Bitcoin Forum

Hi guys,
I was thinking to organize a betting game (player vs player) in a third party site.

The game will be like players will enter the game by paying x value (including my fee).
And then all of the players will play the game to stay at the positions of 1-10 to win prizes.

Lets say, there will be 24 players participating in a single game with a participation fee of BTC0.01050000

Total prize pool will be BTC0.24

Prize Distribution
1st   25%
2nd   20%
3rd   15%
4th   10%
5th   5%
6th   5%
7th   5%
8th   5%
9th   5%
10th   5%

So will you be interested to join the game?

Please make a vote and share your thoughts of every angle you may think to show your support.


Edit: 31/10/2017 - Quoted from Post #25 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2329495.msg23823456#msg23823456)

what is game
football manager champhionship, fantasy sport, poker, black jack
i think before people interest or not , must explain about game

At this point, I should only say that it is a multiplayer game.
It is nothing like you have mentioned above. It is not related to any casino games, gambling games.

The site where I want to organize the game is a free playing site.
I will be the referee and I will monitor the game very closely to ensure that everything is fair.

I didn't wrote anything about the game to keep it secret for now.
Hence, player will fight each other in a game to maintain their position in 1-10 to win the prize. Other 14 players will lost.

I hope this much information will help you to show your support.


edit: I would like to organize the game because I thought that we all became somewhat bored just by playing same games daily. So I just wanted to change the taste of the community. It won't be like 100 games will be played daily. As it will be manual process, maximum of 1 game will be played daily with x amount of players.

This means that there won't be any provably fair system. We will have to trust the referee's judgement. Will he be an anonymous person? Will it be the business owner?
I guess there's going to be a lot of claims against him if people start playing this. You can expect losers to claim that he was dishonest and set the games up, even if it won't be true. I voted yes because it's a good idea, but it's going to be very difficult to make it work.

I will not judge the winner at all.
At the end of the game every user will be able to see the result. The system is not like dice sites or casinos..
You killed x amount and stayed at position 1 and others will follow at descending order. If someone killed more than you, you will go under him.

Players have to play well to stay at the 1-10 position to win prizes.
Lets say, if you have played very well at the beginning and your position is at 5 then after 10 mins you went to the position 15.
Every second you can monitor your position. The game time will be 30 mins. So after 30 mins the game will end automatically and the result will show up instantly.

Anonymous? I will be the referee.. Everyone can find me here everyday.
If I start the game with 24 players, then as 25th player I will join the game as referee, not as a player.

Ok, so something like a shooter of a kind. How can you prevent people cheating? There are aimbots and hacks made for almost every single PvP game in existence.
What if someone auto aims or uses external software to increase their chances?


Will you be able to influence the outcome of the game? In a game like that a referee's job shouldn't be required. You either kill someone or not. The rules should not leave any doubt so that there's no need to ask for referee's decision. If you allow for that there will certainly be some accusations. The more complex the game the more rules you'll need to establish. Like in chess the rules are very simple, but compare it to a competitive moba game and you'll know what I mean.

I've seen similar elimination games where you were paying entry fee and then all the players were being asked the same questions, usually from science, math, history and so on and had very little time to answer. Those who got it right moved to the next round until only 1 person was left. The problem was that you had to wait a long time before enough players joined and the game could start.

Looks interesting. I would be interested if you allowed people to first check it out for free. What is your budget if I may ask? Have you made any similar sites before?

I think I will be interested to participate. But it will not happen if I do not have bitcoin, right? It is a brilliant idea to be honest. However, I do not understand the referee's position. Is his mission to give the price to the winners or decide who are the winners and then give them the price?

And what about your claim? I think you will get much bitcoins from the remaining 14th players. That is a good strategy to get bitcoin. Keep it up, no kidding.

The major issue with PvP games is to get enough trraffic ( players ). There is lot of games (RPS, pokers, ...) but due to lack of active users it's almost imposible to meet someone to play with.
You should consider huge advertising and social campaigns, promo actions etc. to keep the game attractive and alive.


EDIT:  ;D ... see I was first who choose "trust matters" which makes me bit surprised. Of course trus matters I will not send my funds to complete stranger without any sort of trust.

My trust measures looks like:

1. lvl. trust
- is game provably fair?

2. lvl. trust
- public known operator?
- if operator is anonymous, can he prove he holds enough funds? (so he don't need to run away with small amounts)

3. lvl. trust
- is the game concept profitable for operator?
- is the game running for long time?

(for each lvl. satisfied I'm willing to wager more)

Honestly I do not understood what game you mean,you must be put a game link site here or a video about the game.Your plan is good but I need to know first the game you mean and about escrow it must be there so your project goes well dude I will monitor this. ;)

The game has no hacks & cheats. The game only depends on skills. I am playing the game since 4 years.
I will not be able to influence anyone by any means. Only player's skill can help them to win. Better players play, most probably they will win.
If I start the game then the necessary rules will be made to establish the game, but I will try to keep as simple as possible.

Regarding referee's duty,
As I will organize the whole game from first to last. I have to give assurance of players winnings in a fair way.
I mean, as a organizer my duty will be to hold the bets made by players. Then distribute the funds to winners as mentioned in OP.
If I don't join the game as a referee then how I will announce the result? If I ask someone else to announce the result then it won't be authenticate.

Of course I'm looking forward to play PVP based game. Actually I'm looking for the game like big 2.5 ( viwawa ) and with PVP match , my winnings depend on luck against player not house edge anymore.
Maybe the matter only how good are you want to advertise the game to attract people for defeat each other

Pvp is always better than playing in a casino where you're against the house. Though i'm.noy yet sire about this proposition though it's quote interesting. It most likely would depend on what we're betting on if i'm to join or not. Of course i'd like to see my chances first

First you say it's a PVP then you say it's a third party site, so why should we pay your fees, rather go on the site and register and play PVP or are you trying to say you're going to be acting like a escrow, then there is no information about the third party site, or what kind of games do you intend to make us play, and how are we sure that the winners shall be paid. There's just lots of information that needs to be filled out here, maybe if you could do that, then people may even consider it.

Seems like it, he wants to hold the funds since every participant will pay extra 5% for the fees.The prize distribution is good though having the prizes to be spread up to 10 players. OP doesn't even have enough trading experience to be entrusted with that kind of amount or to be even called an escrow. My vote is no.

You got my attention, because it looks like a different game for sure, but I really need more information to say if I would play this game or not.
You are describing a multiplayer game that has the need of a referee? That's quite strange, and I don't know any type of online multiplayer game that would use a referee, and I don't even know how you would do this.

I only see one problem here. If the game is good and you get a few people interested, holding just 1 game a day won't create a big waiting list to play the game? Or one game would support a big amount of players every day?

stupid, casinos can make money faster than anything.
although the risk of large losses could happen
but this is all real for our ability in the sail that can make money from the casino and this will be easier than anything,
the chances of getting great edits are very real reflected,
I just love the casino.
because this is my life that depends on the casino

To be honest 10 mBTC is 60 dollars and that is a lot for something new, you need to lower buy in on 1 or 2 mBTC, or to 1 or 2 dollars and that sounds more attractive for testing something.
You say 24 players, I don't know for any game with so many players, that sounds like some tournament but the game is for 1 vs 1 and winner goes to next stage. I would like to hear more about the game.
I have trust issues but I would try game with some small buy in, lower buy in will attract more people and if its good we can player for higher stakes.

PvP betting games looks interesting for me at least we will decrease the risk of cheat casinos and last time i was playing games PvP is poker game but if you have other game i would like to participate but indeed people right that to playing PvP game your site must have high of traffic and i think this is required

I will be definitely interested if your site is authentic and there is no scam. Now a day the people afraid of the fraud and scams because nobody wants to lose their hard earning money easily and the scammers took all their money in few seconds. Therefore if you guarantee your site then I will surely participate in your game. I like gambling and I have sound money with gambling and will continue this.

There are existing crypto platforms like https://www.onehash.com which utilize a similar PvP format in sports betting.

Over the years I've seen many sites like the one you're proposing monetized in both fiat and crypto. Many were established and then shut down years ago. Some allowed betting on topics like election results and who would win the next WWE wrestling event. Others allowed users to create their own terms for bets which could be literally anything.

At the top of the food chain are large websites like fanduel and draftkings which accept millions of dollars in deposits and are known for big pay days. There were crypto based sites which were similar that shut down.

I think you would need to post more information before I could say whether I would be interested.

Good luck to all those who are going to participate but not me because if there is one thing i dislike is knowing that i lost my money to someone personally who will be using it for things i wish i could use it for.

yeah we might could consider 1 or 2 mbtc as lost even the games not started yet and it wouldn't be a big deal for anyone i guess. trust always matters , a new game with strange operator , i wouldn't risk my money but for 1 or 2 mbtc i guess it's worth for the neg trust if the event didn't run as planned and messed up :D . however i always waiting for blackjack PvP game , just saying ....

So far 14 votes has been made by voters.
Among 14, 6 are on "YES" / 6 are on "TRUST MATTERS" and 2 are on "NO"
It means, the voting is on positive side and majority of the community members want to taste a new concept.

Half of the members who voted on "Trust Matters" are concerned about me but they are interested on the game.
I am a member of this forum since Feb, 2016 and it is almost 2 years. And I'm a very active/regular member of this forum.
I agree I have not made much trades/transactions to prove myself. But it doesn't mean at all, that I'm dishonest.

So those who are concerned about me regarding trust, I think this can be solve by an escrow, isn't it?
If I start this game then I will escrow the total entry fee of participants and my fees to an escrow before I announce the game.
Later, when participants will join the game will be able to send me the entry fee directly. And if I cheat you guys then the escrow can pay you back.

The game, I'm thinking, can be played in different format.
A knock-out phase format / team vs team format / survival format

The entry fee and my fee which I have mentioned in op was just an example.
If I start the game then I will consider to start with low entry fee, so that players can get used to the game and the rules and for more player participation.

Those who are thinking that I will develop a pvp site for this game are very much wrong and didn't read previous posts.
I have clearly mentioned that the game will be organize in a third party site. The game is very well known to the world and I think most of you already know about it.
I am keeping the game secret because I don't want people to take away my idea and start the game by their own. But my thinking can be wrong. So if you guys think that it is okay to mention about the game herein then I will mention the game for everyone.

Regarding the referee issue.
Referee / game manager is required to handle the announcement thread, participation fee, prize distribution, game rules follow up etc etc. 

So far all the posts which are made by community members, I think can be solve to start the game.
But my biggest concern is something different, that, will it be legal to organize a betting game in a third party site without their awareness?

I hope this post will help you to decide the vote you will choose.

Of course I will be interested if your site if it is not fake and will be an authentic site. Now a day the people afraid of the fraud and scams because nobody wants to lose their hard earning money easily and the scammers took all their money in few seconds.

Therefore if you guarantee your site then I will surely participate in your game. I like gambling. I have won a lot of money with gambling. I am fond of gambling.

Interesting idea, but it would be really easy for you to fake results or such. I'm sure people would be more interested in this "game" if you would reveal info about this game or just tell rest of the rules.

Also, if you will find needed amount of players,you should think of a escrow.

I am interesting if your site if there is no scam. Now a day the people afraid of the fraud and scams because nobody wants to lose their hard earning money easily and the scammers took all their money in few seconds. Therefore if you guarantee your site then I will surely participate in your game.

I like gambling and I have made sound money with gambling and will continue this till I overcome all my dreams and needs in the near future.

There are already gambling games that are PVP like that rock paper scissors game, whose name escapes me and can't really remember but it's in the gambling section. Not so sure though if they have a lot of player base but I think you would be able to play with a some players there with no problems. Maybe I'll edit this post once I see it later.

You would need to have a very low fee (or even no fee) for it to be worth it to participate imo. The game that is played might be skill based, but using your example fee, it would have a RTP of 95% making a house edge of 5%. Aside from sportsbetting, I would almost never play a game with a 5% edge as it's just too high when I could be playing dice with a house edge of 0.5%. Your game may be skill based, but it still wouldn't be worth it for me to practice with an edge of 5%.


Being active doesn't make you more trustworthy, especially not for over 1500 USD. There's a lot of people who have been here for over 2 years that have been active that I wouldn't trust with even 0.05BTC.

I already saw many websites like this, the house just like the escrow to hold the money and take the edge, they let player vs player in the bet. It's from dota 2 and csgo website.

This is something similar to the picking of lot. We pay for each lot that holds our name. Finally when picked the user gets the majority share and the rest gets the remaining distributed. This seems to be a good plan, but at execution level this will not gain more trust, because the owner himself can create profile and spend the particular amount and get the first prize.

It's a lot easier to make a bracket, or whatever format you want, and basically record who wins than to run a signature campaign. I guess it depends on the type of game on difficulty to ref it, but I'd assume most games would log stats online and have an anti cheat? I did run a lottery based on block hashes where I threw 0.001BTC into the pot instead of taking a fee in the past.

Yes, I read that it is skill based. But still, even with skill, fighting a 5% edge would be annoying and it may be more worth it to play a luck based than to practice to beat that edge. A reasonable fee for me if I was participating would be around 1%, so it is on par with the edge of luck based games. Not sure if you would consider that worth it though.


True. I was expressing my own opinion on that matter.



You paid 5$, and it was an easy solution that didn't take much time to post so I didn't really care if I went first or not. I do trust you for 5$, but that doesn't mean I'd trust you with 1500$. For the campaign I'm running, I've held upwards of 3 BTC in escrow. Regardless, this isn't about me.



The amount does matter. Remember master-p and his scamming? He had the chance to scam for multiples of BTC, but didn't until he held over 20BTC from what I remember.

I just don't understand what is the reason of all this. You are just humiliating me for nothing.
The way you are acting that I am a well known scammer and you are just trying to protect the community from me.

I must agree that you are very best at attacking people for no reason. CONGRATULATION!


Exactly, it is much easier to make brackets to humiliate someone as it you are doing all the way till now. You are intentionally skipping my good points and capturing the bad points to attack me. Lets see my good & bad points and how do you approached to attack me.


My reply with your concern about the fee (ref - your first post)

You skipped my good point where I appreciated your advice and told you that I will think twice to set a fair value for my fee. That was my good point.
But you captured the bad point to attack me where I said "Will you manage a sig. campaign without a fee?"

In my reply I didn't said that your task is very easy to manage (Sig. Campaign). I know it is a very hard task for every managers.
And that's why the fees are also very high for managing sig. campaign. If managing campaign was easy than the fees would be much lower?
I am just trying to say, you wouldn't manage anything without a fee. Instead you will charge a fee according to the task difficulty.
So if you calculate and compare my fee with any sig. campaign manager's fee, then you will find my fee is low as it is less difficult to manage the game than sig. campaign.

Regarding your house edge concept,
You just cannot compare a casino and a manual game managing with house edge.
In a casino they get 1000s of players daily, and 1000s & 1000s of bets played daily and that makes them to take lower fees (If I am not wrong).
But in my case, I will organize the game with just 20/24/32 players daily. And hopefully I won't be able to organize more than 20 games a month (It will vary time to time and of course of community response).

You are calculating the fee in percentage but I have calculated the fee as whole figure and will charge every player.
Lets say if I set the entry fee BTC0.002 + my fee BTC0.0002 = BTC0.0022. So if you calculate the house edge now, it is coming 10%
But if you calculate with BTC0.01 + my fee BTC0.0002 = BTC0.0102, it is coming 2%
At the beginning my intention was to set entry fee at BTC0.01, but some members asked to lower it at the beginning.

In my game players don't need to fight for the house edge, it is more essential to fight for the prizes. The prizes are very handsome, if they win they wins a lot.

The problem is you are comparing a different game model with casino & dice sites.

Finally you should not concern about the fee, it is totally up to me and it is my personal decision. But your suggestion was appreciated.


Regarding your BTC0.001 thrown away,
If I am not wrong, the puzzle you organized at 29th August 2016 and thrown away BTC0.001
According to Bitfinex rate, at that date bitcoin price was $574. So you just thrown away $0.574 = BTC0.001
The puzzle you organized was not a game to charge fee for, it was just one time game play you organized and it was more likely a giveaway. In other sense, you organized the puzzle because you were bored.


That is what I meant and wrote it.


Don't tell lie! You really cared about the money. If not, you wouldn't thrown away your wallet addy for payment just by providing a solution "USE BCC".
If I were you, I wouldn't charged you or anyone else for this solution. You really cared about $5 = BTC0.00826705.

Regarding trust,
Your concern about the trust of me is total bullshit. Your posts about the trust has no value.
Why you are writing same thing again & again which has no value? You should read all the posts before you post something about.
The thread is not yet big enough that you need 100s of pages to read. I even quoted almost all the answers in op for members ease. Where I also wrote about the escrow.

You are running a big campaign that's why you held BTC3 in escrow.
I also said, I will escrow the fund before I even announce the game. So why you are questioning about the trust?

See, you also need to escrow the fund even you have more trust ratings than me. Does it means community members are concern about your trust also?
You and me, not that much difference.


Don't get me wrong, I am just saying on the base of your statement.

You can also be like master-p..
Developing your trust, the amount is increasing day by day on you. And suddenly you disappeared.

P.s.: I don't know about master-p and what was his crimes. I just assumed that he was a trusted member in our community and suddenly ran away with BTC20.

Still I will say amount is not a concern for a scammer. A scammer looks for a successful scam.

---

No More Arguments! Time will speak up about me.
You post, I post... the argument will never end.
I am not here to make enemies, I am here to make friends and I believe in good relationships.

I won't be replying on your posts anymore on this particular thread.

I will lock this thread when I will get my answer > But my biggest concern is something different, that, will it be legal to organize a betting game in a third party site without their awareness?

Thank you for everything.

Read the site/game's terms of service. It should be fine, and doesn't have to be betting but rather paying to participate as a participation fee in a tournament with a prize pool. Games will obviously vary, but it shouldn't be a problem and they definitely won't pursue you legally if they don't allow it and somehow find out.


Why can't you? Yes, they have large volumes, but they have risk. You don't. The game has a Return to Player of less than 100%, giving it a house edge to the player. The player needs to overcome the house edge with skill to make a profit.

---

Also, I'm not attacking you. I pointed out that being active doesn't necessarily make you trustworthy, and suggested that the fee was too high. You started talking about me out of the blue.

I want to organize a contest like this, Actually, this is a good idea. I suggest to OP to launch a tournament of team fight game like DOTA2, LOL or CSGO that used bitcoin as bet. I know that there are existing e-sports betting but to bet on your own game is a bit new.

Being only active in the discussion forums never prove you to be trustworthy .It really does not make any difference that whether you have joined since last 5 years or 15 years.

All that matters is how much you have learnt and practically applied in terms of trading, investment and currency exchanges so as to earn at least some of bitcoins. In simple words you can only qualify for player VS player betting when you are worth it.

Your post doesn't makes any sense.
The post you made its just because for your post count for the sake of your sig. campaign.

As you can quote a specific part of the conversation then I think you can also read the necessary.
Please read out all the posts & replies when you make a post. The reply for your post has been replied to someone else concern, already.

Locking the thread now to prevent further spam.


@Darkstar
Thank you for your reply regarding the awareness of the third party site.
Sometimes ago I checked their terms but I didn't seen anything objectionable. But I will read out again to double confirm the issue.

And I am sorry if you got hurt for my replies earlier. I didn't meant anything to hurt you.
I was just trying to say the real fact, that if I had more deals documented then I think no one would shown any concern about the trust. THAT'S ALL!.