Bitcoin Forum

I believe that the price increase is the result of the bankers and their controlling cartel deciding that they cannot stop Bitcoin, but they can make it unusable. They can do this by soaking up all the Bitcoin they can find, and not selling any of it. This has resulted in a dramatic price increase, and a rush by the unsophisticated to join the party, and make their fortune. In the meantime the cartel members are making huge profits on paper. At some point they will stop buying, and sell a few blocks of Bitcoin. This will trigger a rush to cash in profits, or to stop losses for people who bought Bitcoin when they couldn't afford it. The resulting crash will damage the reputation of Bitcoin amongst the average users, but leave a vast store of wealth for the financially aware. After a suitable interval, the cabal can re-enter the market and repeat the process. The newer futures trading platform will allow them to lock in profits from the rise, and suck money away from those who have bought contracts expecting the price to rise exponentially. The price will continue to rise until they have managed to open enough put options to trigger the drop.

Remember guys - Jet Cash warned you about the price movements first. :)

the only positive point in all this for the institutions is to sell the progress of bitcoin over a year, people will expect the same in 2018 and may fall from high

All's well with the OP's speculation, but since bitcoin quantity is limited, offer and demand come into play. They can't buy a lot, as they don't have what to buy. Also they can only buy with real money. Selling and crashing makes them loose money.

Time and time again i've heard this confusion: pump something and then destroy it to make money. But you first have to recoup your investment and that's not as simple as it sounds, with people holding bitcoin since it was under 1000 and presumably manipulating whales buying at 10000+

As whales can open the options to sell coins? It is also not profitable to roll rates. Now the exchange rate of bitcoin is high and therefore a very large demand. All they will sell will buy small users. In such circumstances, they can lose control of a large number of coins. It is not in their interests.

You do have a point there and with the constant price increase, it made some traders question also that the higher the increase more likely it'll bounce back to around $10k or so. The increase is scary and maybe a bad news for bitcoin but good news for those who invested in bitcoin.

i don't know, this seems more like a conspiracy theory that i would need a tin-foil-hat to read.

and i can't wrap my head around it either. for example why would someone buy bitcoin to cause its price to rise and make so many people so much rich just to sell and lose money and not even be able to damage that system!
even if it is true, and some group is behind it and they do dump, the worst case is that we will have some downtime and some drop. not the end of the world! and that group would gain nothing.

not to mention that worse case scenario that if we assume all you said here is true, is that bitcoin dies and other altcoins replace it. so that group (being bankers, government or what have you) would gain absolutely nothing but loses a huge amount of money!!!

I like the above words.
Like me, I hold some BTC for years and do not even trade, just hold and watch BTC price waves.
... and I do not gonna sell soon. There are thousands like me, holding for years untouched.
So, supply is getting more and more limited.
If sharks and institutions wants to pump Bitcoin, they need a lot of fiat money to do so.
... and then what? cause panic? they gonna lose the majority used to pump.

Interesting times, interesting case, mean Bitcoin.
Since BTC is very volatile, fiat sharks gonna love futures and options based on BTC.
Pure speculation attracting "Wolfs from the Wall Street"  :D  ;D

So essentially you think that volatility will damage the reputation of bitcoin haha. I don't think so. We don't know why the crazy rise of the past few days has happened. It may very well be from bankers buying up a ton in anticipation of the futures market. Though it's likely a mix of those who are long and those who are short, as they both understand that Bitcoin hitting Wall St next year means a huge rise. And besides after such a price rise I'm pretty sure everyone knows a serious correction is in order. I'd expect a correction back to $12k in the next few days. That won't damage Bitcoin, that just means that people will be buying it up in bulk for discounted prices and it however low it drops it won't take long for the price to come back up to where it was before the drop, which will  bring even more people into the game.

The price rise is attributed to what's called a "Short Squeeze".

Due to the limited liquidity of BTC, the price rises and falls dramatically.

The Short Squeeze occurs when someone sells short at say $11k.  As the price rises to 12k - 13k , etc.  They encounter either a margin call or they cannot bear to watch the rise in their loss anymore.
Subsequently they are forced to cover, (which is buying) and then in turn participates in the rise in BTC price.

Same thing happens with stocks where liquidity is limited.

At some point no one will be daring enough to short due to their extensive losses, unless it is coordinated among large players.

But as a 'currency', I think Bitcoin has ruined that prospect.
Another more streamlined alternative will have to take the baton for that.

Bitcoin will remain a 'trading vehicle' and will likely reach $100k before the end of 2018.
Suitable for extreme high thrill gamblers.

How many times have we seen this conspiracy theory already?

First there were the Banks, after that the Chinese, the Governments, the Fed,  we get a spike in the price, there is an evil organisation who is hoarding bitcoin.
So???
Let them hoard.
Limited supply, increase in price. I don't see a problem. They sell and then demand and offer kicks in and we see the real value.

And nobody is forcing you to sell when they do. On the contrary you can buy the dip and make more money.
The sheep will always panic when there is a red candle on the chart.
They will have to drive the price back to 250 to scare real hodlers.

Mostly, I agree. No one can actually control bitcoin. Even the government can't, no enough amount or revenue to affect the bitcoin market price as a general not unless all the government in the world decided to do this.
Another thing is that it's nonsense that they would manipulate it by dumping and buying because they will be be loosing their place when others starts to eat up during the dump. 

Right every pump is going to add more people, more public money. So even if they have been buying up in order to dump it, and even if they plan to try to do that repeatedly, every time they do people are going to be pouncing on the dump. So even if they can continually crash it, it will be crashing upwards each time, getting higher and higher with every time they do this. Basically all this would do is create even more volatility in the market, but the upward rise would continue as they would have to keep buying in higher and higher as demand continues to surge and supply won't ever surge.

Conspiracy theory in everything ...
Until recently, whales were not interested in such a small cryptology.
Now, with an explosive increase in the cost of bitcoin, they are just beginning to be interested in this market. You can not withdraw large amounts of money immediately from one market, which would lead to another. Yes, they do not want to withdraw, they create indirect instruments (futures).

Yea, there are lots of big guns dumping massive amounts into Bitcoin now... The dump will be just as big and that is going to

leave some people with some financial problems IF they panic and sell at a loss. This is a good time to take some profits and

to put it to the side. {You are going to need that disposable fiat to buy, when the price drop} ... The big guns have money to

burn and they are using this to pump the Bitcoin price.... the fallout can be bad, IF people use debt to fund their Bitcoin

purchases now.  ::)

Another obituary post? :)

I don't know, even if it's that conspiracy theory, the short squeeze manage to destroy bitcoin as a currency as nobody want to use something so volatile, but as a trading asset it doesn't matter. Even if they dump it and make the market crash, the demand will kick in for cheap bitcoin and we will rise again, even if it take longer.

Thats an interesting theory, and TBH quite plausible. All the "big" banks, etc. who call for Bitcoin to be banned might be trying this method instead.

I dont know guys. I dont think the banking industry even cares about bitcoin. Recently, my work put me in contact with the Head of Czech National Bank and naturaly I have asked about bitcoin. He did know what bitcoin is, but his knowledge was limited. He was of the opinion that its irrelevant and that it has no future in public finance. I know that Czech Republic is not the most economicaly strong country, but I think it might be similar else where.

The Banks want Cryptos dead, its direct competition to them. Why would you want to pay a 10$ for an international wire payment, when you could send some ___coin instead?

There re some interesting views, and also I beleive there are some misconceptions.

This is not an obituary thread. I believe that Bitcoin has become a store of value, and has enormous potential in the long term. Right now, I think you should either buy for aholding of at least two years, or you buy because you are a day trader and you undrrstand the risks and skills involved in this. What alarms me are the people who are talking about selling their houses to buy Bitcoin, or to use their credit cards. If the price fails to increase, then they may be forced to sell their cons in an attempt to reduce their debts.

Bankers can manipulate the market for Bitcoin in the same way that they manipulate the gold, silver, stocks and bond markets, and derivatives make this a simple matter. Take the situation of shorting the market - this means selling Bitcoin for delivery in the future. There are two type of short - covered and uncovered. Uncovered means selling coins that you don't own in the hope that the price will drop, and if it goes up, you can face unlimited losses with a volatile product like Bitcoin. This is where the bear squeeze comes in. You have to go into the market and buy Bitcoin, but nobody wants to sell, so you are forced to offer increasing amounts to persuade somebody to sell you their coins as the price rockets up. Now we can consider covered shorts, and the role of bankers. You decide you want to crash Bitcoin to create instability. You print yourself a billion or so dollars, you can do this easily under the fractional reserve rules. You then start buying all the Bitcoin you can find. As the price continues to rocket up, you start to accumulate some massive profits. You then decide to crash the market. So you start to sell put options ( sales for the future), and you get paid for those. You've got the Bitcoin to cover these so you don't care what happens to the price. At worst you have to sell your coins and take the profit, plus the option fee, and the striking price will have been higher than the market price at the time. You've kept back a few coins, and now you sell those onto the market, and stop buying. This will cause a price drop, and if you have timed it correctly, it will trigger some stop loss selling, and the price tanks. A lot of people are going to get burned in this, and that will put them off Bitcoin, and also their friends. Now you exercise your options, and people have to find the money to buy your overpriced coins. Well you are a banker, so you can lend them the money of course, or maybe you take their house away from them. They can't afford to keep thse coins, so they have to sell them, and you can start to buy them with all the money you have made. The price starts to shoot up again, and of course there will be many who dive in as well as the bankers who are sucking more coins out of the market to increase future volatility.

Bitcoin and some of the other crypto-currencies pose an enormous threat to the control of the population. It is outside the control of the banks, and it doesn't include debt creation. Debt is slavery, and the last thing that governments want is to free their subjects from slavery.

Of course banks really cares, a lot of users are really wanting to invest in bitcoin rather than investing in bank which gives you just a bit profit. It casuses a big impact to them the money circulation that must be for them is now in bitcoin so they are really manupilating it.

This seems very unlikely to me.

1) If any gov't or entity succeeded in owning enough BTC that they controlled it it would kill the value of bitcoin and its appeal would be lost.  The financial industry would go into this knowing they'd be losing hundreds of millions of dollars to try to kill BTC.  Perhaps that's better than having BTC become a realized threat to their industry.  But the issue with that is...

2) There are plenty of other altcoins ready to step up to the plate if BTC becomes unusable.  The financial industry would have to go through this same process over and over again every time a cryptocurrency hit $15k or whatever threshold they deem threatening. 

actually more important its blockchain than its price
according to me

You do have a point there and with the steady cost increment, it made a few dealers question additionally that the higher the expansion more probable it'll bob back to around $11k or thereabouts. The expansion is frightening and perhaps an awful news for bitcoin yet uplifting news for the individuals who put resources into bitcoin

I have to agree with the premise of the OP. What's the ONE thing people haven't been able to do with bitcoins so far?

Shorting the market.

Why would big institutional players push their buddies on the CME to create a futures market for them? Think long and hard about that question.

Where's the BTC market MOST likely to go from here after weeks of relentless rallying?

I think there will be a massive dump right after the big boys are all set in their short futures positions, after all, they're the ones who have been buying bitcoins ever since Jamie Dimon sank the market for them earlier this year. His 'off-hand remark' was carefully timed and coordinated, believe me.

This type of manipulation exists in all markets, always have, always will.

You do have a point there and with the steady cost increment, it made a few dealers question additionally that the higher the expansion more probable it'll bob back to around $11k or thereabouts. The expansion is frightening and perhaps an awful news for bitcoin yet uplifting news for the individuals who put resources into bitcoin

I do not know what triggers bitcoin prices, but right now, the world is talking about it. this very high price makes anyone interested in bitcoin. well, this is something nice for some people, but for some people this can also be something bad.

The other thing that you may not have noticed is that an option contract is not tied to specific Bitcoins. If I purchase a traded option to buy 5 Bitcoin next June, the option writer doesn't have to specify blockchain identifiers for those 5 coins. Next June he can deliver with any old bunch of Bitcoins. This moves us away from the "physical" Bitcoins into the realm of virtual Bitcoins. People have enough trouble understanding virtual assets, how are they going to get on with the concept of a virtual holding of a virtual asset? This could leave the way open for the creation of fractional reserve Bitcoins.

But how often do you even make international transfer? You need to pay for day to day things and you dont use bitcoin for that. You also need to take loans you also dont use bitcoin for that. You need some cash which bitcoin is still unable to replace. I am doing Ph. D. in financial law and I focus on bitcoin, but I totally understand that the banks do not care about it. Dont forget that the blockchain technology is available to everyone. Banks can create and they already did their own settlement network based on bitcoin technology.

I'm surprised to see a PhD student mking comments like that. I do a lot of international transactions - at least one a day, as I deal in virtual assets. I don't need  a loan, and I would encourage everybody to avoid loans. Debt is slavery, so don't become a slave. Banks are extremely concerned about the crypto currency revolution. as it removes the need for banks if carried to the ultimate. Will it get there? Probably not, but it does introduce a major financial instrument that is outside their control, and they hate that.

Blockchains have been around since at least the 1960s. The Bitcoin revolution was to combine a blockchain with a PoW block generation method, and recording the chain on multiple copies of the ledger stored by a large interlinked peer group. Banks will never create a system like that as they cannot control it.

This would be a totally high increase in bitcoin and many people are really happy knowing that.But to some investors in altcoin of course they will really feel so bad hoping that bitcoin will have a dump one of these days.

On a trader's point of view, as long as they are making profit, any movement from the market that benefits them would be totally okay. The price rise seems to be another preparation for what's coming by 18th of December when bitcoin futures at CME goes live. Imagine what would happen once these financial magnates start participating and trading against bitcoin. Everything would go completely nuts.

I don't know but maybe the players and even the normal ones won't let it happen as even a price fall like this one can still recover and perhaps be more profitable for them. And its seems that you are only speculating as you don't even have a factual evidence supporting your claim. Also when you look at Bitcoin and its price movement you will know that every time Bitcoin's price fall it will soon recover and may be in to break a new all time high as this is the most common trend I am following even until now.

Recent price riseing of bitcoin is really bad for us.Because we cannot buy more bitcoin now.it's totaly expensive.Invest on bitcoin is dificulte for investors now.

Yeah a good crazy situation are happening right now , people come to buy Bitcoin make money in short time and sell it immediately, they come back to do the same thing. And once the bad crazy market situation comes I'm pretty sure people can't afford to anticipate the unimaginable crash at some point.

I don't think it's a problem, If you want to invest in bitcoin, Invest as much as you can afford. There is no need to buy 1 bitcoin. you can buy 0.1, 0.01 or even 0.001 of it. What i important is the value of your investments in dollar.

I'm hearing that a lot of Bitcoin purchases are coming from South Korea. If that is true, then Bitcoin will become political in a major way.

I'm not very happy with this price. I'm not holding so much bitcoin. The altcoins that i hold are dumping because of bitcoin.

Even if you dont hold bitcoin you should still be happy because those altcoins you do hold would end up on converting it to Bitcoin for sure. We should be grateful on the amount and its normal for alts to dump since people or investors are focusing now on BTC which if the price increase rally is over and theres already profit taking scenario then for sure price will correct and people would go back into alts.Its just like that, if you are a long time bitcoiner you do already know the aspects and movements of bitcoins price.

I am reading a lot of comments that bankers want Bitcoin dead because it would be competing them out of a job.

Here's a different point of view: what if bankers don't care how they make money? If the most effective way to make money at this time is hoarding Bitcoin, they have no interest in shorting. But that will change once the number of available Bitcoin dries up. Then we'll see new tricks and attacks to force weak hands to sell.

Or maybe the above has already happened a few weeks ago...

Bankers make trillions all around the world, and they do it because of zero interest rates, fractional reserves, and the ability to just print money to lend to people to get them into debt based slavery. The amount of money in Bitcoin is peanuts on a global scale, but it has spawned the birth of other crypto-currencies, and this is a major threat to the banks. If people have a choice of uncontrolled methods of international payment, then it kills a major part of banking profits. If they can frighten people into believing that money has to be regulated and controlled by governments, then they can continue with their dominance.

You theory would hold water without one single think you ve missed. There re at least 10 alts just waiting to take over BTC place under the sun. So if bankers would even try something like that, it would be a very futile attempt.

I think you are missing the point. Bitcoin is the gold standard, it will survive, and no doubt the bankers will use it for their own exchanges, just as they do with gold. It's the public acceptance that is important. If the banks say - look we have got a blockchain system, and it's stable and safe, and they compare it with a Bitcoin system that is volatile, and is reported to be insecure. Which one of the two will the public choose. I believe that the biggest threat to Bitcoin isn't blocksize or stuff like that, it's exchanges that steal people money, or can't keep wallets safe.

We need just wait some time (10. and 18. december) when Fjuchers will be added for investors and traders. after we can see that bitcoin will increase slowly or faster.

Recently there has been a lot of news coverage regarding Bitcoin therefore your theory might be wrong. More people are aware of Bitcoin, that's one of the reasons the price went up.

They don't want it dead, you can't kill or stop the unstoppable mate, what they want is a shift, moving the ball to their playing field, what exactly

Happened to trigger the rise? Bitcoin futures and wall street happened, what will happen when they announce that Bitcoin is not fast, cheap enough

For their business model? Bitcoin cash comes in and saves the day by 8Mb blocks and fees less than a buck.

Just waiting on the correction over here like ::) We will see with this upcoming year the result of bitcoin

I agree with you on the avoidance of a loan, but I must disagree on the rest. You are obviously against banks. I am not a big fan either, but I think banks do have a place in the world. I dont think older people want to do something with bitcoin and similar. I dont understand why the banks should be extremely concerned? I am surprised that they, according to my findings, care so little, but what should be concerning to them? To the extend even as little country as the Czech Republic, could buy one third of bitcoin right away from its Euro holdings.

Also most of the banks have very little financial control whats so ever. There are a few banks like European Central Bank or other national banks that have any financial influence. Its so because financial means that the banks have a legislative power against others. Commercial banks do not have that, thats on legislature. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of bitcoin much more than the idea of new world crisis created by bankers. Then again did the bankers really created the 2008 crisi or the people who bought faulty products from them? The people who took so much debt they weren't able to repay it?

Also the loans, I absolutely agree with you that asking for a loan is risky and should be avoided, but sometimes its necessary - to start a business for example. To buy a house. Some people really need that to afford their own place. Banks are regulated and insured so the average one can use their product without fear. Bitcoin is now completly different. Who the hell uses it for payments? Its monetary function is absolutely useless now. Why would I pay if in 10 minutes I will have much more than I had?

Look the value of bitcoin is its acceptance and the fact that people know what it is. Problem is that if banks use the same technology and put in to their existing network, they will have much broader acceptace and more trust.

Maybe we're going off-topic here, but do you think cryptocurrencies are immune to events like that? In a way Bitcoin was an escape from fractional reserve banking, but this year has introduced several cryptocurrency lending startups. Lending means debt and interest, and interest means money creation. Are we retracing the mistakes we were trying to fix in the first place? 

Banks using private centralized blockchain technology to make payments through them much faster would indeed hurt Bitcoin a bit. But having to wait a week for a bank to process a payment isn't the only thing that makes Bitcoin better. Banks updating their businesses to use blockchain doesn't change the fact that your money is still "owned" by the bank/government. A public decentralized blockchain like bitcoin means YOU own your money. It means you can send money and pay for things directly with Bitcoin. Paying for things through the banking system still goes through the banking system even if they use blockchain. There is a lot more to Bitcoin than just a quicker way to send money. Banks can never offer all the other benefits of Bitcoin because those benefits have to do precisely with staying outside of the banking system.

Actually banks already made their own application for faster mode of payments like blockchain. But knowing the fact that they are limiting it to invest on bitcoin . Lets go bank to the topic. The buying of bitcoin really rockets because of low selling of bitcoin which I also think that many people are expecting for bitcoin to increase its price more by the end of the year.

Perhaps it is not good news for others that the price have risen. But this is an indication that the business of Bitcoin is becoming successful and effective for other people.

It makes very big threat to banks. Because it's not only one bitcoin, it's the whole idea that currency doesn't have to be centralized at all

You prediction was right, the future market is one of the reason for the crash, but the liquidation of the MtGox also fueled the correction in a big way.

Without a doubt the so called "hack" by the exchanges when ever there is an increase in price must the accounted for the coins deposited by the users, majority of the hacks are just fishy, we need to have a system to counter these type of loot from the service providers.

I think we have to assume there is some type of "big banker" control of crypto.
It can't possibly have gone unnoticed in the industry for all these years?
Some big fish could've easily swooped up a huge amount at some point.

It's a bit concerning, if we're all in a way playing into their hands..!

I think the recent price rise for Bitcoin is really bad news. the constant price increase.  This is going to increase higher for some traders. It's almost $ 10k now and it'll be bounce again soon. It may be frightening for Bitcoin and probably a bad news. But he will go to Pump very soon. Because history is his witness.

It seems to me that this is a step into the future, since it is informational and promising for our world. I believe that they will soon be introduced into everyday life.

Every time the price go down it came with huge price.

Bankers and rich people will not be able to stop the bitcoin!

The cryptocommunity is growing every day and investors believe in price growth. The more investors, the higher will be the price of bitcoin  8)

Maybe it is the recent price but I am waiting to be back again the real price for it.In this kind of job,we must have patient because if you don't have that,you are the one who quited quickly.it means!you are a quiter kind of a person.so! where is the word patient here and trust to a job you've been wanted for?

Many of people believe and waiting the rise of bitcoin same price last year 2017 the bitcoin will increase up to 20,000 usd.

increase or decrease in price is not bad news but it becomes very interesting news that always gives me the opportunity to determine transactions and this will make what is always waiting for every day will buy or sell it and this has become commonplace :)

The price fluctuations is normal in the cryptocurrency market. The value will go up and down constantly if you look at the charts over the years. This is not an exception and there is no need to tense about it. You will see that the value will go up in the upcoming time.

The rising price of bitcoin is so very interested that's good news to some people because for them that is the chance to gain more profit but to others that is bad, because perhaps because we cannot buy more bitcoin and it's totally expensive.

This is like moving the ball to their playground, exactly. Future Bitcoin and street wall happen, what happens when they announce that Bitcoin is not fast, cheap enough. Bitcoin cash comes in and saves the day by 8Mb blocks and costs less than a buck. We will see next year the result of bitcoin. But this is a sign that the Bitcoin business is becoming successful and effective for others.

We are in 2018 and still the same thing is really happening. I believe the trend of the rise and fall of bitcoin would always  be with us. There has been several  revolution in the world of crypto where several news and issues which is affecting the smooth progress of the various cryptocurrencies  especially bitcoin.

everything happened as the author wrote, and the price really began to plummet. it's a game of emotion and the big players hope for the greed of the smaller invseor