Bitcoin Forum

Running these polls the past few days I've found a few shocking things.

A) It's way too easy to launch a coin and way cheaper than I first thought.

B) People here are set on default to automatically hate any new dev or new coin.

At first I thought you were all very sick people but Now I see most of you are just sick and skeptical of scammers and pumpers looking to dump another CrapCoin on everyone.  

And I gotta respect that.  But here's another shocking thing.  You guys are computer literate and many of you can program - you can literally write your own ticket, create the best coin for YOU, with yourselves in mind - first and foremost.  Yet nobody has done that.  Nobody cares about everyone else: the focus is always on ME.

Now, there's nothing wrong about caring about yourself but why not do something for everyone else too, especially when it's easy and affordable to do.

So I wanna launch a coin aimed at benefitting the miners the most.  After-all, miners make or break all alt coins so where's a coin designed for them, to benefit them the most, especially the many at the low end of the hash-rate spectrum?

I have a feature in mind, a concept I learned in Business School that would make mining a lot more exciting, and more rewarding, but most of all would benefit the smaller guy more than the guy with a $50,000 rig, on a % basis.

This would be a coin for the alt community and you guys would have to adopt it and make it your own.  I'll pay for it and launch it and in return I'd take 1%.  No premine or instamine.

And I'll give at least a 3 day heads up, that's a true fair launch.  That way anyone against it has plenty of time to mobilize enough people to kill this thing.  I'll even make it SHA256d so it can be merge mined and those with ASICS can kill it even faster if it's another crapcoin.  There should be a 3 day rule: sneak launches are a big sign of another crapcoin scared of a killer attack.

So what do you guys think?   Any good names you guys want for such a coin:  a coin by the people for the people?  

What about special features:  what are some features you'd really wanna see?


Shout it out!

Edit:

I can't keep giving hints about this new feature I call:  the VGB Protocol.

Be assured it will be fair to all miners but more rewarding to the smaller miner which is most people.  And it will make mining more fun and exciting for everyone, even the big miners.

LoL, looks like Nuggets  is so far the more popular name.  It's your coin, pick any name you want most.

First of all not sure why you want to reward less security however with the nature of anonymous peers a single "large" miners can appear as hundreds or thousands of "small" peers.

i.e. if I have 1 TH/s of hashing power I can easily make that look like 1x 1000 GH/s worker, 10x 100 GH/s workers, 100x 10 GH/s workers, 1000x 1 GH/s workers, etc.

I wouldn't target the large miners.  In fact the large miners would get the same rewards but on a % basis, the feature I have in mind would be much more rewarding for the smaller guy.

So the security wouldn't change and large miners would want to mine this coin as well because it should be more fun and rewarding to mine than any other coin.

But I haven't talked to any programmers so I don't know what it would take or how much it would cost to implement such a feature.

Call it Thatchercoin! Hehehehe.... then see the hatred from all the socialists out there just pour in. Thatcher is accused of destroying a 'thriving' mining industry in the UK. (Subsidized to the tune of 70% but apparently that's thriving).

Tehe. Personally I'd call it Coal (COL) or Black Diamond (BDi), as I think that's pretty much the concept we're going after here. Something that doesn't necessarily look fantastic initially, but yields its own rewards and has its own unique selling point.

DeathAndTaxes has a point though.... it's going to be quite hard to pin down the different workers...

Lol, I didn't know that.

This feature wouldn't hurt the big miners, it would simply be a bit more rewarding on a % basis to the smaller guy.

I'm not exactly sure how you're going to manage the % basis to the smaller guy unless there's a slight transfer of wealth going on...or perhaps IP addresses aren't mining as much as they could be. I don't see how you're going to overcome the barrier of them using virtual machines to masquerade as smaller machines to get the better %. I think D&T has the same concern.

Now as for features: Support linux! (It's hard to find an alt-coin that has rpms for Linux, especially mining clients...at least, I'm finding it tricky).

There is a simple way and it also makes mining more fun for everyone, to reward the smaller miner, on a % basis, more so than the larger miners.  But they would all get the same benefits. 

I haven't talked to any programmers so I don't know what it would take to code this feature but in my mind it should be fairly simple.  I did take an intro to C++ class back in college.  Ha.

What do yo guys think:  SHA256d for merged mining or scrypt?

scrypt is apparently better and quicker. However my personal vendetta would be which ever is most secure and I have a hard time understanding why bitcoin uses sha256d instead of sha512... but my opinion here is someone tainted by newbism.

How is scrypt quicker?  I tried mining LTC AND it was the lamest thing. 

And don't you want the option to merge mine with Bitcoin?   Think about a year from now when you may buy an ASIC, it would be nice to merge mine Bitcoin and this coin.

I think SHAW256 is the best for these reasons, its future proof.

And I think most coins today avoid SHAW256 to avoid killer 51% attacks by ASICS.  I don't care about that, if this coin gets killed it deserves the brutal death it gets.

I'm by no means advocating Scrypt as I don't really understand one or the other. However merge mining isn't the top of my priorities. If needs must I'll simply purchase the parts for a new system and have it run independently as a server more than likely.

Considering you're actually putting money into this, I'm kinda worried for your bank manager that you don't care if it gets killed. Hehe. I'm sure the miners will put the bounties together to upgrade and develop so that the coin doesn't get squashed under the foot of the mighty asic.

Yesterday I thought a new coin cost $10,000 to launch that's why I wanted 25% and was a bit worried about a coin getting killed.

Dude, launching a coin is way cheaper than that.  If it dies it deserves it and I'll be out a bit of money.  No big deal in my mind. 

I'd be interested in hearing more about this... going to call it the MarxistCoin?

Rewarding smaller investors is actually the basis of capitalism... otherwise you just end up with Microsoft and nothing else, because microsoft own everything. Then again, decentralized currencies are the bane of Marxist ideology...so that'd be a bad idea.

Sounds like this is pooling all the blocks and giving people a percentage... that is going to make people destroy the coin by their own greed.  Sounds like Marxism and why it will never work, to me...

Well, lets wait and hear his solution if he does in fact have one.

From what I gathered, every time a block is mined, the dev takes a 1% cut and the rest of us just mine blocks. I suspect that if a user only manages to mine one block, then they're given a bit of a bonus (linked to the difficulty no doubt) to encourage them to keep at it, while larger miners aren't given any help but no penalties either allowing them to mine as much as possible. The other solution would be to increase the difficulty for larger miners while giving smaller units the lower difficulty blocks...dunno though >.<;

No, but that's a good guess.

I don't want to give anymore hints cause I want to me the first to launch this feature since I thought of it.

I wish there was a programmer I trusted to run this by them.  The Hazard guy ain't responding.

But I'm not socialist bro, and I'm launching this particular coin mainly cause I tried mining and it sucked cause I didn't have a huge rig.  Why should the majority suffer when they have the power to write their own ticket?

And I promise the big rigs will be happy too and this feature will encourage more mining not less.  It's fair to everyone but more-so to the smaller miner, the smaller the bigger the benefit.

But I promise it's not a feature any miner, big or small, will dislike.

In fact, after mining with this feature all other mining will appear, archaic, dead, boring and unfair if you're small.

I sincerely expect most if not all new coins from now on to employ this "VGB Protocol" feature.

I can't say anymore - too many idea thieves lurk about.  

Oh man... you are asking indirectly why people hate crappy coins and then you want to create another one.

Here is why people hate them:
- most of them add 0 new value (thats 99% of coins) - people think forking litecoin plus changing constants in code makes new coin with added value - that is false of course
- most of people creating new coin think (as you do), that main purpose of coin is mining - that is false too of course; main purpose (if we don't take experimenting with cryptography as main purpose) is safe transaction of value from one user to another user - serious coins are not made to make any subject rich (neither devs, miners or scammers)
- many of devs care more about coin name than about it's "guts"
- lot of devs don't understand the fundamentals of coins

I mean no offense versus you, but please don't step to same river again - lot of people are already drowning in this river.
You think you have something revolutionary - but as DeathAndTaxes said - that thought is flawed - you can't know how many real users do you have. There were attemps to make benefit for small miners like in YAC (at least i think that was the coin name - coin minable by cpu only), but every coin has two sides - so it opened doors for botnets.

Like i said i mean no offense. But please don't make another crappy coin and instead of it use your time and power for making service for any already stable coin like BTC, LTC, FTC - and we will all profit ;)

Sounds cool.  I'll definitely follow it's release.  Good luck :)

Ondrata, how am I launching a crappy coin when you don't even know what it is.

Nice attitude.

And isn't this the best way to not launch crappy coins?

A) Ask the audience what they like?

B) Give minimum 3 day heads up and SHA256d to have the coin killed if it is trash?

Who has done this for this community?

I killed my CatholicCoin and OrphanCoin idea due to too many people not liking it even though plenty did and it might have survived a sneak launch or I could have forced another CrapCoin down your throats with a scrypt coin that can't be killed.

If everyone did what I'm doing, no CrapCoins would make it to exchanges.

Can you people not even recognize honesty when you see it? Maybe you all deserve to be buried under thousands of worthless coins.  In the next 24 months there's gonna be over 3,000 alt coins on the market.

My honest and open approach prevents that.  

Thanks.

Any preferences for a name?  How's SantaCoin?

What about making it future proof by using SHAW256 instead of scrypt.

Shaw means it may get killed easier but I don't care about that - merge mining is a huge benefit and soon even the small guy will own an ASIC.

Therefore, I think SHAW256 is the best way to go as far as you, the miners, are concerned.  If this coin was for me I'd so Scrypt to prevent any chance of anyone killing it with a 51% attack.

Coins that the rest of us can't even take part in because we don't have $50,000 rigs.... why should we bother with coins that are there for the rich and powerful only?

If you can't get enough people on board your coin is doomed to fail from the start. The purpose of money is not "the safe transaction of value" although that is one of its aims. It is in fact the "Efficient transfer of value" which is a different thing all together. What's efficient about only being able to trade with three other people because they're the only ones willing to take part in xCoin market because its so difficult to get in to or to get coin in order to trade? The value might oscillate a lot with unsafe transfer of values (such as Bitcoin at the moment as it's still a new currency) but at least there are a lot more people to trade with because more people can get a hold of a few coins in order to pass around or trade with.  

It's for miners, why not something to go with that?

RockCoin (ROK)
StoneCoin (STN)
AxeCoin (AXE)
PickCoin (PIK)

FrackingCoin >.> <.<; (Maybe I need to lay off the ideas on how to kill the coin before it starts XD)

SHAWty got low?

Thanks for the correction.  I know nothing about programming and I'm new to alt coins.

I guarantee even the biggest miners will not think this is a commie coin.

Isn't the democratic process putting ideas up for a populous vote before implementation?  Why is inviting coin killers any different.

I think these attackers serve an important service.  They're the white blood cells in this crypto body - killing off all unwanted foreign entrants.  More power to the hackers - kill all CrapCoins.

... you're officially weird.

But I like weird so where do I sign up? For me this will be a coin to watch :P

Amin brother.

And I'm not weird, this idea is weird cause I officially don't give a damn about the status quo, and that's a rare stance to see which is why this sounds weird.  I always functioned in the "I don't give a damn about popular opinion" world and in general I suffered for it.

But in this case the popular thing is the good, right thing.  

This is a rare and wonderful thing.  

How about MineLifeCoin?  This coin is for the masses, the miners(MINE) with the scope of improving the mining capacity and thus the life (hence: MineLifeCoin) of those that need it most.

Long and complicated!

The 2 guys building coins for people, are they both on vacation?  I PM'd them both yesterday and nothing.

What, they don't want my money?  I won't to run this by a programmer but don't know who to trust.

Ok.

Let's brainstorm this mofo. The name should ideally come from here not me.

If your wanting a coin to be for small miners, the best bet is to go Scrypt.  ASIC miners own the BTC mining.  You're not going to be catering to small miner with SHA256d.  The small miners have all but moved over to Scrypt.

Yeah I don't really think Santa Coin has the right ring.  But since it's a coin for the miners, I suggest the name of something valuable like Titanium Coin, Platinum Coin, Lithium Coin, Plutonium Coin, ect.  Black Diamond sounds pretty cool as well.

As odd as it seems, from following your posts for the last week or so, you have my interest to at the very least watch to see what your going to attempt to try with your coins.  The 1% is alot better as well.  But I will say if your going to try to implement something totally new, like a script that gives more to the smaller miners, that will end up costing you a bit of money, as that will take more programming know-how.  Who knows I will probably even join onboard if it's a scrypt based coin.  If it's SHA-256d, count me out.

I'm not entirely sure why everyone is fixated on having 'coin' on the end but never mind.

The best names are short, sweet and to the point. Nike, Dollar, Google. These still look pretty much modern and up to date, Microsoft, Deutschemark, Adidas by comparison sound old and decrepit. Simple and vague unites while precise and long divides. (I'm not good at being simple).

I mean, I'm still going with BlackDiamond even though I appreciate it's long and has all the same problems, I just happen to think it sounds cooler and conjures up better images of something undiscovered yet really valuable to people.

We need a vote on Scrypt or SHA....

Lol, you're right, I think it comes from the 2 major currencies being called Coins, so it just feels proper to call the currency a coin.  Lol, my main Alt after LTC is Bottlecaps, which has no mention of coin involved, and it feels natural, so I agree maybe dropping the coin name will help make it feel more original then following the norm and adding Coin to the end.

Maybe the name could simply be "Dynamite" or maybe "Nuggets"

I like Nuggets! =D They remind me of chicken...mmmm chicken.

Ok, but this coin is meant to help level the playing field.  And I tried mining LTC with a $1,700 dual 7850 GPU and I was barely covering electricity.

So clearly, any new guy without tons of money or the small miner who can't get that brake is nose screwed.

So ignoring fear, money or greed, is the best way SHA256d?

I mean why wouldn't you wanna merge mine?

Why wouldn't you want a future proof coin which is ASICS.

Next year ASIC 2.0 will come out and the little guy will own an ASIC.

To me SHA256 is the best way to go.  And relatively speaking, this coin would benefit the smaller miner so that's gonna help a lot.  And it's not like scrypt is an easy way to mine.  It's all a joke now unless you have minimum $5,000 just for starters, and let's face it, most don't.

Man, I like nuggets.  Kinda gets your attention even though it doesn't mean much.  Lots of McDonalds lovers in this world.  Ha!

Gonna go mine me some NUGs

Ahahhaa.  Man, that has a kind of likeable sound to it.  A people's kind of sound.  Like meat and potatoes as opposed to the caviar and lobster out there right now.

But seriously, where is Hazard and the other C4n10 guy?  No reply in 24 hours.  Bad service I tell you.

I really want to run these ideas by a programmer to see what's actually doable and how much extra it will cost me.

 :D

Patience, you must have young one.

In all seriousness they could either be busy or just not around for today, probably busy. If they are not back by tomorrow, you might need to seek out other means.

I would call it Gold-Pressed Latinum (GPL)

Ooh a trekkie. Lemme just break out my stock of Dilithium crystals to trade with XD

Ok -- I gotta tell you that this is enough to make me lose interest. --- Thanks for the interesting thread up to now.

~nh

Hm... I actually think you're overdoing it there. I'm no fan at all of republics and this 25% distributed to whatever cause is a bad idea. Basically its very open to abuse.

Ok, how do you suggest leveling the playing field a bit more without targeting people or specific miners such as large miners?

If you guys think its a bad idea, great, it's gone.  It makes no difference to me personally.

This was simply a strategic idea but if you guys think its lame or open for abuse then it's no big deal, it's gone.

I just wanted a way to level the playing field a bit more. Cause you can't code something which alienates any large portion of the network, like the big miner, that wouldn't work, but I thought this would.

But the feature I have in mind would have a leveling effect but since it won't specifically exclude big miners that effect would be limited.

You guys have to realize, once ASICS take off and the masses come in, the control you have now to launch a coin and have an active hand in its success will be gone.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity and soon the bankers will come in and the pro developers and millions of people with ASICS and the voice you have now will be completely drowned out in that ocean of noise.  Create the best coin to benefit the miners while you can and that's what this thread is for - figuring out how to get an edge that works long-term.

First of all, if you paid $1700 for 2 - 7850's then you got taken right there.  After that, to mine scrypt, you need to tweak the .bat files a bit so you can get the most out of your miners.  From your other posts here, I am doubting you had your batch file set up correctly.

A small miner is not going to have an ASIC sitting in their house.  They will be mining with GPU's.  SHA256 is a dead place for GPU's now.  And after the difficulty jump today for BTC, it's way worse.  Merge mining with obsolete equipment still = a dead loss for money made.  The reason Scrypt was put in Cryptocurrency in the first place was to keep the game for the small miners alive.  

And I doubt you will figure out a way to make it easy for the little guys.  Whatever you try to do, there will be 1000 ways to get around it.  Don't worry about spending the entire programming cost on trying to make it a coin for small miners.  Your only going to make the big miners that much richer.

But it's your coin.  Do what your ideas tell you to do.


Edit:  Just read the rest of the posts.  Keep it simple.  And get to know your audiences ect before you start getting other ideas in your head.  If a coin (even Bitcoin) takes off, the masses aren't going to buy miners, and start learning how to properly set up batch files to get the most out of their equipment.  They are going to purchase the currency, and run with it.  If you can make 50% a year or whatever the rate will be, why would you bother coming down to the miners (ie geek level).  The difficulty level is going to be so high the best bet would always be to buy it straight out.  Not sure of your aware of this, but as time goes on, the mining rewards actually drop, so having 2 billion people buying $3000 machines to fight for 1 bitcoin isn't going to happen.

Also if you want a coin that is "For the miners", then you have what a large % of the coins out there do.  Give 100% to the miners.  And no pre-mine.   By taking a % for yourself, and then thinking about voting in 4 anonymous people to hand out the other 24% is the exact opposite of making the coin for the miners.

BTW.  Everything here is open source.  Meaning everything you think of can be copied by anyone else (IE how you will get your coin for virtually nothing).  You can share all of your ideas.  Don't think your getting anywhere hiding them, or hanging on to them for your coin.  Just share all your ideas and we will let you know the good from the bad.

ASICS will be available to the small guy by next year for the price of a GPU while mining 20 times faster for 1/10th the energy cost.  All these scrypt coins will need a hard fork.

A 5GH BFL Miner eating 50 watts, is $300, what I paid for 1 GPU which was doing about 300MH while eating 250 watts.  And this is ASICS 1.0, 2.0 ASICS coming out next year will eat half as much while mining much faster and will cost even less.

GPU's are gonna be history.  Numerous good ASIC builders are coming online in mass volume already.  If the reason for Scrypt is to run from ASICS that's not the best way since ASICS are the way to go.  BTW, I paid $1700 for the whole new computer with an 8 core CPU and other high end hardware.

But if most people here prefer scrypt then so be it.  I'm sure a hard fork can switch it to SHA256 next year if I'm right.

And as for the edge, small miners would have an edge with this VGB feature.  And there's no way around it but since this feature is fully inclusive, the edge or benefits to the small miner, although real, are only on a % basis which means relative.  That's better than what any other coin out there offers right now but it's still not quite enough to really level things out.

And excluding certain miners would simply not be a good idea.  Any solution would have to be a win-win for everyone.

ASIC's aren't the best way to go since it basically centralizes the power in the hands of the big players, and flushes the little guys out.  This actually makes your coin less secure.  Even if eventually 5 Ghash/s ASIC's are available to miners for $300 in the future, you can bet that there will be 1 Thash/s miners available at that time for the big guys.

And just so you know.  An sha256 ASIC miner can't mine a scrypt based coin.  It can't do anything else either.  It either hashes sha256, or it does nothing.

i came up with something similar back on June 10th of this year:

 Implementing a tier based bonus system
« on: June 10, 2013, 07:06:08 pm »

    Quote
    Modify

Hello,
1)How difficult would it be to implement into either existing or creating a new software mining package with a tier based reward bonus system mainly focused on the middle or lower end miner hash tiers.(example:0-300 k hashes) Keep in mind that this would be bonus and would not be taking away from rewards that higher end tiers get now. 2)Also would this same piece of software be able to be used for a solo miner?
post your thoughts and suggestions and even feedback if you think this would be a negative action for mining in general.

Thanks,
Goldbit89

Man, that was a cool idea.

Only problem there is that it's too easy for anyone to make their huge network look like 10 or 1,000 small ones and then the big guy would steal from the little guy.

My feature can't be abused or circumvented but it would not be as leveling as your plan would have been since your plan would have actively excluded the big miners which would obviously have had bigger benefits but also some big problems.  

yes that was one of the same comments that was left on my original post too.Im not trying to take from the large bigger miners, i just something to try and encourage more then smaller miners which i believe is the majority, not all of us can afford expansion and new computer hardware. And with any computer or computer part--the actual day it comes out, its already outdated.But i would love a coin or a sytem that would equally award "ALL" miners regardless of hardware  or software.

A coin designed for miners is the equivalent of cryptocurrency masturbation.

And this is wrong, because...?

That's the beauty of my protocol - it rewards all miners equally while on a (% "relative" basis) the smaller the miner the greater the reward, once again, relatively speaking.

I realize that sounds impossible but it's not.  This is not going to enrich the small guy to the detriment of the big guy but it will provide a nice surprise mining factor which would help out and give hope to the small guy and if all coins were to implement this then it would in fact be a really big deal on a cumulative basis.

My post count just dropped from 702 to 594.  Somebody is messing with my account.

Looks like hackers aren't waiting for the 51%.

LOL.

You can get a decent Gigabyte 7850 for $189. 

You should be able to push approx.  800 kHash from the 2 mining a scrypt coin using commands like this:


setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
cgminer.exe --scrypt -o poolIP:port -u Username -p password --no-submit-stale --gpu-engine 1150,1150 --gpu-memclock 1250,1250 --thread-concurrency 10048,10048 --intensity 17,17 --worksize 256,256 -g 1 -g 1



Using the Burnside LTC calculator:

800 KHash/s with current difficulty, assuming 400W for your Video cards and a LTC price of $2.75, you should make $2.53 a day, with $1.34 of that going for electricity assuming $0.14/kw/h

Put that vs BTC right now

I will give you 800 MHash/s from the 2 cards.  Assuming 400W and a BTC price of $82.36 (Current Price)  You should make $1.27 a day mining BTC, with $1.34 going for electricity which will give you a grand total of losing 8 cents a day mining. 

Doesn't take an economist to see which one people mining with GPU's will turn towards.

LOL at the economist knock.

But this is exactly why I'm saying merge mining is the way to go.

Run that calculation again with me merge mining Bitcoin, PPcoin, ixCoin and Devcoin.

I've read of some pools merge mining 5 coins not 4.  And I've read that you get the same Bitcoins while at the same time your rig will also mine the other merge mined coins.

All of a sudden with a SHA256 coin you can make much more while with scrypt, I've never seen merge mining.  Maybe I've missed it or maybe people focus too much on merge mining with Bitcoin, but this merge mining will get bigger and bigger.

Tell me why I can't be merge mining 10 or 20 coins by next year?  This is the biggest reason I put money in ASICS - not so much Bitcoin as much as the potential of merge mining later on especially if they make one mergeCoin to mine them all which I've read they're working on and I bet it's a SHA256 coin.

...since I wasn't allowed to edit my earlier message due to a ddos... ( I think)...

Swiping out 25% is a huge blow. If you take out more than 15% the Miners are going to strike and its Scargill all over again. If you take out less than 5% it's defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. Now instead of voting, it should be done automatically to everyone. So everyone gets a share. Take the split for instance like this. 1%-10%-89%. 1% goes to the developers. 10% gets distributed to all miners and 89% goes back to the original minerThis would feel like a reward to everyone because the chunk is reasonably small than it wouldn't feel like anything to bigger miners yet would feel like a lot to smaller miners especially those that can't mine a lot.

Hey, that's a good idea.  So a flat reward system where all miners get like a weekly kickback automatically.  10% split evenly accross all miners.  Or maybe at random times during every hour to prevent people from jumping in, mining 5 minutes, and getting that reward.

That would work, same idea as mine but no middle men.  I like it and I think it's fair as big miners are not cut out which is what I wanted - win -win for everyone. 

Now again, the question is how hard is it to code this feature into a new coin, how much work and how much will it cost?  Cause it doesn't sound all that simple cause you have to make the reward at random times to keep people from abusing the reward but it has to be often enough so people who mined say all hour long then stopped get their reward.  So it has to be a preset time but at the same time, random enough to keep the crooks out.

See, this is what I was looking for and I think we found it.  A good way to give the small guy an edge without hurting the big miners.

This combined with the VGB should really give a relative uplift to the smaller miners. It's all % wise, like you said, relative to what you're used to making and that's better than anything else out there where you're flatlining all day long.

The rewards aren't even linear, just one huge flatline.  Dead mining, no fun whatsoever.

I'm so excited to lauch this coin now, where are those 2 programmers to take my money?

Man, bad service. 

But we still need a decent name.  Or are we gong with nuggets?  Lol, that name cracks me up but for some reason I like it.

Not weekly, monthly. The reason I say this is because weekly is too short and doesn't really indicate any long term support for the coin from the miners behalf. A month would be better because then people are likely to stick around (at least in my opinion). The idea here is longterm longevity not short term profit. I know that it seems like a long time but the kick back would be far more worth it after a month. Of course this depends flat out on people continuing to mine and even just getting more involved.

This doesn't have to be random at all. If people mine for a certain period of time, then they'd be eligible for the reward. I can think of one or two obstacles however.

I think we're sticking with Nuggets =D

I agree monthly is better but when it comes to coding this thing that complicates things.  Like how does the block chain keep track of everyone and what about people who mined 3 weeks and some 2 weeks and some are not online when the payout goes out.  At which point do you eliminate people?

That's why I was thinking like hourly or every 120 minute cause then the coding is easy, basically anyone connected to the node gets a fixed amount of the 10%. And if you set it at random times during that 2 hour timeframe then nobody knows when it's coming so they'll stay mining the whole time.

If the monthly reward can be programmed pretty easily then I would like that better cause its a mover bigger payout.

I see your point. There's also the problem of months not being equal, so it would have to be fixed at every 30 days rather than a month.

With that said you have a point, unless there's some kind of registration for each miner, where they effectively submit ledgers which are verified against the block chain...then if its verified the blockchain pays out. Of course the mining application could probably record its own information and then submit it so a registration itself isn't exactly needed more the acknowledgment of a miner existing.

Yeah, a ledger is complicated.  But at random times, every say 2 hours, BAM, you're mining then you're connected and here's your 10%.  But then there's had to be a function which determines the % cut cause the number will change constantly and I don't know if that can be coded, to recognize the number of miners and then do the math.  I need to talk to a real programmer soon.

Good night, bro.  Thanks for all your help.

Y'know if this is going to be all democratic like. Maybe it would be an idea to start up a forum or such like so that topics or proposals can be debated and or voted upon.

How do you prevent miners from creating multiple "identities" so they can grab a larger share of the kickback?

It wouldn't really help them, they'd actually be better off putting their efforts into mining more. If everyone just creates small identities, then they're going to get small rewards and those those that wish to mine will (should) pull ahead anyway. It's a bit defeatist to just create multiple identities because it isn't as though this money is spawned out of nowhere.

That said...I'm also interested in how this would be managed if at all.

I don't understand. The sum of the hashing power of each of their identities would equal the hashing power of one big identity, PLUS they'd get a larger portion of the kickback.

They'd effectively be creating more work for themselves and cutting the over all benefit by reducing the maximum amount of coins. A 10 x 1MB hash won't be able to compete with a 10MB hash, simply because the 10MB is much faster... it's like trying to compare a ferrari to 5 ford transit vans. So if you reduce the maximum range then everyone simply gets a smaller chunk. The key here is, everyone gets a chunk it doesn't matter the size and this means that everyone can take part so long as they have contributed to the mining process.

Mathematically (theoretically at least from my back-of-envelope sums) those who are mining at full pelt 'should' feel better off by mining as much as they can, than they would by splitting into more parts and consuming more energy in order to do so. The bigger the range the better the reward for everyone, so it's in everyone's interest to mine as hard as they can and not just the largest trying to price everyone out by getting the biggest machine because it defeats the entire point of why they're doing it in the first place.

I don't doubt that there will be some who split their computers down into different identities, this will slow down their speed of processing and enable smaller miners to have a better chance as well especially later on. So it's kind of self defeating.

Now...there is another aspect that needs to be answered because mining will eventually become too difficult (I'm hoping a long way in the future) and that's how the transactions are handled/crunched through and the reward mechanism tied into that.

Edit.

After re-reading your statement. If they set up 2 computers of both 10MB hash rates...then yes, they would technically gain a larger portion. However my calculation is shared between the number of users, so the more users the more the decrease in the kickback. With that said, if they're doing more mining why shouldn't they be rewarded? They'd find more reward  in the 89% mining reward rather than the 10% kickback.

Yeah but since the reward is flat across the board, by setting up 2 computers or splitting your network in 10 so it looks like 10 computers they'd get 10 10% rewards or basically double their mining output.

It would only equal out if everyone did this but they won't so this is more ripe for abuse and difficult to pay out fairly than the democratic board of directors idea I had. 

Not sure of this idea can be implemented without causing corruption, confusion and angry miners that didn't get paid.  Who would handle so many complaints cause for 1% of nearly nothing there's no way I could do all that and still help develop the coin.

Are we still with nuggets?

Guys, I think I found a reputable programmer.  He's gonna cost more than C4n10 but I think he can actually program.

Last chance to give me some much wanted features.

What about PoS vs PoW or both?  Remember this will be Scrypt since that what you guys wanted.  So which way is better or should I employ both.

Any other features, besides the VGB protocol I want to employ - hopefully most of you will like that.  I think even the big miners will like it.

And finally the Name:  if I don't hear back ASAP I'm going with Nuggets (NUG).  Lol, sounds like food and weed, the munches coin.  Great, now we're marginalized. Lol.

Lol, going with my name huh.  Lol, I better get 2% of all coins mined  LMAO.  I developed the name of the coin.  Oh well, just don't disappoint me.

Since your not a programmer, and this coin really isn't going to have much security in forms of stopping a 51% attack, since I am pretty sure you wouldn't know about it until 10 days after when you were informed on here that your coin was destroyed.  So here are a bunch of features and removal of features that should help you out, since it sounds like a go.

BTW are you going with Shakezula?  If so your in good hands. 

Make sure the coin is a PoW/PoS coin.  Ask him to maybe use the bottlecaps code, but don't forget you need to make some changes.  And possibly have the interest from PoS stakes around 2% a year.  Get rid of the Developer 1% payout.  That will hurt you.  What you do instead.  While he is programming your coin, ask him to create you a pool as well.  This does 2 things.  Makes it easy to get people to jump onboard and mine for you.  Nothing worse then waiting for a pool to be created, and pools can get away with a 2% fee for their services.  So you are still bringing in revenue while not doing anything, but at least the public will accept it.  Next create a website, with it's own forum.  Very easy to do, you can even find ready made ones for free, and you pay a month fee of about $5-10 to get rid of the ads.  Create a Development Donation fund.  This will help you raise the additional funds for any things you may want to pay a programmer to add for your coin later.  And make a Nugget Fun Fund (Where people can donate for things like giveaways/raffles or for rewards for getting things developed.)  Last but not least, build a store.  They are fairly easy to purchase ready made ones for you.  Sell a few things like Steam codes, or gift card codes that you can pick up at a store near you (iTunes card ect).  Maybe even some small electronics or computer parts.  This will boost the value of your coin/economy a lot more then the 99%.  After that you can wait and see if more stores ect pick up your coins (Talk to the sextoy store, they always seem to be ready to accept new currency), and if cryptsy will pick you up.

After that, your not done.  But now you have to start e-mailing/speaking to businesses in hopes that a few will accept your currency.  (My best bet idea is to see if any Free to play games will pick your coin up as a means to buy stuff ingame.  They usually accept 15-20 different ways of payment.  What's one more? 

Lol, I just noticed you asked if we wanted the coin to be a straight PoS coin.  Ummm NO.  lol.  Here I will explain it to you.

You will want a coin that has Proof of Work, which I explained to you the other day.  The security of the coin comes from hopefully not allowing an attacker to get 51% of the network power (or more).  Actually it can be down with less as well, but it's a lot more difficult to pull it off.  

PoS works on top of that.  And looks at the number of coin days a person has in their wallet, when it is taking the vote on which Blockchain is the correct one.  For instance say I have 100 nuggets sitting in my wallet, and they have sat there for 50 days.  I have 5000 coin days as part of my voting share.  If some guy wants to attack the coin, not only do they need to take over the 51% of the network power, they also need to take over the coin days.  So if they were attacking that day, and had no nuggets in their account.  They would need to buy 5050 Nuggets to have 51% of the Coindays as well, just to override my share.  This works better once there are hundreds of thousands of nuggets floating around in the network.  Say the total Nugget days for your network was 5 million.  The attacker would need to override the network hashrate as well as own/buy over 5 million nuggets  (or 1 million and let them sit for 5 days , ect).  Attacking PoS coins after they are semi established is economic suicide, as when an attacker kills your coin with just PoW, they have all their mining equipemt no matter what happens.  If they kill your coin with a PoS part to it, well they just flushed their 5 million coins down the drain along side everyone elses.  That's why it's a lot more secure to have both.

An added benefit.  Since PoS is mined as well, the coins that are sitting in your wallet not being used are actually gaining "interest".  But usually the PoS is only around 1% - 1.5% interest, so that shouldn't cause people to not want to spend any coins.  Just adds a small bonus for those that are sitting on their coindays securing the network.

And the nugget I named the coin after was a mining term like a gold nugget.  Not sure why everyone automatically related it to Chicken nuggets, or now drugs  lol. 

Yes, I'm going with sahakziula although he's the most expensive.

I asked him about poS vs PoW cause I wanted to do both and he said since I'm doing scrypt PoS has Pow built in.

Looks like Nuggets it is. 

I don't think we can do the 10% idea csuse there no way to code for it or prevent abuse.

If you guys want a 10% distribution back to you the miners speak up now and I'll out the coin in escrow and you guys decode later on how to distribute.  I'll make sure there's oversight of some kind so I don't get accused of stealing them.

It's up to you guys but let me know soon, very soon.  I'm happy with the 1% I'm gonna get.  No premine or instamine.

Holla back of you guys want a different name, special features (like is PPcoin a good feature and is it easy to implement on a Scrypt coin).

I'm waiting to hear back on the VGB protocol from Shakezula, I hope he likes it and can code it for a decent price.  C4n10 adds features for only .02 BTC per feature.  Man, what a deal, too bad he's been asleep for 3 days now and Hazard too. 

I say keep it simple.  Don't do the 10% distribution.  It will more then likely be tampered with to only help the big guys/shady people.  The small miner will be left with even less then if you hadn't touched anything at all.

Man, but it was such a great idea.

Maybe I can out it in a wallet where everyone can check it hasn't been spent or messed with until we figure out a way to help the small miners with it.

After all, what miner wouldn't mine this coin for 89%?  Many coins don't give nearly that much to miners and they do very well.  Some only give miners 10% or 20% which is nothing yet they're on exchanges.

So what about that ?  10% of mined coins in an escrow account or a wallet which can be watched by anyone until we come up with a viable plan.

And trust me, the VGB protocol, if Shakezula, can do it will way more than make up for that 10%.  There's nothing like it out there there and this protocol makes mining much more rewarding especially for the small miner while also helping financially everyone mining it but on a % basis the small miner would once again benefit the most in a % basis.

Can't wait to mine me some NUGs!

Lol, that name is growing on me the more I hear it.

So you guys are ok then with 10% going into a special wallet which can be verified that not one coin is being spent and it will distributed to the MINERS at a later date when we can figure out the best way to avoid unfairness and abuse.

Cause the idea is just too good to give up and I don't want to do any hard forks.  And lets face it - miners getting 89% of all coins mined with the other 10% going right back to them in some form or other is a sweet deal. 

And wait until I unveil the VBG protocol, I think miners will love this new feature.  It gets rid of the boring flatline mining you get now and it gets rid of the near ZERO rewards of high difficulty coins which give you almost nothing back - coins like Bitcoin, Litecoin but especially ixCoin where you can mine all day and barely see anything and there isn't even a hope or prayer that you'll look at your laptop or rig and get some huge surprise.

We can wrote out own tickets.  I used to work as a Mortgage a underwriter for the biggest banks in the world and this is basically underwriting a financial instrument - and the best part is, until the banks and the government get involved there are no rules, man, you underwrote the coin anyway which best fits your target audience.

And right now, for me and this particular coin, the target audience is you the miners, the lifeblood of all Alt Coins - we small miners deserve a coin which holds some sort of benefit skewed even slightly in our favor, relatively speaking but without excluding or punishing the successful, big miners.  It's win-win all the way around with VBG. 

I'm hoping Shakezula can make it happen - so far I've heard only good things about him and his programming skills.  A bit spendy but if he can do it I'll find a way to pay him right.

Huh? Unless you're proposing something radically different than every Bitcoin-style coin this is simply not true. Mining is very parallelizable. Ten 1MH/s miners and one 10MH/s miners are equivalent.

Again, Vlad, you are missing the point that is upsetting people about the 10% thing. That is centralizing the currency when the entire point of cryptos is to be decentralized. We cannot possibly make this any clearer to you from all the points that people have given you.

The good thing about this, though, is that even talking about all of this stuff is getting attention to your project, but please, for the sake of you not wasting your money to pay someone, as well as your time getting everything together, do not take the 1% for you to keep, or the 10% for whatever.

Again, you are trying to centralize something that should have no controlling authority. I'm trying to be as nice as I possibly can because I really do like you and your ideas, but please don't ruin this thing before it even starts. We are all warning you that those 2 things (or even 1 if you implement either one) is going to be your downfall. It's not about us thinking you will steal the coins or not do as you say, it's about centralizing it, thus eliminating the entire point of why we are all here in the first place

It's not your place to decide where 10% of the entire currency goes. Leave it up to the miners and put up a donation address. People are a lot more giving and willing to support a good dev team than you are giving them credit for

If you really want your 1%, just make a pool and charge up to 2%

Fine, I'll do a donation address.  Or since its not for me but the miners then I'll just eliminate the 10%.

But the 1%, I don't get the hostility,  its such low pay.  All devs make money off their coins and it's a lot more than 1%.  Even pools make 2-3%.  I don't see the harm in getting 1% of coins mined when miners get 99%.  I seriously fail to understand this.  How can you peopl expect innovation when you become hostile at the mere sight or 1% profit?  I don't get it.

Besides, no programmers are responding so this looks like a dead, never-has-been coin. Truly makes me sad as lots of miners would have loved this coin.  And I have the money to pay the programmers so I don't get it.   Truly sad.

But thanks for your constructive criticism, brother.

And 2 programmers now know my VGB protocol.  I hope they have integrity otherwise I'm sure a coin using my innovation will pop up in less than 1 week.  I'm getting so depressed from this whole horrible experience.  I trusted 2 seemingly good programmers and now they've dissapeared.   Truly sad.

It's not a decentralized cryptocurrency when it privileges someone like that. Could you imagine if the Linux kernel had a backdoor in it just for the kernel author to use, and he tried to justify it as a privilege for him doing the work for free? Why would anyone use that system?

If you're looking to get directly paid for work, then releasing open source decentralized P2P software is not the correct place to look for it. Operate a mining pool or some other service if you want to take a cut.

I'm going to bed.

I tried so hard to make an innovative coin for the people but it looks like instead I got my best ideas ripped off.  Naive I was and now others will make money off my hard work and my ideas.  I'm honestly feeling so depressed.  Thanks to everyone and good night.

I don't know how to do mining pools and I see lots of devs getting paid directly using various schemes.  I wanted to avoid schemes I wanted to be upfront and honest.   Now I see why all devs use clever schemes to get paid.  Now I don't blame them.

Thanks for the advice anyway.  Good night.

I thought that was a big no-no but the way everyone is acting at a measly 1% payout - a premine is starting to look like the best option.  But I may do 5% instead of 10% with 1% going to me and 4% to bounties, rewards, etc.  thanks, wolf.

Now I just need one honest and gutsy programmer who isn't gonna dissapeared after I tell him my VGB idea.  I'm honestly worried they're off right now doing their own coin using my VGB protocol. I think I got robbed.  I thought I found a guy with real honest integrity but he won't even respond to PM's.   Sad.  Really sad.

Good nights everyone.

Hopefully I'll hear back from muddafudda and Shakezula when I wake up cause I'm seriously worried right now at the lack of response once I gave them my VGB protocol details.  Maybe they're just busy but it still worries me since I don't know them at all.  I'm feeling extremely depressed by all the negativity, bashing and now 2 good programmers vanished with the only edge I had.  Sob!

Goodnight and God bless everyone.  I'm hopeless right now so it's all in God's hands now.

Lol, I keep telling you.  Everything here is copyable.  It's not if they are running away with your secret, that a different coin will pop in a week after yours.  In reality, if you idea is that good, 50 coins will pop the very next day with your VGB protocol.  Even if the programmers don't give it to anyone.  But don't worry.  If they are truly working on trying how to get your protocol working, they are going to be to busy to be reading forums.  And I am sure both of them have day jobs and go to sleep as well.

Looks like you were right.  He responded. He's working in my coin. He asked for half payment so I paid him in full.

Now I have to decide if 5% premine is a good idea for money for things like bounties. People flipped at 10% so hopefully 5% is ok.

Exactly. If the idea is good, someone is going to take your source code and remove the part that gives you 1% or whatever premine you have and release it as his own coin. Now why would I mine your coin and give you 1% instead of the copy where I get 100% of the reward?

Provided that it the 10% + 1% are hard-coded then it remains decentralized.

Secondly. In regards to 10x1MB not being equivalent to 1x10MB.... the reason for this is not because of the protocol itself, but because of the extra energy required to set up these identities. It may not initially seem like much difference but the difference is still there. My analogy may have been a bit off in terms of what I wanted to portray, but you are taking a cut to your maximum processing power when you start dividing up your system. As Vlad has pointed out, 89% is a hefty chunk.

If there is abuse it simply won't matter anyway. The idea isn't equality or that you are rewarded for the exact amount of work that you put in, but that you took part in the first place and attempted to mine. It is true that some will be able to boost their income, but they are not going to be able to get all of that 10%. Lots and lots of others will get a share of that too. The point is, that everyone is rewarded for their contributions not just the big miners who get a huge stonking reward anyway especially later on in the difficulty.

As for Nuggets, I'm wholeheartedly behind it.

Thef, that can happen to 100% of the other coins out there, to some it has happened, yet they have still thrived. What matters is if a coin brings something new to the table, a new way of thinking about something. It won't matter if someone releases a coin that gives 100% of the benefit to the miners, as Vlad pointed out, there are many coins which only give 30% to the miners yet have still got onto the small exchanges without issue. It's up to each miner whether they want to mine it or not. Should it be brought out, I'd be happy to mine it and I hope that a lot of other small miners will also be encouraged.

Debatable definition of decentralized.

I'm assuming by "energy required to set up these identities" you're referring to some proof-of-work system (and not a manually verify your government ID to Vlad system). How is it imaginably possible that managing two identities' proof-of-works on a computer would be harder than managing one identity on a half as capable computer? (Or multiple identity proof-of-works over a botnet, with one identity per bot.) The idea is pure fantasy.

So now you're backtracking on the idea that the VGB protocol is secure, and admitting it's just fantasy. If you remove the VGB fantasy from the picture, what you have is a "currency for the miners" which gives only 89% of the currency to the miners.

What sort of screwed clonecoin gives only 30% of the block rewards to the miners? And how does comparing against that make this one any better? (Suggested advertising line: "Nazi gold was obtained from killing jews; at least MagicCoin doesn't do that! Please use MagicCoin, it's not that bad!")

Right, cause the other guy is gonna do it all for free right.  Cause he's a priest.

Can you people see that all devs have schemes to make money which you don't know about?

At least with me you know it's only 1%.  What about coins that only give you 50%, 20% or a paltry 10%?  Why are you guys mining those coins.

Ate you guys being a bit greedy and selfish to say:  thanks for a great way for the little guy to make more coin and have more fun mining it but I'm not happy with 99%, I want your 1% too.

No wonder nobody ever bothered to make a coin for the miners before, you guys are more greedy than the 1%.  I regret even thinking I could help out the little guy.

I was so naive and this makes me so sad.

Let me clarify.


Like I've done all along I listened to the miners.  I dropped the 25% to 10% to 5% and wnen people are not happy with pre mining for bounties I now just called the programmer and told him to kill the 5% so the only thing getting premixed is my 1%.

So you guys get 99% and I get 1%.  I didn't want a premine cause I know it looks bad but the programmer which I picked the one with the best rep and the most expensive said this was the easiest way as the other way to get 1% while mining would require way more. Programming, cost way more and he wanted me to find another programmer. 

So I had no choice but to go with the 1% premine.

I promise to put the 1% in a wallet that can be checked by anyone to see its not being sold.  I'm all about long term.  I trusted you guys with you choices which I disagreed with now I'm asking just one favor, just one:  trust me for just 1 week.  See for yourselves this is not a game, I'm being honest and I will break myself to get this coin off the ground.

I designed this coin for the miner and everything about it besides the 1% was all you guys.  I put the power in your hands so please just show me the same respect until I let you down just once.

This coin can be the greatest, lets not bicker over nothing - lets do this together and watch the value skyrocket.  Be generous with me the way I was kind, understanding and generous with you.  I am not the normal dev, pleas don't drive me away - I see things like no other Dev, don't pushe away with constant bickering. 

This is just the beginning, if nuggets works I promise bigger and better things which most devs obviously can't even imagine let alone put into practice.

Please give me just 1/10th the trust I have given you for just 1 week.

WE NEED A LOGO ASAP.

Go to the logo thread I started 2 hours ago and submit a logo. The programmer I hired needs a logo for the client.  Lets work together and get a logo up, something e retinue will love.

I want something classic but it can be funny.  When the masses come in the coin face, the logo will make a huge difference.  Thanks guys!