Bitcoin Forum

Anybody has a GoldMoney Full Holding http://www.goldmoney.com/online-payments.html (http://www.goldmoney.com/online-payments.html) and wants to sell me some BTC for Gold?

I would also be very interested in an automated BTC/GM exchange, since both systems are non-reversible, final, international, online and non-dollar based. Do any exist?

I also want to purchase BTC via GoldMoney. I found one seller but he wants a minimum of $10,000 for the first deal. If you are willing to pick up a few thousand I will go ahead and buy a large batch and then make a deal with you later. PM me.

An exchange would be great but I doubt GM would let it last very long as they do not do any digital currency exchanges and stay very safe for their regulators from the Jersey Financial Services Commission for KYC and AML requirements.

I would like to start small, especially since there's probably no escrow service we can use. Also check the seller's reputation any way possible.

I would buy 100$ first, could work my way up to 1000$ after trust is established.

Regarding exchangers... what about http://bitcoin-otc.com/ ?  I hear good things.

A couple of interesting articles comparing BTC and GoldMoney and pointing out their relative flaws/strengths:

Bitcoins backed by gold launched
http://irdial.com/blogdial/?p=3103

Why Are Libertarians Against Bitcoin?
http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-are-libertarians-against-bitcoin.html

Doug Casey on Bitcoin and Currencies
http://www.caseyresearch.com/cwc/doug-casey-bitcoin-and-currencies

FOFOA
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/06/bitcoin-open-forum-part-3.html

My conclusion is that they could work very well in combination, they complement each other pretty well considering how different they are...

I found another article (http://www.runtogold.com/2011/06/what-is-bitcoin/). I agree that they complement each other pretty well. Bitcoin is great for transactions and GoldMoney for storage of value.

Interesting.  Wasn't aware the GoldMoney supported P2P transfers.  This can be for any of the metals, including silver.    Incidentally, the fee is about 1% with an upper limit / cap at about roughly $5.

My thoughts exactly! No matter how much I believe in Bitcoin, I'm not going to save in a currency that has only been around for a couple of years. So I figure: BTC = wallet  / GM = piggybank.

I'm in.  I have a GoldMoney account and will sell BTC for GoldMoney.  Willing to go as slow as you want/need at first (I don't have many BTC right now anyway).  PM me if interested.

Yes interested, will PM.

one question about goldmoney. It looks like they take a storage fee every month from you as well as the fee for buying and selling.

Call me short sighted but I would prefer to spend a little bit more over spot and have a coin sitting on my desk rather than paying someone else to store it.

Actually there is no sell fee.
And storage fees are pretty low... considering the premium that you normally pay for a coin, it would pay for a few years of GoldMoney storage.  http://www.goldmoney.com/precious-metals-prices.html

check out this calculator:   http://inbullion.com/gold-investment-planning.shtml

Agree (somewhat), but I can't find any place willing to sell bullion for BTC.

Peter Schiff on previous attempts at competing with the US dollar:

Peter Schiff: The rise of the barter economy
http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20110705/FREE/110709989

Liberty dollar, e-gold, etc... interesting recap. Good reminder that most of these were taken down by USG.

Great doing business with you cvicisso. 
Will trade again soon.

Thanks - I look forward to it!

If anyone else is interested - let me know.  Will sell BTC for GoldMoney.  If you don't have a GoldMoney account... you should!   ;)  You can easily set one up by hitting the link in my signature line. 

I have just completed my second gg <-> BTC transaction with cvicisso successfully. Everything went smoothly, I heartily recommend this user as honest and prompt.  :)

I won't be broadcasting any future deals, I'll stick to PMs.

If anyone is interested, the rate was   1 gg = 3.5 BTC

Thanks flix - and same high recommendation goes for flix.  Transactions were QUICK and painless. 

In fact - I've tried doing this (selling BTC) on eBay... what a pain!!  GoldMoney <--> BTC is THE WAY TO GO!  No big fees and transactions are near instant.  As was mentioned earlier, there is of course a 'trust' factor initially (since there is no way to retract or dispute a transaction) - but start small like flix and I did and it's smooth sailing after that. 

Bottom line: a GREAT experience.

there are a few people on the forums selling troy oz coins, eagles etc for between 2.5 to 3.5 btc each

Both Bitcoin and Gold are up a lot today.

gAu = 49,16$          
BTC = 16,04$

Had a good transaction with imanikin. He sent first.

sunnankar is a trustworthy trading partner! Would definitely trade again! :)

Thank you!

Transaction successfully completed with flix!

Look forward to any future business with this trustworthy trading partner! Thank you!  :)

The same goes for imanikin. Fast and smooth. Looking forward to future trades.

Oh, and btw, I just came across this:

http://goldstarbullion.com/


Just in case you want to close the circle..

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Precious_Base_Metals/Coins

me too wants do buy Goldmoney against bTC! please pm

They're priced really competitive.  And friendly.  I suggest you just ask.  There's contact info on the website, or it's TraderSteve in these parts.

Very interesting interview with GoldMoney founder James Turk:

James Turk: Gold Is Our Defense Against the Fiat Currency Graveyard
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/james-turk-gold-our-defense-against-fiat-currency-graveyard/60423

Another great deal successfully completed with flix! Highly recommended trading partner! Thank you very much, flix!  :)

I just went to goldmoney.com and to my surprise I found out that you cannot use the money-feature (sending and receiving goldmoney in any metal) if you reside in Germany.

To my knowledge this is new.

Does anyone have information about that, anyway to circumvent this problem and so on?

(I find this appalling btw!)

I think it has to do with Money Service Business regulations in Germany. The Dutch have also given GoldMoney a lot of grief so they do not open accounts for people residing in Holland.

I suppose the hack would be to have a residential address not in Germany then you should be able to get a Full Holding and be able to send and receive payments.

Well, I thought of that, too. But unfortunately I won't be able to pay a second rent
in an eligible country just to open a goldmoney account :(

So once again the people are getting screwed...what a surprise!

Well, I doubt you would have to pay a second rent. Perhaps you have a friend or family member that would let you move in and they might even only charge you to split the utilities which you would put in your name for a few months or you could have a bank or brokerage account send your statements there or better yet, both.

Now there's two contenders for BTC Amazon:

http://www.bitcoinz.ca/
vs.
https://bitcoinworldmarket.com

I love how fast things move in this world!

For those who have PM'd me... sorry for the delay in responding.  Unfortunately, BOTH of my mining rigs went down HARD right before I went on an out-of-town vacation.  Not sure what the deal is, but it was major.  Neither MB will boot (or anything) now.  When I tried restarting the first one, there was a loud POP! in the PSU  :o followed by a familiar acrid smell of something electrical that just sh!t the bed.  I unplugged it, and haven't gotten back around to trouble-shooting.

My main concern right now is: HOW THE HELL DO I GET THE BTCs THAT WERE ALREADY ACCUMULATED??!  I pulled the HD and am able to run the Bitcoin program on another computer, but it doesn't show any transactions.  I've got about 10 BTC in there somewhere... is there any way to salvage them or are they gone forever? 

(from here (http://www.goldmoney.com/disclaimer.html))

Mind yourselves.   If you use GM you already know they're pretty anal about details.   


Frank

I agree Frank to mind oneself. I talked with two of my attorneys and both concluded that bit coins, legally, do not constitute currency. There is plenty of legislation defining currency and as applied to bitcoins they are not currency. Clause 8 of the User Agreement, it appears, applies to things like Paypal, Liberty Reserve, etc. that deal with currencies.

In the case with BitCoin, the issue centers on what is a bitcoin? GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for ebooks, mp3s and other legal transactions. There is currently no legal definition of what a bitcoin is that distinguishes it from an mp3, .html file, ebook, etc. Both attorneys think it will take years, if ever, for legislation to define it and it is currently no defined as a currency. There are currently no regulations that make bitcoins illegal. Therefore, GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for bitcoins just like GoldMoney can be used to complete transactions for an mp3, ebook, car, cups, video games and any other legal transaction.

Now could GoldMoney arbitrarily and inappropriately interpret clause 8 in an over broad way to include bitcoins as currency? Sure. Will they? Who knows but probably not if they have competent legal counsel. But if we know one thing about markets it is that if GoldMoney were to do so then the markets would just 'route around' GoldMoney.

Annoying. They won't develop a market for their DGC themselves and at the same time won't allow e-currency exchange so that their customers can spend their gold. I guess they're not interested in Goldmoney as a medium of exchange, only as a store of value.

Oh well. I won't be making any more transactions until I've checked with them. Don't want my account closed.

Of course the above is something to keep in mind for anyone who runs an exchange.

posted by sunnakar:

I can't believe all this came from just two attorneys -- one would think it would require a whole team to come up with such twisted logic.   Please consider reality, vs. legality, as the basis of your actions:

1) Bitcoin is, manifestly and very very obviously, an e-currency by any common interpretation of that term.   GoldMoney would be perfectly within the scope of its user agreement to start policing Bitcoin exchanges, and almost certainly will if they notice any volume of it happening -- just as they have done again and again in the past, with PayPal, e-gold, Liberty Reserve, etc.   
 
2) As a private company, GoldMoney is not required to come up with any "legal definition" of e-currency, or to justify any other basis of a right-of-exclusion clause.  If your attorneys were worth anything as attorneys, they'd surely tell you this instead of insinuating that you'll get around it through some kind of legal definition loophole, or even that there could be legal consequences for GM if they interfere with Bitcoin transactions (eg. "...Will they? ... probably not if they have competent legal counsel.")   

I'm not actually trying to stop anyone from doing this -- simply pointing it out, in case you happen to be new to GoldMoney you might want to watch out for their occasionally unilateral policy enforcement. 


Frank

Also interested in selling BTC for GoldMoney, please PM me for a trade

Just completed a successful trade with imanikin. Very courteous and prompt trader. Highly recommended for those looking to buy BTC with GM.

Thanks imanikin!  ;D

Thank you, Landstander!  8)

Landstander is a very considerate and trustworthy trading partner! Would definitely trade again!

I see that Ruxum exchange will accept GoldMoney Gold Grams, Silver and Palladium for adding funds to the exchange.  The metal is converted at current rates for the trading currency you choose, less a fee.

You need to be signed in to read the details but they show it on this page:
 - http://x.ruxum.com/account/transfers/deposit

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/9872899440/global-exchange-trading-expands

interesting comparison of costs of holding gold online vs premium on physical metal.

side note: goldmoney is a decent service willing to adopt and I live in a country allowing payments in gm. so once bitcoin exchange rate approaches parity with silver ounce, I will open buy offers for gold there : )

edit: to benefit from optimum storage fees with goldmoney the deposit should be above 550 grams. otherwise the .1 g monthly min fee is a disadvantage for a piggy bank

It'd be nice if GoldMoney sponsored a block-chain currency with units backed by gold.  They'd control the issuance (no block solution rewards--only transaction fees for mining) and promise to buy the currency at a certain rate of gold.  (The rate would decrease slowly over time--or the chain would need demurrage--in proportion to the gold storage costs.)

If I were to do this, I'd design the GoldCoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=29135.0) chain with a shared proof-of-work system (http://dot-bit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=269&start=40#p1907) (merged mining) from the outset to defend against 51% attacks.  The currency would not be decentralised the way Bitcoin is, but if successful, it might rise in value enough to dwarf the underlying asset and become de facto decentralised.  The gold backing will have been be just a bootstrapping technique, an advancement (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=10755.msg169922#msg169922) over Bitcoin's 50 BTC block generation reward.  To compensate for the cost of mining (low due to shared proof) during the early stage, the gold holder would simply pay miners, perhaps via a mechanism much like block rewards.

The software would recognise some special keys as belonging to the GoldCoin issuer.  We'd need an incentive for miners to include messages signed by them, such as new issuance transactions.  (GoldCoin units would be created only upon transfer of the corresponding amount of gold-backed currency to the issuer's dedicated account.)  I'd write the software so as to regard a block containing an issuer message as "higher" than one without it, thus expressing users' desire to receive the messages.  Other official messages might include price quotes, software or protocol upgrades, news, etc.

Exchange between the digital gold currency (DGC) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_gold_currency) and the cryptocurrency could be fully automatic.  Transfer your DGC to the official account with your address in the memo, and the GoldCoin issuer promises to issue new currency to that address.  Send your GoldCoin to a specially formatted address, which encodes your DGC account number, and the issuer promises to deposit DGC at the current official rate.  If the GoldCoin issuer and the DGC issuer are one and the same, there is no additional trust issue beyond trusting each currency.

GoldMoney won't do this or allow anyone to do it with their DGCs due to regulatory concerns.  Perhaps one of its competitors will.  Pecunix?  Liberty Reserve?  I post this partly in the fear that GoldMoney will patent the system and prevent its implementation for 20 years.  Of course, the same system could work with commodities other than gold: silver, cash, baskets of commodities, etc.

You may be interested in Open Transactions. You can issue digital gold with it.
you can trade it there for digital silver, dollars, bitcoins stored in OT servers, ripple credits and any other currency that is compatible with OT.
I have to admit that I don't really know how it works technically, but it seems that you can do what you want to do with it instead of a chain.
It is cash-like and transactions can be instant (even with bitcoins).

Also, there can be n number of markets in OT.
You just have to define the asset pair, the server will create a market for you!

Thanks for pointing me to OT, it looks promising, at least in the purely asset-backed sense of the proposed GoldCoin.  I'll think about how attached I am to the idea/fantasy that the new currency's Bitcoin-like properties might come to dominate its value and render its gold backing obsolete.

Cross-posted, modulo a few changes: https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/topic/306-ideas-for-goldcommodity-backed-cryptocurrency/

Anybody bought gold coins using BTC yet?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Precious_.26_Base_Metals.2FCoins

thanks

The Three Stages of Bitcoin
http://bitcoin-trader.blogspot.com/2011/10/three-stages-of-bitcoin.html
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KP_58UjEIfE/Tp1VBJptcPI/AAAAAAAADh8/kZWuw9DDuLc/s400/bitcoinstages2.png

Bitcoin Implodes
http://blog.mises.org/18767/bitcoin-implodes/

Some libertarians but "intrinsic value" believers are more close to Marx than they think.
They both believe in so-called value.

..on the discussion of value (which IMO is always subjective)
GoldMoney's Fear Index:
http://www.goldmoney.com/images/thumbnails/fear_index_thumb.png
http://www.goldmoney.com/gold-research/fear-index-sends-clear-message-about-gold-s-value.html
Fear Index sends clear message about gold’s value

Coinabul offers gold exchange too iirc.

GoldMoney video review:
http://youtu.be/3jtl1CEjrxw

Been looking at Coinabul, extremely interesting...
http://www.coinabul.com/
Coinabul: Bitcoin to Gold Marketplace

I continue to think that combining gold's store of value with BTC's ease of transaction and privacy is a winning formula, especially bitcoin inflation will still continue for several years.

GoldMoney App for iPhone and iPad. Not bad:
http://www.goldmoney.com/online-payments.html
http://www.goldmoney.com/images/iphone.gif
http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/031/Purple/bd/31/43/mzl.chefcnzq.320x480-75.jpg

http://itunes.apple.com/app/goldmoney/id306294641?mt=8

Coinabul gold price Gold Oz in BTC

http://coinabul.com/skin/frontend/default/drug-store/images/media/chart.png

tl;dr; Customers may no longer send and receive payments in precious metal.

- http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2011/12/goldmoney-is-no-longer-money.html

And so much for the proposal (http://lewrockwell.com/casey/casey89.1.html) of Doug Casey:

Maybe Doug now will start to understand what a "proven version 2.0" is and looking at bitcoin in a different way...

So sad.   >:(

At least we have a month left to still use it:

It's probably all about this:
United States: FinCEN Answers Frequently Asked Questions About Regulatory Requirements For Gift Cards, Gift Certificates And Similar Stored-Value Cards
08 December 2011
http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/156712/Consumer+Credit/FinCEN+Answers+Frequently+Asked+Questions+About+Regulatory+Requirements+For+Gift+Cards+Gift+Certificates+And+Similar+StoredValue+Cards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36AiN-s6Phw

James Turk: "Let alternative payment systems flourish" @10:40

Odd that he doesn't mention that in two weeks they'll be killing their online payments capability that Lauren (host) was asking about.

This interview with the founder of e-gold explains a lot:
http://www.dgcmagazine.com/blog/index.php/2012/01/16/dgc-magazine-january-2012/

posted by flix:

Doug had some interesting things to say on Bitcoin as well.


Frank

http://www.finextra.com/news/fullstory.aspx?newsitemid=23484

Gold <-> Bitcoin

in Bitmit:
https://bitmit.net/en/trade/i/1388-1-gramm-goldbarren-999-eingeschweisst-neu-vom-haendler/description

https://bitmit.net/en/img/trade_uploads/03-6-2012/1-gramm-goldbarren-999-ei_fdeb0_1_thumb_gal.jpg
1 Gramm Goldbarren 999, eingeschweißt, NEU, vom Händler
_{Buy now:
17.105 BTC}

And another place to buy gold with Bitcoin...

http://www.bitcoinmint.us/

Recently, I contacted GoldMoney with a few questions. Here are the interesting bits:

Concerning Bitcoin:
Sad, but things change.

About delivery and the risk involved with fractional bar ownership:
Very good should a situation arise where it's undesirable to transfer your holdings to your home country.

On asset seizure and/or forced repatriation as occurred with the Netherlands:
Nice to have diverse locations, but it's the legal issues that are more concerning - pressure can be exerted. GoldMoney has to protect itself and its clients as best it can, yet there's only so much it can do.

Regarding production sources:
No direct relationships can mean a few different things. As far as I'm concerned, it would be better to have established lines for sourcing metal in case of a supply squeeze, but there may be other contingencies in place for that event.

Thanks for sharing that info.

I just read "An interview with James Turk":

 [emphasis added]

 - http://www.internationalman.com/im-interviews/an-interview-with-james-turk-co-founder-of-goldmoney-com-part-2

interesting interview
James Turk gives his timeline on the Dollar's Collapse and Gold's role as the messenger!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Gag8rvYF8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://goldstarbullion.com and http://coinabul.com

very interesting interview >Bitcoin, gold and competitive currencies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfzHC7Pf2fk&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfzHC7Pf2fk&feature=player_embedded)

Ah, .. I just made the connection:

Looks like we have a celebrity among us!

- http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5507

Does anyone have any pros & cons regarding moving to the new Brinks vault in Singapore, which GM just announced?

Goldmoney is evaluating the integration of Bitcoin in their site!

You can partecipate to their latest survey here:

https://www.research.net/s/goldmoney-survey-2013

(Bitcoin question on the last pages)

Interesting take from GoldMoney's Geoff Turk (son of James Turk):


via http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com.es/2013/04/mish-interview-with-bitcoin-jesus.html

contra: it's more expensive (GM lowered fees for some vaults and Singapore is priced as before)
pro: Singapore location itself (as not Americas, nor Europe, etc.)

Gold and Bitcoin: Currencies of the Future—James Turk (http://www.theaureport.com/pub/na/15275)
bingo

http://www.netagio.com/

Let's hope that when the beta phase will be over it will be possible to buy&sell metals from goldmoney to/from netagio, that would be so great...

Can't see GM reenabling gold payments any time soon. I got a feeling they got the heat from some kind of external power

...and then of course this happened:

BitGold announces acquistion of GoldMoney
https://www.goldmoney.com/company/news/bitgold



full circle I guess...

Anybody knows if this acquisition will enable to move gold between goldmoney and bitgold and/or buying/selling bitcoins for gold?

I'm selling bitgold for bitcoin
https://i.imgur.com/jvfan6S.jpg
Escrow welcome.

If I open my GoldMoney Holding and begin buying the precious metals today, will it be tax free while exporting or importing to another country and will it reach without any restriction pertaining to the law in their respective countries, so many questions on my mind about GoldMoney, although seems good, but have some risk factor too.