Bitcoin Forum

A currency backed by other currencies.

If say i had 0.1 antimatter coin, at that moment it is worth only 0.1 antimatter coin...but if i stake 1 SXC to it, then every 0.1 antimatter coin is backed by 0.1 SXC. If someone else stakes 1 PNC each 0.1 unit is backed by 0.1 SXC and 0.1 PNC.

Keeping track of the transactions has been a hurdle for abstract coin, i intend to make a client that will handle that issue.
The huge premine will produce the coin that will be distributed via buy-ins using the non-traded coins. The buy-in method implemented, in essence is merging all the non traded coins into one super-coin that has the backing of people who have previously been backing these coins and have been holding them with no sign of exchange. The beginning is very energy efficient since people wont have to divert their hardware to mining it, all you have to do is buy in using your non traded coins. A lot of hash power was used on a lot of non traded coins and this is a method of cashing in on those efforts.

As a result the alts shore up this "idea" coin and as the coin gains popularity your buy in converts into something actually tradable, there by you get returns (finally) on the effort put into mining these non traded alt. I am sure noone wants to be left holding the bag of the non traded alts. By limiting growth of the coin via mining during the first few thousand blocks, we encourage energy and effort saving but making it lucrative to just buy in using your Hazard coins rather than diverting your miners again from profit making.The stakes push the price of each unit up as interest builds. It's an unorthodox merge but it allows us to clean up the forum of the windfall of alts that were released by attaching their value to a single currency. And as the volume of stakes rises, this "coin" may end up being of competitive value due to it's being backed by cumulative derived values of alt coins. This is a project that will (just like Noirbits) be community oriented.

This idea came to us on cryptsy and google chat while we were trying to figure out a way to combine all the alts and solve the issues faced by the community.The unifying idea was born and has been developed and fine tuned. I'd like to make a public apology to r3wt  :P his feedback was ignored but has proven to have insight.  


Non-Tradable currencies accepted as buy-ins (we will update as we do our homework on more of them)
    
SifCoin
CureCoin
XenCoin
WeedCoin
VaginaCoin
FlashCoin
PornCoin
FlorinCoin
AnoCoin
MegaCoin
SuperCoin
ExCoin
ZenithCoin
OneCoin
InfiniteCoin
SkyCoin
SexCoin
DragonCoin
Emerald
USCoin
RealCoin
OneLadtCoin
QuantamCoin
FireCoin2
PowerCoin
SunriseCoin
IceCoin
GameCoin
LiquidCoin
SolidCoin
RuCoin
RedCoin
CosmosCoin
ValueCoin
6Coin

If a coin has been added erroneously please advise. If i missed one, the same applies.

The buy-in period is also limited until the date we hit an exchange from then on people will trade and mine.

The client will be available at launch for authentic method to store your buy in.

wait a sec... is this like Ripple for Abstract Coin?

 i have honestly no idea about how ripple works, does it act as a unifying currency?

I think this is a fantastic idea -

will you only include the non traded coins , or can we also back ANT with some Caps or some precious gem like nibble ?

: D

also can we call it ANT and can it have an Ant symbol as i suggested , everyone seemed to like that  and I'm going to want it so much more if that happens.

Also how far away are you ?  from the ANT derivative ?

i'm still consulting a few people but if their responses come, we can be a go in 24 hrs. all i need to do is secure the bases

I can lend

Plasma rifle

and a

Turbo plasma rifle

for base security, I've been collecting caps for a while -

how many bases need to be secured?

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/9/95167/1621510-fallout3_gun_finished.jpg

Antimatter Rifle -

hehe, we just ordered our own enterprise class just to hover around. All i want is one last person to hop aboard and let me use his platform.

I don't really understand. How do you know exactly was is the price for altcoin1 ... altcoin2 ... altcoinxx ?

we consider 1) Volume mined 2) level of premining 3) distribution 4) how much interest was shown 5) if the chain was forked or any other deal breakers

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s0A_6f9n78E7W1_yt96C4qJJRdRjLCa0ppT9sH4hs7c/edit?usp=sharing

doc for ideas and queries

Please do not vandalize the doc!

who decides ?

i didn't even think of that , i think i just asked the deal breaking question -

there will be a one off poll 24 hours before launch where people will vote the coins in. That way the community part  is satisfied in a free manner.

So it's like a whole BASKET of shitcoins :)
I'm in for sure, got a plethora of muppet coins taking up space on my hard drive.

its like taking dung and making usable fuels.

If you can lock them into things like multisig escrows and merge them into Open Transactions, you will have viable derivatives.

Yes, indeed

You mean using an escrow service to distribute the coins? wow, thanks. I'll look around for a trustworthy guy, any suggestions?

the part i don't get is the merging into Open transactions.

he's basically talking about Nashx - and Nash equilibrium , but he probably/maybe doesn't realize it .

merge into open transaction i'd say just means - "automate the process and make it seamless"

I brought it up in Netcoin - but the Nashx guy done it first - , but i don't think it needs to be done ?

if Ant goes to Cryptsy Ant is being exchanged so the value of the derivative is being exchanged .

he is talking about a P2P exchange .

you will have to run continuous votes as new coins will be wanting to be added all the time , not that this is a bad thing , I'm just saying , also make sure there is large market participation otherwise the obvious will happen, but however that will be equaled out by the exchange of Ants in the future, ha ha interesting flow of electrons here.   

I wasn't aware of Nashx or Netcoin, but yes a Nash equilibrium. I would use interconnected nested multisignature transactions based on coin age and/or WoT.

Or - ok wait for this:


Grab ALL the spam literally as much as you can find

put them in a vote and then request / ask Devs to remove them or send a request for them to be removed.

why?

because you are going to value them all at the same very low price -

if the Dev believes his value to be higher and its going to exchange he will request it to be removed , however if there is no chance that its going to exchange there is no motive to do this.

thus it gets added to the Ant at a = No chance to exchange price value. whatever that may be and could be voted on.

then if the Devs that removed coins find out they are holding something that has no chance to exchange , then they can submit it to Ant.

exceptions to this should be a "viable currency clause" :

for example Kopimikoin is not a "viable currency" as Hazard wrote himself 900k of them, so the market agrees its "not viable" these are the votes that could be taken.

this way the vote motive equation polarity is shifted from the positive to the negative and it will balance.

then there would be two votes in the process and process follows this path :

1. Submit list of currency-
2. verify list for = "viable currency"  Vote if necessary on argument.
3. let list been seen on open market,  request Developers/owners  to remove  if they wish.
4. vote on the final  = "No chance to exchange price" which should never exceed an exchanged currency price or possibly the division of all the exchanged currencies on the market, let market decide.

start filling the Ants legs up  !

Ah i get it!!! Yes that would be perfectly suited for this. But which people to trust with that? my servers are down and i do not own escrow software, perhaps i'll speak with the phenix guys and koolio.

sounds reasonable. but you do know half of them have the same dev right?

hmm interesting and yes you are right of course - , then that Dev has to decide if they are all useless , lets face it , Cryptsy isn't going to add currencies forever its just not feasible.

Cryptsy might add a few more , but at a point i bet C++ code can make them quicker than he can add them .

Ant may help the whole crypto community -  because in this way it's asking the Dev to value his currency - if he chooses to :

A)  remove them all from Ant , but then they will likely never get listed , he could make his own exchange but no one will use it so they have 0 price and he is just creating things that have no value in the hope that he can destroy cryptocurrency or one of them might get taken up one day. , neither of which will happen, as the market determines.

or

B) Admit they are useless shit and have them added to Ant as an exchangeable derivative, but at A price at least.

also it sorts out the problem of Dev monopoly because other Developers do exist and they will submit their failed currency to Ant also .

interestingly -

also the obvious will happen  devs that know they are creating useless shit will create currency just to add to Ant , because they will see it as having an inherit value , in this way you will need to be able to control "inflation" . - if it is done smartly then you could solve the problem of spam crypto being created for the sake of it .  

Ha HA what about a reverse pyramid?

Ok so the first batch of "Coins" can be valued as a group - based on the information in the market today we have to say "some are spam some might not be"

so we exist in this reality so those coins are valued at a = to "No chance to exchange" of say oh lets call it 1 to simplify.

then you have cause an inherit motive in the information market to create a "coin" and submit it to Ant.

so any subsequent batch  has to be valued at lower than this , and the equation is simple reverse pyramid -

First batch
1111111111111111111111111111111  < this is the number in the first batch they all get valued at the same = "no chance to exchange value"

i'm just putting more than one "1" to express the number of currencies int he first batch

Second batch
0.03125

this number is derived by the amount of "coins" that are submitted < i.e there are 32 new pieces of crap released < the devs admit it divide 1 / 32 = 0.03125.
all the second batch of currencies are now valued at 0.03125

Third batch
0.0020833333333333

15 more spam currencies that failed to get to an exchange , Dev(s) admits it -  

0.03125 / 15 = 0.0020833333333333

Fourth Batch  - The spam continues -
0.0010415

2 more spam come and greet our shores -
0.0020833333333333/ 2 = 0.0010415

so on so fourth - ?

this is a very nice an simple solution -

and it solves :

Cryptsy  having to asses these currencies - but still can, but it helps excahnges a lot as if the Dev is 1. absent or 2. has not faith to exchange, why would you ever list that? 

then if there is a Dev revolt by one particular Dev , and all those coins are not added then its likely they are worthless anyhow. 

there will invariably be currencies pulled that the community believes has merit -  these are the currencies that Cryptsy and other exchanges can look at and asses.

wow, what a great valuation idea, this is becoming a reality faster and faster.

You know, its really great to see a community brainstorm as a group to bring a great idea like this to fruition. I can't provide much in the way of dev since i'm currently busy with my own projects, but you do have %100 of my support. Swing for the fences bro.


r3wt

ok, can we also take into consideration the amounts of coin the others have? For instance infinitecoin and zwcoin have absurd block rewards. I do not believe ANT should have a extremely large number of coin, i know devcoin does it, but it just seems messy.

Yeah i think this reverses the motive to create spam - of course if there is no motive then some of that will continue , but interestingly ha ha after the first batch - the Devs will know that the more spam that is created and admitted to then the less value it will have so they have a paradoxical question :

A) Create the spam and don't admit it is spam, ( then the market will know , or call it spam)

B) Don't create as much spam but admit to it and have it valued higher inside Ant.

ha ha , i like those options

r3wt.

what is nano all about?  i'll do a giveaway , I'll do it on digitalcurrencytalk.com (http://digitalcurrencytalk.com)  I'm trusted in this forum and that forum.

yes this needs to be done indeed.  - so wait , is infinite-coin literally never ending  with huge block rewards ?

this would be cause to throw to a "viable currency vote"

if the forum believes its not viable then it is excluded -

however then with the other currencies  the total cap would need to be looked at , hmm need to think on this . ..

ok so the Ant is there and at the start he has say 34 Legs - 34 Devs admit that = "no chance to exchange" so in each leg of the Ant goes each currency valued at exactly the same value.

this value adds up and creates a ratio downward the more that goes in ? so maybe the same principal :

i will take two examples :

Currency A has a very large block reward
Currency B has a very low block reward - the Gem and Bitbar type

both are submitted to the Ant leg

Leg 1 - large block reward is valued at 1 (in the first batch) with the first unit being valued at that in the ant body as more come in it divides the unit down
Leg 2 - small block reward comes in at 1 (in the first batch) with the next coming in much more slowly but dividing down as they do

Sum all legs to get final Ant value?

then rinse and repeat - the next batch will have legs of lesser value that get divided in the same way, yes? does this work ?


but as Ant is trade-able  there will be the Ant number and the Ant Value - that's what makes it fun .

but in this way you could still make it a low number with its own Ant cap right  ?

Chat soon on this , need maybe more input.

does it act as a unifying currency?

Currency A has a very large block reward
Currency B has a very low block reward - the Gem and Bitbar type

yes it is a unifying currency.

let me think on this.

It will only be a success if I can explain it to my mother.

Too complicated, I think.
You guys?

the release will be simple, this is a technical thread.

I like it! like toxic assets for cryptos  ;D

what happpens to the coins that are traded in?   will they be destroyed?

does your mother know what an Ant is ?

as per , this is the technical thread.

good question and this relates a little bit to part of the answer :

Inside the Ant legs are two types of currency :

A) Traded Currency (apparently from Crytsy and Virx)

B) "Toxic Assets"  anything that is considered = "No chance to exchange"

The Ant is derived from the sum of all these so:

A) would be able to be taken from the Ant Leg and traded however you want i assume at market price / but you can also trade the Ant as a whole.

B) when a user submits "toxic Assets" i suppose they can take them back to their inherit value of 0 , they will have to exist inside the client "Ant Leg" as a number to be tracked.


To solve the problem of The whole Ant number i think is solved with the non traded currencies , because as per the reverse pyramid  :

The first batch :

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 <  

Each "1" here represents the value of a whole currency , so whatever that number ends up being represents the theoretic currency Cap so you would you only ever see a whole "1" in the ant leg if theoretically every unit of that currency was in there  this solves the block reward issue.

A - large block reward submits 5,000,000 units (which is 20%) of its total Cap

B - Low block reward submits 5 units (which is 20%) of its total Cap

both go in at 0.2  sticking to the "1" scenario of the first batch.


Now for Traded currencies with crazy block rewards , not sure have to think more -

This looks interesting ,release time ?

wondering about this as well. looks exciting.

Any word on when this might happen?

we are still on the technical stuff but two weeks is a good guess. The name can be changed if the majority wants a different one. i was thinking of removing the "coin" part and just leaving it as antimatter

how bout this for a slogan

Anti

If you don't
MINE
then it don't

MATTER.

intial poll to see which coins are liked for the idea... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248974.0

i can add anycoin you feel should be in the running

The devs are deciding on the algo right now. As things stand we want to make it more lucrative to buy in in the beginning so that people focus on mining traded coins without having to divert their miners, they essentially mined their way in by mining the old coins. it was suggested that we use a cpu friendly algo to limit growth in the beginning but we all know how that goes, instead i believe graduating rewards from 1- 50 depending on nHeight will resolve the issue. once these decisions are made it becomes a matter of hours before launch. And because of the buy in factor, there is no "instamining" the premine was done by the entire community...unless you are really new and missed the altcoin showdown last month.

Honestly I would just call it Ant  , drop all coin ref .  As for just me , I just witnessed a topic in which you called for praying to Jesus that goldcoin gets listed to mtGox , these are all the signs of a sick person.

So with that in mind ,  I'd call the currency Ant , it will be shortened to that anyhow.

But in the end itsva great idea .

ANT incoming, testnet being tested at this moment. please vote in the coins you want.

ready to get this party started!

our party!!!

This will be like jumping on an ants nest .

any news?

i have been working tirelessly on getting a dispensation method, but all escrow services have not replied, ergo with the communities' permission, we would elect five individuals to handle dispensation for each coin. I have sent multiple emails and pm's but it seems they are not interested. The client is ready and functional, all i need is a automatic way for people to buy in, if i do it manually, it may take time.

Release is in 24 hours

I still don't understand how buy-in will work? We will just send coins from Tradecoin(as example) wallet to ANT wallet ? or there will be some exchange or something?

I don't see any release?!

respectfully, i had to alter algorithm, i had disabled rewards for 2k blocks but newbies have expressed hat they do not have buy in means so they would like to mine. i am adjusting the algo.

So nothing will happen? Any updates, any information? Release was supposed to be many days ago.

i have finished product, but coins-e has added some of the listed coins so i have been watching the votes. Sexcoin has a new client so i updated mine but i cant get in contact with the other person who will be assisting with the buy-in scheme.

interested! subscribed!

So Ripple for shitcoins.

I like it.

i do not know how ripple works.

actually, after I realized newbie interest, i decided to make mining possible right of the bat. All i want to know is are people comfortable with the buy-in scheme for old coins. Since i do not own a escrow service it will have to be manually done via thread.... which tiresome as it is, i will do.

I think we will be fine, shitcoins are shitcoins :)

Although if you will steal any then people will get mad :D

I'd like to believe my trades and Noirbits show my character, i believe in fairness all round.

seems cool

Ripple is literally this but with fiat currency and BTC.

Manual buy ins sound terrible, fix that ASAP.

I'd also rather not mine.

Manual buy in is terrible, but buy in is one of the promises i made about this coin. I'm not happy about the manual part because it means more work for me. I've tried contacting most escrows but either they are uninterested or they want more than i can safely provide. My ideas are open ideas, for community use, development and benefit. If you can help find two escrow services willing to assist, that would be great.

it's mine or buy in. Every coin is worthless until us as a community give it value.

So any progress?

Interesting. I'd try it.

I recently got freed of my obligations to Noirbits, so i now have all the time i need. However as time has had an effect on things, i'll be tweaking a few of the finer points, note that there are a lot of exchanges that have come to light recently and they all love cryptos...

Wait....  So, this coin has zero value. But then someone gives you a million coins that also have no value, and your coin still has zero value. Then some of those coins go on to rise in value, which raises the value of your coin. You then sell the underlying coins (the ones staked to you)...

NO... every coin is worthless until it is given trade value, essentially instead of having 20+ untradable coins that clearly won't have a market, you buy into a coin that has better chances of being traded.

Yes, but the value of antimatter would be only in a market developing for one of its underlying coins. So, one of the coins gains value. Therefore the coins that you own have that value, AND there is implied value in the antimatter coins, which are owned by others. Now, you can sell your underlying coins and capture that value, while the holders of the antimatter coins might still value their coins as if they were still backed by what you just sold... Or am i missing something here?

Actually, value of this coin rises from the fact that you place value on the time and resources used to mine the crap coins, since noone trades or uses them, you can buy in to this one, someone else with his collection of crapcoins will also buy in, it cascades. in the end we have +500 people who instead of being divided between +25 untraded coins now push forward one coin. User base plus activity= people notice. Once people notice it gains momentum, with that people begin to actively support it, ergo one who has a hundred of them now expects a certain amount of compensation for them... that my friend is value. please tell me, have you heard of skycoin? or 6coin and 8coin? there so many other examples of coins that got attention but died at some point yet we still have holders. By bringing these holders together under a common denome, they attain value for their while, it may be smaller or greater than expected, but that is for the market to decide.

what happened with this?

Integrated with my Noirbits project as NoirTokens, release is early in january. check The Black Watch thread for updates.