you go and what will you trade? Will the grocer accept BTC? Will he accept GOLD? Silver?

Fiat money is really a bubble, backing up by the government and declares the value of it. It's actually a paper that was mixed with some other ingredients to make it worthy and has it's value.

Especially those countries that are "leading" this world and making their economies on an innovative progress, tells the world that their economy should be followed.

And that makes their fiat money more valuable than others, it's a way to make them reliable than other countries.. The sad truth.

If it is a bubble, it's unlikely to be bursting anytime soon. Too many countries are still cash-focused, going to be hard to convince everyone in the world to drop years of transactionary habits because it's not real.

Actually, it's not that hard. All the IMF and FED banks outside the US have to do is to agree to exclude the $ as a reserve currency. War starts. Trouble starts. $ declines in value, everyone holding debt via $ lose their shirt.

Everything is a bubble or a ponzi scheme if we want to take it literally. Consider the banking system. it´s a gigantic world wide ponzi where the growing economies borrow and pay interest to te better established economies. And it relies on contiuous growth. When growth is alted there is a major retraction, banks bankrupting and governments printing adicional money to sustain it. The question is...How long can it endure? indefinitelly or will it burst exposing the bubble?

Economic and financial policy in this era is puzzling.

Apple is sitting on $256.8 billion usd:


What happens to apple's $256 billion if the federal government defaults on its $20 trillion dollar deficit and the value of the dollar plummets?

Bitcoin/crypto could well be a safer investment than either the dollar or the euro at this point.

It is possible that as deficit and default fears grow big corporations like google, apple, microsoft and others will seek to transfer their holdings to denominations of crypto as it may be more reliable than fiat like the dollar or euro.

They should create an edible Iphone in the next version so they don't starve. j/k Apple will be fine. They can use all those apple stores as dispensary locations.

I do not think fiat money is legal money that is fully controlled by the central bank and government, of course the government has special consideration to increase or decrease fiat money value.

It's only legal because they say it is. That's not the way it should be. We are way past that and we dont need to be told what is money. Each of us knows this.

It's a legal money because there is a government that supports it. How come if a fiat money that was produced by a stranger will become a legal money for the whole country? And the value is also depending to it's economy, how it's market is making, depending on gross domestic product per capita. The value doesn't portrays a special consideration but it's an indicator on how strong the economy of the country is.

I don’t know if the term bubble is the best to describe fiat, but I definitely agree that most fiat money has artificial value. US money for example is not backed by gold any more so the value is artificially set by the government. And they can just print as much as they want to. If the economy went into a depression, the fiat currency would be worth very little. At least Bitcoin has value based on a true free market.

Its fundamentals does not have a value of zero, the value of Fiat currency is in direct reflection of a country's economy as well as the supply and demand of the fiat currency. How can something be a bubble if the world markets are the one who are giving them a fair market value? It is hard for a country to make their fiat currency appreciate in value without making their country grow. Also being a medium of exchange for a country makes it really hard to give it an overvalued state.

Fiat money is a bubble? Why?!
In my opinion FIAT moeny can't be a bubble, because everyone use FIAT currency. We can actually buy a lot of things, and use that money in many good ways. If anything i would say that bitcoin may be a bubble, because we dont have a lot of opportunities to buy something for btc  and even if we finally have such a chance we just dont want to spend our BTCs, co the price increase again. So that type of money (bitcoin) maybe is a bubble, and fiat for sure is not a bubble.

I'm kinda curious now with the banks to be involved with bitcoin. So you mean that's a real role of banking system? The way you save your money through banks and it is a kind of borrowing? I'm not really into banking but that's really not clear to me. Actually,I tried saving to a bank for a month but I didn't borrow because obviously it was my savings. With regards to fiat money as a bubble,yes it is bit mind you eventhough it is a bubble but it gives us profit and that's worth it.

Fiat is not a bubble. It's just devalued.

That description you provided is not a bubble. A bubble is an asset price that rises far beyond the fair market value and eventually cashes. The fair market value of a dollar is literally a dollar. Even if the currency devalues, a dollar is still worth a dollar, so you cannot have a bubble of a currency that is denominated in that same currency. Fiat may have zeroni nherent value, but that doesn't make the value we assign to it a bubble, because it's relatively stable over time. That's quite the opposite scenario Bitcoin occupies presently where the value has zero inherent value but there are people who assign ever-higher values to it in a cycle of mania.

In my opinion fiat money is not a bubble because they are the national currency that is used on it of every country and in a fact that is the physical assets that corresponds to gold. Whatever the value of gold contains in a state or country reflects the amount of money circulates in the economy. That could be the basis of printing fiat money according to the value of there gold deposits.

How do you define a currency and a bubble? FIAT IS NOT A BUBBLE it is a currency same with Bitcoin, how come you can just spread fake assumptions without supporting information regarding to your claim?. FIAT money have been used for almost a hundred years, mind that. Mostly of fiat money's value are based on the gold reserve of that Country. Make sure to do your research first.

You have to do your research. Asset backed fiat money were abundant 40 years ago. At present every currency in the world is backed by gold less than 5% and many countries back their currencies by another currency.

Currencies in themselves are not the actual bubbles. When they are starting to be traded in exchanges then their value is subjected to the traders will. When coins go as collateral and then someone buys the ability to collect the collateral, then a certain amount of money costs more than it was before, for example study the home loans case in the US. These tactics, when used carelessly specially from banks, make a currency look like a bubble.

(if your post is directly to me) "Mostly" Which means? NOT EVERY CURRENCY. Do your duty to proofread and comprehend everything that you read online before rebutting to my post. And I agree to you that some of the country's currency is backed by another currency. Again, FIAT is not a bubble.

Agreed. Not a bubble. Just a massive inflationary scam. How else do you explain the 99% decrease in buying power.

In my part of the world banks strive on fees and mostly on lending. Its not the savings that support the business. Its a rule that banks must have a certain % of the money we put in available...like 10 or 15%. that is scary. And that system is fed through central banks with the lendings to developing countries with bigger economic growths.

now bitcoin almost a working currency therefore it is very liquid, other than being thrown away by government there is no other threat of bitcoin go away like other currency in the past, currency can never be in threat of total devaluation in a bubble situation because its always be exchangeable with good and services, like gold and silver, the price may fall to zero but the utility of bitcoin will remain, but in order for the price to fall to zero dollar you need to stop printing dollar which will not happen unless SDR is being introduced once SDR is introduced bitcoin will rise in SDR value again

if you look at USDBTC inverse of BTCUSD you normally refer to as bitcoin bubble, you can see that USD is losing values against bitcoin very rapidly, it means that USD or any fiat currency is not in bubble anymore because its already popped and now imploding. There is no chance this trend can be stopped because government and central bankers think that expanding monetary system is healthy and they need it supposedly to grow the economy, the truth is they want to steal peoples money, that will not end well

Well, increasing the monetary supply does help the economy. But ultimately money is worthless anyways... people are just pretending that they are working for money, while in reality they are doing their job for free and just hoping that someone else will do their job for free in a way that will help their lives. Money really is a very strange phenomenon...

You have good optimism with fiat but its naive to think that fiat currency can never become worthless, its devalued and devalued very rapidly and in no time it will become worthless because it is being canceled by mountain of debt its created in order to exist, expecially when there is better sound alternative currency compared to fiat gaining more mainstream adoption

Fiat currency is per definition worthless. The moment people stop giving a damn about "IOUs" the whole imaginary money system would collapse. I would love to see that happen just to see how it would play out to be honest.

You should remember that in order for new money being created they also created more debt, there will come time where all this debt have to be factored in the calculation in order to balance the book and thats the time they realized they actually broke and have no more money to spend, expanding the supply will just hurt the economy more, at that time people will realized how bad fiat money system is and value their asset into something more sound like crypto or better gold/silver

The book can not be balanced. There is always more debt than money in the world due to the nature of the system. This won't change until central banks start using negative interest rates either.

All fiat currencies are scam.

There is perhaps only one country in the world has 100% gold reserved for total money they printed.

So ruling party, central bank print money and they keep piles for them when people raise question why government want taxes when they can print money as much as they can the same old answer is if more money printed currency will be devalued. Ruling people fool common men giving same old example that 'if a family has 1 kilo gold and 10 members in family, now head of family holds that gold and makes 10 tickets and distributes among each family members which mean each ticket is worth 100 gram gold now if 10 more tickets created for same amount of gold and distributed to all family members then value of single ticket will become 50 gram gold so if you have 1 ticket or 2 tickets value will be same. This type of answers from economists and governors are heard since decades and common men believe it.

Now question is who knows if head of family created 1000 tickets and kept 991 by him?

And also gold or other assets are with him which he may have sold?

In my opinion currency notes are just printed piece of papers issued by governor and made people believe this is money.

They have imposed value of these printed piece of papers in people's mind, whether one wants or not he/she has to accept it as payment in corporate world.

In future may paper currency will not exist and only digital currencies will be accepted and our next generation will believe only digital cash is money.

Or maybe something more advance than digital money in future.

Let's watch, what new form of money is coming in future.

Fiat money is the slowest bubble of all time that is why people not recognising it as a bubble and we were never taught about Fiat money anywhere while we are in schools are college so government even didn't want us to know about it.

Fiat money is just fiat money.That what Central Banks are doing with fiat it is dangerous
Money creation done by banks that is bubble .Debt creation what is slavery tool .At the end people has pay debts banks never losing because Central Banks are printing next money and manipulating currencies.It is maybe why bitcoin is growing so fast because btc is kind of alternative money not manipulated by Central Banks

I guess that's one obvious difference, Central Banks can just print money, issued by the Government and regulated. So it is a bubble per se, as they continue to print more money out of thin air and there is a possibility that it will be worthless due to hyperinflation. While Bitcoin is limited in supply, with no central authority on top and also based on supply and demand. That's why Central Banks all over the world are against it because they can't really control unlike fiat wherein they can enslave their population with the debt creation paradigm.

maybe you are right. but since fiat money is known as one of the traditional guarantee currency, it is hard to say it is a bubble. I mean it can also be manipulated but it is not so easy to do it.

First of all, how many decades did fiat currency started to be used? If it is a bubble thing like bitcoin and cryptocurrency, therefore it may devalue. I don`t think that fiat currency is a bubble thing because the only one I know that we can compare to bubble is bitcoin. Because of its volatility and fluctuations, many traders speculate and coined bitcoin as bubble thing. However, it never become zero since it grows.

that's not the right definition of a bubble. But anyway, Bitcoin is really a bubble. If you don't understand it, I can explain it to you.
People say that BTC is a bubble, yes, they are not wrong. Because the value of Bitcoin is really not as high as its current valuation value.
In terms of technology, it is obsolete compared to new technology businesses, the time for money transfer is very long and the cost is very expensive. So where is it potential? Why is it so strong?
all is the whale's plan. They pump and dump bitcoin to make a profit and in fact BTC has no great value.

No, ordinary currency cannot be categorized as financial bubbles. The amount of paper money issued can be clearly calculated so that they relatively accurately reflect the amount of material assets in circulation and release paper money for this amount. Only when the government deliberately prints extra money, does inflation occur and can we partially speak of paper money as a financial bubble.

The paper money of the states is not a fraud or financial bubble. If used correctly, they greatly help to develop and strengthen the economy of the state and are very convenient for practical use. However, some governments abuse the right to print paper money and it hurts the economy, and an excessive amount of money causes inflation.

Fiat money is just a paper or coins. If you're just a naive kid, you'll probably think of it as nonsense thing even a toy. Why is it people, almost worship money and even make immoral just to have it? Because its value, in this world in order for you to survive one of the needs is money. Thus, money can become a bubble if people reach the contentment and satisfaction in life. Especially, when people realize the true meaning of being rich. However, that is economy, to answer the infinite demands of people.

I absolutely love the title and the discussion! Fiat was a bubble from the beginning - right after gold. Money itself is a bubble. It has value because people give it value.

Fiat is not a bubble initially. Traditional money is backed by gold. Certainly, in some countries it is like a bubble - governments simply print this paper all the time, and it is the straight road to the default.

Are you sure that traditional money is backed by gold? Why don`t you check again, the internet is full with many informations about that my friend. I agree with you about one thing, fiat wasn`t a bubble from the beginning, but somewhere along the way, it got corrupted. We had many economic crises and depressions in the past, what we didn`t have is crypto, now every economic crisis will make people turn to crypto, which will lead to the end of fiat.

Unfortunately the thing is this bubble supports only +/- 1-2% ups and downs therefore it actually shows a very less increase and decrease in the total mean value of that particular currency therefore it is a bubble but much less than Bitcoins.

As compared to Bitcoins , Bitcoins shows a lot of ups and downs and at the same time it is within seconds and is not related to anything like economy or anything else , therefore it is much more volatile .

afaik bubble means it dissapears but look at fiats now , they are still there  .  some cryptos can only be a good example of a bubble because after you invest on them their value wont go up anymore and worst they will only decline  .

bitcoin is also been accused for being a bubble after its value went up really high ( at 20k+ usd to be specific ) and then it goes down pretty quick   . however bitcoin is recovering so its safe to say that its not a real bubble  .

yes fiat bubble is not risky even if it explodes it won't make too much loss. All things whose values move are called bubbles and each bubble is determined by the high or low fluctuating value. But it all depends on the buyer, whether they like safer bubbles or bubbles with great risk and high reward.

It's not money that they printed as it's not a store of value, it's currency. Currency may be a bubble and it may be useless as what we have seen right now in some countries.

The thing is that every currency eventually will bring forth bubbles. With fiat currency, you have a higher chance of this happening due to its unlimited supply, and even more so, when their value is derived from factors such as the stability of the issuing government. On the other hand, and although it´s not immune to bubbles, currency tied to commodities tends to be much more stable due to their limited supply. So, you can say that fiat currency still has a perception-based value, since it’s valid due to a necessity of keeping the current economic system wheel going, and that it can create bubbles that depending on the country they eventually burst...

Technically you are right, FIAt is constantly generated out of thin air.
but there is a huge difference between crypto and fiat, fiat is very strictly controlled and regulated and has enormous liquidity.

Bitcoin is not supported by any physical assets. Unlike the case with Fiat money backed up with gold or other assets. If a country prints fiat money carelessly and does not match the value of deposits in the bank, it can cause inflation. Like in Venezuela. Bitcoin is only supported by public trust that has no monetary value. If Bitcoin gets high trust, the price also increases. So bitcoin is better referred to as a bubble.

But fiat is strictly controlled by who created it but if it is crypto it is controlled by the people who uses it so one who want to use will decide whether its worth or not and also cryptos cannot be created out of thin air but fiat money does.

Someone said what email did to post offices, crypto will do to fiat. Crypto is better in everything, more secured, faster transaction, no need for third party services, that`s a huge difference! All fiat currencies are created and controlled by governments and banks, inflation is known problem in the world and my countries suffered a lot from inflation, there are numerous examples for that. Fiat is a bubble and that bubble burst several times in the past, we had great depressions and we know what happens after. We had many economic crisis in the past, I believe it will happen again, it`s just a question of time.

All the country in this world has inflation issues which means we are keep losing the value of our money every year gradually but government still says that fiat money is secured and bitcoin is highly risky.

If cryptocurrencies becomes more popular among the common people then we might have no reason to use fiat.

Why should it want to be supported by physical assets? It is already backed by so many things. The scarcity factor. The security that is almost impossible to hack. The fact that it can never be taken away, it can never be reversed, it can never be falsified.

Fiat has all of these weaknesses AND is not even any longer backed by gold or other assets!

Well, to me everything and anything can be a bubble. All of us humans are bubbles since we will not last forever in this Earth we are in...the same thing with the fiat currency as no single currency from the past remained to be existing except for gold that is why this is considered to be the most stable and the safest haven among all investment tools available. Right now, we have Bitcoin which is likened by many to be the Gold 2.0 and due to its assumed scarcity (fixed supply) the value should be increasing as the demand rises. Is Bitcoin also another bubble? I would rather compare Bitcoin to the rising phoenix.

there is no country use gold standard (backed by gold) anymore
issuing fiat money is no longer based on the amount of gold owned by a country
now gold is used as financial asset to hedge or stabilize one country's economy

imo, fiat can be said a buble because it doesn't have fundamental value, zero value
it becomes a legal tender and has value just because it is issued and backed up by current government
if the country falls (or government failed), what we called fiat currency will turn into a worthless piece of paper

   Governments are manipulating with fiat currencies since ever. We all know that this fiat system created by governments and banks suits rich families
that are getting richer, while all others are slaves. It`s not the same as before, now situation is much worse than ever before, with gold standard
they had some boundaries at least. Cause of the greediness this banking system will fail, they will not be able to print money as they want forever!

In reality they were printing more money every year which is the reason why inflation rate of many countries keep increasing. But government has no valid reason to say whether inflation rate increases but they keep blaming heir citizens not paying the taxes and for not doing their work and the right way.

Of course, many users do not like to hold paper in their hands instead of gold or silver.  Of course, the banking system and government agencies came up with paper money to make financial calculations simpler for a person.  Of course, Fiat can be considered a bubble, but nevertheless, each currency is assigned an appropriate amount of gold reserves of the country whose currency this Fiat is considered to be.

While crypto may outrun fiat in the long run you really can't say its a bubble. They have a monopoly in the world. Every single one is basically forced to accept cash paymets. the process of payments will definitely change but money will stay till the states and banks says so..

Fiat money is based on the laws of economic development of society and is not a financial bubble. Fiat can partially become a financial bubble and cause inflation if the government abuses the laws of the economy and prints more paper money than the amount of increased gold and foreign exchange reserves of the state and its gross domestic income.

It may be a bubble, but it is going to be the strongest bubble no one can easily burst it. Fiat money is intrinsically nothing. But it has become everything because it has the sanction of the government. It is fully backed up with clear stipulations in constitutions. It has the approval and agreement of domestic and international companies big and small, and generally everyone. That is enough to make it very precious so much so that it has become life itself to many.

I think fiat money is not a bubble because they have back up by the government, and the government will do their best to protect their currency. As long as the government can control their fiat and they have huge money to protect, it won't be a problem and fiat will still stable. I don't have any idea of fiat money is a bubble or not because fiat money is different than gold and bitcoin, although they have the same purposes to help people.

The gold prices are up by 20% during the last three months, and that is bad news for the fiat currencies around the world. There are confirmed reports that countries such as Russia and China are dumping their US treasury bonds in favor of gold. If Russia and China are doing this now, there is no guarantee that the other countries will not follow suit in the future.

Money that is centralized will always end up becoming a bubble since sooner or later those who control the money will end up becoming greedy and issue way too much money leading to asset inflation (like inflated stock and real estate prices) and in turn a collaps. That's why btc is the savior.

Even though fiat currencies have been dominating all over the world for past many years, I think its time that now is the time that this currency will slowly be eliminated for the digital currencies.
Gold cannot replace the fiat currencies but bitcoin will completely replace the fiat one day.

This. Bitcoin is like gold without the transportation issues.

Why would anyone call fiat money "the bubble"?
Can the money be worth more or less? Yes it can butt that is not the reason to call it a bubble because what ever happens money will still be there, it doesn't matter if you live in mountains or somewhere in the city where are people and banks around and you can utilize that money in every day life.

If the systems as we know it  collapse, crypto will be worthless,  same as the fiat money and I think people are delusional if they think anything else.

In case of major electricity breakdown, you could still go out and buy food and medicine with paper money, but can you do anything with crypto without internet and electricity? ::)

Banks simply called as inflation but the reality is there printing more money than what they are supposed to do, if the inflation rate increases a lot then the economy of the country will collapse like Venezuela if people become more smarter then they will adopt to the decentralized payment which can save their value of money going into the hands of few people.

This exactly why we have created bitcoin, don't get me wrong the original idea and execution came from Satoshi Nakamoto and they did some bug changes and all that but we are the ones that created bitcoin, after all we gave it what importance it should be, without us users bitcoin worths zero and has no utility at all but the more we use the more we adopt it the more it becomes something important.

Fiat money can't be sustainable, they need to keep printing more and more of it in eternity, if the money system continues like this eventually one house will be 1 billion dollars, one chewing gum will be couple thousand, maybe not now but in 100-200 years its quite possible. That is why I think you should definitely be worried about fiat and move your money to crypto as much as you can afford.

Fiat money is a bubble for a long time. If we go way back, there were no money, just trading one goods for other, but it was very inconvenient, for example, if you need wheat but you have meat and milk and the owner doesn't need that, he needs salt, so you need to trade goods to salt first and etc. Later everyone agreed to use some Ishango bone as a currency, later gold and precious metals were used instead. Currency was backed up on something. Right now, money are being printed right out of thin air and isn't backed up on anything (earlier yes, Dollars were based on gold and you could buy gold with one dollar anytime), central banks are controlling inflation and the value of money is the global acceptance, but they're just paper and bites recorded in some server right now. Federal National Reserve can print as much money as they wish.

BTC is the other story, because it isn't backed by anything, just the belief of people, but no one can copy, create or fake them, that's what makes crypto so special. I would rather choose currency which isn't controlled by anyone (with huge risk for it's price to fall) than government printed money.

I hope that one day we are not going to discuss that countries back their currencies with Digital gold and not traditional gold.
China and Russia dump US treasury bonds because they have shaped an alliance which is against the US policies. If other countries that are allies with the US , such as the UK, will start dumping US treasury financial products then this would be an interesting case to observe its consequences.

Hi... nice posting , I agree with you that FIAT is real bubble after FED regulation money without backed by gold.
I believed bitcoin and gold value keep growing and beat old system banking.
 ;D

Since it is based on (abused) trust, nearly blind trust... would say it is a big and no longer sustainable bubble.
See this world money map for big picture
https://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/
https://i.imgur.com/Az145LB.jpg

You see, the derivatives are a mesh already...
so much room to grow for Bitcoin.

Due to the issues of fiat and its centralized economy, it is actually a very good idea to hold physical assets like gold and silver which is very important to diversify into when thinking of investment for the future. These assets are what will be there for any one that invested in it in case of economy collapse.  It is more reliable metal that people can fall back on when other means of payment cannot work like fiat and co.

Gold and silver have their volatility too, especially gold, but it can still be very reliable for future, but bitcoin will actually be the best to hold on in this type of situation that the article talked about, and I know that very soon, people would prefer to hold bitcoin as digital gold to other means like the physical gold because of its simplify and reliability.

I mean to emphasize that whether this community will agree that fiat is a bubble or not, we must move on to bitcoin for the reason of diversification while investing. Bitcoin is still at its early stage which is good for adopting it and most bitcoin investors are adopting it for their own reasons which includes considering fiat is a bubble :).

If fiat money is a bubble then this bubble lasts really long time.
I know that some had ideas how Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies will replace fiat but I think by know everyone knows this is not going to happen. Fiat money will continue to exist and the economies around the world will continue to depend on them. Still that doesn't mean that cryptocurrencies will not develope further and become more and more accepted, just not instead of fiat money.

 The whole economy is a bubble. And bubble here to stay

It is just an over exaggeration to really believe that cryptocurrency will replace fiat, we all know that it would be impossible, it is just all part of the hype, and the truth is what has been stated by you here, but as described in the Nakamoto paper, it is meant to serve as a currency, and one that would be an alternative to the fiat, so if anyone is finding it difficult to make a transaction through fiat, then they move over to cryptocurrency to see if it would make it easy.

It is from there that each and every one of us would decide in which system is beast for us, and this is the main reason why it has limited supply. It is not a system for everyone, but for those who would take it as an easy means of transacting money. It would only help better the system of payment.

I think you have a wrong perception about fiat money. It is called fiat money because money is printed only based on trust in the government and has been released from the value of gold. If you mean that our money is taken by someone else, it happens because of buying and selling or trading. Fiat money becomes buble because it is always printed without collateral except trust.

Indeed, for many fiat money is a "bubble" ;)
But which long-term complex economic system isn't?
Its about how long they last until they are replaced with something more intricate and complex.
So far the Bretton Woods / oil-backed USD / debt-fuelled model has held. Cracks were forming before cryptocurrencies showed up. More are showing faster than they can be fixed.
Cash is being digitally "printed" like crazy, while paper bills are being slowly discontinued. An opaque game of numbers.
With all its flaws, cryptocurrency is the path forward for greater accountability, freedom and transparency.

And bitcoin is perhaps the best possible way to short that bubble

Bubble in the sense that it can't be contained for a long time is actually correct. It is a bubble that is supported by the governments of the world and backed by them so it is taking a long time to burst but if you look at what makes something bubble and look at what is fiat currency you will realize there is a lot of common grounds.

Fiat currency is keeps getting printed more and more, hell we had 800 billion printed to save the companies in 2008 so that we wouldn't be bankrupted, having 800 billion printed destroyed the economy for a long time but at the same time if USA didn't do that it would have been much much worse for the world. Hence fiat is a bubble that is waiting to be burst eventually because it is unsustainable for the long term but without any alternative (hopefully bitcoin will be one) there is not much people can do and will continue with fiat.

Period. That last part of your statement was exactly the same line of thought of satoshi when he created the technology of cryptocurrency, it was meant to only serve as alternative and even the store of value part is also meant to an alternative to other existing store of value like gold and silver and not to replace them totally.

But, we are the ones that has misconstrued it and make it seems like its purpose was to completely replace the system of government which makes them think it is a technology that would disrupt the financial system of government meanwhile the technology is only meant to assist those who are suffering from the problem that bitcoin has proffered solution to including the entire government system itself.

If you think about it, almost all the financial systems of the world are bubbles, with more or less high stability. The more active the bubble, the more resources it requires, the more difficult it is to supply it, which means that sooner or later it must burst. And as a rule, after this, a new bubble appears, and so on in a circle.

Iny own personal view every currency is a bubble as long as it can be traded on the stock exchange and the ability to go against other currency which can result in it losing it value at every point in time. So not only bitcoin that can be term a bubble all currency can also be refer to as a bubble.

Fiat money is not a bubble, because there is a central authority that takes decision according to the money circulation required. Always there will be reserve maintained in every country's central banking authority to stay away from recessions. The fiat money gets to be a bubble when there is more fiat into circulation than required. In specific this happens when there is surplus in the printing of currencies without proper monetary policies. At present USA and China have engaged in these kind of activities.

it is , but only since the gold standard was abolished
the banks are printing as much money as the governments are willing to buy from them and that could be any figure , really
fiat money have as much value as we are willing to pay for it , if you take Venezuela's bolivar , for example
it does have value , yet its inflation rate almost broke the zimbabvian record , reaching 1,000,000% by the end of the year according to IMF
same goes for the US dollar , as long as it is accepted across the globe it has some value , in reality the country has 21 trillion debt which i more than the total money supply

FIAT is not a bubble because the price of FIAT does not fluctuate too large, and it is always stable with low volatility. Everything will become a bubble if their prices rise too quickly in a short time. Failure to control the price movement will make everything a bubble.

Why raise this hype, which is aimed at informational propaganda against fiat currencies?  With such success, you can blame cryptocurrency, but you must understand that not all members of our society are able to use cryptocurrency in everyday life.  I believe that the adaptation of humanity to cryptocurrency will take quite a long time.

The fiat money is certainly a bubble, as has been demonstrated over and over again in the course of our civilization.
But we forget that it is our very existence that is a bubble: everything is born, lives, ages and dies.
The important thing is to take advantage of what we have right now.
If it's a bubble, that's ok... :)

When a country collapses, the pile of paper money that they keep will only be equivalent in value to the pile of used newspapers, due to the economic bubble that breaks into recession and a prolonged monetary crisis. the safest is gold, because we buy crypto with money, and we sell crypto to get money. crypto and  fiat money are interrelated

The ideology behind the creation of fiat money was created by man and the same man decided to work for it. The value it has is because man has decided to accept it in every way and this makes it a big bubble which never burst. Its supply and demand is never ending as long as man long for physical things.

Yes fiat money has its problems no doubt, but even Bitcoin which was created for something which is truly novel is manipulated through pumps and dumps. Gradually more and more control is going into the hands of a smaller group of people. No matter how altruistic one person might be in their endevours to solve the worlds problems, greed will always win in this world. It is the sad truth, humans are just designed that way. Our biological instinct is to always try and win (be alpha, or survive)

However, it is a bubble that is backed by the government. You can't call something like fiat currency a bubble, bubble is something that gets super expensive for no reason at all and than it goes down and I mean goes down like A LOT. For example, the most known bubble was tulipmania and in that the price of one tulip bulb went as high as houses and than it dropped to so low that you could buy a whole basket of it for couple dollars.

Now, fiat can't be like that, what do you think will happen, buy a house for 10 dollars but than house worths a billion dollars one day? No, 100 years ago houses were cheap and you could get one for couple hundred bucks but now it worths millions of dollars thats true, but it took 100 years, thats called inflation not a bubble.

anything can happen fiat currency with bubbles but the government will quickly break the bubble and of course the government has prepared anticipation with the system used in a country's economy because fiat currency is definitely legal and there is protection against everything that happens with the eye fiat money

Very well explained dude :). The title of this is very ironic to be honest. How come the fiat is a bubble when in it is less volatile in the first place. If OP said crypto is a bubble then I'll be more likely to believe it. Fiat currencies' price do not make sudden fluctuations and not also not as big as what crypto did. When I was watching news, I noticed that rate exchange usually updates every couple of weeks or month.

Yeah, it is a bubble, but a very sophisticated highly qualified and decent bubble that will not burst for centuries or until a new mode of payment is accepted against whatever we trade in the world.


That's because it is recognized among people whether nationally or globally. It is pegged and has limited fluctuations in comparison to each until some extremely bad conditions occur and make the currency fall badly against the other worldwide currencies.


Come on, in today's world, it's all about show-off and following what others do. You won't even purchase a detergent or soap or anything high-end or low-end whatsoever till you see someone else doing it and then coming to you telling you that, "Hey, that soap's awesome, ya need to try it out". That's the case with money but, money has got Reserve Banks to save their back and keep their values stable apart from the fluctuations because they've got the right to print them no matter what.

In its concept, Fiat can be said to be a bubble where the concept is higher than the fundamental value. It's just that the fiat value depends on the country's economic sector and is an investment of assets. Whereas cryptocurrency like bitcoin is of high value and very different from the fundemental value and the determinant of value is demand, bitcoin is a bubble.

because we know fiat currency is a centralized currency in which the government holds control. as long as the government is still able to overcome its economic problems, then I think it will be fine and there is nothing to worry about

Of course fiat money is a bubble and it is bound to burst as well. We cannot just fullfil recent experienced to future. We cannot as well assure that the government have the potential to maintain the economic resources while producing loads of money and besides it will run dry in the end as the payments, funds and transactions has to be made digitally.

I think worth of anything is derived either from the utility provided by it or due to the demand created by that thing. Actually having intrinsic value is merely for shares and not for other securities. I mean look at gold it has no intrinsic value and as of in this century has no utility too. But it's costly due to it's demand. Moreover, if we look at fiat that too has value due to it's demand which is created by the trust of people. It won't end until the trust of people end. Similarly bitcoin too is in the same league. It has no intrinsic value to be very blunt. It's deriving it's value due to the demand it is creating around. It's utility do has some contributions it's price but 9300$ for this sort of utility is damn too expensive and we all know that so most of the price is due the demand.

Government says "Hi"


It is the only trick they have in their hands to control the whole country. They are making people's head go round with it, even if it is nonsense, it makes us live and survive in this society which is survival of the fittest, and I admit it, it is completely nonsense, we're on a nested loop.

I can agree to your statement because if we are going to carefully analyze it, we can see fiat money as just a social construct made by people thousand of years ago. It can be meant for peace but most likely, I can see it as a mean to show power. Up until today, we are still unaware of the fact that earning fiat makes us slaves of those in the higher positions, specially in the government. We keep on working hard just to pay our survival everyday while those in the position are earning from us as they raise the prices and expenses of everyone so better think twice if it's right to stick to fiat still when we have an option, the cryptocurrency.

After the invention of bitcoin and altcoins, fiat is destined to die in the future. We are living in a world where technology is making progress by leaps and bounds. Upcoming generations are more interested in performing all sorts of tasks with digital tools. Digital currencies are the future of money and bitcoin will remain the king of them all. Governments will introduce their own crypto coins.

We are not 100% sure about that,  but a lot of influencers and successful business men such as Ellon Musk says fiat is going to disappear in the future (though there is no specific date) about it. Technology is evolving, very fast, many inventions are being made every single day across the globe and digital money as a currency worldwide is not a blur vision anymore, we could grab it anytime soon.

This is absolutely not a given. Crypto currencies still have many many challenges to overcome before they can challenge fiat currencies. Crypto is still in its infancy and is still very much an experiment.

The biggest problem that has yet to be solved IMO is scaling. At this moment there is no blockchain that can handle even 1/10th the transactions that VISA is doing. The technology just isn't there yet. And there is no certainty that it will ever get there. Maybe cryptocurrencies are at its core just flawed and outright can not be scaled up due to some limitation. If that is the case than it will never replace fiat currencies.

Then there is also the government. Governments will do everything in their power to stop their own currency from losing dominance, if they lose their money they lose their power, which is the last thing they want.

If crypto currencies have been able to overcome the challenges of past then they can beat any sort of hurdle placed in their way. With bitcoin as their leader, crypto currencies really do not need to worry about anything. Blockchain is still too young but the idea is amazing and VISA cannot give us the same security. All the governments will turn towards crypto currencies once China will launch its digital coin.

That's not how it works though. You can not predict the future based on passed data. Inductive reasoning doesn't always work. Technologies have inherent limitations, saying crypto will overcome challenges because it was able to do so in the past is simply false. That's like saying the sun will keep burning forever because it has always done so in the past, but that is not true, one day the sun will stop burning.

There's a good chance that crypto will overcome its problems and I believe that it will, but there is no way to know that and anyone claiming otherwise without showing proof is lying.

Yeah, fiat money really a bubble and one of the disadvantage it's inflation. You can collect a lot of money but is it have a sense if by twenty years your money will lose a half of value on this money. So, you must know it and not only collect money but also invest and generate more and more money that inflation can't "eat" your money.

The future predictions in such cases do depend on the past performance of something. Bitcoin is not like gambling where the outcomes are unpredictable in every shot. It has proved its strength. Sun wont burn forever neither is this world predicted to stay forever as per scientists but as long as our planet will exits, bitcoin will exits too. We are moving towards an era of pure technology, digital currencies and blockchain will take place of fiat.

Fiat money have positive value without inflation, using cash money only available for one year later with the same value but with crypto as currency you can increase higher value after one year late, bitcoin never have inflation way to make their bitcoin value down like cash or fiat currency payment, they always to give negative information with bitcoin become bubble currency for investors.

policy controls related to government investment can optimize the rate of inflation development, this will save many developed countries and some developing countries, but unfortunately not to other countries. The concept of fiat bubbles is not entirely true because there is socioeconomic control so it is not broken and is always monitored institutionally, and the concept is actually still very potential for bitcoin.

Don't forget that some fiat money is secured in gold and in gems. So it's not so easy to say it's a bubble.
However, everyone know that governments are still printing fiat money, and unfortunately this is very dangerous for the global economy.

I once found a country that was affected by inflation because the country printed its banknotes with a very large amount and was not controlled so as to make the country become devastated and the exchange rate was very severe, so in my opinion if more money was printed then it would make fiat money would affected by inflation.

Basically yes, but of course it depends on how much money they print. Ecomomists know that printing money is possible (it is never safe for country's economy) when exports increase. Then printing money allows country to increase imports. Such behavior only theoretically increases the development of the country's economy. Because it increases the danger that when the export falls, the country will be with a surplus of money. This has happened recently in Argentina and made there huge inflation.

Perhaps that country are no longer handled very well by the government. I believe that there is a law that applies to every country that certain money supply should be applied and if ever the money is being updated (changing its design and whatsoever), it'll need to dump and destroy the money being replaced so that they'll be able to create a new design for money which must have the same value as the previous one.

Of course, the change of the banknote's image or the exchange of damaged banknotes is strictly controlled. However, there are countries that do not worry too much about the amount of money they print - of course I am thinking about the USA. Unfortunately, but the US dollar is the guiding currency of the world and if the US prints dollars, the rest of the world must also print money to be able to match the level. And this is the bubble we should be afraid of.

Unless the Chinese government will make its own country self sufficient and not export-oriented, then they can say "check". But this will make the infamous Black Thursday a child game.

Right at the point! In my opinion, this is the biggest economic problem that is being created right now. However, it also depends a lot on the European Union, and I think that the US is not afraid to create this money bubble just because it is certain that the EU will not take the side of the communist state. This is a very interesting but also dangerous political and economic situation for the world economy.

We will see how the situation will develop, because right now we are in a stale-mate, like during the cold war with risk of M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction).

Yes i agree with you because fiat money don't have any tangible value and are not backed by any physical store of value like gold thesedays which makes its value less but they are legal system supported by governmemts and without them there is no value of goods and services in global market.The worle operates only on the base of fiat money so its quite controversial.

I have the same feeling that something is going on like the (economic) Cold War. Still, countries that have the largest army dictate economic conditions. That is why I said that if a fiat money bubble exists, it is created by the USA, because they have the largest army.
I don't think anyone would ever want to check it out, but it is in a way keeping the rest of the world in check.

Its not a bubble because its value don't seem to skyrocket and pop. It only bubbles due to its infinite supply but the value keeps on inflating and not backed by anything. Bitcoin is the real money with proof and hard to faked fiat money should be inspired by it.

In fairness with fiat money, this cannot be a bubble because it was backed by the government's central bank. With centralized fiat currency, regulation made it strong and won't crash easily unlike bitcoin whose character was volatile. Bitcoin as decentralized currency, was operating without the government's control. When there's a bubble they cannot take actions directly, because the system is running through blockchain technology.

Well, It's a bubble obviously. They want you to accept fiat money and you need to work hard in order for you to be able to earn it. On the other hand, bitcoin tries to create limited supply which is opposite to fiat. There is no government attached to bitcoin and soon it will rise all over fiat money. Because of the demand and supply of Bitcoin will make bitcoin expensive or high value when the supply decreased, whereas, fiat money can not.

The fiat banknotes are more like promissory note. Here in India, in the ₹ 2,000 banknotes, it is printed like this:

"I promise to pay the bearer the sum of two thousand Rupees"

The value of that banknote is promised by the central bank. I agree that the banknotes are no longer backed up with gold, but what this means is that fiat currency is not a bubble and it has some value guaranteed against it. If you have fiat money, then you can exchange it to other assets such as gold and silver, as the central bank is guaranteeing its value.

The central bank guarantees that the value of a banknote with a face value of 2000 is 2000, but it does not guarantee what for this value can be purchased. The bubble is created by printing new banknotes. Simply by increasing supply, the purchasing power of money automatically decreases. In other words, you can buy less items for the same value. Value is not changing, but power of value is lower.

I think they only believe that it was bubble cause they believe that when it become huge like a bubble or I mean the price will be more expensive then it will die sooner I think that is they want to say for that bitcoin is like a bubble.

You can't predict a future but you can make a theory on it so it is depend on a people if they believe on it or not.

You don't even know it for yourself if it is a bubble or not by saying two statements that contradicts each other to make things complicated and unclear, although your second sentence sums it up already, it is a bubble because clearly fiat doesn't have anything on its back to prevent inflation that's cause currency devaluation, if that is not a bubble to you, I don't know anymore what bubble's look like to you.

At present, doubtlessly, fiat has its own place and it is playing the role of medium of exchange. Governments are still using it but this wont remain the case forever. If not earlier, then later all the countries will be releasing their own digital coins and accept the existing coins too. Bitcoin is already legal in few countries now. With time, systems get revolutionized and now it is the money system that needs to be changed.

I agree with you that fiat lives on a bubble. Money and btc base their price on trust, while hearing trust money will be worth something, but when that is over their value may be nonexistent.

Any currency, stock or anything of value that can be measured by money is a bubble. The price of any valuable thing can be artificially increased, thereby creating a price bubble for it. I think that everything that is bought and sold in one way or another can be called a bubble. Think the crux of the is clear. In a market economy, where the seller is free to make any price of his goods, price fluctuations are almost everywhere. Not spared this phenomenon and the markets of currencies, stocks and cryptocurrencies. Asset prices can indeed be manipulated.

Basically, there are three types of real money: commodity, representative, and fiat. The commodity is gold, silver, and copper. the representative is paper money that is backed by gold, 100$ of representative money is equals to 100$ worth of gold. And the fiat, which we are using now is just backed by faith. Basically, the fiat is just literally a paper and has no value at all. So you are right! Fiat is just backed by faith and no real-world value, unlike bitcoin, which is based on supply and demand.

Though I can’t say that some fiats aren’t really back by anything because a long time ago a country could only produce fiats based on their gold and silver results and I I remember correctly the US government had passed a law to untie the fiat from the country’s reserve. So the question might be, where does the fiat get its value from? Is it from the trust of the people? Or rather the circulation keeps going on and on since it had already taken a deep root in our society that some countries don’t need to back their fiat of something to stabilize its price?

Bubble is something that is going to pop out soon, hence disappearing forever and the future of fiat is no different. It will be leaving us soon. As digital currencies are here with us, these are the future of money. Not everything is bubble. There are altcoins that turned out to be bubbles but then there exist altcoins that have become essential to hold for future’s sake. Prices do change but it should not  kill something that is not bubble.

In one way what's been mentioned seems to be the reality of the fiat or the paper money. Same time considering the other part of printing money it is printed with some backing source. With bitcoin we have demand to supply with limitations while with fiat the same but there isn't any limitation. The limitation is set based on the prevailing economic condition.

I would not call FIAT to be a bubble due to several reasons:

First, the whole fiat system is managed by the government through the Central Bank. They manage the inflation, check the necessary prices in the market, and adjust the following depending on their research and data;

Second, the value of fiat depends on the number of gold reserve the country has. Depending on the reserves the value of fiat may exceed the proportionate of its gold reserves but it would render its value useless; and

Third, fiat is centralized in nature which is accepted as the universal medium of exchange. If it were a bubble, then its value would be significantly large.

For a long time, fiat money has not been secured by gold or anything else, except maybe the faith that the central bank knows what is doing.

The American Central Bank no longer hides the fact that it is still printing dollars and does not intend to stop doing this.

And stocks market is a bubble too. The whole market is a bubble. Thats a typical situation

In fact, all financial markets are somewhat dependent on each other and interacting in some way, so there is a lot of truth in what you wrote. However, we are talking here about the fact that Central Banks manipulate money (they print money, adjust interest rates to their own needs, etc. ) and it can end very badly at any time. When the bubble bursts in the world will become what happened recently in Argentina.

Of course, bitcoin is a bubble, fiat is a bubble ... in fact, everything that exists on the planet is a bubble and is destined to die sooner or later.
Even the planet itself ...
So instead of creating alarmism, we try to take advantage of the "bubbles" before they burst.
Life is short... :)

When the global crisis arrives, cryptocurrencies will be the perfect instrument to escape from a decline in value, because is not based on import and export. It is not known, when the fiat money bubble will burst, because the US Central Bank is still printing dollars on which the world economy is based. It will happen someday, but it may take many years...

Wassup yall. new in here. What does it take to get an altcoin published? er? whatever?

Definitely, Fiat is also a form of Bubble, if inflation is true then obviously Fiat is related to the bubble. when you have money for the deposit purpose then this value of money will decrease so the capacity of your money must lessen, in this sense, every form of money is more or less bubble, but the perception about Bitcoin is getting changed day by day, people still have a shallow idea about platform and this is why they are talking about negativity of this platform, they only compare with fiat money but they even don't know how it could help for the personal as well as whole economy. time will explain about the real scenario of Bitcoin.

Everything here might depend on the country. If we speak about Venezuela and Turkey, their national currencies resemble a bubble too much. The USA dollar is far from it. Euro is also the currency, which is stable. I do not mention here pound, which still remains one of the most respected currencies in the world.

Gold and silver will be another way to protect yourself from the crisis that is coming, unfortunately many people are living paycheck to paycheck and do not have any money left to invest, that would be bad enough but most people that I know are slaves to the bankers and they just do not know it, they are indebted and they will probably be this way for the next 20 years if not for life and they seem to live in the assumption that the system cannot fail.

And we know this is not true, we have seen the economy of single countries fail spectacularly just in the last decade and it is likely the fiat system will fail as well at some point in the future and yet they have no way to protect themselves from this obvious danger.

Talk about what is better security - gold or Bitcoin, has been going on for years. But in my opinion, you can't just stand for one of them. I think that the best form of escape in the event of a financial crisis is diversification in several different independent ways: gold, Bitcoin, real estate, works of art, diamonds, and may be even less known forms, such as stamps. The more of them the better. But ofcourse it all depends on form of the crisis. For the fiat money crisis for sure Bitcoin will be the best form , because his value will be rising proportionaly to the dump of fiat value.

Diversifying the way you protect yourself in the case of a crisis is a good idea but historically people have used precious metals to protect themselves from the mismanagement of the economy by the governments simply because it has too many advantages over the rest of the methods, for example if you try to use real estate to protect yourself you'll find out that one of the assets that begins to lose value immediately in the middle of a crisis is real estate.

And there are many other problems with real estate, you need a lot of money to buy it on the first place, it is not mobile so your wealth is tied to a particular place, it can be subject to vandalism and in the case of a crisis it can be very difficult to sell.

if you understand like that. I think everything is bubble. You will lose your money when something you have can't use. Bitcoin has value because of its benefits, because of its usefulness. and when Bitcoin is useless. then the value will be lost. same as money, when it is broken, it has no value. clothes, tv, motorbike, etc. so something we have is of value, because it has benefits. so we live on something that is essentially 0.

even though everything is 0 we also have to have a strategy so that we don't live at 0, if you lose everything then what is your destiny ?,
I think that we should call a bubble there is a crypto currency, especially bitcoin, bitcoin broke during ATH in 2017, and now it's hard to pump,
that's a fact, but I'm sure everyone here hopes that the bubbles will come again before breaks in the future

No, Fiat currency is exceptional. Money these days are printed out of thin air that literally has no value at all but the government declared to us its monetary value. America could print USD as much they want without affecting its value. All we have is representative money, we don't have commodity for our money like gold or any tangible precious things, it is classified as separated value now.


Absolutely, we are running after money yet it does not contain any value. It makes me think that being rich is just an illusion. Money is an illusion. Isn't it the reason why we have crypto?

The same can be said about any asset, including gold. What if I say that gold is just like any other metal and it is not worth anything? The value of a particular asset arises from its scarcity. The fiat currency is also scarce, when we take in to account the number of people using them. It may be an illusion, but the central banks are very good in maintaining that illusion.

If there is one characteristic that I will never use to describe fiat currencies is that they are scarce, the big problem of fiat currencies is that governments cannot stop printing them and creating huge piles of them for no reason at all, however something is not valuable only because it is his scarce there must be demand for it, and in order for that demand to exist at all then that something needs to have a set of characteristics that people find useful.

And fortunately for us bitcoin is useful, not only it is a decentralized currency, it allows you to be your own bank, it cannot be printed it will, governments cannot control it and you can move it very cheaply all around the world.

maybe the meaning of bubbles can be interpreted in various ways, but in my opinion the bubble in the economy means something that suddenly jumps and falls. and in my opinion fiat cannot be equated with bubbles in cryptocurrencies, because in fact they are more stable in buying goods, the more appropriate sentence might be financial inflation in fiat. all fiat paper money currencies in my opinion are very stable in buying goods inflation currency and the amount of currency inflation each country rarely touches 5%.

Your point of view clarifies the definition of an economic bubble. Otherwise, anything with any capitalization could be called a bubble. I agree with you, a bubble is something that grows rapidly in value and also quickly loses value a little later.

The topic was quite nice and accurate. Actually yes, fiat money is completely a bubble. The reason is very simple; can be printed continuously and, recently, central banks have issued money without any reserve or provision. Nobody should respond to the depreciation with the increasing supply here because almost every country's central bank is printing more money than it should be, and these moneys suffer very small value losses. Sometimes even the opposite can happen and uncontrolled currencies can also gain value. Supposedly there is control, but unfortunately not in action.

No, gold is not alike with any other metal. What makes gold valuable is its physical-chemical composition. It is malleable and ductile enable to become a jewelry and gold has the highest corrosion resistance out of all the metal that is why it is valuable. You cannot compare it to fiat with just looking at it as if you can just print it out od thin air.


The purpose of fiat is to make trades in standard manner, that is why we need to work for it in order to earn it. What we have now is a representative money that has nothing on its back but the rules of central bank for its value.  It is not an illusion, we are running after money because we need it. As if we have anything left to choose.

The gold standard is a solution to the problems of inflating bubbles in fiat money. This is the best solution when the economy of any country lies in ruins. But then it begins to interfere with the development of the economy so at the moment this model is not popular. But Central banks ' games with the inflation model are once again causing the specter of the gold standard to walk the world ;)

Every economic system that is built based on inflation is a bubble.
When someone has the authority to change the supply again and again this creates debt. As a result the bubble becomes bigger and when the time passes it blows on the poor people.

Definitely agree, all those stuff that initially have really high value and when the food crisis come they are all become worthless.Everything have value based on the circumstance and the condition of the world and it's all about the supply and demand law.
Money itself just a tool to bridge for convenient trading and when there's something important than just having the convenience it will definitely loss its value and the hard truth is, basic needs will change overtime and we don't know what the future holds.

Money is the only thing that can allow us to meet our basic needs. Without it, we definitely cannot buy food or pay taxes of services offered by governments. But fiat cannot bring us an improve in financial standard. It is inflationary in nature because the amount can be increased by authority any time they wish to. Therefore, we should focus on bitcoin and other coins to not only earn profits but solve inflation issues for ourselves too.

Fiat money is a bubble but the probability of bursting and bubble bursting rate is very low. Money FIAT is a unit representing the economy of a country. The country's economic sectors and the type of assets it owns are guaranteed for the currency they issue. It could be called that. If the economy develops stably, the political situation is stable and they have good monetary management measures, the bubble market will not break. They may be timeless but regulated. Like some ICO projects that sell airdrops. At first the airdrop will be diluted into the market but then they will rise again.
Crypto currencies are mined or released more fragile because the individuals behind them are a group of people, a startup company. They may cancel the project or they will resell the project to another individual or company. And the FIAT money represents a nation and they seek a way for their country to exist.

But that is precisely the issue, you are believing their lie that somehow it is possible to have money that is not backed by anything and that they can print at will and that they do not have to communicate to their citizens how much of it are they printing and that somehow this is not going to affect the economy of the country, all governments around the world believe their own lie and think that they have perfected the way to keep printing money forever and getting away with.

Only to discover too late that what they believe was a lie and that they cannot keep violating basic economic principles and keep printing as much money as they want, it is not possible, at some point the bubble will have to burst.

If bitcoin is a bubble, then anything used as a medium of exchange is a bubble. Because they both have deflationary attributes. 
The term bubble is used to quantify irregularities and anything with vanishing tendency. 
The value of a currency is in it worth at usage, so if someone used 1 bitcoin to buy a pizza when the value of bitcoin doesn't equal the present value,  that doesn't make the spender senseless because it matched it value at the time of usage.
Therefore, the speculative nature of currency exudes bubbles.

Fiat money does represent a country, I think it is impossible to become a global bubble, except if the big bubble occurs only in one country, for example the economic crisis that occurred in Venezuela which resulted in their fiat currency being worthless anymore

I want to say that any money, even cryptocurrency, is also not a reliable thing. It is safest to invest in real estate with your own plot of land. Or invest in some good business that will be useful to everyone.

Fiat currency reflects on what money they symbolized. It is very important for a country because economic state will see through this measures. Fiat currency bubble is more likely to not to explode or burst and can be handled and control. They are regulated properly without issues related to the management.

first of all btc is not a real bubble becuase btc has a purpose and wont pop and disapear whatsoever  same on fiat money  . its just the volatilie thingy that makes btc go down but i dont consider it as a bubble still   .

not all people loose money in btc but the ones that loose are not smart enough to know on what they have entered  . money is to useful so it is valueable but i dont get why call it zero value   . we dont take money from others but we earned it thru our hardwork and other people dont take it from us not unless if they are forcing you   .