Bitcoin Forum

Does hoarding really hurt Bitcoin?

Nope. Everyone is free to hoard. It's really stupid when people claim "if you just hoard it, and don't transact it, you are hurting bitcoin!". What the hell is this logic? It is my bitcoin, I do whatever I want with it. If I choose to hoard it then so be it. It is stupid to spend your high quality money that appreciates with time when you have bad quality money that depreciates with time (fiat) to spend things you can already buy with it. Hold the bitcoin, dump the fiat, that is what the intelligent people do. There's no point in doing payments in bitcoin unless you really need to (like paying an VPN service for example.)

I really think that hoarding is a good thing specially if you compare bitcoin with gold and try to think that bitcoin is an asset more than a currency then after a year or two bitcoin will sure increase it's value and thinking that your hodl bitcoin is a precious metal can be a good thing actually, and right now in just a small amount of time we can see that bitcoin had hit it's new all time high again and gaining momentum up to $6500 dollar.

I have a different opinion. Hoarding is bad for bitcoin. The money should work. When bitcoins are in the wallets of users, they create a gap in the market and it stimulates the growth of prices. This has nothing to do with the real price. We must face the fact that the bitcoin price will fall to a reasonable level. It will be a shock to everyone who keeps the coins.

Hoarding is neither good or bad, it is just what it is, think about it if the price of bitcoin went down then all those hoarders are going to lose a lot of money, fortunes can be lost in a matter of days however those that are hoarding bitcoin are waiting for the opposite scenario in which bitcoin goes up in value a lot and they are able to benefit from that change in the price.

I would say Yes.

Basically if bitcoin is never used it just becomes a ponzi scheme where people buy and hoard, in the hopes of selling to someone at some point in the future. But why would the person in the future buy? The answer seems to be, "simply because the price will always go up, it doesn't matter if it is not used", which is a classic definition of a ponzi.

If the price actually managed to stay flat, instead of climbing so fast, peope WOULD use it as a currency and it might have a long term future.

I think that it hurts bitcoin at some aspects.

Unlikely at the bitcoin case, when you hoard fiat it's okay, because the government are always able to print more money if the total funds in circulation gets low.
But  at the bitcoin case, if there are a lot of people that hoarding instead of using, it makes the total funds in circulation go lower, but it's still impossible to print more money into the system( nature of  bitcoin), it makes the bitcoin price rise, which could be count as a bubble, because the total funds in circulation are much lower then the total funds that exist.

long term investors, hoarders, hodlers, or whatever you want to call them exist in any market. they buy up the assets and hold them. sometimes cash out some and most of the times they just keep buying every now and then, mostly in the dips.

that doesn't hurt bitcoin because it is not everyone that does this. and besides we are headed for a high price and a stable price in the far future. by that time when we talk about how much 1 satoshi is worth, people will have a stable satoshi price and today's hoarders will be spending it happily like a multi millionaire.

I'm on the forum I read that Amazon wants on Thursday to make a statement about the use of bitcoins. If so then bitcoin will have the possibility of a turn and then the price can stabilize. But the stabilization will apply only to falling prices. We will have the opportunity not to sell bitcoin on the exchange where it will all depend on whales. We can spend bitcoins to purchase goods more profitably. Then the price of bitcoin will always go up.

"Everything counts in large amounts"

Hoarding is not bad, especially at current levels. There's a good number of Bitcoin flowing around, the economy works. So no harm is done.
People do the same with USD or EUR, why wouldn't do it with Bitcoin?

If the amounts locked on safe storage will become too big, then this will become visible and will hurt, but for now I think that we are far from that point.

Bitcoin is an investment option that has a very limited supply. If people continue to hoard/accumulate long enough, this market will keep going up in value constantly ~ not something many people will complain about, right? ;)

Important aspect is the fact that it helps in getting coins out of circulation, and thus off-exchange. People looking to come on board will have to accept the fact that they some times might end up paying a significant premium.

It's nothing to worry about for me personally. Bitcoin's currency aspect has never really been utilized fully by the majority of the people, and likely never will if the general mentality doesn't change dramatically.

I originally felt like holding/hoarding would be bad for Bitcoin because if we never try to spend Bitcoins at stores and businesses, there will be no demand for Bitcoin to be used as a method of payment. Why would a store get set up to accept Bitcoins as payment if no one ever pays that way?

I’m assuming that currently, very few businesses accept Bitcoin for payment and most people just hold or trade Bitcoins and still the price keeps going up at a huge pace. So at least for now, holding/hoarding isn’t hurting Bitcoin.

Apparently Bitcoin has found a niche as a store of value. The fees are so high right now that this may be all that Bitcoin is ever used for.

Another thing that could happen is that as people keep hoarding Bitcoins, the price could level off or drop. If that happens, people may be more inclined to spend their Bitcoins. If they start spending them, this could create a demand for more businesses to accept it as a payment method which in turn could make Bitcoin more useful and more in demand.

Basically, I think this issue can fix itself because as long as the price keeps rising like it has, people don’t want to spend it. But if the price were to start dropping, they would probably spend it and put those Bitcoins back into circulation.

It really depends on the level of hoarding and the level of usage, there has to be a balance between use and hoarding so that bitcoin has a true value, if this is the case then hoarding is no problem, it would be nice in future to see some system whereby bitcoin is recycled, by this I mean something alike to a bitcoin bank.

why should it hurt? From the hoarding of all people can benefit can also be a loss. I mean if someone hoards bitcoin I'm sure someday he will got profit from the bitcoin he heaps. Stockpiling is also the only investment for individuals, I see the market is increasing. the more he accumulates the bitcoin the better.

No. People here are constantly advising each other to buy at whatever price and to hold for the long term, which obviously hints at one thing, and that's getting people to not sell anything for a few years (at least, that's my definition of long term). This has been going on for quite some time now -- people aren't selling their coins as easily as they used to back in the days. I think this will continue to happen when you take into consideration that Bitcoin will more and more function as store of value for people. There will always be enough coins for people to buy, because the higher the price goes up, the lower the amounts are that they can afford to buy. It basically evens out the lower availability of Bitcoin.

Actually it does not. Hoarding or "hodling" Bitcoins make the price high. If you have a hoard of Bitcoins, you cause scarcity to its market. Scarcity would mean that the supply in the market is low, thus making the price surges. It does not hurt Bitcoin since it is natural. We cannot exclude the fact that a person has the right to his asset and he can hoard all he want.

Some are grateful to those who hodl their Bitcoin, because of them, the increase in Bitcoin's price is incomparable.

No

No,But if it will be a culture of all Bitcoin users (this is for example that EVERYONE HOLDS Bitcoins and no one ever uses it as a currency or doesn't even transact it) it may definitely hurt Bitcoin. Bitcoin will be surely dead if these miners will not process transactions because no one creates them which means mining will not be that profitable. Bitcoin is a currency. Every now and then it should be used as a currency and not just hold it.If you really "care" about Bitcoin and Bitcoin Community, then i think , you should use Bitcoin as a currency

You are partially correct in that hoarding doesn't hurt Bitcoin on it's own, but if everyone did hoard and there wasn't any supply and only demand then Bitcoin wouldn't be worth what it is today.

Bitcoin requires people to actually use Bitcoin to continue to grow in terms of price. There needs to be a reason to own Bitcoin and a reason to spend/trade it. Yes it's true that paying things in Bitcoin you could be overpaying due to it rising in a few years, but really that's only because people are trading in the currency.

Bitcoins are very different from real money, if i have bitcoins on my wallet, i dont feel that constant necessity of spending all my money on a shop or in a mall, i prefer to keep my bitcoins in there and i know that my money will always be safe on there because i would not be tempted to spending them.
but it doesnt affect the price, if you hold them, you are just keeping that amount and you are not dumping anything, i dont see it as a bad thing at all..

Hoarding hurts bitcoin yeah but it does more good than harm.
When you hoard, you illogically raise the value of btc by adding value to the market that you just want to take back. You invest value in the hope not that the system is good, but that the system will still grow a bit more just so you take profit from it (a bit like a ponzi). So you're adding false value and when you'll take that value back you'll hurt the trust of investors.

But in the meantime you've helped attracting investors and most of the time they'll do more good than you :D

For some people with big amount of bitcoin, it maybe yes due to they can dump bitcoin price instantly after some sell strikes within hours.
Consider how many bitcoins generated everyday; As of the latest block reward halving on 9th of July 2016 each block now generates 12.5 new bitcoins. On average a block should be mined each 10 minutes but, because of the constant growth of hashing power (at least until now) each block takes close to 9 min on average to be mined. That means we mine, on average between 1440/10*12.5 and 1440/9*12.5 so between 1800 and 2000 per day.
Miners could generate so many bitcoins in a day, and the big whales of this crypto world are the miners with mining pools.
They have to sell bitcoin everyday to cover their daily expenses, in that case, bitcoin distribute among the holders, investors or traders.
Fortunately, most people can't wait to extract profits by selling their bitcoins which make it distributed and spread widely, instead of just hoarding.

It is not hurting bitcoin,  you make the bitcoin price become stagnant, without the transaction volume the price will become really stable and when it comes too stable then the traders can't trade it, hoarding means there are people buying bitcoin so when you buy and hoard you make the price go higher

While you are hoarding your bitcoins your own wallet you are protecting them from being dumped in some time, because you are the only one who has a full control of your own bitcoins.
I dont see anything bad with this, you are keeping those bitcoins and you are not selling them... And it is like an investment because it's price is always going up.
But holding fiat is not the same, maybe you are confused because of that.. quiet money in fiat is always a bad thing.

Hoarding contributes to the movement since this actions tends to put no sell pressure to the buy orders which can put the value of it go higher.

No, quite the contrary, it is good for it, since it increases the price by decreasing the available supply.

If we consider its potential to become a global currency that would substitute fiat, bitcoin is still very cheap.

The more people hoards it, and the more the demand increases, the higher the price will go, and that is all we want.

And I have the opposite opinion (ain't democracy great?).  It doesn't matter in the least if people hoard bitcoin.  Look at Satoshi's block--that's a hell of a lot of coin that's just been sitting there, not contributing to the crypto economy.  If anything, it's been a boon to the price.  And I would suggest that bitcoin is not a good currency, which is exactly why people are hoarding it and not spending it.  Well, that and the fact that it's deflationary.  I'm quite content to not spend it and I've no problem with people who do likewise.

And another thing:  does hoarding precious metals hurt the metals market?  Nope.  How about the market for rare comic books/coins/whatever?  Nope.  Hoarding only drives up the price.  And bitcoin shares quite a few attributes with metals.  Hoarding, it doesn't hurt anything.

Besides that is one of the main points of having a currency, one of the characteristics of a currency is to be durable, if it is created from a material that do not last then you will need to use your currency before it deteriorates to the point of becoming unrecognizable and seeing this other people will not accept your currency or will try to accept it for a discount, so a currency is meant to be durable so you can do with it whatever you want.

Hoarding is not hurting bitcoin as it makes the price of bitcoin get to a higher value, hoarding is a tactic that has been used for a long time to make a certain item gets more value just like what other people are doing in bitcoin.

It can result for us to hurt or not. If bitcoin price fall down then that was really hurt especially when it fall down hardly. All of us for sure hoard bitcoin and it is up to us if we want to continue to hoard or not. Every person that is owning a bitcoin can do whatever they want to their bitcoin.

Although hoarding has a bad impact over the market for products but bitcoin case is different. The negative aspects of hoarding bitcoins are low as compared to the positive one, so i don't think so hoarding hurts bitcoin. Users are spending as well as hoarding bitcoin for long term to get maximum out of it, the main thing is demand which is increasing day by day and makes price to rise up to the sky.

bitcoin is the same as real money because it also has a value and holding them does affect the price because if more people  hold it for so long, its value can increase but if we sell it  then its value can decrease suddenly because it is all about the demand and supply. though most of us nowadays are on to hoarding because of the upcoming hardfork.

Exactly.Hoarding is not bad for bitcoin.Bitcoin is now mostly treated as a digital asset and people nowadays mainly buy it for that reason and not considering it as a currency.

Even the fiat currency is hoarded by many people and so bitcoin being treated as asset,there is no wrong in hoarding it.

Only 16 million coins have been mined and yet 5 million coins are to be mined.That is they are still ready for supply.So,unless the last block of bitcoin is mined making 21 million coins in to circulation,hoarding bitcoin would not hurt bitcoin.

Actually i didn't get it why hoarding can hurt bitcoin, in the first place its all yours ,its your money and if the price is going down you need to accept that you lose some of your money, you should aware of that since you are in the world of crptocurrency. All of us are free to hoard or to hold.

If you take people into consideration, you could find majority of the rich people keep hold of fiat. This does not mean that the value gets affected because of the same as the value will be based on the amount that have got printed. Similar is our bitcoin, hoarding might lead to growth but never leads to decline in value.

What we're actually doing now is hoarding. We hoard or hold bitcoin now because we're waiting for a good pump and to make a profit and while we hold the supply are getting to its limit and the demand are increasing day by day so as the price is getting less affordable to everyone. The term " hoarding " is a negative term of holding.

We are in a free economy, so if someone wants to hoard he can do it for free and it's up to him. In what term you are asking that hoarding hurts? It is actually helping the demand of bitcoin to become higher, as the supply is limited and this makes a limit to the total supply in the economy of bitcoin. In a free trade, there are merchants that are hoarding their products in times of crisis to make their valuables expensive.

I'm really not sure if it is applied also in Bitcoin, but in fiat currency it actually does. In order for the market to grow, it needs it's currency to circulate. Circulate through the transactions because it creates inflow and outflow of money.

And it Bitcoin, the more it circulates, meaning the higher the demand. And that leads to higher in value. But hoarding is not illegal nor discouraged. This is part of what makes the market of Bitcoin volatile. It is an investment that's why many hold onto their Bitcoins.

It’s really funny that this is at least the third thread I’ve read this day alone, about how bad holding bitcoin is. Someone or groups are making this issue to spread just because they’re not holding anything and jealous maybe that someone have. I don’t know if this accusation is accurate but it just not coincidence having this discussion when the price is high and mostly can’t afford to buy some cryptocurrency.

Because is bitcoin hoarding would hurt it then the price should be decreasing, epic that is logical and common sense that need to check for.

I agree that hoarding helps in decreasing the supply and increasing the demand and hence increasing the price. But why do we forget that Bitcoin is a currency first and investment asset later. By hoarding we are hindering the utility. Merchants aren't accepting Bitcoin as a payment system because nobody is ready to use their Bitcoins at all because of inbuilt deflation and hence it hardly makes any difference whether accepting Bitcoin or not.

Don't forget Bitcoin can increase till certain point because of demand but sooner or later utility plays a major role in deciding price and by hoarding we are actually limiting that.

not but when you have wallet with more than bitcoin and lost access to the wallet (password , recovery words) will really hurt bitcoin

Hoarding in itself may not hurt and it contributes to the price but when a dump is made, it would make an impact especially a great number of coins were dumped. This is how others manipulate the price; it gets lower once a dump is made. Since bitcoin only has a limited supply and its supply does not change, hoarding or dumping and actions like these would make some effects and changes in the price. There are a lot who hoard and it is but normal for people to do so because they intend to have plenty bitcoins for investment.

Bitcoin price depend on the supply and demand of coins, and everyone knows that the bitcoin are in a limited supply of 21 million coins only, so their price is increasing.
No I think hoarding of bitcoins benefits bitcoin in the long run, as the people hoard bitcoins for the future price increase and this in turn causes those coins to cut from the market causing further rarity of coins and taking the price further higher, so hoarding benefits bitcoin price.

What you are talking about doesn't only concern Bitcoin's market, but basically every market in the world since the basic principle of a market is based on supply and demand.

In the same way, every market gets manipulated by market movers. Bitcoin's market however lacks serious liquidity, which is why even today, a fair number of coins can get the market to plummet with like 10% effortlessly.

One thing is sure, people here love seeing the price go up, and for that to happen coins need to be taken off the market, but for whatever reason people still think it's against Bitcoin, or at least its currency aspect. ::)

It happens in ideal conditions. Actually not so simple. If the market is not regulated then the whales can easily manipulate the price. We don't know who eventually buys coins. All exchanges have their own regulatory mechanisms. But the exchange of cryptocurrency created for speculation. To them the laws of the market do not work.

That's even more of a pain and it's truly a painful thing when someone experiences that thing. He hoards a lot of bitcoin with the hope that one day he'll become a millionaire with bitcoin.

But out of his carelessness losses his recovery phrases, mnemonic, seed or private keys as something unexpected happened. It will hurt you most  :'(

I think that is only true because you cannot currently spend your bitcoin on a shop or a mall, once bitcoin becomes accepted everywhere you are going to feel the same impulse to spend it, that is why the most important thing to know is why you are holding your bitcoin in the first place, I’m holding because I expect great economic benefits from bitcoin and not as a way to pay for stuff I do not need.

Hoarding doesn't hurt bitcoin.People are free to choose what they want to do with their bitcoin but yes ultimately i also think bitcoin should be more transacted that way it will increase the adoption and also the volume will increase.People should not only buy bitcoin as a means of investment(which most people do.me too  :P) but also should use on day to day basis for their daily needs.

Definitely for me hoarding affects bitcoin but not that much. But because be means of hoarding, your money will not work or process. It will affect the bitcoin and other resources.

Not at all.  At this point, I think that hoarding helps it.  The more you decrease the supply available for trade on the open market (e.g., through hoarding), the higher the price is going to go.  Price increases continue to grab more people's attention, which should then lead to greater participation and adoption.  Hoard away!  ;D

I don't think that there much difference if people or investors decide to hoard bitcoin, if is it then not significantly affect the market price. In my personal experience, I see bitcoin as a form of currency, so I don't have reasons to hoard, well just a few but not that much. I always liquidate it because I have a offline business and I took some of my bitcoins to put in their. So it makes sense to me to cash out some of my stash. Because I believed that its better to bring back the bitcoins I have into circulation so that others can bought it. Plus hoarding gives us a better price isn't it? And those hoarders one time or another would have to sell off because we need to cash out and take profit at one point in time. And there's always a chance to buy in dips so there's no put in hoarding huge amounts of bitcoin.

In fact that is not the way things work, historically it was the other way around, at first everything is an asset and then after people begin to notice the asset is very easy to trade and it has all the characteristics of money then it becomes money, bitcoin is an asset first and then a currency and as we can see in the last days bitcoin is a great asset but it is still not a great currency since it is slow and expensive.