Bitcoin Forum

The IRS has broken Bitcoin anonymity.

Apart from the obvious impact on criminals, this also means that all Bitcoin investors will be forced to pay taxes of their earnings. And be fined for past Bitcoin earnings they have not reported.

https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/08/28/bitcoin-loses-anonymity-irs-tracks-bitcoiners-new-blockchain-analysis-tools/

I know right, this is so annoying. Paying tax in whatever way possible, trying to get our money. :( Looking from IRS's perspective though, it is only fair to implement this tax, especially to rich investors who can abuse Bitcoin if without tax to evade it, which harms the country. I do agree that this breaks anonymity, which defeats the purpose, unless you go full anonymous and spend things online without a trace, and don't withdraw it.

Please tell how rich investors can abuse Bitcoin?

As long as you stay clear from any exchange that would operate in a country that like to play with the US, then you can still not be identified. But ofcause we know the best exchanges all do the KYC. So they can trance your transactions.

However is it not only fair that you pay your taxes like all other citizens.

Well, as long as we are doing business in this world and we are still under the overarching power of the government, we have no choice but to pay taxes as computed by those in the authority. However, this is not peculiar to Bitcoin as all of us have to pay our taxes whether we like or not. I am just particularly disturbed how the IRS is using a tracking technology for them to determine if a person is declaring his/her Bitcoin transactions and possible gains subject to tax. We should really realize that the government can get so creative in doing their job as mandated by the constitution of the country...should we then do anything possible (as long as legal) to pay the least amount of tax?

i've never seen bitcoin billed as tax free. it's never been billed as anonymous.

it's quite obvious to anyone that tax is due depending on where you live just as it is for almost everything else on this planet.

your concern trolling really needs upping a notch beyond the painfully obvious.

 

Isn’t that is good news actually. Because see man if the people keep investing into bitcoin and they never return the money into bank accounts then that would be chaos for the national development. I mean how you will explain the thing that bitcoin investment is helping in the national economy development or what if you don’t see any good roads, any good services of government and then blame it agin for the same purpose. But this all could be changed if the bitcoin is taxed. Because know very important thing that most of the investment now a days is going into bitcoin which is from couple of thousands to millions of dollars and it must be tracked because we are loosing the treasury funds really. So hope that we will together to help build better bitcoin. The anonymity is juts imaginary, your each move still can be tracked with logic. ;-)

It is a normal thing for a person to get taxed for the amount which comes to their bank account as per the rules and regulations of the particular country so i don't think that this is a big issue to get taxed for the cash in their account and as everyone know that btc is a public ledger and everything is done as public and not as private so its not a big deal and as far as we stay clean from our side its not an issue .Tax is there on what ever we do as the government and the nation is being run by the support of tax as it is one of the main source of income for the nation.

I'm sure nobody was expecting to make tax free money forever. This is actually not that bad in my opinion, means IRS is recognizing bitcoin and the money you make off of it as legitimate income.

Now you have to flee to tax free heaven.
Panama papers, here we go again

Bitcoin were never created to circumvent paying taxes. If you want full anonymity, you should rather use another Alt coin. Governments will ban

Bitcoin, if people use it as a tool to avoid paying taxes. In my country, Bitcoin is taxed under "Capital Gains"..... so I just pay the damn governments

their share and avoid going to jail.  >:( .....DO NOT mess with tax owed to your government.... they will throw you in jail.  :(

I welcome that move by IRS. I will welcome if my country takes the similar step. Taxing on bitcoin earning means, it is taking another step forward towards main stream inclusion. I am sure a lot of people wouldn't mind paying taxes on their bitcoin earning because it will save them from many legal hassles in future. Also it will help curbing crime and terrorism funding.

I have been earning bitcoin since a long time now. I have already reported my bitcoin earning to my tax information form under the head "Income from other sources". Here earning means the amounts I have cashed out to my bank account and not the entire bitcoin holding. I keep track on whatever I cashout through out the year and report the amount to the tax information sheet. So this bitcoin income counts as a legal earning and not black money.  

This isn't particularly new information, other than the IRS have formally contracted with ChainAnalysis.
THe IRS have not 'broken' anything.
They make it sound as if they've hacked Bitcoin, it's click bait.

The FBI were busting people using SilkRoad back in 2014 and tracked drug dealers via bitcoin transaction history.

Of course if you use an Exchange you give up identifying information to them.

Your public key/address is visible and the blockchain is public information.
If you are looking for greater anonymity then you need to employ additional techniques.

I wouldn't mind paying taxes on the capital gains made from Bitcoin. But, it's kind of apparent that the Federal banks and Central banks would soon get their hands on chainanalysis tools. Also I believe if we continue to retain our Bitcoins without selling them for our national fiat, then probably capital gains wouldn't be a problem. The only thing now is, I hope regulation happens soon and that Bitcoin isn't banned for exchange or for use as a medium of payment.

Also, the fundamental way of identifying the transactions to the user is because of some form of identification or private information attached with it either at the time of buying Bitcoins (by linking your Tax ID) and probably your bank information. I'm guessing this would be hard to avoid in the future, when exchanges like localbitcoins might become an illegal way of exchanging without ID?

Yes but in my country you always had to pay tax for bitcoins i believe that is how it worked around my country because we pay tax for almost everything but the government uses the money well to make new roads and buildings so it is fine.

That's one of the most shocking news of 2017. :o

Clickbait. From the article:
So, this is coming from the website (bitcoin d o t com) owned by Roger Ver (CEO of BCH). Yeah, this is most likely the next stage of FUD about Bitcoin coming from owners of the altcoin BCH, 'Roger & Co' . I wonder how much did they have pay to the "technocracy.news" team and the "shtfplan.com" team to put out those articles?.

But I highly doubt the IRS has broken btc anonymity, I think they'd rather spend all their resource to put some kind of regulations on Bitcoin, and it's going to happen soon or later, but to try to get rid of btc anonymity? I don't think so. If they did do it, then the darknet markets wouldn't exist.

Coming from the stock market, I don't necessarily mind paying my fair share in taxes. Nobody likes paying them, but it also keeps the country moving in a somewhat straight direction.

I can't understand what's the problem? If they track bitcoin transactions it is not a reason for user charges in tax evasion. If the user exchanges the bitcoins for Fiat you don't need to keep track of bitcoin transactions. Banks provide information to tax authorities and they do not need to search for users. If it is possible to buy goods without exchange for Fiat we are now out of reach for them.

That’s an unpopular but very true statement. When it is someone else’s money, we all want everyone to pay their taxes, but when we make money suddenly it seems unfair!

That said, I bought my bitcoin in 2013/14 and live in Germany, so my profits will be tax free :-)

The anonymity is something that can be used for both good and bad reasons, but since people think that crypto is a "nobody tracks me" world they think is a safe haven for criminal activities. Losing part of your profit to the IRS isn´t that bad compared to losing all your hard earned bitcoin to a hacker who invade your privacy, steal your private key and now are spending your money. If they can be tracked and put behind bars as well, then the lack of anonymity may also have a positive side.

For as long that there is an anonymity with Bitcoin then it is fine with me and for some other people as it is true that there is no 100% anonymous thing in this world because someone will go find a way to know such things if they want to. If this news is true then I think some people that uses Bitcoin to launder their moneys in the real world will think a much more effective way to hide their assets.

Let's see what will happen with this anonymity issues with Bitcoin as it will may upgrade by the developers soon.

There is no definitive point at which Bitcoin's anonymity (which by the way never existed at all) is "broken".

Bitcoin's pseudonymity is the responsibility of the user.  It's common sense that blockchain analysis can be used and that governments may use it to help with tax.

Your arguments rely on a series of straw man fallacies and surface-level analysis which you then shove down our throats quite intensively.

If that article is true about being fined to bitcoin holders for their past earnings, that would be a headache and that would be a large amount of tax most for the larger holders and investors of the btc that is bad news for us.

But the good news is the proper regulation for the petty criminals who are using blockchain for their own illegal transactions and their hidden wealth will be revealed by the new analysis tool of IRS. I think the use of bitcoin anonymity service like VPN on the internet will be popular if the tool will be implemented thus countering the IRS tracker.

While I agree that taxes need to be paid, maybe the IRS should focus on the large tax cheats that already exist and openly cheat versus the comparatively low number of crypto owners who are mostly holding.
Oh, right, they're too busy using their antiquated infrastructure and systems to be bothered to pay for that.

This was likely actually done by the Department of Treasury anyway, which is good. They're the ones who need to be addressing any issues with criminality and crypto.
That is something I have no issue with.
Illegal activity will be moved to the anonymous coins and spread out amongst them, unfortunately.

I think that no one imagined that bitkoyn would never be taxed. Everyone must pay tax on profits from their activities. If we hide behind anonymity and evade paying taxes, the state will simply be forced to prohibit bitokoyn. Therefore, if we want the state to be loyal to bitkoyu, we must pay a tax so that the state functions and bitokoyn functions. In addition, if the tax is exchanged automatically for the usual money without the identification of identification data, then anonymity will be respected.

If the tax come to Bitcoin, i will start to feel better and safer. I always think about that. Because when we pay tax the bitcoin will become legalised. I wait for the tax to come.

Actually this should worry those who uses bitcoin for illegal stuff, also bitcoin was never meant for tax free..

The IRS is always greedy in any case, and they start teasing bitcoin. This needs further action in order for the IRS to not intervene more deeply.

That's very true, the illegal part. With this happening, it may just turn people away from using bitcoin on deepweb and switch to some alt-coin andclear bitcoins name for what is mostly known, a coin that's been used for nothing else than for drugs and other illegal stuff. Also with this about anonymity, less countries might be banning bitcoin with taxing available.

I think it can't happen. Bitcoin is built based on Blockchain technology. No one can change or remove it. Dont worry

Bitcoin transactions always recorded in blockchain and everyone can see it, that's why bitcoin isn't fully anonymous but pseudonymous. However, bitcoin users can still be anonymous as long as you are not dealing with exchanges which require id verification. Government have to regulate cryptocurrencies as Million of dollars involved in this environment, and every country has a different perspective about crypto regulations. If you're a bitcoiners who lives in the US, then the IRS has required you to pay taxes for capital gains, but if you live in Japan, no need to pay taxes for capital gains.

First, Bitcoin is really not anonymous, it is instead a crystal clear transparent and if you have linked your identity to an address, you will definitely be found.  I do not mind paying taxes, it is our duty as responsible citizen to the government.  I think there will be no problem if we just give what is due to the government.  After all we are under their "protection".  ;D

This made me cringe in a very bad way and turned my bright thanksgiving day to a not-so-good one. I just can't believe that we seek anonymity and use BTC to cater that need but the government just barged in and deliver a sophisticated blockchain tracking tool to get our taxes so that their already-fat bank accounts become bigger and bigger. I know that they are just around the corner waiting for the best opportunity to do this but I didn't expect it to be this early. People around the globe are just starting to to take notice of BTC and out the blue, IRS made an entrance saying that they'll tax us. Shoutout to the company that made the tracking tool and sold it to the IRS. Hopefully, the money that you made out of it will treat you and your family better.  ;D

Bitcoin is only pseudo anonymous and not fully anonymous.It was already created in a manner so that all the transactions are registered in a public ledger.It was already an expected move from the governments that one day they would start tracking bitcoin transactions for taxing purpose.Bitcoin has grown in to a very big business and so,the governments would not be willing to loose such huge revenues from taxing bitcoin earnings.

One step closer to restricting people who hold bitcoins and make them pay taxes in future. Of course, exchanges who require driver license or your passport before being able to trade make it clear that there's no anonymity in the blockchain. Blockchain itself is anonymous. But people can restrict its usage to make other's track you.

I doubt tracking Bitcoin will be that easy for governments if you consider the availability of mixing technologies. Wealthy & skillful people could even use better tech to make things impossible to track.

I guess the only way governments may track Bitcoin successfully is at the "point of Entry & Exit"  i.e when people buy & sell through legal exchanges.

nothing about bitcoin anonymity has changed. it is still not-anonymous as before.
and not much has changed about the ways they can track bitcoin transactions. the same methods for chain analysis still apply as they were applying in 2009!

it's just that OP is trolling because he bought bitcoin at $7500 and sold based on some FUD in the dip @$5500 and now he is butthurt because price is rising :D

From what I've learned. Bitcoin anonymity isn't broken, it is stated in Bitcoin.org (https://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know) that Bitcoin is not completely anonymous at all from the start, meaning, some government can still track you because of the transactions in blockchain. Well, you can still get anonymous depending on how you use Bitcoin.

The anonymity of bitcoin is a fairy tale. I don't believe in it. We can always track our online activities. Almost all bitcoin users exchange them for Fiat to make purchases in stores. These transactions easier to track. Some exchanges and online wallets require you to provide a passport for registration. We are all under the hood.

its totally about short term capital gain and long term capital gain

That is bit upsetting if we don't look at the broader perspective . Anonymity is the "prominent"  attribute of Bitcoin . The very definition of bitcoin is leaving no trace of the transactions . By this step of IRS , bitcoin could loose its inventiveness . People go for bitcoin because they want easy bucks with no taxes .
But if we look at the scenario from the perspective of IRS , this might turn out to be a very beneficial step for the world's development and economy .
There would be track of all the criminal activities going on in context to "dark web " . Moreover , this would also not let the rich investors play their filthy tricks in order to get a huge profit . But , i hope for different earnings of bitcoin they have a different tax system . One must not be in a facing a heavy financial retardation because of the heavy taxes imposed .

I also don't agree in putting taxes on bitcoin. What seems to be the problem, bitcoin is alternative to banking. I think banks will not disappear even if bitcoins exists. Fees are enough to settle it with but taxes are too much. People still pay taxes because of regular jobs. Or if people decided to make a business out of their profits then taxes are necessary. I don't think taxes for bitcoins is needed because sooner it will be in the system too.

OP: I suggest you look into becoming a citizen of Liberland, the first ever nation on the blockchain as Ivan put it. Taxes are optional in Liberland.

Liberland: https://liberland.org/en/about

Ivan on Tech video interview with Liberland's president: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgDeyhW7zjc

You are a genius :D If paying tax is optional in Liberland, We might as well decide not to pay any tax ever. Ho would you run a country with people in it if you don't have enough money for maintaining public services? People are paying their taxes as usual, Cryptocurrencies are not costing governments any thing extra. If you are not using services such as Coinbase, Your government will never know that you have any bitcoins.

This was to be expected. Everything is taxed. Here they find a place to earn extra money. It is a pity that everywhere a man has to be cherished. This is sad ...

The government will always find away to get their taxes when its come to money whether we like it or not.As far as you will convert your crypto to fiat currency they most have there way to their taxes.

I'm not sure if anonymity was broken but regardless of that fact I have no problem paying my taxes, paying taxes means I made money and I am willing to contribute my fair share to the country to help a functioning society.

Is there any country that has begun to study bitcoin's taxes? I think a lot of countries will be paying taxes on bitcoin in the future. After all, it's a very profitable thing to do.

Bitcoin is considered as income and property, in that case governments and tax experts can impose tax on it.
 The Internal Revenue Service is on the hunt for people who used Bitcoin to evade taxes.
But this thing would be a disturbance for the investors for bitcoin.
Paying taxes might affect interest of investors and it might affect also the value of bitcoin. Well we have nothing to but obey the governments rule than to be put into imprisonment.

Did any of you actually read the article? It's one of those articles against Bitcoin written by altcoin supporters so obviously it makes sense that it will portray Bitcoin in a negative sense. It's very exaggerated and you don't need to actually read the whole thing just a quick scan through and you will see what I mean. The little drama fairy was heavy on the dust there. They also never said bitcoin will be taxed I wish people would listen. When you convent bitcoin to fiat then you are taxed if it's over a certain amount per year or month. You should actually know about these things before commenting. You don't have to report your exchange activity to anyone that is your business in everyone sense of the word. You just need to report what you cashout in fiat. I can't believe some people think the government needs to know every little thing. They don't look at that only if there is a problem. They don't have time to do that when there are millions of people to go through. You just report your earnings as in what went into your bank account and how it got there for example from trading. You don't have to report which coins you traded and for how much profit. You report when you convert it to fiat. Otherwise everything would be much too complicated and unnessesry. I promise you the government is not out to get crypto currency users.

This article is written to bring fear so they make the government and IRS look like that will hunt you don't. I'm no fan of the government but even I know that is ridiculous. What will get the attention of the IRS is the following:

Large transactions to your bank account.
Constant transactions over a long period of time that constantly go over the limit and qualify for tax.
You buy a new house that is a little too nice for the IRS liking.
You buy a fancy car.
Overseas travels out of the blue.

Things that won't get you under IRS/government watch:

Buying a big screen TV, sound system, computer, old car ect ect (within reason)

So just report your profits when you withdraw to fiat and pay whatever amount your government wants in your country and then you done. If you want to know what tax % you will pay then you must look at "capital gains tax" in most cases.

Incognito is a great feature that people remember about bitcoin. If the anonymity of the bitcoin is really detected, this is a sad news. I need to verify this story. Please share more about the article you read about this issue for everyone to consult.

Here he is again posting another FUD inducing article. Your link is already 3 months old, so i don't get it why are you posting it and pumping it real hard to other members here. TAX is for the people who cashing out their Bitcoin and that's applicable to exchanges, and for another note you should know that exchanges collects information (KYC) and just like coinbase who denied to the request of IRS to get the information of coinbase customers.

Yes, this has been getting circulated long back. Bitcoin is already partially anonymous, because the transaction can be traced and the end users cannot be identified. When it comes to taxation, people who cash out bitcoin were taxed based on the transaction volume and this has been into effect long back itself in several countries.

What the Hell, You really have to pay tax and declare your earnings on Bitcoin , specially if you will cash it out on exchanges, i don't see the problem on it, the only problem here is the IRS want to collect all the information of the customers which is invading their privacy, and the regulation for Bitcoin is not even finalized.

Incidentally bitcoin is broken, all those who are complaining bitcoin have to pay taxes, it greatly affects the property or the amount of investors
Bitcoin is a virtual currency based on customers and investors, not international money. Bitcoins do not have to pay taxes to countries where bitcoin is available. :o :o :o

There is still some good news from this even though a lot of people might not agree but from this point it then means that there is some form of legality to bitcoin and not illegal as some people might want to paint it. A lot of people actually want to pay tax and disclose their income but they don't know how to go about it because of the dicey nature of the interpretation of the law but with this, we are sure to know which side of the law we belong to.

The concern I will have is going back to tax what was not known is like a punishment which I feel should be suspended or else, users will start looking for new ways to break the law.

Taxes are the backbone of any economy. Government runs the economy on the collection of taxes that is the main source of income for them. So no government of any country will let its citizens to earn income without paying taxes. Bitcoin is the fastest growing cryptocurrency, same is with its value. People are earning good income from bitcoin trading, but being a virtual currency it is difficult for government to impose tax on it. In USA income generated from cryptocurrency is treated as ccapital gain, and taxes get imposed. Same is the case in India where no clear guidelines are there from finance department, so income will taxed flat 20% as Capital gain.

I guess since bitcoin value grew past 9k$ they are trying to bring it down through their evil machinations and ploys. It's always been their stock in trade to spread false rumours and FUD's in order to persuade the faint hearted  to sell off their bitcoins. This trick used to work but in recent times it backfires because bitcoin rises back up after each tumble.

Your post literally makes no sense.