Bitcoin Forum

So, I was pondering ponzi/HYIP investment sites and came up with what I think is a provably fair and fully transparent game.  I was wondering if anyone else had had the idea before me and what you guys thought of it?

The idea is that the players pay x satoshis into an address.  Quite simply, once ten deposits have been made the contents of the address is divided among the players.  One gets 40%, one gets 30%, one gets 20% and the house gets 10%.  This gives you a roughly 3:10 chance of winning (and there is no reason for the house to cheat as they get their 10% whatever).  I am not a gambler, but I like those odds.  The groupings of 10 would be based on the order of the transactions in the block chain and the winners would be picked based on the last digits of the last 3(ish) transactions ids.  That would be fairly hard to fix from a players point of view.  If you think its rigged then just check the blockchain.

On the whole, it would be fairly easy to implement and be pretty scalable.  You could have games for bets of 100, 1000, 10000, 1000000, sats etc.  You could have time based games.  The pot is open for an hour and the winner is decided the same way but at greater odds.

What do you think?

I suppose 10% is a bit much.  One player could get 5% (half their stake) back as well and maybe another with 3%.  As long as there is a high turn over 2% would probably be enough.

Only issue could be transaction times.  I don't want any user accounts.  I don't store your details and you can't hack me.  Players pay into pot address and get paid straight from it.  Waiting for your transaction to clear would add another random element to the whole thing.  Might be the case that you place your bets and once all the confirmations are in, the results are shown. 

You want to put each bet to blockchain? What about transaction fee?
Now it 30000 sat per transaction. It's too much.

That's a bit much.  You can add whatever fee you want. 

Seems Dice is more profitable than this game... (And Dice isn't profitable).

Let's say we are playing a round with 1000 satoshis bet. 10 players = 10.000 satoshis; One will get 4000, other will get 3000, more 2000 to another gambler and 1000 satoshis goes to the house. 7 gamblers earn nothing...

The idea isn't bad, interesting concept, but it's still unprofitable like any other gambling game.  :D
Maybe you want to show this game is needed because it would be a fair game, but I can say casinos offer fair games too, they use provably fair system, so it would depend the preference of each gambler.

The problem with this game is that you will always have to play with 30% winning chance and you always need at least 10 people to play a round.

Maybe someone can check your idea and introduce it on a casino like an experiment.  :)

Take a look at the fast lottery (faucethub.io/lottery). It's very similar to your idea/

So you wants to say that people will deposit their coins to give you 10% of their deposit?? Maybe your game can be probably fair but 10% house edge will be too much to ask.

Since Bitcoin transaction fees are very high so this concept will not a success because many people may want to bet a small amount to try the lottery.

Also, if you ask people to pay you 10% no one will even look into it. First, at least you should start with no house edge until you get more players then can add small house edge like 1 to 3%, not 10%.

So you are basically thinking of forming some "Legit Ponzi" gambling scheme.

Basically exactly like a Ponzi scheme except you know its a scheme and gambling so it might be somehow legal.

Basically 10 people send some BTC and the last person gets nothing after a certain period of time while the first 9 get equally divided up portions.

Is this what you are thinking?

Threre are enouph gambling site its looks like ponzi schema

10 people will send BTC but only 3 will be picked as the winners and they'll split the 90% of the total amount the remaining 10% will go to the house.

What OP wants is to make a blockchain based lottery. I'm not against it but it'll be expensive for those who want to bet with a small amount.

What if the confirmation takes too long ?

I don't have anything against your idea, and I will just leave you with some thoughts that occurred me. First, what you are describing is just another form of lottery, but with better odds of wining something. Nothing wrong there, and sometimes the simple things work best. I do think that 10% as house profit is just to much. You need to think about scalability. Sites that charge commission and always win no matter what they do (casinos, poker sites, lotteries) normally don't charge commissions that big, because they don't have to, since they will have a great profit in the long term, no matter what.

I think that 5% commission is more than reasonable, and even there, it's a bit on the large side. Finally, although the house doesn't need to cheat, it's important that the draw is fair (otherwise the house could just put some payments on the address, and make sure they win), so yes making it provably fair would be very important.

Seems like there are few online casinos running ICOs based on blockchain.

https://funfair.io/
https://dao.casino/
etc...

I think ideas looks good but the only problem with this is players need to wait for 9 more players to deposit on the pot and when site will be new it will be hard to get all 10 players at a time.

Next thing is those high house edge of 10% you are talking about.

There is already many blockchain based games where you will get paid within 1 block confirmation and they are provably fair like you have suggested (through block hashes).

I think you don't have bankroll so want to just take out profit from every round which might not work well.

Yes, its all about scale.  As per my second post, another spread would be 25%, 20%, 20%, 15%, 10%, 5%, 2%, 2%, 1%, 0.5% and house 0.5%.  That way 4 players profit, one breaks even but the remaining 5 get something back.  Maybe something similar with 5 players to start.  36%, 26%, 26%, 11%, 0% and 1% house where your stake would be 20% .  You need different odds to add more of an incentive.

I suppose it is more like a lottery.  It wouldn't be a click, click, click game.  It would be a click and come back in half hour game.  If the returns are good then then lots of people will play, meaning quicker games and smaller house %.  I just wouldn't want to make something that was just rehashing the same old cards and dice games.  Also it would be nice to stack it in the players favour rather than the house.  ;)

yeah i agree 10 percent in every player wow he can get easy money, and also a high trasaction fee what will happen to the bet of the player i'm also very very sure no want can subcribe your site unleast you can revise the rules of charges fee if he want to success the project.

 :) :) :) :) so house will be 1% MAX from now on. :) :) :)

That is a good move but what do you think about high transaction fees?

I think you may need to consider to design your game based on other altcoins which can confirm transaction faster with the very low fee then you may get players. No one wants to waist so much transaction fee to bet.

Who has the cheapest fees these days?  ETH, LTC?  I sent some BTC a while back with a couple of hundred in fees and it still went through.  You don’t have to accept the default fees.  You can send several bets in the same transaction if I set up several addresses.  Maybe if you pay 100ks into a 10ks game that transaction gets entered into the next 10 games.

in the past the gambling sites which have done lotteries haven't been all that successful either. I think a lot of people even though it's provably fair are skeptical about it.

This is more redistribution of the bets than a lottery.  5 people put money in and 99% of the money goes back to those 5 people in a different ratio.

So far I have been trying to get as many winners out of a game as possible.  Do you care?  Would you like bigger winnings if the odds were longer?  If there were 10 players and the pot was split 50%, 20%, 20%, 9% and house 1%.
20%,20%,20%,20%,19% and house 1%. 

What sort of ratios would appeal to you?

To be honest i don't think lotteries are very popular and you will hard get few participants(I could be wrong too).
Besides, some gambling sites have lotteries, you can easily find ev+ lottery and it is much easier to buy tickets at one of the gambling sites.
But if you want to run blockchain lottery, sure, why not? Go for it, I wish you good luck.

If 10 players join, there should be 1(or 2) reward. It is lottery.
More players - higher pot - more rewards.

should'nt be too hard to write a smart contract for this...
But need of use of a currency with lower fees, like ethereum

Yes, this might do since btc are on huge transaction fee but still people are used to btc rather than other altcoin. May be it is the best alternative to do since altcoin have better transaction speed and fee. But you will find that there will always better player on btc rather than altcoin on most site. Altcoin is only some diversion to them after they losing some btc. But it is really good if OP can give some altcoin out

Why would need to choose if you can have both? Since there are still some people who do always prefer to use up bitcoin without minding those fees but i would say regarding on how high the tx fee nowdays then they will surely change their mind and might switch to altcoins.On this case putting both options would really be an advantage thing because if gamblers would able to see this they wont really hassle theirselves on which one they would select.It would really depend on their preference.

If I code it right I should be able to run the same games on BTC and ETH/LTC.  I don’t want accounts as that can be hacked.  If the money comes in and goes out from the same address, there’s less to lose.

So you want something like on-chain gambling. To be honest, there have been tons of those kinds of games. But really, not has survived. A lot of them just died because the fees for the game are quite a pain in the ass for everybody. For example, a player plays with just 0.01btc and he pays 0.0005btc on top of that bet. Then he wins with just 0.0095btc that means he is not playing at a house edge of 1%. I hope you got my drift.

pretty easy to implement as in are you a backend dev?
all in all the idea is nothing really fascinating and it won't be beating any player base records
especially since the site will be new,without advertising,starting capital or bankroll
the best shot would be posting it in the appropriate section and see if anyone wants to participate in developping it

Having looked into the legal paperwork, it looks too expensive and technical if i want too do it legally.  If anyone wants do do the paperwork and hire me to write it, PM me.