Bitcoin Forum

This thread was bumped today (4th Nov 2013) by a BTT member, the information within is out of date.

Up to date information and announcements will be posted on BTT shortly


Hey BitcoinTalkers :)

Been a while since I posted the original eMunie thread, and I stated that I would only post here in the future with any major developments.  Well, I have a ton to share, as things have been pretty busy over here.

Due to these changes/improvements/additions the launch date has slipped by quite a lot, it was originally penciled for ~21st June, but even when posting the original thread, there were policies and philosophies in the design that I wasn't sure would stay, or might change.  Which is why I didn't spend the time completing the whitepaper, as I felt that information might become outdated.  Currently there is a tentative launch date set sometime around the end of July.

In this post I'll be addressing some technical elements, new features, the new and improved eMu generation model and how that will work.  Plus some information on features that we are planning/building in to the system.  Some of it I will keep out, as the features are innovative, but could easily be implemented by others, and I'm not a fan of my idea's being stolen before I've executed them.

All of what I post technically will be brief, and more detail will be included in the published whitepaper when methods are finalized.

Transactional Model

Originally the eMunie transaction model shared a lot in common with the Bitcoin design, single chain, in and out transactions cross signed using ECDSA scripts and other similarities.  From day one, this did not "feel" correct, it is limiting, it is susceptible to 51% attacks via forking and while its design is acceptable to a minor currency implementation, moving forward, it does not scale well enough to be considered a "fiat" challenger.

We decided to redesign 70% of our transaction model and refactor our code.

So how does it work now?

Confirming transactions continues to operate in much the same manner, a forward and back search of the block chain is performed, verifying that the current transaction dependencies are legitimate and continuing in a recursive fashion until either the transaction worth is fulfilled by the transactions it depends on (ie you don't need to do a full tree scan), an eMu generation block is encountered, or the genesis.  Coupled with our efficient POW algorithm (although slightly revised which I'll get into later on) this original method is still the basis of our transaction confirmation functionality and processing.

The main changes are in the "block chain" itself, and the way that transactions are recorded and stored.

eMunie now uses multiple chains, think of the ledger as more of a block tree, than a block chain.  There may be many 1000's of small, interconnected chains, all holding valid transactions, and all able to validate transactions across other chain sections.  "Forks", or new chains in eMunie are good, they strengthen the system and make a 51% attack impractical if not nigh on impossible, as there are so many chains, taking them all over is rather difficult.  Transactions are verified in multiple blocks, with many "hatchers" (or miners as is the lingo here) in the system verifying the same transaction over and over and including a reference to that transaction in many blocks, within many chains.

Double spends are also EXTREMELY difficult with eMunie, as the system now favors a rolling balance over a "transaction in/out" method such as Bitcoin.  As soon as you create a transaction, that transaction is distributed to the network as an intention, and it is logged.  All nodes now know about this intended transaction and will include it in any subsequent balance calculation should they need it.

Upon the transaction clearing, that transaction is included in 1 or many blocks, and your rolling balance will calculate to the same as when performed using the transaction intention.

Transaction intentions take huge priority over other system messages, so to perform that double spend would require you to be very targeted in where it is sent to, know all about the current network position (its very dynamic) and sent immediately after the original transaction.  Should you successfully achieve a double spend, soon after your rolling balance when calculated by nodes in the system will enter a negative balance, that peer and wallet address will then be immediately blacklisted forever.

.... NEXT eMu Generation ....

Supply, Demand & eMu Generation

Currencies, or money supply, work with reliance to supply and demand, the more demand the more supply, the problem is of course, that in the fiat world, this is manipulated by the central banks to their own agenda, and dilutes the fiat supply... or inflation.

A stable currency needs a stable value, and a stable value can only be achieved with a solid supply and demand model that doesn't dilute the already in circulation money supply.  If it does, new money steals the value from your current money supply and thus is devalued, as it has not "earned" its own value yet.

With eMunie we have looked at these issues in great detail, and believe we have a solution, that will ensure a fair, stable, honest currency value that does not dilute the holding of any single person in the system anywhere.

Save for the details of the mathematics (which will be in the white paper), demand is simply a call for new eMu, whether that be new accounts with new people coming on board, or regular users of eMunie wanting to have more of a holding.

Demand in the system is always closely chased, via an trailing elastic supply model, so there is just enough eMu in circulation to almost meet to the current demand trends....unless demand comes to a halt or is exceeded by supply.  When this happens, no more eMu is created until the current excess supply available is used by demand.  This recognition of excess supply happens quickly, so the excess will always be a very small percentage of the entire money supply, thus the effect of this supply will be nominal at best.

Where does the supply come from you ask?  It comes from the hatchers.    Hatchers perform work while clearing transactions, the amount of work any single hatcher in the system does, is easily calculated from the block tree, and thus, a % portion of the work done by that hatcher in a specific time period can be determined.    A hatcher will then receive that % portion, of the systems calculated supply of new eMu required from the current demand.

eMu can not be spent from a hatcher account, it can only be transferred to either an exchange account, or a regular eMu wallet via a mediator.  This mediator records the movement of supply eMu into the system and is included in future supply calculations.  Hatcher owners are then free to do with the eMu as they so wish, hopefully, trading some or all of it out into the system.

These generated eMu's will have "value" as the hatchers have performed real world work to acquire them, however, a caveat of this, is that as the system load increases, and more work is done by more hatchers, these eMu's increase in deemed value, thus devaluing the already present eMu's in the system....and thus acts like traditional INFLATION.

Interest

To combat this inflation due to the effect of the increasing work in the system, a portion of the supply eMu's are passed to the accounts already holding eMu as "interest".  Interest is calculated as the current annual % increase in eMu supply, as per demand, plus a % increase to ensure equilibrium.  This ensures that while the new supply of eMu entering into the system may have higher "value" due to more work done to achieve them, all other eMu's in the system, while worth less, are topped up with new, more valuable eMu to guarantee that stake holder of current eMu does not loose out.

Interest is ALWAYS higher than new supply %, even if just marginally, except in the event, that demand ceases to exist, or is 0.  Interest is then also 0 to ensure the equilibrium and solidify the value of all eMu in the system.

.... NEXT Value ....

Work Value & Real Value

Above I mentioned a few times about the "value" of an eMu.  There are 2 value classification for a single eMu, "work value" and "real value".

Work value is the classification I talk about above, it is the work value of that eMu within the system and has no bearing or relevance at all to the eMu's real value.  The work value is an abstract that is used to correctly govern the supply of new eMu's thus to ensure that the current collective work value of all existing eMu's is not compromised.

Real value is the value placed upon eMu by you, me, and anyone else that chooses to use them, and that is a different kettle of fish entirely.

The work value of an eMu can be going up, while the real value is going down, or vice versa.  The real value is isolated from the work value, and is determined by the market, not the system.

That said, the real value of an eMu will most certainly have an effect on the supply and demand model within, as generally, it can be assumed that if the real value is dropping, so is demand, and vice versa.

The real value is what you "trade OF value" to acquire an eMu, whether that be a $, a £, a service, work, or a sheep.

With that in mind, if the demand of eMu is high, then the real value of an eMu will typically rise.  If the demand of eMu is low, or none, the real value may drop, but the work value will hold until demand resumes.  Due to the work value of an eMu being topped up via interest, your overall holding of eMu increases in proportion to the work value, and thus the real world value should rise at a steady and predictable manner.  The result is a reliable, predictable real world value increase, which when rising ultimately results in ... profit for you the stake holder.

In closing

Finally I would like to end with a breakdown of some innovative and unique features within the eMunie eco system, as aside from the above strong points, there are others too as listed below:

• Transaction message attachments
• Secure P2P messaging system
• Multiple accounts within a single wallet
• Higher wallet security
• Easy wallet retrieval if lost
• Built in system escrow system
• Transaction schedules (transactions sent now but clear on a certain date)
• Decentralized P2P exchange
• ..much much more..

[reserved]

Some great new features especially the interest.  Hopefully you can pull it off. Will be watching this thread.

UPDATE: This infographic illustrates how eMunie Block Tree (not chain, unlike Bitcoin) Transaction model is resistant to 51% attack:
http://ecoinomist.com/images/emunie-block-tree-transaction-chain.png (http://ecoinomist.com/emunie-block-tree-transaction-chain-infographic)

So lets say originally the network has 1 Million eMus, and demand indicates it needs to issue another 1M eMu, based on explanation, the system has to bloat 3 times in total eMu, not 2 times, is that correct?

• 1M existing eMu
• 1M hatcher's earning to meet new demand
• 1M+1% interest rate distributed to existing 1M eMu above

=> Total eMu in network now is 3M eMu?

So while there is huge advantage for early EMU holders (very high interest rate when networks grows fast), their share of total EMU in the network will be diluted over-time. But providing the price of each EMU remains stable or keeps increasing steady, there is still huge investment gain purely from high dynamic interest rate, correct?

Correct on all counts.  Although in your example, that inflation rate would be 200%  :D

So in traditional currency your % share of the money supply decreases, along with its value.

Here while your overall share of the money supply decreases, its worth remains as it is topped up by more valuable (in the work sense) eMu's.

Demand will typically come with an increase in the real value (that's the market) of eMu.  

When demand is up you gain in 2 areas, eMu holding, say 5% p/a + whatever the current % of rise in real value is that has created that demand in the first place.

If an eMu is worth a $, you have 100 of them, if the demand creates an inflation of 4%, then at the end of that year you have 105$  (4%+1% for equilibrium for arguments sake).  The demand will also of pushed up the real value too, lets say 3% over that year.

Thus, your original $100 could now be worth as high as $108.15

Where does the demand information come from?

Reserved

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's based on transaction information over some time frame and some fun math is applied.

Some complex and long discussion going on here:
http://forum.emunie.com/threads/new-supply-demand-model-interest-and-inflation.111/

reserved

BitCoin you were fun while you lasted, LiteCoin who?

%r3wt loves eMunies%

this is finally something new and look promissing to be even better !

reserved

this is perhaps the most innovative idea of all cryptos to date.

How would it work in practice?

Assuming I'm a regular Joe who just got interested in emunie, how do I buy emu?

Don't know all the details but there is talk on the eMunie forum that an exchange will be built right into the wallet.

It will be different for sure, and that is exactly what i am looking for.

It's good to have updates on BitcoinTalk sometimes too, it will help eMunie, making it a bit more famous :P

Seeing Emu in the making from the very early days has made me love this innovation and support its advantages more and more every day.

Every time Fuserleer showed up and wrote something, it's something new and innovative.

I have a lot of faith in this and hope it will set the record for digital currency and the way transactions are processed and secured.

I do hope to see the P2P exchange built into the system/client itself. If this is the case, dumping and pumping could be controlled within the system to secure the market even more. More security = more interest in investment = more adoption and useability.

Looking forward to the launch  ;D

For exchange to/from other crypto currencies, the process is quite simple and fairly easy to implement (in theory, isn't that always the case).

Hatchers/Mediators in the system will keep a ledger of all buy/sell orders in the system, and these will be possible to access from the client.  When an order is completed, buy or sell, then that process of transfer, as other crypto's have the BCAPI, is simple to achieve and can be automated, the eMu's transferred to the appropriate party as with the other currency.

Fiat exchanges are a different ball game, as you need a link to the outside world, and all the red tape that comes with it.  Although we haven't worked out all the details of this just yet, I imagine something like the following would be implemented.

Assuming that the necessary fiat transfer mechanisms (merchant accounts and such, any legal requirements) are in place, then the actual process can remain pretty similar and all happen behind the scenes. 

The structure to handle fiat I would like to be as follows but first about the foundation (more detailed thread later):

The foundation will ultimately be a number of members with an interest in eMu, voted into that position by other foundation members and has some requirements.  The foundation will regulate SERVICES of the eMunie system, to ensure that any unscrupulous characters are kept OUT, the foundation will also work to further roll out other eMunie services that use the main system and be a platform to push development of eMunie features forward through a general consensus, perform fund raising for this development and so on.

Entities wanting to offer fiat exchange services would apply to the eMunie foundation (thread on this later on) for a license (essentially a special key). Those entities would be heavily vetted to ensure that they are trustworthy and that they have all the required licenses and funding available to run a fiat exchange.

These fiat exchanges would then be allowed onto the system, and will provide eMu <-> Fiat services.

From a users perspective, it will simply be an exchange panel to view the buy/sell orders, and a button to Buy/Sell fiat from one of the fiat exchanges.

As I said all of this is still very much in the air regarding fiat transfers, so suggestions and thoughts are welcome.

Whats this about a built in escrow system? Can you touch on that for I don't remember reading that anywhere before.

Now if people are only allowed to buy in (without the ability to cash out in fiat), from legal point of view, I'd imagine the process would be simple.

Each EMU will be treated like a digital product/commodity that the exchange (acting as the merchant) can just sell at a certain price in $ fiat, like selling stock photos, ebooks, audio files.

Then the network can just function like a core framework on which other third party entities can establish shops to sell EMU (similar to how ppl can simply install ecommerce plugins to sell things with WordPress - but wordpress itself is not the merchant, nor shopping cart).

The legal challenge is when ppl want to cash out in $ fiat - now it suddenly touches the money laundering regulations because it has become a two way money transfer system.

I'm not a lawyer, so this may sound dump, but how about making those two entities separate and independent from each other?

• Entity A to handle all buy in orders
• Entity B handles all cash out orders

==> Could entity A and B in this case classified as auction service providers, instead being legally treated as money exchanges?

Launch date?

did u read op?

looks like next launch schedule is end of July.

thank you for sharing !

I bet the first crypto that manages to pull out a working decentralized exchange will be the king of all.
The rewards is a billion dollar cap. Let's see if it will be eMunie :), sounds promising.

Definitely looking forward to this!

sounds very interesting. 

cant wait for it :)

Very cool stuff.

I heard somewhere that you will be using Java to implement this?

I think that's just for the beta, i have read the final client might be c++

Yup Java to start with, then migrating to a C++ client in the future.

have visited the forum and did some more DD looking very good and time is about right for a new innovative coin.

http://forum.emunie.com/

There are already lots of copycat altcoins borrowing ideas from this, but all are still ideas in whitepapers and nothing more than that.

What I'd love to see is something tangle, the ideas and the systems here sound promising, particularly the dynamic adjustment to meet demand and supply equation, which to this date none of the alt have addressed.

However, for being such a different system, we won't know for sure whether it will be able to make the prices stable as it is designed to be, or would it be treated just like another store of value, like Bitcoin, where people tend to hoard, pump and dump at will.

If such things happen without proper anti-measures, eMunie would not go far, perhaps, at most, one day it will stand equal among BTC and LTC.

that is indeed a challenge we have to tacle, i am confident we will find a solution.

Humm, I already can see the abuse of power from the futur "Foundation"

What is different about Bitcoin? MtGox and bitcointalk.org together pretty much control what happens with bitcoin.

So if the chain structure is a tree, does that mean anyone can solo mine/hatch because there would be no stale blocks?

not necessarily !

Looking forward to it!

well its either that or dishonest users abusing others.   If you are not dishonest then there is nothing to worry about.

Too many people get scammed with these currencies, and I intend to squash as much of that as possible.

And if all else fails, you at least you have the backing of the worst browser ever with this coin.

e

it will not fail, and the explorer logo will be long forgotten when eMunie is common good.

bump

beta version 821 running fast imo.

IE 9 and IE 10 are actually getting better.

As a web designer and frontend developer, I used to hate IE and haven't used it for half a decade, but one day my regular "Joe" friend who is a game addict told me IE was faster than Chrome.
I was suspicious the least to believe him that Chrome could ever be slower than IE, but some testing results indeed show that not only IE 9/10 is faster than any browser there is (on Windows 8), they consume the least CPU/RAM resources as well (just open your task manager with the browsers on having multiple tabs open to compare).

So now I'm back to using IE for most regular browsing.

P.S. eMunie is not a "coin", see the logo? does it look like a coin? or more like an electronic chip?

http://www.freetrialdownloads.com/cdn/icons/2-icon-Internet-Explorer.png vs. http://ecoinomist.com/images/EMU-icon-128.png
Don't even look similar to me at all.

Look!


Someone came out with the first alt-coin that isn't based on bitcoin today!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252152.0

 :P

observing

I like the concept, but you need a flashy name - something like Bitcoin - memorable and easy to spell. eMunie is neither easy to spell, nor memorable.

You didn't ready it completely. The interest you get from holding the coin is slightly larger that the inflation. So your coin will increase in value over time.

That sounds like a good idea, but the implementation is not clear to me.

You are wrong, bitcoin is difficult to spell.for non-English speakers and the word could prove to be quite vulgar in some languages.

eMunie sounds better for a P2P currency like eMule.

http://lol.net/c/emule-0-49-windows.jpg

Is this project dead or still to be released? I am very interested in this.

Still very much alive and well!  We are approaching the end of our closed beta period soon, with a view to move to an open beta in the next few weeks with a launch planned "loosely" Dec/Jan.

Some people will call eMunie vaporware, as I've slipped the launch about 3 times now, but we are still here and would rather do it right first time with a bucket load of never before seen features out of the gate, than launch it just for the sake of it, especially after so many people have invested effort into its development and testing.

It's ironic that you should bump this thread today, planning on some quite major announcements/developments over the next day or two that will quite simply make all other crypto-currencies obsolete (and I wouldn't make that claim lightly), so keep your eyes peeled.

this is great news. gives me plenty of time to finish OpenEx prior to the launch of Emunie.

Ooh, whats OpenEX?  Any threads? :)

caution: shameless plug ahead >>> https://www.openex.pw/

dev thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=320975.0

Looking good!

About time there was a new open source exchange, all the current batch have either been abandoned or have hefty price tags attached to them now.

Whats your release timeline looking like?

how can we get into the pre sale?  I see a link on your site in the archives that has a bitcoin address to send to but I don understand how you will tie my payment to me and not someone else.  nxt had a sha hashing mechanism to pull your coins out of the genesis block.  your instructions said to send you my wallet address but i dont understand what that means...  ill be sending from an exchange.

Exactly! I don't understand why people cannot understand the simple FACT that you cannot get rid of central authorities. You can only democratize them and create a system where it is possible for anyone to become one. Central Authorities are not a bad thing, AS LONG as they are not the only players in the system. #Makes$ense

That is true. Inflation is not bad, selfishness is the evil.

There was a question about the money that will get the developer after pre-launch sale. Besides the developer, whether other people to manage the money? Who determines these people upravlyuyaschih money. Do they have a clear plan for management of the money ? What are the guarantees that people with money will not be gone ? What are the guarantees that the money a person will take the government of his country ? Can holders such as to influence the decisions of the holder of money from pre-launch sale? Provided if the system control dvzhieniya preprodazhi money from ? What percentage of the money received during pre-launch sale, will go to pay for developers ? What percentage of the money received from pre-launch sale go to the stabilization of the currency? On the official forum there is mention of a fund : EDRC (Emunie Deployment & Regulator Committee).

No information counter about this fund I could not find . Who are these people who are entrusted with currency management ? Who chose them ? How to check them ? How do they protect against the encroachments of the state money , tax and other people?

I tried to find answers to these questions .

There are similar questions unanswered .

http://forum.emunie....edrc#entry11046

http://forum.emunie....t-p2p-exchange/

http://forum.emunie....cerning-emunie/

http://forum.emunie....rated-coins-go/

http://forum.emunie....where-goes-the/

http://forum.emunie....мaция-o-emunie/

In all subjects which raises this question answer only simple users, the administrator does not comment on these topics. Many quoted reports that the money will go to the developers. And none of those found not a single representative of the fund, which will go from pre-launch sale money.
this is an automatic translation
original:
Boзник вoпpoc o дeньгax, кoтopыe пoлyчит paзpaбoтчик пocлe пpeпpoдaжи. Кpoмe paзpaбoтчикa, бyдyт ли дpyгиe люди yпpaвлять этими дeньгaми? Ктo oпpeдeляeт людeй yпpaвлюящиx этими дeньгaми. Ecть ли y ниx чeткий плaн yпpaвлeния этими дeньгaми? Кaкиe ecть гapaнтии тoгo чтo чeлoвeк c дeньгaми нe пpoпaдeт? Кaкиe ecть гapaнтии, чтo дeньги y чeлoвeкa зaбepeт пpaвитeльcтвo eгo cтpaны? Moгyт ли дepжaтeли кaк тo влиять нa peшeния этoгo дepжaтeля дeнeг oт пpeпpoдaжи? Пpeдycмoтpeл ли в cиcтeмe кoнтpoль двжиeния дeнeг из пpeпpoдaжи? Кaкoй пpoцeнт дeнeг, пoлyчeныx в xoдe пpeпpoдaжи, пoйдyт нa oплaтy тpyдa paзpaбoтчикoв? Кaкoй пpoцeнт дeнeг пoлyчeнныx oт пpeпpoдaжи пoйдyт нa cтaбилизaцию кypca вaлюты? Ha oфициaльнoм фopyмe ecть yпoминaниe нeкoeгo фoндa: EDRC (Emunie Deployment & Regulator Committee).

Hикaкoй инфoмpaции oб этoм фoндe мнe нe yдaлocь нaйти. Ктo эти люди, кoтopым дoвepeнo yпpaвлeниe вaлютoй? Ктo иx выбpaл? Кaк иx пpoвepить? Кaк oни зaщитят дeньги oт пocягaтeльcтв гocyдapcтвa, нaлoгoвикoв и пpoчиx людeй?

Я пoпытaлcя нaйти oтвeты нa эти вoпpocы.

Ecть пoxoжиe вoпpocы бeз oтвeтoв.

http://forum.emunie....edrc#entry11046

http://forum.emunie....t-p2p-exchange/

http://forum.emunie....cerning-emunie/

http://forum.emunie....rated-coins-go/

http://forum.emunie....where-goes-the/

Bo вcex тeмax гдe пoднимaeтcя этoт вoпpoc oтвeчaют тoлькo пpocтыe пoльзoвaтeли, aдминиcтpaтop нe кoммeнтиpyeт эти тeмы. Bo мнoгиx пpивoдитcя цитaтa cooбщeния o тoм чтo дeньги пoйдyт paзpaбoтчикaм. И ни в oднoй из тeм нe нaшeл ни oднoгo пpeдcтaвитeля фoндa, кoтopoмy пoйдyт дeньги oт пpeпpoдaжи.

.