Bitcoin Forum

This is no FUD or advertisement for BCH, but I think we need a solution for the scaling problem now. (not because of the BCH pump and dump, but in general, just look at the mempool)

I had not much time in the past two months to follow up with the news and post in the forum, and my quick searches through the forum and google brought me no answer.

How far is the lightning network away from being activated?


I completely agree with this article:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/lightning-must-strike-soon-bitcoin-facing-backlogs-as-scalability-solution-awaited

I hope the Core devs will put other "blue sky" stuff on pause for the time being and just roll out a well-tested LN reference library ASAP. A reference library will allow independent developers to build their own LN apps/businesses. I think a lot of the crypto capital is getting sucked into ICOs right now but it only takes one visionary to see that a LN payment processor + secure LN client has virtually unlimited demand (hence, massive ROI).

I have the same question: is there any timeline for Lightning network? It is strange, that there is much discussion about the network and how great it will be, but no timeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCE2OzKIab8&feature=youtu.be&t=5h42m40s

Here you can hear 6 months, one year, 18 months..

To be fair it is not like they are building something that was done before. It might be hard to estimate how long it will take to test all the bugs and everything.
All I know is that these guys have been developing a client for it https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd (https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd) and that they updated the ReadMe file to check the last box for "Lightning Network Specification Compliance". I hope it comes soon, but there really isn't any information out there. Your best bet would be to go to one of the developers twitter and ask him there.

I do believe BTC, but challenges from altcoin is coming these years.
I not worry about BCH, but others.

Someone asked a similar question on the lightning-dev mailing list, apparently the different teams independently implementing their own software based on the Lightning protocol are now at a fairly late stage of their development paths: testing the interoperation of their separate Lightning implementations. How long that takes is down to them though. Maybe someone will do a launch in Q1 2018? Not sure tbh.

The Bitcoin Core developers are not the same people who work on the Lightning Network. Those working on the Lightning Network are a completely separate group of people, and there are several different groups of developers within the Lightning Network developers. Each group has their own implementation.

All of the people working on the Lightning Network are in the final stages of implementing everything. The lightning specification is still being finalized, and as that changes, so do the implementations. The implementations are usable and are actively being tested on testnet by many people, not just the developers. We are probably only a few months away from having LN on the mainnet as the developers are really just working on interoperability of clients and ease of use.

Thanks for that info.

The reason for my post is that I have stumbled across quotes from key Bitcoin people along the lines that "payment processing is just one part of Bitcoin, so people are freaking out for no good reason." I hope this is not a widespread view within Bitcoin devs (whether Core or others). While Bitcoin can and will do more than just payment processing, payment processing is, indeed, Bitcoin's killer app today. Reading between the lines, I think that Satoshi envisioned a potentially long runway for Bitcoin but adoption is growing much faster than I think anyone could have realistically anticipated in 2009. That means that the key people who are guiding development of key features of Bitcoin need to think more like a finance startup and less like a space research agency - get it done yesterday and the customer is always right! The risk of being non-competitive is that Bitcoin could get swamped out of the market by an inferior (as measured in terms of Bitcoin's core principles (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Principles_of_Bitcoin)) but more heavily capitalized competitor. While BCH is not yet a serious threat in this regard, it is a living demonstration of the dynamic that is at play, here. With growing adoption, Bitcoin is no longer just a technology, it is a social/economic phenomenon. It is in the nature of market competition that only the fittest survive, no matter how good the technology the non-fittest were using.

Lightening is when the head engages during pregnancy, positioning the baby lower and relieving the pressure on the lower rib cage. It usually happens around week 36.

But I guess you mean the lightning network. You know, as in thunder and lightning. Not sure why everyone misspells this.

Good to hear that things are coming along nicely. We have segwit now (since august) so in theory we would be able to implement Lightning network in a couple of months when it's completely finished and tested. Now that's great but in order to get it locked in and activated we would need consensus right? So would we have to go through a similar process like the process with segwit (1x)? Surely it can't be implemented straight away before getting approvement from miners, nodes and the community in general.

LOL.

You are wrong :)
There is no consensus needed for LN as there is no change to the protocol, not even a soft fork.
It is a second layer protocol that works on top of Bitcoin by using Bitcoin blockchain for security of it's transactions, but without need to place every single one on the blockchain. Just the opening of the channel and closing will have to be on the blockchain and they are valid Bitcoin transactions.

You can read more about it here https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-building-a-bidirectional-payment-channel-1464710791/ (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-building-a-bidirectional-payment-channel-1464710791/)

Thank you, I edited my post  ::)

I knew about core developers and lightning network developers are different group of people, but which one of those groups has the best testnet? As there are several groups of developers. The implementation of lightning network software uses an off-chain protocol. So, it's called off-chain because people can transact bitcoin among themselves in private channels, but only the final outcome of the transaction will be broadcasted to the Blockchain and processed by miners, right? I'm not sure about how we will use lightning network which seems strange for now, as segwit has been implemented for 2 months but has not been fully utilized.

Please no.

Leave "move fast and break things" to the snapchats and instagrams of the world. You don't want to apply these principles to an immutable ledger that moves billions of dollars worth of cryptocurrency each day. Any competitive edge that is gained by accumulating technical debt will break your neck sooner or later, even moreso with technologies such as Bitcoin.

It's a community effort, not an attempt to make a quick buck by burning venture capital just to get bought up by Google or Facebook further down the road.

I was really hoping to see @roasbeef's version of btcd pulled in for this 0.15.1 release. It didn't make it to this new build and I really hope it makes it into the next 0.15.2 Bitcoin Core wallet. Currently, to run LIghtning Networks "lnd" daemon it has to use roasbeef's btcd. Would be nice if LIghtning Network team members could stop by the forums here and let people know approximately how much time is left on this. We really need to start using SegWit and Lightning!

Hope it'll have a gui.

Reviving this because this: https://blockchain.info/de/tx/4777bde78c0d0aeefe76115857414efdec71bc239ecf0a6f1886691575909716 is a joke and I read the LN is already tested on the test chain.

I really like the ideology and concept of BTC and I am definitely no BCH supporter, BUT btc needs scaling. I know BTC has died a lot of times but now I think it could get serious.

Why do I think so?

Amazon and eBay are both seriously considering adding cryptos (not bitcoin, cryptos) as payment.

At the moment I think BTC would be a really bad solution (won´t pay 10$ for some X-mas present and buy 20$ fee on Amazon).

--> If Amazon and/or eBay adds some crypto I think at the moment the best solution would be ripple. 1500 tx/sec vs 3 tx/sec AND if ripple would be accepted by one of those, it would go to the moon and leave BTC behind, end of story  :(

OR LN finally comes to us and BTC might be again a currency.

Pls share your thoughts and share if you have knowledge of the current state of the LN

The public alpha release Daemon which is a full implementation of Lightning, capable of opening channels with peers, closing channels, completely handling all cooperative and non-cooperative channel states, maintaining a fully authenticated and validated channel graph, performing path finding within the network, passively forwarding incoming payments, and sending outgoing onion-encrypted payments through the network was made on 10 January 2017.

In December 2017 three different entities were working on creating software implementations, ACINQ, Lightning Labs, and Blockstream and in the same month test transactions had been made on the testnet.

You know, when something is rushed, it usually end up in failure. Just look at Bitcoin Gold and previous attempts at forking Bitcoin.

The LN developers know the risk and they are putting their reputation on the line, to put a secure solution on the table. < There are Billions of Dollars invested in Bitcoin, so this is a huge risk, not only for them >

People are blinded by the current situation that are being exploited to promote BCash and other Alt coins. <If the miners and the merchants did their jobs, we would not have had this situation>

The army of BCash shills are doing a good job of distorting the real cause of the current situation. <They simply focus on the problem and not the cause> 

18 months ^TM

Just wait and see. Long live the king BTC!

Here are some videos of people using Zap: https://twitter.com/ln_zap/status/949160102883405824

Zap (http://zap.jackmallers.com) is a Lightning Network wallet that helps users accomplish their goals with a great experience. Taking in complex protocol language and delivering a friendly interface where anyone can send and receive cheap and instant bitcoin payments.

 :)

I think it will be too late, there are newer coins with much better tech, and less centralized mining available.

With the core technological advantage of being invisible.

LN is activated already.
You can now use your LN node to pay for TorGuard on main net

It will ;)

The only reason those coins seem to have no scaling issues is because they lack scale to have scaling problems.

Wow, this is so true! No coin has security, decentralization and scalability at the moment, but they keep pointing their fingers on Bitcoin at all times.

Hopefully soon. I think LN and Segwit should be at the top of the list. It would definitely help with the mempool spamming and all other BS

Good to read this positivity and that is what has made all of this possible.
This community effort aims to free people from the uncertainties of central banking policies by giving them a medium of exchange and store of value that is completely in their control.
Though, the present reality is that new entrants and marketing is fast catching up. And these attacks are becoming shrewder by the day.
Isn't it something that needs to be dealt with in small steps? Should we opt for a concerted effort or it should be left to each individual to decide, as has been the trend for bitcoin?

I also think 18month is gonna be to late  it is slowly starting to look like btc is slowly losing its attractiveness
since major companies like windows and steam dont accept btc payment anymore since the
fees aatm are ridiculous! and very slow so something reaaaally needs to be done about this.

i mean bcc has 8mb which is pretty sick compared to the 1mb of btc
(not saying that bcc is better or worse just stating the facts)

Lightning is running on testnet and there was at least one lightning transaction on the main net last month. 

It is much closer than 18 months.  Whomever is saying 18 months now is likely trolling you at this point.  About 2 years ago people estimated about 18 months, and now we are nearly at 24 so it took a little longer than expected (SegWit's delay due to miners trying to block it certainly didn't help), but not significantly when you are aware of the volume of funds that could use it. 

Agree 100% and they can play around like ETH with block sizes or timing but the old steam engine will not
go much faster and scale.

Nothing at all wrong with block-chain but Lightning is a useless sticking plaster that looks like a scam
to me and I am far from alone in saying this and they can forget playing us along for a completion data
because it would only take seconds for the development team to put a quick fix in for the crazy fees we
are being forced to pay.

public static money MaxFee=1.50 // 20,000 is too many miners, those that  don't like the rule are free to leave

I can only assume that the dev team have become greedy and are owned by the
bankers. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g

Lets keep everything on the block and all we need is to use block-matrix to break the 200gb
of data down into a more manageable size and distribute that between nodes and yes it will
include some degree of centralization but no more than is being built into Lightning anyway

Already Bitcoin is full of scams so whats it all going to look like when half my data is on the
block and others parts are hidden away in private ledgers, do one thing or the other boys

Can't say it better. New coins are easier to use because they are not having the same amount of users like bitcoin does.
If that "new coin" would reach such a demand, we could expect scaling problems, traffic and high fees too.
There is nothing to scale because it's not as popular as it is.
We can never say another coin is better that bitcoin. No one can.

That is understandable, Bitcoin happens to be the flagship cryptocurrency and parades the largest community. In the future and by what time Bitcoin must have moved on, we shall be seeing most of these acclaimed substitutes of Bitcoin bending over to lace their shoes and evidently Ethereum has began to feel the heat already.

The dev-team is simply trying to do this more professionally than increasing blocksize and risking decentralization long term. There could be some sort of fee cap? But then how do the miners who aren't generating the coinbase block get compensated?

If the idea of opening and closing time-bound payment channels becomes widely used by merchants and users alike, then there really isn't a reason that it won't work. Its already demonstrated on the testnet. I am positive about the difference that LN can make.

Could you elaborate on that block-matrix thing? One thing to keep it in mind that the payment hubs cannot steal your BTC. whether thats possible in alternate implementations or not?

Bitcoin gold isn't exactly a failure. Even Bitcoin Cash. They are two of the succesful cryptocurrency's that was created within Bitcoin's fork. A fail project will not even have a single cent of a value. I'm not a fan of those two coins mentioned, but we have to show some love with other alternative cryptos as they are the reason why the digital economy is booming these days. Of course, Bitcoin is the pioneer and will stand strong for years. However, without the creation of either Litecoin, Ethereum, DASH, etc. will it still have a movement of its price? I don't think so.

Not true. There's a large pool of "dumb buyers" in crypto right now.

A failed project is measured not by a coin's value but by a coin's markets and utilization.

In simple terms - which vendors accept it for payment?