Bitcoin Forum

10k value for a digital check simply doesn't make sense; this market is not mature, or ready - the 2 main exchanges are down during any significant BTC rise or drop/once you can't sell, you can't sell at any price, while the Coinbase VP says institutional investors will bring liquidity to the market/I read the rich getting richer; make no mistake, the shorts are coming as soon as BTC options gets listed, and I will be one of them; simply because this is an electronic avoid-the-government scheme is not enough to me-I can send money NOW on Western Union anywhere in the world and pay less for instant NOW transactions. Care to argue- go ahead

No one is forcing you anyway.  ;D It's up to the user if he will take the risk or not. And it's your money, so no one can dictate on your decisions.

Pretty much yes, it matter of choice. Being involved in cryptocurrencies as a currency, as a storage, as an income, as a mode of transaction and convenience is never our decision but yours.
The volatile characteristic of bitcoin surely makes this industry profitably exciting. If you do not want to take risk then be it your loss. Future lies ahead for bitcoin users. Wise decision making is a must.

You have raised some valid points and i am also not denying the fact that western union or paypal can send money almost anywhere in the world. But what you are missing is when bitcoin get listed more people will trust bitcoin and more people will invest on it. Shorting bitcoin is just a short term strategy, what they usually do is hold it for long period of time.

If you think that bitcoin is  just a digital check to avoid the government then you really need to do more research.

Anyways that is your money and your decision.

As long as you are looking bitcoin as transaction medium it is fine. Because, it is much faster than any other payment.
When you are looking this as a profit making investment then you need to have more patience.

Let me know how much WU is charging for sending 100 000$ from Australia to Peru.
I know that with bitcoin I pay 4$ right now.


Actually is not that fast,or cheap.. it depends on situation.
National bank transfers here are almost instant at 0 fee, I can send my friend 100 euros in matter of second from my phone and he will get it usually under a minute ready to be spent although there is a limit to 5000.

But when it comes to large sums involving international transactions (outside SEPA) then bitcoins rules.

I agree with you.
No one is forcing him, i think he should rather join the race early to benefit from this opportunity
rather than to say he's out.

Have to agree with the op here in that btc as it is now will never become mainstream, too many faster and cheaper alternatives. It is nothing more than an investment vehicle, like people paying millions for crap at an auction ... perceived value.

As for shorting, the bitcoiners have no idea what is coming. The fact that MOST can only go long now is the only reason for this sustained bull market.

Wait until btc goes on a regulated exchange and can be shorted easily and you will see downtrends that will make these current brief down spikes look like blips.

Shorting is as viable a strategy as holding, as you said, but even more so a more profitable strategy because markets fall with more force than they rise typically.

 I hope you are not counting on these sustained gains once shoring and regulation happens.

This is why the US government and China are going to come down fast and hard on crypto....and without mainstream warning.  Capital controls are one of the biggest issues within the topic of national security.

For mass adoption? It really isn't. Visa is much better performance wise, as it can handle far far more transactions. Does this mean you have to lose faith? I haven't. There are issues and we acknowledge that they exist. It's not like there aren't solutions. Segwit is being rolled out, and Lightning Network is on the way. We'll get there.

Western Union is fine and all, but Bitcoin is better for larger transactions. It still has a niche there, at least.

True, but the possibility of people to join early is a difficult thing. Because some people know the world of crypto not simultaneously. On the other hand there are also people who just observe and do not take the decision to not join early. But with you we can not impose the will because everyone has their own considerations. But I personally think it is not a late moment to join. Thank you

Risk is what all traders must accept when participating in trading. The value of the bitcoin pump-dump is what the trader wants.

That is why I so hate the coming CME Futures Market, it in my opinion is the beginning of Government intervention, and regulation. What has been a decentralized opportunity will soon be controlled, by forces other than a transaction between a buyer and a seller. “ I’m from the government, I’m here to help”

That's correct if you are in bitcoin for short time trading then you need to use more than just one exchange, and if you know that exchange is known to go down when BTC fluctuates then you should stop using it. If this is something that you can't do, then trading simply isn't for you.

Bitcoin is not only another digital check, its blockchain based tech which is now being adopted by big corporations including visa and mastercard. $10k per bitcoin is still under valued if you look at total supply of bitcoin which can't be extended and number of online financial transactions occurring everyday (its in multi trillion dollar range).

Lol. it's value is given by us, maybe you'r giving up because of gamlbing.. because you must know you make richier WU while using them and perhaps BTC has lowest fees.

bro, it is never too late to join, unless you have very strong reason to say that 10k is the peak and will not rise anymore, then i will agree with you.

Choice is belong to anyone so you can decide what you want to do with your life.
Involve or not is not really important issue. So nobody will force you in or out.
Bitcoin has big value so somebody will try to defeat it.
I am sure value of bitcoin is real depend on supply and demand.

Quadrupling your money in less than a year makes sense. And this is merely the beginning. Predictions by experts and non-experts vary only on the number of times it would go up.

I do not think that's why you out bitcoin. Actually you are worried about the bitcoin value going up or down erratically or you even have to cut losses because of it.

it is up to him, but for me, I will take the benefit while I can and I can use the opportunity to take the risk. it is the personal option to still trade or not and other people can not force getting out from the trade. I think we should know the risk first before we make a decision so we don't regret in the future.

I am not trying to debate but if we have the option which will give us big advantages, then why we don't take it and tried. in another side, every option has a risk and we need to realize that we should try the best we can.

It is very right, one's action is based on his own speculation, nobody knows what will happen in the future. It may go to 100k in 2 years, or be burnt down to the ground, the only thing matters is how much risk you want to take.

why would we want to argue with the things you said! you don't know what you want yourself, your thoughts are all over the place you talk about price being high then talk about sending money and call it "avoid-the-government". you are either here for the money or you are here because bitcoin is decentralized and you want to use it as a currency. you can't be both.
and obviously you are trying to short bitcoin and buy back at the lowest price and think if you make topics like this you can make more money.

and good luck with your western union "cheap" transactions ;)

Exactly! We are all in this cryptocurrency/Bitcoin thing on a voluntary basis and that is why because this is an open market people come and go in fact you can see in many trading sites that people are selling their Bitcoin as well as some who are buying. We still live in a democracy and since it is nobody else's money then OP has all the right to leave anytime but also the right to get back when he feels that the circumstances warrant his return.

People who have been into Bitcoin for many years are just smiling when viewing the many challenges and issues which the coin is facing right now. There were times when Bitcoin made heavy crashes enough to make someone go berserk but as what we are saying 'what does not kill you can in fact make you stronger'...that is basically the story of Bitcoin. It is not perfect and may never be but it is opening up new avenues unexplored before in giving us the power back into our hands.

I completely understand your side but to be honest, these things happen when you undergo milestones through the development phase. Bitcoin early adopters (from 2009 to 2011) have received their rewards for being with it since then when nothing was clear.

When I started getting involved with it, I was aware of the fact that I can lose my money and time if things don't work down the road but that insecurity is what you invest and get returns in the future. I am pretty sure that we will find the concrete solution for the current issues soon but still advise that if you are not comfortable with the price required to pay during the development, don't stake it.

That's the point, even though bitconi when first created is not for an option of investment but people doing it on their own will anyway. Maybe it will looks doesn't make sense seeing bitcoin's price as a whole but bitcoin have the decimals amount and can be divided into pieces. Therefore it's still worth as a currency and investment.
You just don't need to be surprised seeing the high price, it can even go higher, just compare how much the total supply of bitcoin and the amount of "always growing" bitcoin adopters.

I mean this can still happen at any time, in my opinion. Cryptocurrencies are an experiment that are being done for the first time ever, so I think nobody really knows how thing will eventually turn out. I'm still mentally prepared to lose my investment in case the market goes south quickly for some reason.

Good luck getting 800%+ interest on your money and sending large amounts with WU at Bitcoin's miners fees. We will welcome you back when Bitcoin implemented the Lightning Network and you have to buy back in at $50 000/BTC

Bitcoin offers us so much more than simply being a commodity. A lot of people see the value of their wealth depreciate every day and they can do noting about that, until Bitcoin offered them a Safe heaven. <The nature of Fiat money>

Bye bye....

in my experience those that are "OUT" for real don't feel the need to come back and make a public announcement of what they have done, specially with a throwaway account.

but those that area deep "IN" and want to get deeper "IN" feel the need to make statements like this specially when they wish for a price drop.

you could have said this while price was rising towards $11,000 and get out if you were unhappy about things ;)

no problem. Therefore, bitcoin is much faster than other payments.
When you are looking for this as a profit-making investment then you need to have more patience. because bitcoin has stage stages to earn money.

I would love to buy your bitcoins if you really have some, no one is forcing you to be in the crypto world. Bitcoin community needs more people who sees it as a currency and not just an asset that they would sell once the price goes high. Once almost all of the community are consists of people who sees it as a currency then bitcoin will definitely have a higher price than today.

There are several exchanges that you can chose from you can just remove those exchanges who went down during the price pump.