Bitcoin Forum

I want to give credit here - it was this comment and the OP AliceWonder that lead me to this vision.


Let me lay this out  -


In the future for Crypto to be incorporated to the "public" and not centralized it needs to be seamless, and easy.

I envision a "Vault" its the users Crypto Vault its a specialized piece of hardware with encryption built in, but is easy to use on a custom OS, etc.

in the Set up of this device , all and any Crypto can only be sent to the users "Wallet" - basically the portable device - Possibly just a card.


This is what the future Crypto Banks will be all about -    

as i said , {arrogantly} - information systems are my thing:

but to be successful - Confidence and security are 1 and 2 , after the two prime features I mentioned up-thread. < read the other thread


The first Crypto banks functions will aim to provide seamless centralized security with human face to face interactions - with fees being happily paid by the Crypto community for the benefit.

These mini "Vaults" will be literally onsite at a "Bank" location - users can come to the bank and go though the ID verification process and Transfer currency savings from the "Vault" to the "Wallet".

the ID verification process has a minimum Verification with other optional extras that the Crypto user can add on possibly at extra cost.

The "Wallet" will have all the normal standard security features but in the event that a user:

1. loses their password or
2. forgets their "verification password"
3. becomes the victim of theft.

They can always use the Banks features to pause or stop the existing Wallet and go back to the Central Authority that they originally registered and ID themselves and either reset or reissue a "Wallet".

Of course the transactions of a "Vault" to a "Wallet" are one way essentially.

You may say - "how would you Pause a wallet?" - well a Wallet is a piece of firmware essentially , it doesn't have to have the security of a Vault its a usability/security trade off like old world internet banking right now, so if encrypted communication can be sent to the Wallet from the Vault or Bank on the event of theft, then the transaction can be reversed or paused, just as happens now.


**
save the Anon bullshit - this is how it will work, its a completely opt in user pays system, if you want to try to achieve complete Anon then don't opt in - most people will . seriously save it, i don't care, and neither do 99% of the population, if you are that intent on being Anon then you probably have a pretty high degree of knowledge about how to use the Technology you have , so then you don't need to use this service.

***
I could envision the ID verification process being more and more common sense and Bio-tech based. i.e  - an easy to remember  secret password , a signature and maybe a optional Eye scan, as well as the normal Drivers lic or Passport. as is used in a normal bank.

****
as its all a service and opt in , users will have a completely reverse view of this technology , {before you start to say it} it will be the Technology serving the user , the Banks will be competitive and free market institutions.  this could essentially be happening now.

*****
Of course as these institutions will be free market - quickly the Banks with the most confidence in their security measures will introduce Crypto - insurance for their customers. basically FDIC up to certain amounts.

It was tried before with bitcoin. Lots of people got scammed when the bank went belly up.

Can you link me - that's hard to see how that is possible ?

I'm talking about a physical location , customers walk in the door , think attractive smiling young customer service girls.

not a shady -:

Hey send us your Bitcamucallits and we'll "look after them" Guaranteed !" send all coins to NigerianpriceBitcoinsaving.xgd.exe.com

admittedly perhaps its too soon for now , because , of course most government are still in resistance mode to Cryptocurrency but as that changes , governments of the future looking nations will bring in basic regulations and minimum standards for such institutions , perhaps a very basic license system, hostile government of course will  try to use theses things to drive the bank out of business , but as that shift occurs, so does many other things. 

If you want a "bank" then use a "bank" (rather than try to create some sort of pseudo-bank).

It is not easy to become a "bank" (at least in most western countries) so you will have the *trust* of the bank itself (although even western banks have gone belly up before).

If you get a reputable bank to buy into the idea (of a BTC account) then you may have something - but if not then you are going to look like a MyBitcoin or even worse Bitcoin Savings and Trust (search for the whole pirate saga).

Brick-and-mortar location would be a change.

Here is what I was referring to. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100007836/bitcoin-pirate-scandal-sec-steps-in-amid-allegations-that-the-whole-thing-was-a-ponzi-scheme/

ok we are shifting around words here , but essentially i understand what you are leading to , a "Bank" has the trust that would be needed to "buy in" the existing customers.

i understand , and as things shift , it may go that way , very unlikely that it will happen in the "West" like that first.

but in other nations I could totally see it.

** what about Long Term Bitocin Management LLC ? : D

HA HA yeah ok , well put it this way I stopped reading after this :

"In November 2011, a user calling himself Pirateat40 launched a "Bitcoin Savings and Trust", which claimed to allow users to invest their Bitcoins at an interest rate of seven per cent a week – over 3,000 per cent a year."

of course - we all realize these things are a little different no?

i really love that name "Pirateat40" , of course had it been Doubloons stolen the whole affair would be on the up and up  : D



{at the SEC office}

{Phone rings}

[John  we'd had an incident! {panting down the phone}  there has been a number of Cryptocurrency stolen from an online "Bank" run by a man named Pirateat40]

[We believe most were Doubloons]

John - [ Doubloons ! Christ ! he gets away with it AGAIN , Steve you know we can't prosecute , he has a Pirate name !  God DAM SEC law. ! ]

{phone slams down}





**** edit

ha ha "Savings and Loans" ha ha ,"Pirateat40" well have you ever heard of a Darwin award ? , i'm sorry dude , but come on ha ha ha !

Actually I think you'll find that the Winklevoss twins are doing precisely that!

I'm thinking about opening a Surgery - out the front I'm going to put a huge Chainsaw with neon around it and blood dripping from it - under it the sign will read:

"Home Style Surgery"
"Guaranteed a Results!"
"We save you money because we don't have formal qualifications"


 

yeah - its possible - but if that is the intent , {and i'm not a conspiracy theorist on this subject} , i think they are going to fail miserably , if the Government gets in on trying to recycle money though Paper to naked short Bitcoin, what will happen is that the market will demand to see the blockchain - simple , this is not Gold this is not Silver.

and after that , the EFT experiment will be deleted from history and life will go on.

I think they have large stake in the currency and want to expose it too frightened and spooked equity and commodity investors , and it will likely be a huge boon .

not just for Bitcoin , but possibly for all cryptocurrency - as when people where having conspiracies about Facebook I was cheering those idiots along.  

Ha ha the Government agencies had a great idea to wrap up and control all the information, all they did was expose TV generation humans to Net information , i'm guessing they either didn't understand the implications or didn't care.

but it was pretty big trade off - they gained nothing ,and turned a bunch of TV generation humans into conspiracy theorists . ,

which i for one support RT has a motto "Question more" i like it because i support all conspiracy theorists , theorems are questions , questions means brain activity the opposite to what a TV aims to do.

= so what was Facebook? a way to try to capture TV generation information, i love Facebook ! as much as i love this EFT, and for similar reasons .

Guess most the cost to set up something like that would be in security . 

In some ways more than a fiat bank in that respect , but after which there would be constant profit. For the service .

What about a credit union?

+1

What about storage facility's , they have onsite 24hour guards , these are not " banks" , but I do understand the financial trust aspect.

How does that differ in practice?

Maybe the trust of a bitcoin bank lies in price stability too and for now i can't imagine people loaning bitcoins from a bank. So why keep them at a bank when you can keep them on a usb stick or 5 to make sure you still got them if 1 fails.   

the "Bank" does nothing more than the Ancient principal of a "Bank" , it protects the digital savings, but in a more advanced manner -


there is no loaning , well not in this conception , but in fact i couldn't see why there couldn't be.. , but there certainly couldn't be a Fractional reserve system, so a Loan would be at the "Banks" own risk.

then again - the market would determine that risk as well.


this is where a supportive government would come into play, as they would regulate policy that Loans could not be derived from savings as such and should be "At the risk" of the "Bank" itself, - if the Opt in user wishes to gain "interest" then they can "Opt in" to an access system which makes available say a % of the saving for loan at risk, and gain a modest amount of interest, this would likely offset some or all of the fees, but the main pricipal of the "Bank" would be to simply protect the Savings, there would be no "Big" "Money" like the Fractional Reserve system that exists now, where by new Legal Tender is "Loaned" into preexistence. - Debts will not be Assets, only the interest derived.    


price stability has nothing to do with it , that's the market , also who said this would just be Bitcoin ?

It would be any digital currency the market will want to store there , well at least that's what the free market would decide.

basically if :

1. it has Value .
2. people have enough quantity to care about that value.

they will

3. happily pay a small fee for the piece of mind to keep them there, and access them safely for spending transactions.


**
don't get me wrong this is the Future , not the present you are seeing - this is after the "West" has learned the lesson that it can not control the world and all its information , not least with "financial Assets" - the energy that is being drained is less and less every day as users Opt out of the system, this causes a "short" in the system if you like and it doesn't seem to take long before the whole entity stops conducting .

the price has to do everything. how can you loan 10 btc at 100$ and pay back 10 btc at 60$? it makes no sense :) why keep it at a bank? when you can keep it on a stick in a vault or something? what if something goes wrong and it happens like Greece? the goverment just says no to withdrawals? in the future this may happen but stiil there are even more issues that will arrise like anonimity. i must keep them at a bank where people know who i am so Bitcoin takes one straight in the face cause it suppose to support anonimity. corect me if i am wrong.

Look i know there is a lot of text there , but you should really read some of it if you are going to comment on the subject ?

I'm sorry for my writing manner , i wouldn't say I'm the most literate person in the world .

lets be clear:

• The Banks primary purpose is not lending. sorry for calling it a "Bank" but that is the correct Latin derived English word
• "on a Stick somewhere in a vault" - is too hard for 80% of the population, if you need to understand this point , do this , go to your Mother and explain the principals of Cryptocurrency now tell her to back up the wallet and Encrypt it.  
• "something goes wrong and it happens like Greece" - seriously? these are free market institutions im talking about , i'm not explaining why Greece or Cyprus happened , but it can't happen with a Block Chain ok, just understand that .
  

ok hopefully I've corrected you .

yes you are basically "wrong" not wrong but misunderstood the writing.

**
anonymity is not the reality ok don't trust me , trust what the NSA say themselves , of course , come on we've all known this for years right? , you type here , you have no anonymity who cares , what? its Stasi land next , so what ? people stop crying about anonymity.

the world is heading and has been for about 15 20 years towards open source intelligence system  , when you know you are being monitored the monitoring becomes useless yes , you see? you understand?

because of course now , you might start a conversation with your NSA and Local country analyst, {i bet a lot of this has been happening of late} {i've been talking to my guys/guys girls for a long time} Hi : D

you might say stupid meaningless things that create noise and disrupt the process, you might joke and win them over with common sense  , because they KNOW its stupid.

you have to understand that trying to be Anon  to a Government that you are scared of is silly , stop being scared , they are silly, the worst they can do it kill you in a violent way. - that happened already. it didn't work then and its not going to in the future .

all it will do is accelerate the downward spiral of the society - because the globe has information relevant competitive force, everything you see happening is this downward spiral.

but just like a "Black" hole its a positive as well.

"ok maybe i`m not understanding your writing(i`m not nativ english) but how do you want to keep them. in wallet.dat with acces to a computer an external drive or? ..."


Device one

The "Vault" is device one , this device is inside the Bank , you have to have verification to Get in there etc.

The happy smiling assistants help you with this process - you bring in your  "On a stick somewhere" and you run it though the basic Mal-ware checks that have to occur - all of which are off line.

you access your  "Vault" with assistance if needed - but this "Vault" a Custom open source OS and very secure with in built protection , and is permanently offline .

you deposit Valuable savings here and know they are safe , whitout the worry of losing or having to back up Hard-drives or encrypt USB disks to lose -



ok



Device Two

While you are there you take the opportunity to recharge your "Wallet" another device essentially running a Custom OS with password encryption etc.  just like your key card. - you have a pin its that simple .

this is the thing you walk around with , and make purchases with - if cryptocurrency is fairly valuable in the future you will not need to keep a lot of currency on this device , enough for you to be comfortable with , but enough say for a 1 month or 2 months of spending etc.


. seeing it yet?   

The problem is *trust*.

Simple as that - any anonymous site that wants me to *trust* them is a *scam* as far as I am concerned.

Maybe I don't *like* my bank (due to fees or other annoyances) but at least I don't worry that they would just *run* with my savings.

Any Bitcoin bank that wants to be anonymous should be trusted about as much as you would trust a complete stranger.

well that thing with the custom OS and permanently offline seems legit.in this case things start to make a lil bit of sense. but it`s still a maybe-maybe situation.

pliznau         -           made a connection.

CIYAM Open  -           signal offline.




CIYAM Open:

can you please check your connection ?

When did anyone say that the bank would be anonymous.  I think a lot of people here have trust issues in general. 

That`s right. many will have trust issues especially at the beggining. think about that if the first bank would open tommorow. how many will actualy deposit and how many will think that this is another trick to steal their stuff?

Okay - connection fixed - so it's not anonymous but it's not *actually* a bank.

The first thing you are going to need to do is become a licensed money transmitter everywhere that matters (in the USA that is basically in every state). According to what has been published about this it will cost more than a million dollars to do this (and a lot of time).

You'll also need to employ people for doing all sorts of AML and KYC stuff (as Mt. Gox does) and finally you'll probably need to invest millions in advertising to attract people to your "pseudo bank" when the "real bank" right next door decides to let people have BTC accounts (which will cost them next to nothing to implement).

+1

With regard the being a "bank" he is talking about what an original bank was , a place to hold gold or other valuable items .

As to the point of having to be registered as a " money transfer agent "    not necessarily true.

If the clients are accessing thier own vault  and recharging thier own wallet .

And the next part becomes political and depends on the authorities of the day as kind of was addressed .

In which case you would have to charge "fees" for usage (as presumably this bank would not loan) - I think it would still be rather hard to run this business next to a bank that will offer you a BTC account with no fees.

And if you're thinking banks would never do this then please come and visit China where you will see that most banks let you buy precious metals to help protect your savings against inflation.

Also if you are expecting that people will only go into this "bank" once per month to make a withdrawal then you'd have to charge some pretty hefty fees to even pay the rent little own the salaries for the wonderful people you want to have to serve them.

This point you make is relevant , but alas when a "real" bank lets people open Cryptocurrency accounts , fiat will be long gone , its literally an admission of failure of the infrastructure of the fiat system .

Of course why not , literally anyone that can gain trust in the services should be able to start a crypto storage facility .

But it's not as simple as keeping money on a ledger like fiat.  So In this regard I think the open source developers here and in the community have a significant head start .

The fees were mentioned a couple's times 3 or 4 in the thread.

 The China aspect you mention is political , I really dont have time to enter into geopolitical discussion right at this time .

But later certainly.

Except to say , our monetary system is very unbalanced and will probably correct it self.

When that happens lots of things may change.

I don't see that at all - you can buy gold an silver at major banks in China - is that not already an admission of failure in the infrastructure of the fiat system?

You can also have accounts in different currencies and you can link into stock trading via internet banking so it really isn't such a stretch to be able to have a BTC account (my prediction is that unless there is some sort of all out *attack* on Bitcoin we will see banks letting you set up BTC accounts within the next ten years).

CIYAM  there is wisdom in these misunderstood statements , yes the answer is yes .

the point is basically the system has failed ,  who can pinpoint the actual moment ?  That is an unanswerable question in the same way I can say where does the event horizon stop and  this reality begin.

But I can tell you in this reality event , the financial world ended in 08 , as I said we are living in " opportunity land" .

So yes it failed , the Chinese probably understand that , good for them , and good on them for being ahead of the curve.

But  here Is secret of the world for you ,  this monetary failure will lead to the general loss of confidence of debt based systems .

You see years ago I famously said  " you can't un-known knowledge"  .

In the same way you can't destroy information.