|
Title: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 07, 2017, 11:03:54 PM Hi all!
So I decided to spend some funds into creating a GPU mining rig. I am a newbie in mining, and I suck in whatever has to do with software, but I'm good with hardware. :P I am also a cheap f*ck I spent the last month looking for good deals on used cards with remaining warranty. So I got tons of different kind of parts. Right now I have: Graphics Cards 2 MSI TwinFrozr R9 290X 1 Asus reference design R9 290 1 Sapphire R9 390 8gb 1 ASUS RX560 4gb 1 Gigabyte RX460 4gb (I don't mind R9 cards as electricity cost is not a problem) Power Supplies 1 Corsair RM850i 1 Corsair RM750 1 Coolermaster G750M Main components Asrock H110 BTC+ PRO Intel G4400 Samsung 4GB DDR4 2133MHz Trancend 120GB SSD Rest 1 dual PSU adapter 1 ADD2PSU adapter 6x PCI Express Riser VER007S with SATA (no sata to molex cables, seller forgot to include them) 3x PCI Express Riser VER006C with PCIE 1 12 GPU Rig Frame Some electrical equipment to strengthen and stabilize my power line. (Old house) If you guys are wondering I can add how much each part cost me. Any thoughts on what I could have done better? I know 3 PSUs is not ideal, but bigger PSUs are so damn expensive. I have 3 more risers than GPUs and I got the H110 motherboard so I can have some expandability. Does anyone have any idea how to see my wattage consumption in real time? I am in Europe and Kill A Watt is not available here and we don't have any proper alternatives. Only some cheap Chinese knockoffs that I hear are really really bad. Almost dangerous. Maybe some input how to share my GPUs between my Power supplies? I am calculating that with card's TDP and staying between 80 and 90% of a PSU's total supply. My mining plan was to go for Ethereum. I quite like the currency in general. I got into some ICOs and I used ETH and I liked how fast the transactions were. But since the most trusted coin is still BTC will unlimited potential I was thinking of selling my hashpower to a service similar to the late nicehash and get BTC. I could always manually change between algos but I don't know if I can be bothered to make 10 different wallets and trade afterwards. As for the miner I'm gonna be in Windows 10 and I really liked the simplicity of Claymore. As for the placement of the rig, it's gonna be outside but under protection from Rain and Snow. Now that's winter that should keep the components nice and cool too. I was worried about humidity and condensation but I read that since the rig is working and producing heat, condensation will not be a problem. Photos coming up the next few days. I'm waiting for the last part the RAM to be delivered tomorrow. I hope it's tomorrow so I can have the Weekend to set it up. Thank you very much for reading. I will keep you updated. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: VyprBTC on December 07, 2017, 11:15:37 PM Sorry, Ghetto fail - a Ghetto rig would not have used an add2psu, it would have used a paperclip... like me :P
Good build congrats! For PSU's just don't cheap out there, I started with dual 850's and now I'm using all EVGA 1600 T2's. I'll probably start using server PSU's since they're like 1/3 the price of EVGA's but I don't know. Sometimes I think I just like spending money for no reason. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Undefined31415 on December 08, 2017, 01:29:09 AM Graphics Cards 2 MSI TwinFrozr R9 290X 1 Asus reference design R9 290 1 Sapphire R9 390 8gb 1 ASUS RX560 4gb 1 Gigabyte RX460 4gb (I don't mind R9 cards as electricity cost is not a problem) Power Supplies 1 Corsair RM850i 1 Corsair RM750 1 Coolermaster G750M Main components Asrock H110 BTC+ PRO Intel G4400 Samsung 4GB DDR4 2133MHz Trancend 120GB SSD Rest 1 dual PSU adapter 1 ADD2PSU adapter 6x PCI Express Riser VER007S with SATA (no sata to molex cables, seller forgot to include them) 3x PCI Express Riser VER006C with PCIE 1 12 GPU Rig Frame Some electrical equipment to strengthen and stabilize my power line. (Old house) If you guys are wondering I can add how much each part cost me. Any thoughts on what I could have done better? I know 3 PSUs is not ideal, but bigger PSUs are so damn expensive. I have 3 more risers than GPUs and I got the H110 motherboard so I can have some expandability. Does anyone have any idea how to see my wattage consumption in real time? I am in Europe and Kill A Watt is not available here and we don't have any proper alternatives. Only some cheap Chinese knockoffs that I hear are really really bad. Almost dangerous. Maybe some input how to share my GPUs between my Power supplies? I am calculating that with card's TDP and staying between 80 and 90% of a PSU's total supply. One other thing about going with older powerful cards like those R9-type cards is, for the hashrate you're getting, you're spending more on higher-wattage PSUs than you'd need to achieve similar hashrates with more efficient cards. (PSU costs are a factor to consider in addition to your electricity rate, when selecting inefficient cards.) Corsair is a generally good brand, but you have to keep an eye on which series of their PSUs you purchase. The lower-end ones and the mid-range ones usually have their guts made by Channel Well (CWT), which isn't too great, although they have gotten better than in the past, since they started working closely with Corsair. I would generally consider Cooler Master as a low-average performer as far as PSUs go. Usually they work with CWT or HEC as the OEM. PSUs manufactured by CWT or HEC are about as low as I'd go for a general desktop build, and I probably wouldn't buy a PSU from them for mining purposes. The especially reputable PSU OEMs are Seasonic, SuperFlower, and FSP. Upper-end units from Corsair, EVGA, XFX, and a number of other brands are handled by those OEMs. Realistically, you're *probably* going to be fine with the PSUs you chose. (Though, I wouldn't trust them for 24/7 operation at 80-90% of the rating.) However, especially when you're going to have 3 PSUs on a rig (in a nonredundant configuration that creates additional points of failure, if anything), you definitely want high-quality power supplies. If the primary PSU (powering the main motherboard connector and 12V CPU power) fails, the entire rig goes down. If one of the other two goes down, it might just take the connected graphics cards down, or it could crash the entire system (these GPUs were not meant to be hot-swappable, so something might throw an error). Additionally, higher-quality PSUs usually provide cleaner power, which is better for your cards, as far as longevity is concerned. As VyprBTC mentioned, the add2psu and dual PSU adapters are unnecessary. Regardless of how you power on the PSUs, distributing the load appropriately remains your responsibility. If there was a device that simplified that process, it might be worth it, but the add2psu and dual PSU adapter will do no such thing. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: wacko on December 08, 2017, 03:24:16 AM I am in Europe and Kill A Watt is not available here and we don't have any proper alternatives. Only some cheap Chinese knockoffs that I hear are really really bad. Almost dangerous. As far as I'm aware, those watt meter devices are pretty simple and there's plenty of them available in Europe, both chinese made and from local companies. You can easily find one in most large "home depot" stores.Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Agozyen on December 08, 2017, 03:56:37 AM "Any thoughts on what I could have done better? I know 3 PSUs is not ideal, but bigger PSUs are so damn expensive. I have 3 more risers than GPUs and I got the H110 motherboard so I can have some expandability."
Look into the HP Server PSUs.... https://www.parallelminer.com/product/breakout-board-adapter-compatible-with-hp-1200-watt-dps-1200fb/ https://www.parallelminer.com/product-category/power-supply-kit/ They might be what you are looking for. Or at least might make your life a bit easier. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: nerdralph on December 08, 2017, 04:10:49 AM I use Dell 750W and IBM 1440W server PSUs along with a basic 500W 80+ ATX PSU. I paid less money for the server PSUs than for the ATX PSUs.
It's easy to make a PSU interlock with a 5c optocoupler. http://nerdralph.blogspot.ca/2017/06/ Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 08, 2017, 11:22:03 AM One other thing about going with older powerful cards like those R9-type cards is, for the hashrate you're getting, you're spending more on higher-wattage PSUs than you'd need to achieve similar hashrates with more efficient cards. (PSU costs are a factor to consider in addition to your electricity rate, when selecting inefficient cards.) Corsair is a generally good brand, but you have to keep an eye on which series of their PSUs you purchase. The lower-end ones and the mid-range ones usually have their guts made by Channel Well (CWT), which isn't too great, although they have gotten better than in the past, since they started working closely with Corsair. I would generally consider Cooler Master as a low-average performer as far as PSUs go. Usually they work with CWT or HEC as the OEM. PSUs manufactured by CWT or HEC are about as low as I'd go for a general desktop build, and I probably wouldn't buy a PSU from them for mining purposes. The especially reputable PSU OEMs are Seasonic, SuperFlower, and FSP. Upper-end units from Corsair, EVGA, XFX, and a number of other brands are handled by those OEMs. Realistically, you're *probably* going to be fine with the PSUs you chose. (Though, I wouldn't trust them for 24/7 operation at 80-90% of the rating.) However, especially when you're going to have 3 PSUs on a rig (in a nonredundant configuration that creates additional points of failure, if anything), you definitely want high-quality power supplies. If the primary PSU (powering the main motherboard connector and 12V CPU power) fails, the entire rig goes down. If one of the other two goes down, it might just take the connected graphics cards down, or it could crash the entire system (these GPUs were not meant to be hot-swappable, so something might throw an error). Additionally, higher-quality PSUs usually provide cleaner power, which is better for your cards, as far as longevity is concerned. As VyprBTC mentioned, the add2psu and dual PSU adapters are unnecessary. Regardless of how you power on the PSUs, distributing the load appropriately remains your responsibility. If there was a device that simplified that process, it might be worth it, but the add2psu and dual PSU adapter will do no such thing. Thank you for your comment. That is definitely something I thought about. Coolermaster is Enhance and the Corsairs are CWT. But pretty much all new corsairs, all lines are CWT. It's the older gen AX series that is seasonic. I do have an AX850 on my personal PC which has done no mining. Do you reckon it'd be better to use that and get the RM850i on my main PC? I will ofcourse be on an ongoing search for upgrading the rig. The moment I find a good deal for a good PSU I'll start upgrading. The adapters were just bought to power on the PSUs at the same time. At this time all cards will be evenly distributed between PSUs accordind to their TDP. Server PSUs is indeed another option I explored. Seemed a bit too complicated. But I might have been wrong. They only provide 12v so they're only for cards but how do I power them on and off. Do I risk damage if the cards are powered on like a minute before or after the motherboard? Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 08, 2017, 06:40:50 PM I found this Kill A Watt alternative locally. Seems like good quality. I'll have different sockets on the wall for each PSU. Is it safe to leave it on 24/7? If yes I'm thinking in buying 3. One for each socket.
https://www.brennenstuhl.com/en-DE/primera-line-wattage-and-current-meter-pm-231-e https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX6q24OTNBs Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Undefined31415 on December 08, 2017, 06:43:29 PM One other thing about going with older powerful cards like those R9-type cards is, for the hashrate you're getting, you're spending more on higher-wattage PSUs than you'd need to achieve similar hashrates with more efficient cards. (PSU costs are a factor to consider in addition to your electricity rate, when selecting inefficient cards.) Corsair is a generally good brand, but you have to keep an eye on which series of their PSUs you purchase. The lower-end ones and the mid-range ones usually have their guts made by Channel Well (CWT), which isn't too great, although they have gotten better than in the past, since they started working closely with Corsair. I would generally consider Cooler Master as a low-average performer as far as PSUs go. Usually they work with CWT or HEC as the OEM. PSUs manufactured by CWT or HEC are about as low as I'd go for a general desktop build, and I probably wouldn't buy a PSU from them for mining purposes. The especially reputable PSU OEMs are Seasonic, SuperFlower, and FSP. Upper-end units from Corsair, EVGA, XFX, and a number of other brands are handled by those OEMs. Realistically, you're *probably* going to be fine with the PSUs you chose. (Though, I wouldn't trust them for 24/7 operation at 80-90% of the rating.) However, especially when you're going to have 3 PSUs on a rig (in a nonredundant configuration that creates additional points of failure, if anything), you definitely want high-quality power supplies. If the primary PSU (powering the main motherboard connector and 12V CPU power) fails, the entire rig goes down. If one of the other two goes down, it might just take the connected graphics cards down, or it could crash the entire system (these GPUs were not meant to be hot-swappable, so something might throw an error). Additionally, higher-quality PSUs usually provide cleaner power, which is better for your cards, as far as longevity is concerned. As VyprBTC mentioned, the add2psu and dual PSU adapters are unnecessary. Regardless of how you power on the PSUs, distributing the load appropriately remains your responsibility. If there was a device that simplified that process, it might be worth it, but the add2psu and dual PSU adapter will do no such thing. Thank you for your comment. That is definitely something I thought about. Coolermaster is Enhance and the Corsairs are CWT. But pretty much all new corsairs, all lines are CWT. It's the older gen AX series that is seasonic. I do have an AX850 on my personal PC which has done no mining. Do you reckon it'd be better to use that and get the RM850i on my main PC? I will ofcourse be on an ongoing search for upgrading the rig. The moment I find a good deal for a good PSU I'll start upgrading. The adapters were just bought to power on the PSUs at the same time. At this time all cards will be evenly distributed between PSUs accordind to their TDP. Server PSUs is indeed another option I explored. Seemed a bit too complicated. But I might have been wrong. They only provide 12v so they're only for cards but how do I power them on and off. Do I risk damage if the cards are powered on like a minute before or after the motherboard? There's no real need to try to synchronize the PSU startup. Ensure all the secondary PSUs are on first, then boot the system. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 08, 2017, 07:00:18 PM OP,
For the sake of safety, I would use 1 or max 2 server PSUs, preferably of the same model and condition. 3 different PSUs, even good quality, seem the weak point to me. With server PSUs, you assemble the cabling by yourself and make sure every contact is strong and stable - very important when dealing with high currents. Additionally, you are not restricted to the configuration of power connectors. Will the rig be enclosed or there will be free air flow? Low temperatures affect negatively computer hardware - I had a case when the miner started only after the ambient temperature got >15C. Haven't figured what was the problem - either the HDD or the server PSU. From my calculations, you rig would be running OK with 2x 750-1000W or 1x 1600-2000W server PSU + a DC-DC ATX converter (picoPSU). If you're a skilled DIY enthusiast, I can help you with details in PM. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 08, 2017, 07:40:14 PM OP, For the sake of safety, I would use 1 or max 2 server PSUs, preferably of the same model and condition. 3 different PSUs, even good quality, seem the weak point to me. With server PSUs, you assemble the cabling by yourself and make sure every contact is strong and stable - very important when dealing with high currents. Additionally, you are not restricted to the configuration of power connectors. Will the rig be enclosed or there will be free air flow? Low temperatures affect negatively computer hardware - I had a case when the miner started only after the ambient temperature got >15C. Haven't figured what was the problem - either the HDD or the server PSU. From my calculations, you rig would be running OK with 2x 750-1000W or 1x 1600-2000W server PSU + a DC-DC ATX converter (picoPSU). If you're a skilled DIY enthusiast, I can help you with details in PM. Yep, I would had bought a couple from www.parallelminer.com but they're in the US and the Custom charges were gonna rape me. I will keep exploring that option to replace the PSUs I have. But next week I have to have the rig online. It's gonna be open air. Temperatures right now at night are already ~5C. :/ Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: VyprBTC on December 08, 2017, 07:55:00 PM OP, For the sake of safety, I would use 1 or max 2 server PSUs, preferably of the same model and condition. 3 different PSUs, even good quality, seem the weak point to me. With server PSUs, you assemble the cabling by yourself and make sure every contact is strong and stable - very important when dealing with high currents. Additionally, you are not restricted to the configuration of power connectors. Will the rig be enclosed or there will be free air flow? Low temperatures affect negatively computer hardware - I had a case when the miner started only after the ambient temperature got >15C. Haven't figured what was the problem - either the HDD or the server PSU. From my calculations, you rig would be running OK with 2x 750-1000W or 1x 1600-2000W server PSU + a DC-DC ATX converter (picoPSU). If you're a skilled DIY enthusiast, I can help you with details in PM. Yep, I would had bought a couple from www.parallelminer.com but they're in the US and the Custom charges were gonna rape me. I will keep exploring that option to replace the PSUs I have. But next week I have to have the rig online. It's gonna be open air. Temperatures right now at night are already ~5C. :/ Everything sold on parallel miner can be found for 1/5th the price anywhere else. They just make it easy to source everything from one spot. just buy the server psu's, buy the breakout boards, you're good to go. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: SafeCash on December 08, 2017, 07:56:18 PM 2
Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 08, 2017, 08:43:18 PM Everything sold on parallel miner can be found for 1/5th the price anywhere else. They just make it easy to source everything from one spot. just buy the server psu's, buy the breakout boards, you're good to go. I actually did find a 1500w one for 100euro and a 1200w one for just 27euro (41 with shipping)!!! I'm having trouble finding a cheaper breakout board though. edit: Found one on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/DPS-1200FB-Power-Supply-Adapter-Board-10-Pcs-6-2P-Cable-50cm-For-Ethereum-Mining/401404327768?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 with cables for 16 euro. Should I order these and put the RM750 and G750M for sale when they arrive? I'll actually make a profit out of that heh Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 08, 2017, 10:09:25 PM I actually did find a 1500w one for 100euro and a 1200w one for just 27euro!!! I'm having trouble finding a cheaper breakout board though. Where exactly are you from?I imported the PSU and connectors, bought 100 m cable locally and done all the soldering by myself. I used electric mounting rails instead of breakout boards: http://fb.ru/misc/i/gallery/43170/1705825.jpg It allows you connect as many power cords (=consumers) as you need, while breakout boards are limited in output. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 08, 2017, 10:13:48 PM I actually did find a 1500w one for 100euro and a 1200w one for just 27euro!!! I'm having trouble finding a cheaper breakout board though. Where exactly are you from?I imported the PSU and connectors, bought 100 m cable locally and done all the soldering by myself. I used electric mounting rails instead of breakout boards: http://fb.ru/misc/i/gallery/43170/1705825.jpg It allows you connect as many power cords (=consumers) as you need, while breakout boards are limited in output. I would rather not go into DIY stuff. I might be competent but I'm not knowledgeable enough. If you read my edited post, I think the stuff I found might be good enough. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 08, 2017, 10:49:56 PM Mixing hawaii and polaris can be a major PITA, they like different driver generations.
About Corsair RM series, it's not the best there is but it does it's job more than well, just don't push those hawaii's with ETH/ dual mining or you might have some melted connectors. My Brennenstuhl with rm1000x + 4x290x, calculator says $22/ day: http://i66.tinypic.com/35ktwns.jpg Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 08, 2017, 11:01:56 PM Mixing hawaii and polaris can be a major PITA, they like different driver generations. Drivers for different GPU generations can be installed manually through the device manager.About Corsair RM series, it's not the best there is but it does it's job more than well, just don't push those hawaii's with ETH/ dual mining or you might have some melted connectors. My Brennenstuhl with rm1000x + 4x290x, calculator says $22/ day: Your profitability makes me wonder - either the calculator is broken or you mine some top class coin :) Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 08, 2017, 11:19:38 PM Drivers for different GPU generations can be installed manually through the device manager. True, it's just that making them work together on that same rig is sometimes challenging when trying to find the most profitable coins out there. If I were OP I would just build two rigs.Your profitability makes me wonder - either the calculator is broken or you mine some top class coin :) My number bending calculator is always broken. But I'm working on it haha!Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 08, 2017, 11:27:14 PM Is that really only 673 Watts for 4 290 cards? Or am I reading it wrong?
I don't know about the drivers. I tested them all with the same drivers, the blockchain beta ones. I also tested them with their respective latest drivers too and both gens performed worse. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 08, 2017, 11:52:13 PM Is that really only 673 Watts for 4 290 cards? Or am I reading it wrong? Yes, "only" 673 watts at the wall for 4 x 290x, that's just one forgotten powersaving algo.I don't know about the drivers. I tested them all with the same drivers, the blockchain beta ones. I also tested them with their respective latest drivers too and both gens performed worse. They do work for some mainstream algos & miners like ETH & Claymore. You said you like ETH, you should mine that most profitable coin and trade it to ETH then. For a 290 that most profitable algo lately has been Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 09, 2017, 12:16:36 AM Is that really only 673 Watts for 4 290 cards? Or am I reading it wrong? Yes, only 673 watts at the wall for 4 x 290x, that's just one forgotten powersaving algo.I don't know about the drivers. I tested them all with the same drivers, the blockchain beta ones. I also tested them with their respective latest drivers too and both gens performed worse. They do work for some mainstream algos & miners like ETH & Claymore. You said you like ETH, you should mine that most profitable coin and trade it to ETH then. For a 290 that most profitable algo lately has been Are you keeping your Brennenstuhl on 24/7? Honestly right now I just want to get it online lol, I'll figure out what to mine when I do. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it as they say :P Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 09, 2017, 12:25:16 AM Are you keeping your Brennenstuhl on 24/7? Honestly right now I just want to get it online lol, I'll figure out what to mine when I do. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it as they say :P I've killed many of those china kill-a-watts before but this brennensthul just keeps going. In fact, you feel the difference when you hold it in your hand. It has been running 24/7 for about two years now without problems. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 09, 2017, 12:49:10 AM Are you keeping your Brennenstuhl on 24/7? Honestly right now I just want to get it online lol, I'll figure out what to mine when I do. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it as they say :P I've killed many of those china kill-a-watts before but this brennensthul just keeps going. In fact, you feel the difference when you hold it in your hand. It has been running 24/7 for about two years now without problems. That's great to hear. Cheap too! Just 18 euro locally. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 09, 2017, 01:23:22 AM That's great to hear. Cheap too! Just 18 euro locally. I was desperate to find one after I killed those cheap ones. All those big brick&mortars were like :o so I went to a shop where I normally buy pro tools for some some other hobbies I have. At first they were :o too but then they said wait, wait. And there it was , my brennenstuhl -50%, 10. Honestly, at that point, I would be willing to pay a lot more for it. Ghetto rig = best rig. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 09, 2017, 05:08:41 PM My electrician came today and finished the electrical work. Now I have a direct like from the Breaker panel with its own circuit. And heavy duty all weather cables and sockets.
Image: https://imgur.com/zu6tsIe Also, I ordered an HP DPS-1200FB P/N 438202-001 Power Supply and a breakout box with cables. The breakout box is from China though, so it'll take a while to arrive. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DPS-1200FB-Power-Breakout-Adapter-Board-10-6-2Pin-Cable-for-Ethereum-Mining-Sale/372129870321?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 This one has a power on switch as well. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 10, 2017, 05:25:18 PM Hey, My frame's spacings are way off for the 007S risers. And I can only screw only one of the holes ;) :D Do you think it'll cause damage if they stay like in the pic for prolonged periods of time? GPU is firmly staying in place.
Picture: https://imgur.com/a/idqvN Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: QuintLeo on December 10, 2017, 10:13:02 PM Mixing hawaii and polaris can be a major PITA, they like different driver generations. About Corsair RM series, it's not the best there is but it does it's job more than well, just don't push those hawaii's with ETH/ dual mining or you might have some melted connectors. My Brennenstuhl with rm1000x + 4x290x, calculator says $22/ day: http://i66.tinypic.com/35ktwns.jpg 16.9 and 16.10 series drivers work well on both RX 4xx and R9 2xx series cards under Windows. It's the RX 5xx series cards and Vega where you start getting into "garbage support for older cards" issues on Windows. On the LINUX side, you have to go AMDGPU-PRO for anything RX series, and those drivers are just a pain in general and most of them do NOT work well with the older R9 series cards. R9 290 cards aren't hard to get the power down on - update them with a undervolt BIOS from TheStilt and DON'T overclock them. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: QuintLeo on December 10, 2017, 10:14:59 PM Are you keeping your Brennenstuhl on 24/7? Honestly right now I just want to get it online lol, I'll figure out what to mine when I do. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it as they say :P I've killed many of those china kill-a-watts before but this brennensthul just keeps going. In fact, you feel the difference when you hold it in your hand. It has been running 24/7 for about two years now without problems. My Brand power meter has been working for .... hmmm, at least 15 and pushing close to 20 years now. Might not look as pretty as those cheap Kill-A-Watts but it's like the EverReady Bunny...... Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 13, 2017, 11:15:06 PM Heeeey
Completed the rig today!! Realized that for 6 cards I don't need a 3rd PSU!! So I only installed the 2 RM ones. RM750 runs only the 2x 290x and RM850i runs everything else and all the risers. Corsair link reports it pull around 800W from the wall. My meter hasn't arrived yet. I get ~130MH/s out of the box, drivers from windows 10 automatic updates. Pretty good if you ask me! What I'd like to know if it is possible to see temps of each GPU. Right now I can't see much info about any of the GPUs except the intel integrated one I run my monitor. Is it not possible? Or did I do something not right? I also can't do touch anything on them on MSI afterburner, no clocks not anything. Pictures!: https://imgur.com/a/fQcwp Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Omg9500 on December 13, 2017, 11:29:32 PM If afterburner not working for you it might be because of drivers. Try sapphire TRIXX instead.
Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 14, 2017, 12:48:13 AM I get ~130MH/s out of the box, drivers from windows 10 automatic updates. Pretty good if you ask me! What I'd like to know if it is possible to see temps of each GPU. Right now I can't see much info about any of the GPUs except the intel integrated one I run my monitor. Is it not possible? Or did I do something not right? I also can't do touch anything on them on MSI afterburner, no clocks not anything. 1. Turn off automatic updates2. EthMon - available for Win and Android 3. Connect the monitor to the primary GPU (X16_1 slot) Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: nerdralph on December 14, 2017, 04:13:53 PM I get ~130MH/s out of the box, drivers from windows 10 automatic updates. Pretty good if you ask me! What I'd like to know if it is possible to see temps of each GPU. Right now I can't see much info about any of the GPUs except the intel integrated one I run my monitor. Is it not possible? Or did I do something not right? I also can't do touch anything on them on MSI afterburner, no clocks not anything. 1. Turn off automatic updates2. EthMon - available for Win and Android 3. Connect the monitor to the primary GPU (X16_1 slot) I use Linux, so don't have anything good to say about using Windoze. Instead of connecting a monitor to the primary GPU, I recommend using the on-board video for the display. You can often overclock cards a bit more when they don't need to do video out. It's also easier for testing GPUs since you just leave the video cable plugged into the motherboard. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 14, 2017, 04:32:03 PM I use Linux, so don't have anything good to say about using Windoze. Temperature monitoring and overclocking in AB/ODnT does not work for AMD Polaris cards, unless the primary GPU is connected to a monitor. Can't say if the same applies for Linux.Instead of connecting a monitor to the primary GPU, I recommend using the on-board video for the display. You can often overclock cards a bit more when they don't need to do video out. It's also easier for testing GPUs since you just leave the video cable plugged into the motherboard. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: btcgolong on December 14, 2017, 04:56:42 PM OP, For the sake of safety, I would use 1 or max 2 server PSUs, preferably of the same model and condition. 3 different PSUs, even good quality, seem the weak point to me. With server PSUs, you assemble the cabling by yourself and make sure every contact is strong and stable - very important when dealing with high currents. Additionally, you are not restricted to the configuration of power connectors. Will the rig be enclosed or there will be free air flow? Low temperatures affect negatively computer hardware - I had a case when the miner started only after the ambient temperature got >15C. Haven't figured what was the problem - either the HDD or the server PSU. From my calculations, you rig would be running OK with 2x 750-1000W or 1x 1600-2000W server PSU + a DC-DC ATX converter (picoPSU). If you're a skilled DIY enthusiast, I can help you with details in PM. Yep, I would had bought a couple from www.parallelminer.com but they're in the US and the Custom charges were gonna rape me. I will keep exploring that option to replace the PSUs I have. But next week I have to have the rig online. It's gonna be open air. Temperatures right now at night are already ~5C. :/ Could not find if you mentioned where you are from in the thread ? What area of the globe do you come from ? Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 15, 2017, 01:03:42 AM I get ~130MH/s out of the box, drivers from windows 10 automatic updates. Pretty good if you ask me! What I'd like to know if it is possible to see temps of each GPU. Right now I can't see much info about any of the GPUs except the intel integrated one I run my monitor. Is it not possible? Or did I do something not right? I also can't do touch anything on them on MSI afterburner, no clocks not anything. 1. Turn off automatic updates2. EthMon - available for Win and Android 3. Connect the monitor to the primary GPU (X16_1 slot) Thank you! I run into some electrical problems yesterday and I uninstalled it for a day. I will continue setting it up tomorrow! EthMonitoring looks like one hell of a tool! Can't wait to try it! So I need to put one card on the PCIe3 x16 slot and connect my monitor on it to be able to see temps and OC for all cards? @btcgolong I'm located in Southern Europe @nerdralph Yeah I already have the monitor on the onboard gpu. :) Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 15, 2017, 01:13:02 PM So I need to put one card on the PCIe3 x16 slot and connect my monitor on it to be able to see temps and OC for all cards? The primary GPU is the one connected to the 1st PCI-Express X16 slot. You can connect it through a riser - no problems. A HDMI-DVI or HDMI-VGA emulator will also work instead of the monitor.Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 15, 2017, 07:28:14 PM So I need to put one card on the PCIe3 x16 slot and connect my monitor on it to be able to see temps and OC for all cards? The primary GPU is the one connected to the 1st PCI-Express X16 slot. You can connect it through a riser - no problems. A HDMI-DVI or HDMI-VGA emulator will also work instead of the monitor.Thanks! I was in disbelief of how easy that fix was! I also set up EthMonitoring. Great tool. I installed the blockchain drivers (had to disable internet, no matter how many ways I tried to stop automatic updates, it was still installing them on its own). I gained ~6MH/s throughout all 6 cards. I atried some very mild OC on the 390 which has excellent temps and got 30MHs with it. But it was also OCing the 290 on its own. I don't know why. Just these 2. But they both hash at 30MH/s now. Went from 136MH/s to ~140-42MH/s. Is it worth it to bother with custom BIOSes? Or this is good enough you think? Ethermine reports 150MH/s effective hashrate. The 390 fluctuates from rarely 20 to 26 to mostly 30MH/s and RX560 from 9 to 12MH/s. 290 gave a 24MH/s once too. I can't push these anymore because I already pull 850w from the wall with the 850 PSU with 91% efficiency. I can't OC the 2x 290x at all also since they don't have the best temps, they're at 84-87C Quick edit: I got the 290x cards to go at 30Mh/s with a mild OC and temps stayed the same. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 15, 2017, 07:54:37 PM Is it worth it to bother with custom BIOSes? Custom bios only speeds up cryptonight and equihash, if you are only mining dagger gains are so small that it's not worth the hassle. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 16, 2017, 11:35:50 AM Hmm, I'm having some problems now. After an hour, OCed or stock speeds it keeps crashing. First time it worked for 7 hours straight, then 3, then it won't stay going for over an hour. :/
Maybe the blockchain drivers? Maybe the PSU when it pulls 800w stock 850 OCed from the wall? I think I found something. Maybe that was causing it. I went to fire it up now again and one card wasn't working. Its riser on the montherboard the usb port was touching the solder of the next one. When I put a piece of paper between it worked. I'm not sure that was why the card wasn't working, I didn't want to test it and let it touch on purpose. Maybe that's why it was crashing, after a while, it would touch or something. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 16, 2017, 04:33:07 PM Maybe that's why it was crashing, after a while, it would touch or something. No, it still crashed. >:( I'm testing now with the latest drivers not the blockchain ones. to see what will happen. EDIT: I got the r9 cards to 30MH/s with the same mild OC with latest drivers. But I'm missing a couple MH/s between the RX cards. But hey if it's stable I can live with that. Is it safe to leave the rig with 850w pull from the wall from the RM850i PSU? Or should I go back to 28MH/s and ~800W pull? Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: nerdralph on December 16, 2017, 06:30:07 PM Is it worth it to bother with custom BIOSes? Custom bios only speeds up cryptonight and equihash, if you are only mining dagger gains are so small that it's not worth the hassle. http://nerdralph.blogspot.ca/2016/09/advanced-tonga-bios-editing.html Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 16, 2017, 06:47:34 PM Is it worth it to bother with custom BIOSes? Custom bios only speeds up cryptonight and equihash, if you are only mining dagger gains are so small that it's not worth the hassle. http://nerdralph.blogspot.ca/2016/09/advanced-tonga-bios-editing.html Bad quote by me, clipped too much, sorry! OP was asking about 290 bios modding so my comment was meant to be hawaii only. Like you said, all(?) amd's with lower than 512-bit membus typically do 5-15% more after some bios tweaking, also on dagger. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: QuintLeo on December 16, 2017, 09:04:16 PM Is it worth it to bother with custom BIOSes? Custom bios only speeds up cryptonight and equihash, if you are only mining dagger gains are so small that it's not worth the hassle. BIOS from TheStilt on my Sapphire reference R9 290 cards dropped power draw some (I don't remember the actual figures, and didn't use one of the "deep undervolt" versions), dropped TEMPS a ton, and allowed me to run them at 1100 core vs TEMP LIMITING at 947 stock or less core while running 10 degrees or so COOLER despite the additional overclock. It was a night and day difference. DEFINITELY a good thing on a reference card, might not be needed on aftermarket cards with better cooling (and likely "upgraded" BIOS" already vs reference). Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 16, 2017, 09:12:04 PM Is it worth it to bother with custom BIOSes? Custom bios only speeds up cryptonight and equihash, if you are only mining dagger gains are so small that it's not worth the hassle. BIOS from TheStilt on my Sapphire reference R9 290 cards dropped power draw some (I don't remember the actual figures, and didn't use one of the "deep undervolt" versions), dropped TEMPS a ton, and allowed me to run them at 1100 core vs TEMP LIMITING at 947 stock or less core while running 10 degrees or so COOLER despite the additional overclock. It was a night and day difference. DEFINITELY a good thing on a reference card, might not be needed on aftermarket cards with better cooling (and likely "upgraded" BIOS" already vs reference). My Asus reference is not that bad. Running it 1100core and only goes up to 74C max and I only got it for 130euro because it's reference and it hashes the same exactly at the 390 and 290x.. It's my MSI 290X that goes 90-91-92, the one right behind my 390. When I moved the other to another slot it it has a bit more air it dropped 10C. Good thing I changed the thermal paste on these. Shit was hitting literally 99C the first 5 minutes of mining with previous paste. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 16, 2017, 09:44:10 PM About the first mod every reference 290(x) owner should do:
http://i67.tinypic.com/2yni1c0.jpg After that is done and you still want more you need to start playing with bios. It will never be a powersaver but still a very profitable card to mine with. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 16, 2017, 11:48:21 PM About the first mod every reference 290(x) owner should do: After that is done and you still want more you need to start playing with bios. It will never be a powersaver but still a very profitable card to mine with. But you just lost half or more its resale value! I think my reference is fine. Honestly if all references are like my Asus then I'm all for them! Cheaper and cooler, noise after a certain volume is irrelevant anyway. Or I got some very bad batch of MSI 290x Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 17, 2017, 12:07:12 AM That was just some pic from the web haha!
Just find those right screws... Ref 290 currently sells somewhere in $100-150 area and does something like $3-4/ day. Who cares about resale value? Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 17, 2017, 12:53:59 AM That was just some pic from the web haha! Just find those right screws... Ref 290 currently sells somewhere in $100-150 area and does something like $3-4/ day. Who cares about resale value? Well getting your initial investment back isn't hurting. You cut the cost of your next investment! Anyway, going for 6:30 hours now with the latest drivers and I'm going to sleep. Will it be on when I wake up? Who knows. Rained today and it's very humid. Afraid of condensation if they shut down during the night. Seems like effective hashrate is MUCH lower though. With beta drivers I was getting 146MH/s reported and 150MH/s effective. Now I get 144MH/s reported and 120MH/s effective. That's one r9 card difference! Pull from wall still fluctuates between ~790w and ~850w. IDK id that's safe. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 17, 2017, 01:55:42 AM Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: bassistas on December 17, 2017, 06:44:51 AM Hi guys, I am looking to get some more gpus for mining.
Currently I have 5x r9 390x, 1x 1080ti , 1x gtx980 and 5x r9 380. r9 290 4GB caught my attention because is pretty cheap on ebay and powerful, I read that has about 380 sol/s with overclocking in zec/zen/btg, is this true? The same hashrate I get also on my overclocked gtx980 so I am in a dilemma what gpu to get because also gtx980 is about the same price used but sucks in ethereum mining,so I'll have to stick with equihash algorithm. Can I achieve this hashrate with any r9 290 or some brands are voltage locked? also has anyone measured how much is exactly the power draw from an overclocked r9 290? I am looking to get the asus b250 mining expert to fill all 19 gpu slots with r9 290s but how many PSU will I need and how much wattage each? can I use this one? https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt (https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt) Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 17, 2017, 09:55:29 AM Oh man, it crashed again righg before I closed my eyes. Pretty much the same same time as yesterday! I don't know if time plays any role. I've tried so much now, I'm getting discouraged and tired :(
I set it up again at stock speeds then and it still stopped an hour after. Do you have any idea what could be causing it? Cause I'm all out of ideas. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 17, 2017, 10:42:28 AM I am looking to get the asus b250 mining expert to fill all 19 gpu slots with r9 290s but how many PSU will I need and how much wattage each? can I use this one? https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt (https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt) First of all, check if AMD drivers allow to hook up >10 R9 cards. Polaris are supported in Q>10, not sure about older cards.Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: bassistas on December 17, 2017, 10:51:26 AM I am looking to get the asus b250 mining expert to fill all 19 gpu slots with r9 290s but how many PSU will I need and how much wattage each? can I use this one? https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt (https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt) First of all, check if AMD drivers allow to hook up >10 R9 cards. Polaris are supported in Q>10, not sure about older cards.Maybe I will go for another motherboard because I am searching all over the internet now and I cant find this model in stock. So I think its better idea to stick with some cheap 775 socket motherboards with at least four pci-e slots each. I have found some very cheap with ram and cpu included under 40 euros. So do I need a 1200watt server psu for each of these motherboards? is this ok for 4x r9 290 overclocked or I need more capacity? also can anyone tell me how these server psus work? I see they attach pci-e cables on them for the gpus (through a custom adapter) but there is no atx plug or cpu plug for the motherboard. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 17, 2017, 11:04:38 AM So I think its better idea to stick with some cheap 775 socket motherboards with at least four pci-e slots each. Even if a 775 MB has >4 PCI-E slots, not all of them may be functional simultaneously. Look for higher-end P45 models (Asus P5Q-E for example). You can slap any CPU, but preferably a dual-core and 4GB RAM.I have found some very cheap with ram and cpu included under 40 euros. So do I need a 1200watt server psu for each of these motherboards? is this ok for 4x r9 290 overclocked or I need more capacity? also can anyone tell me how these server psus work? I see they attach pci-e cables on them for the gpus (through a custom adapter) but there is no atx plug or cpu plug for the motherboard. The server PSU delivers +12V voltage to +12V consumers: GPUs, additional fans. You can power the ATX standard consumers - MB, HDD/SSD, through a DC-DC converter (picoPSU) or using a separate ATX PSU (you'll need to synchronize the server PSU with the ATX one). You have 3 connection options for server PSU: 1. solder a couple bunch of power cables to PSU's output and split cables to each consumer 2. use a breakout board and connect consumers through detachable cables 3. solder beefy power cords to PSU's output and distribute to each consumer through a terminal block Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 17, 2017, 02:18:50 PM I can't find out why it keeps crashing after a while. If you have any idea what to check or what to try after let me know. I'm all out of ideas! Maybe a different driver version or something. But which one. I've tried latest and beta drivers, OC or stock speeds, and I've been monitoring it, it's not overheating. It's somewhat random but I've noticed a couple of patterns like both nights crashing at 3:15-20am. But could be a coincidence.
Could it be a problematic PSU? Hope not. Edit: I was just right infront of a crash. My wifi had an interruption and the reconnecting in 20secs message appeared in claymore a couple of times. As cards were slowing down it froze and crashed. I know wifi for a miner is not ideal but where is is located connecting it with a cable is very hard. I was thinking of a wifi repeater and then ethernet cable. I hope maybe that will fix the interruptions and maybe the crashes? Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 17, 2017, 05:17:43 PM Edit: I was just right infront of a crash. My wifi had an interruption and the reconnecting in 20secs message appeared in claymore a couple of times. As cards were slowing down it froze and crashed. I know wifi for a miner is not ideal but where is is located connecting it with a cable is very hard. I was thinking of a wifi repeater and then ethernet cable. I hope maybe that will fix the interruptions and maybe the crashes? It happens the miner to crash the rig if Internet connection is lost. Buy a better quality Wi-Fi receiver if you can't wire the miner to LAN.Post the last lines of miner logs here. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: bassistas on December 17, 2017, 11:30:54 PM So I think its better idea to stick with some cheap 775 socket motherboards with at least four pci-e slots each. Even if a 775 MB has >4 PCI-E slots, not all of them may be functional simultaneously. Look for higher-end P45 models (Asus P5Q-E for example). You can slap any CPU, but preferably a dual-core and 4GB RAM.I have found some very cheap with ram and cpu included under 40 euros. So do I need a 1200watt server psu for each of these motherboards? is this ok for 4x r9 290 overclocked or I need more capacity? also can anyone tell me how these server psus work? I see they attach pci-e cables on them for the gpus (through a custom adapter) but there is no atx plug or cpu plug for the motherboard. The server PSU delivers +12V voltage to +12V consumers: GPUs, additional fans. You can power the ATX standard consumers - MB, HDD/SSD, through a DC-DC converter (picoPSU) or using a separate ATX PSU (you'll need to synchronize the server PSU with the ATX one). You have 3 connection options for server PSU: 1. solder a couple bunch of power cables to PSU's output and split cables to each consumer 2. use a breakout board and connect consumers through detachable cables 3. solder beefy power cords to PSU's output and distribute to each consumer through a terminal block this particular motherboard I've found has all 4 pci-e functional simultaneously so its ok. Can you suggest a good and cheap 1200w server psu, a picoPSU and an appropriate breakout board with cables included to order them all together from ebay? There are too many for sale and I am lost. will this one handle 4x r9 290 or 4x r9 390? https://www.ebay.com/i/122841705413?rt=nc (https://www.ebay.com/i/122841705413?rt=nc) Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 18, 2017, 11:08:30 AM Edit: I was just right infront of a crash. My wifi had an interruption and the reconnecting in 20secs message appeared in claymore a couple of times. As cards were slowing down it froze and crashed. I know wifi for a miner is not ideal but where is is located connecting it with a cable is very hard. I was thinking of a wifi repeater and then ethernet cable. I hope maybe that will fix the interruptions and maybe the crashes? It happens the miner to crash the rig if Internet connection is lost. Buy a better quality Wi-Fi receiver if you can't wire the miner to LAN.Post the last lines of miner logs here. Today it stayed online for 8+ hours. And it didn't crash it it restarted for some reason. This is the logs before restart. 5:48:371 de4 ETH: GPU0 27.028 Mh/s, GPU1 27.086 Mh/s, GPU2 27.721 Mh/s, GPU3 10.925 Mh/s, GPU4 10.912 Mh/s, GPU5 26.094 Mh/s 04:15:49:262 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:15:52:763 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:15:53:606 1a34 recv: 60 04:15:53:606 1a34 srv pck: 59 04:15:53:810 1a34 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:15:53:810 1a34 srv bs: 0 04:15:53:810 1a34 sent: 188 04:15:56:232 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:15:56:732 de4 ETH: checking pool connection... 04:15:56:732 de4 send: {"worker": "", "jsonrpc": "2.0", "params": [], "id": 3, "method": "eth_getWork"} 04:15:59:998 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:04:326 de4 send: {"id":6,"jsonrpc":"2.0","method":"eth_submitHashrate","params":["0x0", "0x000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000007cc1fc2c"]} 04:16:04:483 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:07:061 de4 ETH: checking pool connection... 04:16:08:249 de4 send: {"worker": "", "jsonrpc": "2.0", "params": [], "id": 3, "method": "eth_getWork"} 04:16:10:374 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:14:609 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:15:515 f6c recv: 60 04:16:16:296 f6c srv pck: 59 04:16:17:843 f6c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:19:609 de4 Socket was closed remotely (by pool) 04:16:19:093 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:19:219 f6c srv bs: 0 04:16:27:704 de4 ETH: Connection lost, retry in 20 sec... 04:16:25:625 f6c sent: 160 04:16:30:407 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:51:128 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:51:534 444 em hbt: 33204, fm hbt: 0, 04:16:51:941 444 watchdog - thread 0 (gpu0), hb time 60047 04:16:53:503 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 0 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:54:144 444 watchdog - thread 1 (gpu0), hb time 62031 04:16:54:160 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 0 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:54:175 444 watchdog - thread 2 (gpu1), hb time 62109 04:16:54:175 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 1 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:54:191 444 watchdog - thread 3 (gpu1), hb time 61891 04:16:54:191 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 1 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:54:238 444 watchdog - thread 4 (gpu2), hb time 62188 04:16:54:347 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 2 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:54:832 444 watchdog - thread 5 (gpu2), hb time 62532 04:16:54:910 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 2 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:55:363 444 watchdog - thread 6 (gpu3), hb time 63188 04:16:55:426 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 3 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:55:660 444 watchdog - thread 7 (gpu3), hb time 63672 04:16:55:957 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 3 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:56:004 444 watchdog - thread 8 (gpu4), hb time 63829 04:16:56:019 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 4 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:56:176 444 watchdog - thread 9 (gpu4), hb time 64234 04:16:56:316 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 4 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:56:426 444 watchdog - thread 10 (gpu5), hb time 64562 04:16:56:566 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 5 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:56:566 444 watchdog - thread 11 (gpu5), hb time 64500 04:16:56:597 444 WATCHDOG: GPU 5 hangs in OpenCL call, exit 04:16:55:301 b3c recv: 60 04:16:56:676 b3c srv pck: 59 04:16:56:894 444 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:57:238 b3c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:16:57:582 b3c srv bs: 0 04:16:57:785 b3c sent: 138 04:17:01:551 444 Restarting OK, exit... This is the next log: 04:17:15:959 128 Check and remove old log files... 04:17:16:615 128 args: -epool eu1.ethermine.org:4444 -ewal 0xD2F39eC8d4161019428395a8136793BC4E3c9C33.Rig1 -epsw x 04:17:16:772 128 04:17:17:068 128 ΙΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝ» 04:17:17:147 128 Ί Claymore's Dual ETH + DCR/SC/LBC/PASC GPU Miner v10.1 Ί 04:17:17:240 128 ΘΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΝΌ 04:17:17:334 128 04:17:17:678 128 ETH: 1 pool is specified 04:17:17:709 128 Main Ethereum pool is eu1.ethermine.org:4444 04:17:17:787 128 DCR: 0 pool is specified 04:17:50:760 948 04:18:25:154 948 04:19:07:111 948 12:38:43:859 948 Miner cannot initialize for 5 minutes, need to restart miner! 12:38:43:874 948 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 12:38:45:975 948 Restarting OK, exit... Then I found it restarted, working, waiting on the sign in page. I cannot find out why it restarted. Today I'm gonna connect it with Ethernet. I found a cable long enough. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 18, 2017, 12:09:27 PM this particular motherboard I've found has all 4 pci-e functional simultaneously so its ok. It's not the best PSU you could find. Go for Delta DPS-1200 (any modification that has only +12V output is good).Can you suggest a good and cheap 1200w server psu, a picoPSU and an appropriate breakout board with cables included to order them all together from ebay? There are too many for sale and I am lost. will this one handle 4x r9 290 or 4x r9 390? https://www.ebay.com/i/122841705413?rt=nc (https://www.ebay.com/i/122841705413?rt=nc) PicoPSU (http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1625/4675/products/24_12_f1d22654-a76e-4b28-9785-a0ad260c62b3_grande.jpg?v=1484419696) - 180/250 W Breakout - at least with 3 oz copper, look for it to have beefy connectors I won't advise any cables, many of them are crap, especially the cheap ones. Quote ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters This error has nothing to do with the internet connection. Check for driver issues.Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: bassistas on December 18, 2017, 04:56:15 PM will this one handle 4x r9 290 or 4x r9 390?
https://www.ebay.com/i/122841705413?rt=nc (https://www.ebay.com/i/122841705413?rt=nc) [/quote] It's not the best PSU you could find. Go for Delta DPS-1200 (any modification that has only +12V output is good). PicoPSU (http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1625/4675/products/24_12_f1d22654-a76e-4b28-9785-a0ad260c62b3_grande.jpg?v=1484419696) - 180/250 W Breakout - at least with 3 oz copper, look for it to have beefy connectors I won't advise any cables, many of them are crap, especially the cheap ones. Is this the same as the standart dps-1200? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-700-1200W-Power-Supply-DPS-1200ABA/331650462356?hash=item4d37e87294:g:Fq8AAOSwZ4dZMEdk (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-700-1200W-Power-Supply-DPS-1200ABA/331650462356?hash=item4d37e87294:g:Fq8AAOSwZ4dZMEdk) there are many variations dps-1200fb, dps-1200TB etc. Are all the same? also the breakout board fits all of them or there is specific designed breakout board for each variation? Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 18, 2017, 06:15:12 PM there are many variations dps-1200fb, dps-1200TB etc. Are all the same? also the breakout board fits all of them or there is specific designed breakout board for each variation? Stick with DPS-1200FB, it's the most suitable PSU for your needs, IMO. There is plenty of breakout boards available for this model.Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: QuintLeo on December 18, 2017, 08:09:44 PM About the first mod every reference 290(x) owner should do: http://i67.tinypic.com/2yni1c0.jpg After that is done and you still want more you need to start playing with bios. It will never be a powersaver but still a very profitable card to mine with. About the first "mod" any high-end blower model card with a bloody DVI connector should do is to pull that bloody airflow blocking mounting plate OFF (if it's in a riser rig and doesn't use the mounting holes part). Helps a lot on 1080 blower models too, though my ASUS 1080ti blower card doesn't have a DVI connector and doesn't really need the mod. Also helped noticeably on the one Sapphire "mining" card I got that had the congested "original" type mounting plate instead of the later models that opened up that mounting plate. "Cannot find any AMD adapters" is probably a DRIVER crash that took more than a fractional second to "recover". Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: QuintLeo on December 18, 2017, 08:16:43 PM Hi guys, I am looking to get some more gpus for mining. Currently I have 5x r9 390x, 1x 1080ti , 1x gtx980 and 5x r9 380. r9 290 4GB caught my attention because is pretty cheap on ebay and powerful, I read that has about 380 sol/s with overclocking in zec/zen/btg, is this true? The same hashrate I get also on my overclocked gtx980 so I am in a dilemma what gpu to get because also gtx980 is about the same price used but sucks in ethereum mining,so I'll have to stick with equihash algorithm. Can I achieve this hashrate with any r9 290 or some brands are voltage locked? also has anyone measured how much is exactly the power draw from an overclocked r9 290? I am looking to get the asus b250 mining expert to fill all 19 gpu slots with r9 290s but how many PSU will I need and how much wattage each? can I use this one? https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt (https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-BladeCenter-Netzteil-2450W-High-Efficiency-C7000-500242-001-488603-001/372154727230?hash=item56a6267b3e:g:df0AAOSw0W5aH~Kt) R9 290 is generally going to make you more money mining ETH, where it is a legitimate 29-30 Mhash card but will easily pull 250-300 watts per card to get to that hashrate in most cases. I'm not sure what kind of power usage they have mining ZEC as I never had mine doing that for more than a very short period of time during the EARLY ZEC days last year. 3 of those Bladecenter PS should be plenty, if you can find the right breakout boards for them to make them usable. 2 would probably be viable, they should be able to handle about 8 cards each PCI-E AND riser - depends on how big an ATX supply you use to run the MB itself and how many of the cards the ATX supply can run. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 18, 2017, 10:57:50 PM Quote ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters This error has nothing to do with the internet connection. Check for driver issues."Cannot find any AMD adapters" is probably a DRIVER crash that took more than a fractional second to "recover". That message, is throughout all of my logs. All the time. :/ Right now it's running 8 hours straight after completely disabling any windows updates from registry. Previously I had it, "ask me when to download". But that "ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters" message is still there all the time. Tomorrow if it keeps running overnight I''m gonna go back to the blockchain drivers. I'm also gonna pull an Ethernet cable to make my connection 100% stable. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: antantti on December 18, 2017, 11:32:42 PM I'm using 16.11.5 drivers for 290 series@W10, they just don't like drivers later than that. Basic DDU + reinstall should help, MSI afterburner also needs some settings to be enabled.
@QuintLeo Yes that plate is annoying, wonder why someone who disassembles ref cooler doesn't get rid of it. I mean, you can always put it back... Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 19, 2017, 12:04:24 AM I'm using 16.11.5 drivers for 290 series@W10, they just don't like drivers later than that. Basic DDU + reinstall should help, MSI afterburner also needs some settings to be enabled. @QuintLeo Yes that plate is annoying, wonder why someone who disassembles ref cooler doesn't get rid of it. I mean, you can always put it back... I installed Sapphire Trixx instead of MSI afterburner because I was thinking maybe that program was the problem. :/ Why don't use use the blockchain ones? Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: bassistas on December 19, 2017, 08:37:51 AM there are many variations dps-1200fb, dps-1200TB etc. Are all the same? also the breakout board fits all of them or there is specific designed breakout board for each variation? Stick with DPS-1200FB, it's the most suitable PSU for your needs, IMO. There is plenty of breakout boards available for this model.ok, so I am ready to order all the appropriate parts but as far as I understand, to make each of my rig work I need: a separate cheap 300w standard atx psu (about $20) just for the motherboard, a DPS-1200FB ($69) the cheapest I can find now on ebay (which is actually the DPS-1200FB-1, dont know if its the same) https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-1200W-Power-Supply-578322-B21-579229-001-570451-001-570451-101-DPS-1200FB-1/232579507890?hash=item3626d1a6b2:g:81IAAOSwqiVaHttv (https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-1200W-Power-Supply-578322-B21-579229-001-570451-001-570451-101-DPS-1200FB-1/232579507890?hash=item3626d1a6b2:g:81IAAOSwqiVaHttv) to power 4x r9 290/390 gpus on each rig, a breakout board ($8.19) and the pci-e cables ($29.99) . Or instead of the standard atx psu, a pico psu adapter ($49) to power the motherboard from the server psu. Am I correct? So, if I sum it all, the cost isn't so low as I initially thought. Its roughly $127. On newegg I can find some 1200W standard atx psus for the same amount of money and I will also have warranty. So whats the point to go for the server psu? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2J53KH0075 (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2J53KH0075) I need to setup about 16-17 rigs with 4x gpus each. So I am looking to keep the psu cost as low as possible but also to have reliability. Maybe there are some good server psu alternatives that are even cheaper and will do the job just fine or this is the cheapest I can go for my use? For example I just found this monster on ebay for less cost than the DPS-1200FB. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-M1000e-Server-2700W-Switching-Power-Supply-E2700P-00-TJJ3M/302565706413?epid=21005587000&hash=item4672524aad:g:sDUAAOSw8UZaMw92 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-M1000e-Server-2700W-Switching-Power-Supply-E2700P-00-TJJ3M/302565706413?epid=21005587000&hash=item4672524aad:g:sDUAAOSw8UZaMw92) With this one I could feed 2 or 3 rigs at the same time, But are there any breakout boards for this? I cant find any Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 19, 2017, 02:35:38 PM Yesterday the rig worked for 12 hours straight. New record, but still something happened while I was asleep.
04:55:12:889 1188 ETH: Share accepted (94 ms)! 04:55:12:889 1188 new buf size: 0 04:55:12:920 180c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:55:12:920 180c em hbt: 0, fm hbt: 47, 04:55:12:920 180c watchdog - thread 0 (gpu0), hb time 328 04:55:12:936 180c watchdog - thread 1 (gpu0), hb time 140 04:55:12:936 180c watchdog - thread 2 (gpu1), hb time 171 04:55:12:936 180c watchdog - thread 3 (gpu1), hb time 343 04:55:12:936 180c watchdog - thread 4 (gpu2), hb time 46 04:55:12:952 180c watchdog - thread 5 (gpu2), hb time 250 04:55:12:952 180c watchdog - thread 6 (gpu3), hb time 234 04:55:12:952 180c watchdog - thread 7 (gpu3), hb time 47 04:55:12:952 180c watchdog - thread 8 (gpu4), hb time 47 04:55:12:967 180c watchdog - thread 9 (gpu4), hb time 282 04:55:12:967 180c watchdog - thread 10 (gpu5), hb time 297 04:55:12:967 180c watchdog - thread 11 (gpu5), hb time 78 04:55:13:749 1188 ETH: checking pool connection... 04:55:13:749 1188 send: {"worker": "", "jsonrpc": "2.0", "params": [], "id": 3, "method": "eth_getWork"} 04:55:13:842 1188 got 248 bytes 04:55:13:842 1188 buf: {"id":3,"jsonrpc":"2.0","result":["0xdebce9c6359ad9a76860c3d61eeacfa9468dec29c19096eb8575a3b49123be79","0x9d2e3fc27256471aefd0ac060863e72fa7ca01ae239f872242f7c9797c1eb775","0x0112e0be826d694b2e62d01511f12a6061fbaec8bc02357593e70e52ba","0x4898b9"]} 04:55:13:842 1188 parse packet: 247 04:55:13:842 1188 ETH: job is the same 04:55:13:842 1188 new buf size: 0 04:55:17:530 180c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:55:18:077 2248 recv: 60 04:55:18:093 2248 srv pck: 59 04:55:19:718 2248 ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:55:19:718 2248 srv bs: 0 04:55:19:734 2248 sent: 190 04:55:22:343 180c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:55:23:765 1188 ETH: checking pool connection... 04:55:23:765 1188 send: {"worker": "", "jsonrpc": "2.0", "params": [], "id": 3, "method": "eth_getWork"} 04:55:24:578 1188 send: {"id":6,"jsonrpc":"2.0","method":"eth_submitHashrate","params":["0x7ce67c5", "0x000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000006b073ac5"]} 04:55:26:672 180c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:55:32:797 180c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:55:33:782 1188 ETH: checking pool connection... 04:55:34:688 1188 send: {"worker": "", "jsonrpc": "2.0", "params": [], "id": 3, "method": "eth_getWork"} 04:55:41:814 180c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters 04:55:48:362 1188 ETH: Stratum - socket send failed 10054, disconnect 04:55:59:738 180c ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters This is my bat. file: setx GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0 setx GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100 setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 setx GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 EthDcrMiner64.exe -epool eu1.ethermine.org:4444 -ewal 0xD2F39eC8d4161019428395a8136793BC4E3c9C33.Rig1 -epsw x BTW my meter came. Corsair link wattage indication is pretty accurate! Also I downloaded the new version of claymore. They say it fixes some stuff. Hope it helps. - fixed critical issues in remote management feature (attacker could crash miner even in read-only mode). - now miner supports up to #299 epoch. - in rare cases ADL API calls can hang, now watchdog checks it as well. Also, my old HP mouse died somehow. From the cold? I watched some more tutorials on how to setup claymore. I saw one guy that set the variables on system variables on windows. I did that too now. I downloaded and installed the beta drivers again. And I started it again 20 minutes ago. The "ADL: Cannot find any AMD adapters" thingy that was all over the place in all the logs, now it's gone. Haven't seen it once in these 20 minutes. I have a good feeling about this now. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 19, 2017, 05:50:03 PM So, if I sum it all, the cost isn't so low as I initially thought. Its roughly $127. On newegg I can find some 1200W standard atx psus for the same amount of money and I will also have warranty. So whats the point to go for the server psu? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2J53KH0075 (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2J53KH0075) Server PSUs are the best choice when you are able to DIY and source cheap components. A fully DIY wired PSU w/Pico will cost ~85-100$ in material (DPS-1200FB), labor cost - YMMV.Frankly DIY seems to be not your case, so better stick with ATX power supplies. For example I just found this monster on ebay for less cost than the DPS-1200FB. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-M1000e-Server-2700W-Switching-Power-Supply-E2700P-00-TJJ3M/302565706413?epid=21005587000&hash=item4672524aad:g:sDUAAOSw8UZaMw92 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-M1000e-Server-2700W-Switching-Power-Supply-E2700P-00-TJJ3M/302565706413?epid=21005587000&hash=item4672524aad:g:sDUAAOSw8UZaMw92) You'll find cheap breakout boards only for DPS-1200FB and the likes. Because they are Chinese.There exist breakout boards for beefier power supplies - DPS-2000BB, IBM 2980W, etc. They cost >40 USD. Link: http://www.gekkoscience.com/products/IBM2K_board.html I will reiterate - if you feel unsure to modify server PSUs, go for decent ATX PSUs. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: bassistas on December 19, 2017, 06:36:16 PM So, if I sum it all, the cost isn't so low as I initially thought. Its roughly $127. On newegg I can find some 1200W standard atx psus for the same amount of money and I will also have warranty. So whats the point to go for the server psu? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2J53KH0075 (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2J53KH0075) Server PSUs are the best choice when you are able to DIY and source cheap components. A fully DIY wired PSU w/Pico will cost ~85-100$ in material (DPS-1200FB), labor cost - YMMV.Frankly DIY seems to be not your case, so better stick with ATX power supplies. For example I just found this monster on ebay for less cost than the DPS-1200FB. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-M1000e-Server-2700W-Switching-Power-Supply-E2700P-00-TJJ3M/302565706413?epid=21005587000&hash=item4672524aad:g:sDUAAOSw8UZaMw92 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-M1000e-Server-2700W-Switching-Power-Supply-E2700P-00-TJJ3M/302565706413?epid=21005587000&hash=item4672524aad:g:sDUAAOSw8UZaMw92) You'll find cheap breakout boards only for DPS-1200FB and the likes. Because they are Chinese.There exist breakout boards for beefier power supplies - DPS-2000BB, IBM 2980W, etc. They cost >40 USD. Link: http://www.gekkoscience.com/products/IBM2K_board.html I will reiterate - if you feel unsure to modify server PSUs, go for decent ATX PSUs. modification is not a problem, I have also a friend who is electronics technician and he can do the work for me for free. The problem is that pico psu is as expensive as a separate cheap psu for the motherboard and also the pci-e cables/plugs for the breakout boards also cost a lot. Do you also have any source where I can get just the 6+2 plugs and the wires separately cheaper than the ready made ones from ebay? For 17 rigs this will cut down a lot of the cost. Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: Victorio on December 19, 2017, 07:26:52 PM modification is not a problem, I have also a friend who is electronics technician and he can do the work for me for free. The problem is that pico psu is as expensive as a separate cheap psu for the motherboard and also the pci-e cables/plugs for the breakout boards also cost a lot. Do you also have any source where I can get just the 6+2 plugs and the wires separately cheaper than the ready made ones from ebay? For 17 rigs this will cut down a lot of the cost. To be clear what means DIY'ing a server PSU: you have to cut wire into into cords, crimp all terminals (and solder - for better contact), slap on 6/6+2 connectors and solder the cabling to PSU's output, or use breakout with terminal blocks.Parts can be bought cheap from: China (terminals, connectors, PicoPSU) and the electrical supply store (wire). Time wise, it takes from 2 to 8 hours to fully DIY one PSU, depending on the options. I understand your friend wants to help you, but modding 17 PSUs - that's rather part-time job, than friendly help ;D Doing everything wisely decreases the total cost by a good margin. PM me if you need specific build details and purchase instructions. Tip required 8) Title: Re: Setting up my first *ghetto* mining rig!! Post by: RealKariverson on December 20, 2017, 01:44:29 PM Good news. Tonight the rig did not shut down. It's still going. Almost 24 hours now. So hopefully I did solve the problem!! :D ETH price keeps going up. I must expand soon :p
|
