Bitcoin Forum

I get up and see this:

http://i64.tinypic.com/jr4e8l.jpg

BCH has gone from around $10 billion market cap to $30 billion market cap in a couple of days. Who the hell has some spare $20 billion to pour into BCH? Buffet’s net worth is around $77 billion.

I don’t think this can only be explained to Roger Ver and Jihan Wu going all in on BCH. They must have persuaded institutional investors to get into BCH. Apart from scared people exchanging BTC for BCH.

I will HODL but this is serious.

If the price of an asset goes up 20b does not mean that 20b moved into it. U can create that price with a fe million if u wanted

Could you explain this, please?

BCH market is really spiking a lot now. Who knows it might be just all the people getting their BTC exchanged for the BCH at this very movement. Sometimes it could happen that when few of the big investors try to get into specific coin and we see all the green market their then it could start event of chain reaction and all the investors starts dumping the money into it. May be thats why 80%+ hike on BCH and 10%- lowered BTC which is more than in value and can cover those 70%+ spiking easily. That is for sure, BTC is getting exchanged with BCH. But for the reason that I don't know or may be its tough to decide who's manipulating the thing at all.

 :o I'm gonna still hold my BTC on my web wallet but this is really serious. I agree on you that there is a big possibility that Wu and Ver persuaded some investors to pump BCH. There is also casual  people who turns into BTC. At the end of the day it's still the community who should prevail here. Manipulators will get the karma they deserved.

On the other side I admire the resilience of Ethereum. Both times when Bitcoin goes up and down ETH remains somewhere closely to 300$. It seems like he wanted to say that you dont need to spend XX billions to increase BCH market cap by the same amount. For example someone is buying a coin for 1$ over the last deal and it becomes a new actual price so with the total abount of 16 mln coins the market cap increases by 16$mln

Hahaha oh my god. The MARKET CAP is up 20B.

If I make a new coin, set the limit to 1 million, open two accounts and sell for $1 to myself BOOM. $1 million market cap.

There are NOT an extra 20 billion put into BCH and this is an ovious attempt at manipulation just like every other time in the past. It's to get newbies hypes thinking they should invest in it because of the wonderful gains. They cannot and will not last.

Yup this is something very planned game for BCH and BTC. Look at the graph and tell me you dont see BTC going all into the BCH and it is being pumped like crazy. Its not predictable 100% whats going with these two currencies but I’m petty sure that BTC is being dumped into BCH for some spiking reasons. People might be insane at this point as to why BCH is getting hiked so much. Im confused with the BCH now, and can’t decide whether to pour my money into it or not. Im thinking its better to keep an eye on bitcoin itself and once it is pretty down we can just buy it from there onwards. I do really think that BCH is just temporary and nothing can keep it so high for longer period of time.

Is crypto market cap calculated in a different way than stock market cap?

In the stock market, a company with 1 million shares worth $1 has a market cap of $1 million. To raise market cap to $2 million it’s not enough to buy 10.000 shares for $2. 1 million shares would need to be bought for that.


This seems to me a reasonable explanation.

(BTW: I edited the subject of this post adding "seem to have been")

i do not know what happened maybe bitcoin is too expensive in buy so they switched to BCH and now BCH wow amazing price make me jump and i have 30 BCH hahhaha this is very fun

It's quite alarming, coupled with the fact that Bitcoin seems to be steadily dropping, but I don't think it's anything to worry about in the grand scheme of things. Somewhere above $5000 was Bitcoin's all time high just a few weeks ago, and we're still above that. I'm not ready to sound the alarm just yet.

One thing is for sure though, Bitcoin Cash backers have successfully created FUD with their Bitcoin Cash is the real Bitcoin talk. True Bitcoin supporters seem steadfast, as far as I can see, so I don't think this will last. The sooner it subsides, the better though.

I think this fall is just a temporary fall and BTC will increase in a few days, at first 6500 usd and then back to 7x00 usd where its price belongs.
Btw. you can create 20bn usd market cap easily i think, you dont have to have 20bn usd i guess.

The amount of money moving in there for it to fling 20% in one direction in literally a minute, that is huge.
take a look at this chart
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/302259269200248842/379161523450413057/Capture.PNG

I haven't said that. Technicaly to increase the general market cap you don't need to buy a million shares for that price. Market capitalization is calculated by multiplying the current price by the amount of shares (in case with crypto we have coins, whatever). So if someone buy a share for 2$ then the market cap of the company should rise. In some cases the market cap might be a pure fiction and it doessn't mean that you can drop all your shares for that price.

You are basicaly saying that you need to resell the company once again to make a new price. Just imagine what volume should companies have to perform the uual daily price changes when they need to do the full circle for a one price change step.

I see that this is just temporary pump and nothing can affect the bitcoin if something like this is happening. The drop in bitcoin and BCH pump might be coincidence I believe but they both have got no relation. There could be little group of BCH lovers who might be pumping the BCH by selling those BTC coins and thats why the result that we are seeing currently. But truly this spiking is just temporary and I believe it will drop badly in the time to come. Bitcoin seem to be moving around 6K since two days and I dont major dump in its price currently. But really hoping that it will go down a lot so that I can pile up a lot. :-) Not fan of BCH at all.

Yes I also notice that BCH market cap is increasing within a couple of days leading ETH for first time because of some exchanging their BTC for BCH which is giving a pump to total investment of BCH  but this is for a few time only as first bitcoin price gonna decrease but as soon as this scene go end BTC price will be stable and BCH will crash so just HODL it

Oh yeah! It would rise from $1.000.000 to $1.000.001 market cap.



No, I am saying that to increase that amount I was talking about in just one move it would need to be done like that. That is theoretically because to begin with, that move would need to be done out of the market in a takeover bid. Market cap do change according to % of trades carried out.

You are simple wrong. Read up about market cap.

The majority of the trading volume is taking place at Bithumb (Korean exchange).
Therefore the whole price discovery is highly manipulated, because Bithumb
offers account without fees and vouchers that enable zero fee trading.

This enables rampant wash trading by allowing you to buy and sell your own orders without
incurring any fees!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOWyc7eXcAAz6WR.jpg

I think with the feature of bitcoin cash having good transaction times and fees attracted users and also miners. But the thing here is that price pump is magnanimous, everyone is shocked on that pump and who would not think that this might be another scheme the investors are doing.

Is just that miners hyping BCH feature and bitcon is expensive when in terms of transaction fee.. All you have to is diversify buy always dip specially the king of all crypto Bitcoin.. It will go up in a few days

I also wondered today while saw the price of BCH was above $2100 while saw the price of BTC was $ 5500 and i am confused what we have to do now hold the bitcoin or just convert into BCH.But after that the bitcoin price is started to rise it gives me a little relief and i decided that just continue to hold my BTC whatever comes. :)

Just another pump and dumb of BCH, a big one for sure. There was another when BCH hit 1k and dropped down to 200$. Now everytime BCH goes down, bitcoin goes up, eventually BCH will crash hard and it will be worth a few hundred dollars again and Bitcoin will just recover, probably alt coins as well since they are really undervalued compared to Bitcoin.

There is a ton of FUD everywhere, check bitcoin reddit for example, tons of people saying BCH is going to take over, bla bla. There is also a strong theory that says Segwit2X was never going to happen, it was planned this way. After making a lot of profit with bitcoin, they used their profits to pump BCH and this definitely seems to be the case. Most people bought Bitcoin for the fork, there is no reason for them to switch from Bitcoin to BCH. The ones who planned this, pumped BCH in order to make even more profit and now comes the dump maybe with another pump before total crash. We will see.

This is going to be remembered as the most cruel battle on controlling bitcoin, both as a principle and as a protocol. It can't be only about money, it can't be as easy as that. I agree with you that the amount of FUD is unbearable

Yes, BCH has become the second highest grossing crypto pushing ETH to the third place since today. The price increase was also phenomenal and totally unpredictable. Recently one of my fellow members has pointed out a reason which points it as an organized attack on bitcoin network by some mining pools. Read it here,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2393479.0

It will provide some good insight on why the BCH price is increasing and I totally agree on the same. Without some organized attack on bitcoin network, this rise wouldn't have been possible.

Market cap rising 2 times doesn't mean that so much money has actually been poured into Bitcoin Cash overnight. It is a way, way lower than that. It is only a small fraction of all coins that get traded, therefore you don't need billions of dollars to raise the market cap that high. That's why this metric is misguiding. People think there are literally something like $30 billion dollars in the market but it is far from that in terms of real dollars.

You are right that it doesn't necessarily mean that 20b$ has been moved into Bitcoin cash, but you won't be able to add bilions to the market cap with millions, I guess that around 4-5 Billion dollars entered the cash market.

The market cap presents the total amount of tokens available (shares ) *last price, it doesn't mean that there is enough liquidity to buy all the shares at the last price, so if someone sell x amount of shares, it will probably cause the price to decrease/.

The market cap is the result of what people are willing to pay for the coins multiplied with the number of coins, the problem with that number is that does not reflect that billions of dollars were invested in the coin that only reflects what the potential market cap will be if every coin was bought which we know that is not the case, that is why many people prefer to look at the volume to know how much a coin is moving and as we can see while many have predicted the demise of bitcoin, bitcoin cash has a slightly lower volume in the last 24 hours but if we were to look at the volume since its creation bitcoin will have a lot more of it, that is why I’m not worried about this pump.

That is how you will define the word "hype" because of the hype and the FOMO of the people in the cryptocurrency market, the growth of the market capitalization of the bitcoin cash is being fasten and right now a lot of people are still hoping to make profits in bitcoin cash by jumping into the market of bitcoin cash.

I also don't know what's happening. I just got in this for the expected profits. I didn't sign in for all these forking drama!  ;D

I'm just gonna hold and let them do whatever they want to do, if they're gonna pump that, and so forth.

$20 billion? Seriously? But Bitcoin Cash market cap is only around $20 billion right now. So that means that most of that money was used for short selling and other margin trade. Another thing I have noticed is that most of the BCH volume is concentrated in a few of the East Asian exchanges - such as Bithumb & Coinone (South Korea), Bitfinex (Taiwan), and Huobi (China).

I just wanted to say that the volumes at Bithumb look fishy. Now it's obvious where the numbers come from, thanks for this.
I would be also curious on how many accounts this BCH group has on Bitcointalk and twitter to place the FUD.

Just as anticipated on which this bitcoin cash have been hyped up again after all on the cancelation of b2x fork event on this month of november. All coins do have the possibility to be hyped up and whales have decided to pump this Bitcoin cash as of now and for those who did bought before while the price is still low for sure they are securing profits already when the price tends to reach heights again thats was an easy money though.Not surprising but been wondering which coin would be the next to be hyped up. Anyone?

Obvious manipulation of bitcoin whales, which are the ones that manipulate the whole market at the end. Alts have been the vehicle of manipulation to accumulate more bitcoin for this whales. Look at this year's pump, alts pumped exaggeratedly only to be dumped the same way. Why? So whales could've profit from them getting ready for this bitcoin pump with the excuse of the forks. The cycle repeats, cheap alts for whales to accumulate and distribute next year.

That bitcoin pump we had for $7,700 was placing bitcoin at 120 billion market cap. Now the dump shows us that at $6,200 is at 100 billion, migrating those missing 20 billion to bitcoin cash. Never take the market cap as the very truth just as a reference of what could be brewing in the background.

This all looks like an exit pump for bitcoin whales to flow their capital into other coins. The daily chart looks like this bitcoin price dip is only a correction for a next possible leg up. The weekly looks like it made a doji to settle uncertainty and freak people out but I think uncertainty of where this is going to pop was already settle by the monthly chart, we have been the whole year in overbought monthly conditions that the fall in bitcoin price might be ugly and might be soon, but such as the rise in bitcoin cash or wherever these whales are planning in flowing their capital.

Total market cap is as of now, 198 billion dollars, 100 in bitcoin and 98 in alts. 50/50. I'm pretty positive that capital will be flowing to altcoins and if that's not the case, out of the market in the worse scenario but I don't see it coming back to btc and if it does, I see alts following too, to create another cycle.

This is the type of information which seems as if it should be publicized more.

In a way this might be described as a contest of philosophy. On one side there is bitcoin which has a design philosophy of producing long term value. On the other side there is bitcoin cash which has a design philosophy of using pump and dump market manipulation to produce short term profits at the expense of long term value.

Ethereum may have tried to exceed bitcoin's long term value by doing something similar earlier this year. Will history repeat itself?

I do not believe that people suddenly turned their attention to Bitcoin Cash and that's why his price sharply went up. I think that this pump is done specially

Yeah i just think this is a group of whales making loads of money .
This isn't because btc holders went to bch and that is why i think it will be unsustainable .

This is a clear manipulation on prices made by people who will benefit from it or the whales. Some people who supported the segwit2x fork but was frustrated because of it's cancellation opted to go to BCH to recover their losses. Don't get fooled by this person they will eventually sell their BCH and prices will go down.

I have red an article and it says that it was pre-planned and organised. This is an attempt to manipulate the value through catching the attention of majority. The sudden change in value cause people to panic and transfer their fund in bitcoin cash. Once the people behind this have done their intention, the value will once again back to normal. The same way BCH have pump it may also dump in sudden. In few days, bitcoin will once again regain its value.

And now 8 bi disappears from BCH :D. It is funny how easy is to manipulate the market

It was believed that the sudden change in price is manipulated. Probably, they have plan to make changes so that bitcoin value would be also show sudden change. It was made to make people panic and tranfer to bitcoin cash. Bitcoin cash is just a bubble, we could expect its sudden fall in the next few days and then regain bitcoin value. This are just rumors, bitcoin would remain on top. BCH could exceed etherium but not bitcoin.

Well firstly the money that has gone in to bitcoin cash has mostly come from bitcoin, secondly it does not mean $20bn has moved in to bitcoin cash, the price can be pumped with a few millions perhaps. The price will fall in time I suspect, like anything such a spike always precedes a correction.

I think that is the results of the work of roger ver, he talked a lot about non sense things for bitcoin cash that it will become the next bitcoin and that resulted for having a hype in the market and since people are attracted to hype they bite that bait and they are now mostly stuck in the market of bitcoin cash and now it is falling down and the hype is gone.

Well as I said, BCH is already being dumped, maybe waiting for another pump, probably not but one thing is certain, BCH seems more like a pump and dump coin than anything else. It has been like this since it started, first it was pumped to around 1k just to go down eventually to 200$ and now it was pumped again, much harder to get dumped just as hard, that's pretty much the whole history of the coin, I don't see people interested in BCH as a coin, I only see people buying it when it gets pumped and dumping it as soon as they can, sure that happens with bitcoin too but there are still a lot of people who will hold bitcoin almost no matter what. BCH is pretty much a scam, let's be honest, it's going to be worthless soon. The only thing holding it up is the name but that's about it.

The attack on bitcoin is almost over and every thing is going back to normal, bitcoin price is rising again which proves that bitcoin is strong enough to deal with such attacks. Besides, many people trusted bitcoin and didn't sell.
Anyway, we can't deny the role of rumors and also media impact in controlling the cryptocurrency market.

Yeah, funny money that were never there.
The whole 20 billion number is stupid since all the volume was below 15 during the pump.
Again and for the million time, market cap is irrelevant.


Far easier explanation:

I create an altcoin, 1 billion coins, it's traded at 1 cent. Market cap is worth 10 million.
Somebody decides to invest 1000$ and the price jumps to 2 cents. Market cap is now 20 million.
It has grown 10 millions with only 1000$ invested.

Now somebody decides to sell 100 coins but with no buyers cause it's a stupid coin the price drops to 0.5 cents.
Market cap has lost 15 millions with barely 100$.

Holy smokes, who'd have thought bitcoin cash will even go above 1000$? That's one of the main reasons why I personally feel crypto trading is better than stock market trading. A week ago, bitcoin's domination in the whole crypto capital was around 60%(As per https://coinmarketcap.com) ,and now that bitcoin cash started rising and bitcoin started falling, it's dominance fell to 53% ,that is a 7% blow to bitcoin, which in terms of money, goodwill is a lot of worth.

Market cap can be a misleading statistic. If bch was worth $1 and rose to $3 that would represent near to the amount of percentage growth of a $10 billion to $30 billion market cap increase. Depending of trading volume and pricing walls that might represent impressive growth. To represent true growth there would need to be a lot of buyers to maintain a consistent market cap without significant price devaluation as the number of buyers diminishes as often happens with many alts on dumps.

That appears to be what happened with bitcoin cash. Its price peaked and value decreases as the number of buyers diminish and interest wanes.

True you just need to buy and sell your own stash.  I think this is a mere manipulation of market.  If I have a huge amount of that coin and also have a huge amount of money, I can rally the price to go up just by stirring investors greed.  Once they saw movement, these people will start speculating and buy all the remaining sell order to take advantage of the current trend.  This way I can be able to push the price with minimal expenses.  Of course Media helps a lot too.

Yes they do and one of the biggest culprits was coindesk.com

They have a lot to answer for, it wouldn't surprise me if they were offered money to pump BCH and FUD Bitcoin, they could not produce new articles of FUD about Bitcoin fast enough, all over social media.

Anyone know who owns Coindesk? 

This was a clear manipulation on the prices of BTC and BCH that was made by the whales if you can see the current price BTC was able to regain its value in less than  a week, and BCH is now loosing its value. If you traded a huge amount of coin during the manipulation then calculate how much income did they earn,.

Their transactions times cannot attract any users because no one is using bitcoin cash to transact anything, only speculators are happy with this situation, they love a coin that moves a lot and bitcoin cash fits the bill, do not think even for a second that the market cap that bitcoin cash currently has is any indication of its acceptance among the users of cryptocurrencies.

Coindesk is owned by Digital Currency Group, you can find it on their Wikipedia page.
There have been quite a few other news outlets promoting Bitcoin Cash as well though, so it's not just Coindesk.

Heck, Coindesk might just be rehashing some of the news from other websites, they all do this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoinDesk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Currency_Group

Your understanding of the math is flawed. An increase in market cap does not represent a "dollar for dollar" relationship to the amount of money invested in the asset.

Each new dollar invested in an asset has an impact on all the dollars invested before it.

E.g., I invest $10 into an asset worth $1. Then someone invests $1000 when the asset is worth $10. The growth of my shares from being worth $1 to being worth $10 doesn't mean I invested a new $90 into the asset.