Bitcoin Forum

When bitcoin goes up, Alts go down.

When bitcoin goes down, Alts go down.

When Bitcoin price is stable flat line then Alts prices go in the green.

All above happens regardless of any Alt and regardless how good the road map is for that Alt.

So in summary just ignore this Alt speculation sub forum till bitcoin price stabilisation?

Or which altcoins are independant from bitcoin and the above statements?

Seems that it's completely true. I expected altcoins price to rise after segwit2x cancellation. But after a little bit of increase in altcoins prices, they are dropping again even more than bitcoin.

I chose rather to ignore BTC.  ;D
BTC, BTC gold, BTC cash, BTCSegwit2x yesnoyesno scam....no thanks.

Its time for other cryptocurrencies. BTC is an old software which cant upgrade.

There is still some uncertainty.

So as you can see overall there is much Fiat that gets taken out of the crypto market. I mean we lost quite a few billions already.
they will come back as soon it is stabilised.

Segwit2x is cancelled so what uncertainty is there left?

I think te issue now is with the time of the year we are, most people always take money out of the system rather than put in and this dump in price is bound to happen when most people are taking profit, I expect the next bull run to start by March next year

Is the following statement I like to add is right?:

When bitcoin fails to deliver its purpose properly causing its price to go down then will Alts superior to bitcoin go up in price? For example Alts that is cheaper fees and faster than bitcoin.

Ok so its like hot and cold seasons yeah.

At christmas time its when shops/stores make the most money of the year which should result in higher profits and shares in the stock market. So best to leave crypto markets for stock markets now?

Sorry guys, bitcoin and the cryptomarket  doesn't play by those rules. There is no seasons in the crypto world. It can go up or down at any time of the year and as mass adoption unfolds nothing can stop it's rise.

You have 1ALT that has stored capital in BTC, and it is 10BTC
lets say 1BTC == $7000
so 1ALT supply/usd cap
supply = 100ALTs
usd cap = capital in BTC x BTC/USD price
1ALT = 10BTC/100
1ALT = 70000USD/100
1ALT = 700USD or 0.1BTC
when BTC is falling USD capital is falling - lets say now: 67000USD/100 = 670USD

when BTC raises - ALT in USD is raising, sometimes people are trying to catch the train and investing, sometimes people are monetizing profits
when BTC falls - ALT in USD falls, minus people are in panic and selling - capital is falling even more

when BTC is stable - people just invest in what they think is good investition

Yeah however I prefer BTC over fiat USD any day of the week. People value bitcoin in fiat or cashing bitcoin to fiat is like a insult to bitcoin itself.

If USD collapses and there's hyperinflation like a can of coke costing $50000 then how do we value bitcoin properly?

I think there are no strict relations between alts and bitcoin, even like the ones offered by the op. Sometimes bitcoin is growing and altcoins are going up with it. Sometimes bitcoin is stable and alts are up. Surely in some cases btc is up and alts are down. I guess what's more important is the dominance factor. When bitcoin is about 60% dominant altcoins are generally down. It btc will fix around some lower price enabling altcoin market dominance, some alts might recover and bring bad the good old days of green coinmarketcap.

Good old days of green from march next year?

I do not think there is a 100% clear-cut relation between bitcoin and alts. In summer, both were going up
together but after that most alts entered into a correction or sideways range while bitcoin kept moving on up.
Current minor selloff is probably going in the weekend profit taking by whales after the big rise of last few days.

This is probably not going to be true forever. Once the first serious companies start popping up on the blockchain they will, at least to some extent, become independent of the Bitcoin price.

Things will also look very different if Bitcoin breaks the trillion dollar market cap, since volatility should start decreasing significantly by that point in time.

What im saying is happening now.

What price and when you guys think bitcoin will stabilise at from the current dipping?

I think Bitcoin has already bottomed today. So long as it stays above $6000, bottom should
be in. Alts are rallying again too.

Off corse there is no 100% negative correlation between Bitcoin and Altcoin there is a negative correlations between the two.
I still feel there will be another push to pump the price of Bitcoin to $10k before January 2018, and that is when I will takwe advantage of the Altcoin dump because their will certainly be FOMO when that happens

This is a prove that bitcoin can survive without altcoins but altcoins cannot survive without bitcoin. The stability of price of bitcoin is what other coins need to grow and bitcoin is currently getting pump and dumped because of prices manipulations by the whales and big investors. Yesterday's the whales start to pump bitcoin cash and dumped the core but today the opposite is now the case.

I know it's all speculation but isn't it possible for bitcoin AND alts to go up?

Speculators are saying bitcoin will go to $40000 next year.

If thats the case will we ever see green ATH's for Alts in btc value not $USD value?

I think we should actually hold until we can see bitcoin is stabilize and bitcoin price can be bring under control. For now the fluctuations is too high and there is no way some of the alternative coins can bear this preasure. I think one should hold altcoin's investment as you are definitely going to loss if you convert your bitcoin to altcoin.  All the coins need bitcoin to survive but bitcoin did not need them to survive.

I think what is happening now is just market sentiment, people are still not confidence hold Altcoins when Bitcoin is rally, when Altcoins rally they call it bubble but it is not so with BTC which is a concern to me

What do you mean? A lot of people have been calling Bitcoin a bubble for as long as it has existed.

There are really good altcoins out there that are for long term hodl, like ETH. Right now bitcoin price will not stabilize or go to straight line because the sentiment is very bullish. But I don't think that the altcoin market is pressure with all the bitcoin run. Actually they hold as well, look at the top 5-10 coins and they have also enjoying a good run.

I somewhat disagree with the notion that altcoins needs bitcoin to survived, each altcoin is different project in my opinion and has its own "fan boys" just like bitcoin. I think they can survived all through out. They need each other mutually.

Maybe it is looked like what you though in fact the coin getting pump if whale decide to pump it and ussually it is happen with the great news behind it. Pump without news sometimes work sometimes no. Pumps makes people fomo and makes the coin going very high. I also though like you think but not now. Sometime btc up and there is some altcoin going up with it.

I agree with this thread, considering the update Gulden is about to do. All eyes on bitcoin.

Yeah I don't see Gulden surpassing ATH's in btc value, $USD value is meaningless. I dont like USD fiat paper inflation I like my BTC to grow not dollars

What are your guys comments now?

I don't see bitcoin price being sideways stabilising instead a crazy rally to $20k? If so what chances Alts will have against king bitcoin? Even Ethereum is not at $1000 yet.

Also I like Alts to raise in BTC value not $USD inflationary paper money value as $ is meaningless hence in my opinion there's still a lot of bag holders out there still in btc losses.

BTC and altcoins rally in turns if you haven't noticed. It's not easy to predict the flow of the money though.

Those are good rules of thumb the alts that do not follow those patterns most of the time are at a very specific time in their lives, for example when everything is green and a coin is in the red the reason may be that there are internal problems, and when everything is red and that coin is green that may be because there has been a new development on the coin, like an upgrade or being listed in a big exchange.

Its all random and theres no fix correlation with bitcoins price into alts price because there are instances on where price do go even on any situation.Alts would go with the flow and some would really go on its directions which means it doesn't really depend but seeing on common situation on where prices of bitcoin surges up its already normal to see that Alts go on reds because people are switching out to btc.

Yes but at the same time you need to understand the next, both alts and bitcoin can go up in cash but alts and bitcoin cannot go up at the same time when compared to each other, if bitcoin grows faster than alts even if alts are growing against cash they are losing ground against bitcoin and if the opposite happens then alts gain ground against bitcoin.