Bitcoin Forum

I have a preorder for four Avalon batch 2 ASIC bitcoin miners. I wish to sell only one of these units. I might consider selling a second if the asking price is high enough.

Here are specs for the Avalon batch 2 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139704.0): >= 60 GH/s and about 6.6 ~ 6.7 watts per GH/s, i.e. >= 400W.

Here are screenshots of my order (http://imgur.com/6L92I21) and payment (http://imgur.com/8d5sbmy). (If you're wondering why one's on a Mac and another on a PC, this is because they were taken at different times: see my earlier thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242766.0) for the explanation.)

Rules:
1. The currency for the auction will be bitcoins. The first bid will be 60 BTC. Each subsequent bid will be at least 1 BTC greater than the previous bid. The exchange rate between bitcoin and other currencies will be irrelevant, unless something drastic happens to the bitcoin currency such that the value of one BTC drops below US$1, in which case the auction will be deemed null and void.

2. Payment will be by John K. escrow (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141672.0). I will pay the escrow fees. I will be very suspicious of anyone wanting to pay by another method, except possibly for people wanting to collect locally.

3. By placing a bid, you agree to pay John K. (escrow) the winning bid amount within 72 hours (3 days) after the auction ends, but this will be considered to be merely a deposit until I receive the miner from Avalon (see rule 6). You may make your bid subject to seeing more evidence from me that the preorder is mine (e.g. the unpixellated screenshots or confirmation from BtcDirect (https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/BtcDirect/) of localbitcoins.com which is the party who processed the payment to Avalon for me when I ordered) in which case you must state what evidence you wish to see in your post (see rule 7) or PM me about it.

4. You pay shipping. I am based in Bedford, United Kingdom. When I have the unit, I will ship as soon as I humanly can (probably within 24 hours and certainly within 48, not counting Sundays) by your chosen method. I will certainly ship to any address in Europe, any primarily English-speaking country, or Japan, but I reserve the right to refuse to ship to some other countries. Obviously I won't expect you to honour your bid if I refuse to ship to your chosen country. If a totally or partially tracked or insured method of shipping is available to your address for a reasonable fee, you must select this shipping method instead of an uninsured/untracked method. Shipping price will be in British pounds sterling, obviously, and payment method is negotiable. I would prefer PayPal or Nochex but if you want we can agree on a GBP / BTC conversion rate and you can add it to amount you pay John K. Again, I will pay any fees required to receive the payment (e.g. PayPal fees or whatever) up to a maximum of 4% + 50p.

5. The auction ends when I announce (on this thread) that it is ended. I will try to make sure that this is a few days before I receive the unit to allow time to finalise shipping details etc so that I can turn it around the moment it arrives. I will end it sooner if the bidding slows to a trickle and the price has stabilised. But see rule 6 for assurance that the auction will not go on forever.

6. At any time, you can retract your bid for one reason and one reason only: that I have not yet received the unit and you are fed up waiting or you believe Avalon will never deliver. As soon as the auction ends you should deposit your money with John K. When I receive the unit, or become aware that reception is imminent, I will inform John K. of the expected delivery date (the date it is delivered to me, not you). At any time before this, you can say you are fed up waiting and ask John K. to return your money, but then there will be no further opportunity to buy hardware from me in the future. But do not bid expecting to cancel: serious bidders only please. The only reason you can cancel is that Avalon has not yet delivered the ASIC to me. As soon as I receive it, I will despatch it to you (I expect to have your delivery address and John K. to have your funds by this point) and thereafter the sale is final and the unit's safety is the responsibility of you and the carrier. (I will of course cooperate with the carrier regarding their claim procedure should something go wrong.)

7. Bids to be made in this thread, simply by stating your bid amount, which should be at least 1 BTC higher than the previous highest bid. If you wish, you may also state your country of delivery and/or whether you would be interested in buying a second unit, and what price you would pay for the second (which may be lower than what you would pay for the first). Bids may not be made by private message. PMs to be used only for additional information or questions, such as your delivery address or requests for further evidence from me. Your main bid amount must be stated in this thread publicly.

8. Although only the highest bid will be legally binding, I will expect the second highest bidder to remain in contact for two reasons: i) in case the highest bidder proves to be uncontactable or illegally withdraws from the auction and fails to put the winning bid amount on deposit with John K., and ii) if the price is high enough I may offer a second unit for sale. I will contact the second highest bidder either way as soon as I can after the end of the auction so you are not kept waiting unnecessarily.

--------------------------------------------

The highest bid so far is: (no bids yet) (updated approximately daily)

No disrespect, but why blank out the blockchain info, you cant see the addresses - I dont think that proves anything. Also the amount on the order is not the same as the "payment" screen....

Either I smell a fish or I'm missing something

https://blockchain.info/en/address/19qFqovtjezvcjf3SFRFq6EkePTuY2uA3x
It took me 2 minutes to figure out the address :D

ok, I'll start the bidding and bit 60 BTC.

61BTC

62BTC

watch

I'll bid 65 BTC

66

When does your auction end?

point 5

66

Deng, it looks like I can no longer edit my first post. I guess you'll all just have to scroll to the last page to find out the current bid (currently 66 BTC).

Kudos to tom1 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245629.msg2604404#msg2604404) for working out the payment address. 8)

Regarding the payment, I perhaps better explain a few things to clear up some confusion:

• The Avalon batch 2's were priced in USD, at $1500 each. You can see that here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139704.0). There are two mistakes about this on Avalon's official website, one of which is that the website (http://launch.avalon-asics.com/) now says that they were priced at 75 BTC each, and the other is that the order status page shows that I paid 6000 BTC when it should say that I paid $6000.
• The bitcoin address 19qFqovtjezvcjf3SFRFq6EkePTuY2uA3x is owned by Avalon. (Or rather, it is owned by WalletBit.) It is the address to which I was asked to make payment, and I was given a quote of 225.58282142 BTC to be worth $6000. Anybody who has paid for anything with WalletBit or BitPay will be familiar with the system.
• The addresses 1C8x7nY5fZfsxrQKaXPS1fRQ5KoC4fBqW6, 1FBbATwKdCH2PzPB3TvqWkz7Bw8ZbNBY1S and 18bmze8KRHdSbCSwViz4wbZvMLdNoga28t are owned by BtcDirect (https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/BtcDirect/) of localbitcoins.com. I paid BtcDirect British pounds sterling and they paid Avalon BTC on my behalf.
• Because I agreed to trade £4000 for 230 BTC with BtcDirect before I had the exact quote from WalletBit, there was change of 4.41717858 BTC which was paid to my address, 1DtuFfgtaRYrhwCt6KpGVcwBp6UocTf2My (https://blockchain.info/address/1DtuFfgtaRYrhwCt6KpGVcwBp6UocTf2My). The only evidence I have that these transactions are related is that 4.41717858 + 225.58282142 = 230.00000000, but since there are eight decimal places matching I guess that should be enough. Anyhow, I control the address 1DtuFfgtaRYrhwCt6KpGVcwBp6UocTf2My and would be quite happy to make a small payments (of 0.001 BTC or so) to any address of your choosing for the benefit of any concerned would-be bidders. (That is, to prove that I own the address.) And I expect BtcDirect can probably vouch for me as well.
• Unfortunately I don't really have any way of showing that payments sent to 19qFqovtjezvcjf3SFRFq6EkePTuY2uA3x were received by Avalon and not someone else, except this support ticket (http://imgur.com/rqw13vJ) which is not publicly viewable so I can only give you a screenshot. The pixellating seems to be freaking people out so I've stopped doing that.

Fortunately, you don't have to take my word on anything. Since payment is done by John K. (escrow) at the very worst I can waste some of your time, but I can't take your money unless you ask John K. to release the funds once you've received the package from me. And with clause 6 (in the rules above) you are covered against Avalon not delivering also.

If anybody thinks I should be doing something differently, please say so.

starsoccer9, your bid is invalid because michelet already bid 66. Please bid at least 67 if you want to take part.

Don't forget everyone, this is a normal old-fashioned auction not like on eBay where you specify a maximum bid and eBay proxy bids for you. This means that you are completely free to bid again if you get outbid. ;)

I have decided to relent a bit on rule No. 3.
Since this is only a deposit to show that you are serious, you needn't put the whole amount on file with John K. at that point, if I still don't know when I'll be receiving the unit from Avalon. A mere 10% will be sufficient. I'll then notify you when it arrives and you can pay the rest.

ooo sorry didnt see the already 66 bid. Just curious but where will the avalons ship from? Also what type of shipping? fedex, ups,dhl, and is it normal, or next day?

Please see rule 4.

Just to reiterate, I have relented on rule 3 and made it better for you, the bidders. It should now read:

3. By placing a bid, you agree to pay John K. (escrow) 10% of the winning bid amount within 72 hours (3 days) after the auction ends, as a deposit until I receive the miner from Avalon (see rule 6). You may make your bid subject to seeing more evidence from me in which case state this in your post with your bid. You must leave this 10% on deposit with John K. if you still want to take part in a trade.

When I receive notification from Avalon that delivery to me is imminent, I will notify John K. of this and he will freeze your funds. (Until that point, you can drop out of the auction altogether and ask John K. to return your funds, but once dropped-out, there is no dropping-in again.) I will also notify you that delivery is imminent, and you can either pay the remaining 90% then (so that I can ship your package the very moment it arrives, without waiting to hear from John K.) or you can wait until I have actually physically received the miner before paying the remaining 90%. Obviously I can't ship your package to you I hear from John K. that you have paid the full amount.

Where in UK are you located?

Please see rule 4.

I am based in Bedford.

I need better glasses, clearly, sorry!

if you guys still need an escrow ( see my sig ).
 :)

Are you going to give warning before you close it? I know you said you will just close it but I mean once you get word from avalon will you wait like 24hours before closing or close right away?

starsoccer, are you bidding 67? Currently michelet has the highest bid at 66.

Yeah, I'll give 24 hours warning, that sounds sensible. But I'll close it sooner if bids slow to a trickle.

yea ill bid 67.Could you share what order number you were/what date you ordred if you didnt already.

Sorry for not reading the rules. I kinda skimmed through them they were to long lol

3049. But IIRC all orders (for batch 2) were on the same date, 18 February, assuming the whole batch sold out within 24 hours, which I assume it did.

68

69

This is a strange auction.

No realy endtime...

yep..it needs an Endtime...I would say give it till Monday... chime in OP

I disagree. its more like a lottery end time. Plus the OP said he would give 24hours notice before end

+1

70

Where Is this item located at?  I'll bid if I can pick it up directly.  I don't like this mojo shipping business.  In the USA??

See rule 4.

The nerve of some people to not read the first post. Horrible  :D

Hehe.

In other news, I have today received an email from Avalon stating:
However, nothing seems to be showing up on DHL's website when searching this as a tracking code as of yet. At least, not for me, but I daresay I may be typing it into the wrong box.

75

76

77

80

Okay I will fly over and pick it up from you.  will you provide address before I buy in person.  U show me working avalon and I send u btc.

81

Sure, I don't see why not. Didn't I mention that? Oh, no, I didn't. Yes, local pick-up is allowed, everybody. And winning bidder has the right to demand to see any evidence that I could reasonably provide before paying the full amount, whether collecting locally or not.

When collecting locally, you still have to make 10% deposit with John K. when the auction ends, unless you can show you are serious some other way to my satisfaction, e.g. showing me that you've booked flights and have a visa if necessary.

Nearest airport is Luton, sometimes called London Luton.

83

Jadatkins I sent you a pm, not sure if you saw it or not just could you respond to it please

Oh yes, so you have. Sorry for missing that. Replied now.

84

85.

86

90

91

92

100

120 actually

121BTC

125

127

132

what is the meaning of outbidding yourself?  :o

has nothing to do with outbidding myself. im no idiot and know the price is going UP

Ah ok
133 then :)

140 :D

we might be outbidding each other.. should we settle on something?

I am willing to take it right now if  you accept 125 BTC via pickup!

your offer is less than mine. auction is at 140btc.

If you want it, then outbid me.

You outbidded yourself, that doesn't count.

It does count, and in any case michelet bid 133 which is still more than 125.

Anyway: good news, everyone!

Since the miner is now showing up as being on its way on DHL's website (with tracking code 8990507024) I'm announcing that the auction is closing in 24 hours, that is Tuesday 2 July at:

12:00 noon England, British Summer Time
11:00 a.m. UTC / GMT
4:00 a.m. California, Pacific Daylight Time
5:00 a.m. Colorado, Mountain Daylight Time
6:00 a.m. Oklahoma, Central Daylight Time
7:00 a.m. New York, Eastern Daylight Time
8:00 a.m. Falkland Islands
1:00 p.m. France, Germany, most of Europe
7:00 p.m. Beijing (China) and Perth (Australia)
8:00 p.m. Japan
9:00 p.m. Sydney (Australia)
11:00 p.m. New Zealand

141

Lots of super new members up bidding an Avalon Auction......

Tread carefully :)

Who's that directed at, me or the buyers?

You!

I know it's Escrow etc but be careful !

So Don't Trust Jadakins??  Can yu show proof that he's a scammer?

watching :)

I think BigBitz means that I should be wary of you guys, actually.

Auction closes in 14 hours. DHL says that my parcel has left the Beijing area. DHL also sent me an invoice for customs fees, which I am in the process of paying right now.

150 only if you agree to SHIP to me first. Will pay if the unit is in great condition

151

152

153

155

156

Boom :)

Sold, to dogie for 156.

The auction is now closed. Thanks for all your interest.

Whoops, the quotes got a bit messed up there. I'm considering this sold to dogie for 156.

There is a dispute as to whether dogie or michelet should be the winner so I am unlocking the thread so that we discuss it in public rather than by group PM.

Thank you for the unlock, I appreciate.

Yes, we have a problem here.

One of the rule of the auction is: here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245629.msg2625078#msg2625078 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245629.msg2625078#msg2625078)
For the lazy one, I cut and copy here: "I'm announcing that the auction is closing in 24 hours, that is Tuesday 2 July at: 12:00 noon England, British Summer Time"

Reading this, I appointed it in my calendar and scheduled my day around this.
To be sure to respect the rules, I opened a web page in internet reporting the England Brithis summer Time.
A few seconds before the end of the auction, I posted my bid. That has been outbidded a few seconds later, but not in time for my clock.

The seller take this last bid.

But as everyone can test, forum time is at least 10 seconds in late. So this last bid come after 12:00 ENGLAND BST.

So the winning bid is mine, and for my point of view forum time doesn't count. I deliberately didn't use forum time! It is the first auction in which I use another clock just because it was in the rules. Otherwise I would have used forum time like usual.

I privately contacted the wrong winner and the seller. I already have 4 avalons, I can survive without another one but I think that if there's a rule it must be respected, otherwise these auctions don't have a meaning and I don't think I have to not report this.

sounds valid to me

 michelet is the winner.

Are you sure elastic? Do you know i will have more hashrate than you if i bring this home? ;)
j/k

The facts are:

• The forum time is not quite accurate; it is about ten seconds slow.
• michelet's last bid therefore was placed at about 11:59:55 BST, and dogie's bid of BTC156 at about 12:00:05 BST.
• In the first post of this thread, I say that the auctions ends when I say that it has ended. In a later post, I say that I will give 24 hours' notice, and in yet another post, I say that it will end at 12 noon BST.
• At no point do I make any reference to forum time, but nor do I make it clear that the auction will end at 12:00:00 exactly to the second.
• Since the dawn of time, it has been usual for off-line auctions to end when nobody wants to bid any more, but the extremely popular online auction website eBay uses instead a different system where auctions end at a very precise time, regardless of whether there have been any bids in the last few minutes or not.

1. Have I missed anything relevant?

2. All of the above considered, I believe both dogie and michelet have a valid claim to be the winner of the auction. Obviously it makes little difference to me to whom I sell it. From my interpretation of the rules as they were stated, I personally think that dogie has the better claim, because i) I wouldn't expect the timing to be so precise (I'd expect to allow bids up to a minute or two late) and ii) I think it is implied that I would make a post to confirm that the auction is closed. But by no means do I consider this matter settled.

For myself, I would be happy to allow the auction to continue indefinitely between dogie and michelet only, but only if both of them were happy with this. If not, my only options are:
a) flip a coin
b) interpret the rules as best I can
c) take arbitration from someone else or from the community at large

I'm happy with any of the options a, b and c. I reject michelet's view that his is the only possible interpretation of the rules.

Yeah it's OK, I got to be higher this week :) who knows what might come on offer next week though :)

I had to try really hard not to bid on this one.....

 

I would respect the opinion of a trusted member of your choice that doesn't mind to read all the rules you have stated, and the winner pay a tip for his precious time.
Or I like this coin thing, in any digital version. I respect the fate also ;)

Let's flip a coin then (based on the blockchain or something) - it's the most transparent and uses the least of people's time. Assuming dogie's ok with that; I'll PM him to draw his attention.

I have read all the rules, both as they were freshly published, and again just now.

My opinion is that the clear intent was to end the auction exactly at 12:00 BST, but that pesky little word was not affirmatively included.
I think that all other parties also perceive the same intent.

The only question that I think is open are these:  what was the time, and how do we know?  I think the problem exists because the forum time is not correct, something jadatkins did not have control over.  As auctioneer, he has authority to take extraordinary measure to fix problems.

I recommend to recreate the situation that the auction will end within seconds and there is only time to make one final bid:

Reset the auction to BTC 155 with michelet winning.
Open the bidding to the two of them, and limit them to 1 final bid per person.  
The auction is over when Jadatkins makes a post saying that it is.  Announce approximately how much time you will give.
The unit has made it to London.  Remove the option to back out of any newly made bid.

You are known only for your ridiculously complicated auctions that took 70 posts, literally to try and explain. And 2 reposts, and even then people didn't get it - this is not your auction.

This was a simple auction, we bid, its closed. The auction timer closed at BST midday - 01 July 2013, 12:00:00 according to forum time. Why would there by any other source of time that could vary significantly between people?

My desktop clock probably isn't synced to yours, which isn't synced to the next person. Why would we use that as a source of time? The forum time is the ONLY one which is synced by default, and creates an indisputable time stamp.

There is no problem here.

Today at 11:59:57. That is before midday, in the BST time zone.

I'm going to ask John K. to give a look-in. I don't think the three of us can agree on this. Even dogie's and my views are different (dogie's that the auction was implied to end at noon forum time, mine that if the forum time were several minutes out then the auction would be ending roughly at noon, but not precisely, end of auction to be defined by when I make a final post).

Yes, the package is in London so rule 6 no longer applies.

Dogie.. luckily we were speaking in your native language.. No one was speaking about desktop time..
I think the "flip a coin" whould have been very fair between gentlemen at this point.
I also find the idea of a new duel by ProfMac very nice, again a game between gentlemen.

But I am not interested in fighting, we look like two dogs fighting for a bone!
I think it's bad for all the community.
I posted my claim just because I had my reasons to debate.
If you're here to fight or discuss forever well I retreat, take your Avalon and good luck.
jadatkins thanks for re opening the thread, for me you can close it.

Perhaps there is another unit available. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167726.msg2638008#msg2638008)  This would be win-win.

I think this whole thing is my fault for not specifying the rules clearly enough, and for that I'm sorry for wasting everybody's time. But the mistake is in the past and can never fully be corrected.

dogie has indicated to me by PM that he/she considers this settled now, so thankyou michelet for rescinding your claim and apologies once again: I have let you down.

I will now re-lock this thread and sell to dogie. I might leave it a day or so before re-locking in case anybody has any final comments.

I agree, it has to go by Forum time as that's the one everyone has in front of their FACE.  Who's going to check against another source??  Also forum time will have a time stamp on it when you post. 

Best solution is to cancel the auction and rebid at 1 BTC again.