Bitcoin Forum

http://bittalk.tv/post/7093402074/bittalk-with-atlas-atom-2-the-greek-bitcoin

We have a lot say in this week's episode covering Flexcoin (the new Bitcoin Bank), Bitcoin retail solutions and Bitcoin's future over the world beyond.

Enjoy!

Are you still stealing people's CPU cycles without their knowledge?

Calling some business a "bank" doesn't make it a bank. Banks provide some well defined services:

1. Keeping deposits safe-this is not needed with bitcoin. Nobody can keep your bitcoin safer than you can yourself.

2. Lending at interest- this is very foolish when dealing with a generally appreciating currency. Underlying security for the loan decreases rather than increases over time. Negative equity becomes common which makes intentional loan defaults go up.

If you want to generate income off of your bitcoin holdings without selling your coin, write covered call contracts and sell them. This caps your up side, but other than that, relatively risk free (assuming your options broker doesn't skip town).

A Bitcoin Bank is unnecessary and should be met with serious skepticism.

No.

Frankly I would use a deposit bank so I could pay a small fee to know my BTC are safe and accessable by myself or my relations in a safe and secure manner.

Eating! back later

Listening to it right now. Enjoying it so far.

There's nothing a "bank" can do to make your coin secure and accessible that you can't do yourself or with the aid of some basic precautions and an ewallet. If you want to insure your coin against loss, then you need an insurance company, not a bank.

So because, with study and care, I have the ability to secure my own property to a degree you deem safe, I am no longer allowed to decide for myself that I would like to spend my life on things besides security for a small fee?

I really don't see what the problem is here - If you don't like the concept, than don't use it.  Educate people to your way of thinking, but don't be surprised when not everyone feels like you.

http://static.tumblr.com/onu5olv/Ra5ln9e9i/9yjbt.png (http://bittalk.tv/post/7093402074/bittalk-with-atlas-atom-2-the-greek-bitcoin)

BitTalk with Atlas & Atom #2 - The Greek Bitcoin!

I don't believe this episode is up on iTunes yet, and unfortunately we're going to have to wait for Atlas to return to the internets either tomorrow or the following day before that can be fixed, The episode is available both on our website BitTalk.tv (http://www.bittalk.tv), and via direct download link at the bottom of this post.  Please note the BitTalk.tv website does not use Java BTC mining, regardless of what you may have heard - We just want you to listen.

Topic list

*The First Bitcoin Bank (http://www.flexcoin.com/) (Money for Nothing, Bits for Free?)

*Bitcoin ATM (http://biticon.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/bitcoin-atm/) & The Retail Solution

* The Greek Bitcoin (http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/)

* Dramatic Re-enactment of “Man From The Future Shares His Story” (http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/06/29/man-from-the-future-shares-his-story/)

Media credits for this episode go to NETWORK, "Polaroid Solution" by Faded Paper Figures, and "Summertime" by Billy Stewart

Direct Download Link - Right click and select "Save As" (http://traffic.libsyn.com/bittalk/BitTalk_with_Atom__Atlas_2.mp3)

Share and Enjoy.

Contact us:
Email bittalkradio AT gmail DOT com
Leave us a Message:  (740) 521-9248

haha whoooa boy thats quite a podcast. Apparently bitcoins will destroy centralized government and create world anarchy... but luckily we will have a nice stable technology boom since patent laws were the only thing holding us back, everyone wins! yay future!

You'd rather we do nothing but talk about worst case scenarios?  We didn't write the Interview, just shared it with you as another point of view.

Perspective is important.

I think this is actually the only real purpose for a bitcoin bank I can think of so far... Is if they charged you a monthly 'insurance' fee to guarantee like 80% of your coins incase of a hack or something. You are right, they couldnt do much more than you would on your own to secure it... but remember not everyone is an IT admin. So this is a definitely a service that would be used if many normal people were using the system.

Of course with this assurance they are selling you would hope they would be spreading out all those coins over many servers etc so if one was hacked they could cover the losses from profits... and if not, well then steal everything thats left and run for mexico.

Really enjoyed the podcast. You both have great presentation and speaking skills, sometimes a rarity in tech and financial circles. It is also obvious you are both passionate about your ideas and opinions. It was a pleasure listening and I look forward to the next episode!

Your title strikes out to me.

Good talk and good ideas, a pleasure to listen to.

now about Greece:

Who is going to do this? Who would care to institute a real world currency (be it Bitcoin-backed or gold-backed or whatever) in our country?

Protesters that demand jobs, social benefits and early retirement in an economy that cannot be competitive any more because we just cannot devalue our currency?

Enterpreneurs that demand liquidity (banks have frozen almost all credit lines) for people to be able to borrow and spend again like before?

Politicians that want to save their ass as number 1 priority (and there is no number 2 priority in fact)?

Or bankers that are afraid, not of the shareholders' losses (I don't think they give a shit in fact), but that if they take the long winding road and bear the restructuring costs, next quarters' result will not look good and they stand to lose their high paying jobs, their houses, their cars, their stock options value and their mistresses ?

None of the above would be willing to give up or compromise. Not even for a day as it seems. Though any reasonable person with basic economic knowledge would see that if everybody gives up for a few years on their wish to retain their fiat money benefits, this would open up actual possibilities for recovery and progress.

The above also goes to say that we have been eroded (from the inside) and the cry for freedom and fairness does not necessarily come from a clean inside source, but rather from an already distorted view of reality.

I don't think we're desperate enough for this yet. Having said that, I personally will give it a try at least, as best as I can. Not much you might say, but at least what I can personally guarantee.

All the best.

If things keep going like they are in greece, we'l see a complete collapse of the government.  There will be chaos, and in chaos is always opportunity - It wouldn't take much, just abandonment of the euro in favor of doing business locally with bitcoins among the younger, more tech savvy generation.  BTC is a fantastic medium for transaction in theory, this would be an opportunity to see it in practice.

But to answer your question of "who would do it" - The greek people would have to, not all of them or even most of them, just enough. 

Re: Greece:

Perhaps I'm not understanding you, Atom, but it sounds like you're under the impression the folk rioting are doing so...  as some sort of anti-government movement?

I would submit that it looks to me like the folks in the street are not into stable currency and minarchy, but instead are the recipients of entitlements losing their shit over a government that can no longer hand it out.

The riots are anti-austerity, which covers a number of greivences.

No problem at all. I just don't see a need for it or enough of a demand to make it viable. Instead of study and care concerning procedures, you substitute study and care to ensure the bank is competent and trustworthy. That doesn't save you much effort and time if any. 

I could be wrong. As always, the market has the last word.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it most probably is a duck.

What you say n0m4d is much closer to the truth than it seems.

However, as I have seen to be the case, no one is 100% like that. There might be a range of 10-90% of doubt in each one of us thinking "What if we actually can't go on like this?". Those that have 10% of this, dismiss the thought quickly, like a bad nightmare in the morning. Those that have above 70% are not rioting in the streets. They are preparing for the next phase, which is coming.

The Greeks generally are a bunch of spoiled socialists with an unearned sense of entitlement, BUT they are correct that this bail-out has nothing to do with "saving" them. It's all about saving the banks that foolishly lent the Greek government money. The greek government, like most governments everywhere, shelled out tons of money to buy the support of various voting blocks and interest groups. Now that they are running out of stolen money to bribe the populace with, the people are turning on them. There are no good guys.

The banks lent money to untrustworthy borrowers
the government made promises they couldn't keep
the people believed the promises and spent the hand-outs.

Greece should default NOW. If they delay, the default will only be bigger when it happens.

Couple of things

1) Greece is a popular whipping boy right now, lots of blame going to the people - But the question it always comes back to for me, is did they know what they were doing?  Were they informed what would transpire as a result? I think the answer generally speaking is "No" - So how can you lie to someone all their lives, mis-educate them, and then be surprised when they act on that information and make poor choices?     This is a situation that is repeating and playing out all over the world, people have been lied to their entire lives not just about details but about fundamental facts of how the world works.  The bill is due, and nobody has the $$ to pay it so they just keep doubling down rather than let the game end.

The should have declared bankruptcy years ago, when the problem was a mere 50 billion shortfall.  Compare that to now, after two years of austerity and multiple bailouts, the tab for just this latest bailout is up to 120 billion.... Are the people benefiting from this?  Did they gain anything, or see any sort of advantage as a result of these austerity measures?  No. 

I'm very much not in favor of socialism as a governing principle, I think it encourages non-productive behavior by taking the onus of providing for ones-self off of ones-self and putting it onto the backs of the few who remain motivated (at first) despite the lack of incentives.  It's why the pie has to keep getting bigger, since everybody gets the same sized slice, eventually nobody bothers to make it!

This doesn't specifically deal with the greece situation, but it's relevant and worth watching - Dmitry Orlov's recent talk "Twilight of the Antipodes" (http://vimeo.com/25262968)

Things don't have to be the way the are, but you can only "know" that once you understand that it hasn't always been this way.   Perspective is important, and getting more important every day.

Thanks for the comments, keep 'em coming.

"Interest = Always Bad"

??? Really?? No justification apart from showing that exponential things are exponential.

Orlov does not like capitalism, that's for sure.   Regarding the interest thing, the justification was that reality intervenes in ones plans from time to time, and interest has no way to account for such interventions.

I thought it was a very interesting concept of how life could be.  So many possibilities!

 ;D

Atom-

Glad to see you're not just jumping on the "it's anti-gov, so it must be awesome!" bandwagon.  That was my only concern.

Keep it up.  I don't care if it takes longer to produce an episode, produce a good episode.