Bitcoin Forum

Why should all highly wealthy people be excited about Bitcoin? It offers several "superhero" attributes that make it the ultimate store of wealth for people who are rich enough that the possibility of confiscation or even public knowledge of their wealth becomes a major issue eclipsing whatever volatility and other risks Bitcoin may have.

https://i.imgur.com/Jv8oSut.png

Note 1: I consider the superhero attributes for high net-worth individuals to be:

• Complete immunity to confiscation (capital controls, border seizures, account freezes upon arrest, etc.)
• The possibility of complete secrecy of the size of your holdings (the Rothschilds will like this ;D)
• The unprecedented combination of teleportability and lack of counterparty risk ("all gold's freedom from counterparty risk, but instantly transferable anywhere in the world" - teleportable gold).

Note 2: Chart made in 5 minutes at Compare Ninja (http://compareninja.com/tables/wizard). Feel free to copy/modify at will.

This is a great attribute comparison.  Already on Twitter

How come bitcoin holdings are unknowable and dollar and gold holdings aren't in your chart?
Seems to me like the only way your holdings can be unknowable is if you do person-to-person transactions outside of a legal framework, which works for dollars, gold and bitcoin alike.

A similar article appeared recently:
http://www.thegenesisblock.com/refuting-the-ecb-the-9-characteristics-that-make-bitcoin-money/

These charts are interesting, but mainly for the bias shown by the constructor and the negatives that are missing for Bitcoin, such as:

- Can you actually spend it easily on food/homes/cars?
- Is there a risk it will double or half in the next month?
- Is there an (even slim) risk it might not exist at all in 10 or 20 years?
- Can you lose it by being hacked or through computer errors?

Also 'No counterparty risk' thats BS, when I spend my dollars via a debit/credit card I have huge protections, sending Bitcoin I have none.

I'm not being negative against Bitcoin, but it seems that 99% of people on here just want to post the positives.......

No its not.  The 'no counterparty risk' is about being able to hold your asset safely, not about whether or not you can trust the other party when you are making a transaction.

So how is it you know how many dollars i have in my wallet?

Fair point, though the feature set here is supposed to be about offshoring money for HNWIs, no daily spending. Yeah, I put a few things like that in there, but they can just as well be removed. Such a person is probably not going to be shopping with BTC at this point unless they're a cryptocurrency enthusiast.


Note that I said, "Why should all highly wealthy people be excited about Bitcoin? It offers several "superhero" attributes that make it the ultimate store of wealth for people who are rich enough that the possibility of confiscation or even public knowledge of their wealth becomes a major issue." That is, becomes enough of a major issue that it overshadows Bitcoin's volatility and existential risk.

And this is exactly the point: NO OTHER ASSET provides these superhero attributes, so it would be crazy for a very wealthy person not to have some significant amount of money in Bitcoin. It's simple. If you don't hold bitcoins, all your wealth could be wiped out by a government moving against you; if you hold Bitcoins, sure you could lose them all, but your risk is mitigated in a way that nothing else can do for you.

Millions? Billions? Doubtful... see the point?

i get the point but those are the features for everyone, obviously.

just because someone stands to gain or risks more with more money, the risk % of holding fiat is similar if you have 1 or 1,000,000. "losing half its value" is clearly diff for each.

but the tone, title and the chart saying FEATURES FOR RICH PEOPLE? zzz.

i'm also not thrilled about the implication that BTC is the next great scumbag tool, no matter what the implications on liberty/freedom.

Bitcoins certainly offer a lot for anonymity, but with the recent downturn in prices I wouldn't keep my money in them. But then again, like most people in this insane society, the only money I have goes toward food & shelter.

And to mine bitcoins, I mean really mine them, you need a powerful computer with a powerful graphics card -- another "superhero" feature many like myself cannot afford.

I really think the term, "superhero features" should really be "superwealthy features".  :(

Ya think, maybe? I notice there aren't 20 threads going about the fact that you can't withdraw US $ out of Gox or BitInstant anymore or that all miners are considered MSBs now and are risking jail time if caught. But you can't put that in your chart. That would be a negative.

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130620.html (https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130620.html)
http://blog.bitinstant.com/ (http://blog.bitinstant.com/)
http://www.thegenesisblock.com/town-hall-discussion-with-gavin-andresen-and-patrick-murck/ (http://www.thegenesisblock.com/town-hall-discussion-with-gavin-andresen-and-patrick-murck/)

The reason it especially applies to (very) wealthy people is 1) they stand to lose the most money from their portfolio not having these superhero abilities and are most likely to come under scrutiny for the amounts they'd like to hide or teleport, and 2) they have the leeway to allocate parts of their portfolio to a greater variety of stores of value.

Certainly Joe the Plumber getting arrested and having his $100k in savings frozen and inaccessible while he's in jail or trying to hire a lawyer or move people on the outside, he will be very glad he had some in BTC. But HNWIs have a higher standard for comfort and security, so preparing for all eventualities tends to be higher on their list of priorities, and some of those eventualities can only be prepared for with Bitcoin.

I'm offering no judgment on the behavior of fat cats or criminals, just pointing out that once these people understand Bitcoin they'll realize they have to have some - and that does good things for all BTC holders.

Well, if you take ninja precautions and they don't seize your paper wallet, USB sticks or offline computer holding the keys

Exactly.

Also if you knew many HNWIs or UHNWIs then you'd know that they very rarely hold the assets directly themselves and are well-advised by lawyers, accountants or family offices. They might buy Bitcoins in bigger numbers when you can buy them at a large global institution who will guarantee their security and when they have been professionally advised they are good value, as a part of an overall portfolio.

Bitcoin eliminates the very need for them to rely on others. In fact, this just adds further weight to my point that Bitcoin provides unique options for HNWIs that they can get nowhere else.

Strange, I'm on a smartphone and can see it all. Here's the original: https://i.imgur.com/Jv8oSut.png (https://i.imgur.com/Jv8oSut.png)

No sorry I don't see the point.  If I have a big pile of dollar bills (or gold bars) in the other room how is that "knowable" (according to your chart it is knowable)

It may be hide-able, technically, but the level of insane you'd have to be to actually store millions or billions in your home or wallet only further underscores my point. Bitcoins are hide-able with no risk of theft.

There is always risk of theft, unless you memorize the private key in which case you have the risk of forgetting, or losing the ability to remember because of injury or disease.

It's not very difficult to hide cash or gold.  IMHO you'd be far more insane to store millions or billions worth of Bitcoins in a "brain wallet" than you would to dig up your floor boards and stick bunch of gold bars down there.

If of course the goal is to hide a store of value.

My point being that your chart is incorrect to say that Dollar/Gold holdings are "knowable" and Bitcoin holdings are "unknowable"...this is simply false..."technically" or otherwise.

Fast transactions in person should not say 10 to 60 minutes. Even if you wait 2 seconds your transaction has a better chance of getting through than pretty much any other mechanism (especially credit).

The amount of time you wait is arbitrary. "Confirmations" are not what make the transaction go through, only make it more implausible that they don't. See here (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=218425.0).

Here's why I can't agree: If you get searched, your gold and dollar bills are find-able, hence knowable; as long as you simply make sure you know your private key, your bitcoins are not find-able nor is their existence knowable.

I'd set bitcoin no-counterparty-risk to "Only if you hold it yourself".

The privacy part is somewhat subjective.  Bitcoin transactions are not truly anonymous.

I keep seeing all these new altcoins, but non of them (AFAIK) anonymizes and fixes the blackchain scalability problem.