Bitcoin Forum

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned through legitimate sources


Is Bitcoin a giant Ponzi Scheme?

BITCOIN is more of a 'chain-letter', google that term,

PONZI sold stamps, which were tangible, ponzi ( the man ) told ppl to HODL their stamps and they would get 100% ROI per month, ... so that element is very similar

A chain-letter, or block-chain, is where you get you friend to join, and they get friends, and then the BTC goes from 10,000 BTC's for a pizza, to one btc for $10k USD

But PONZI was just one guy, today with BTC you have 100's if not 1,000's of criminals running exchanges and websites all scamming people, thus BTC is a chain-letter on steroids

***

These things never end well, but the block-chain is here to stay :)

I read that chain-letters are illegal in the United States :o

Bitcoin can not be attributed to the Ponzi scheme, because it does not conform to such a scheme and is not a fraud. Bitcoin is to some extent a financial bubble, but not a Ponzi scheme. Some properties of the bubble bubble have due to the fact that, being unsecured, it grows in price by increasing demand for it, and demand is growing, because its price is growing and people are investing in it, hoping to profit from its growth in value.

I have been hearing a lot of people asking this very same question. To be honest with you, I am worried right now. The prices are increasing at a too rapid pace.

In order for a Ponzi scheme to work, you have to accumulate more and more users who are referred into the system by existing users, because the value of the entire scheme is based on the number of members in the system. Bitcoin has a certain demand and supply mechanism as well, since it's a financial instrument, but the success of cryptocurrencies is not necessarily based on the number of people in the system.

Of course it is...if you look at some of my old posts I go into great detail if you want something to focus on when taking a dump.  That said, people on this forum refuse to accept the fact that lots of people around the world make decent incomes (on a 3rd world scale) investing in Ponzi schemes.  They just know to get out as early as possible.  Ponzi scheme operators know that the longer a Ponzi goes and the bigger it becomes, the more money that they will make...so many go for months or years and can be spread across continents as friends convince their friends to join.  If there aren't at least a few people cashing out and bragging about their profits to others the scheme would come to an end.  Instead, someone that cashed out with a few thousand $ profit now is a walking advertisement to recruit 10-15 more people who put in probably double what was taken out.  Again, this can go on for years and can grow in complexity.  The person or persons that originated the Ponzi could have themselves cashed out, died, etc and passed the "keys" onto a new group that only knows to keep the thing going.  Sound familiar?

Social security programs and pension funds are some of the largest Ponzi systems going that dwarf all of the others.  In order to legitimize their Ponzi schemes, governments do everything in their power to crack down on anything that they cannot control, sooner or later.

The above definition is amazingly simple but due to the lack of English on this forum this thread will be full of angry shitposters that either cannot read, understand, or otherwise accept reality.

In the true spirit of Libertarianism, I don't see a Ponzi scheme as anything more than gambling....especially if there is no central authority (like a Madoff or Government) lying to get people to invest or forcing them with violence or prison if they do not participate.  That said, I'll give way to the shitposting vermin and their temper tantrums....

They used to be super common, but I'm sure the US Postal Service was forced to classify them as a fraud, and that would make using the post a felony.

PPL used to use the 'post' now they use the INTERNET :)

Perhaps what's needed is US-POSTAL-POLICE, or a US-INTERNET POLICE Force is keep people safe from fraud on the internet :) ??

"The US Dollar, the US Gov are all Ponzi schemes" - Bernie Madoff ( king of ponzis of our time )

Hell yes, thus nothing wrong with the BTC ponzi, other than uncle sam isn't running the show, but that's why CME-GS is now going to take ownership of BTC.

Funny Madoff went to jail for robbing brother zionists, but normally none of the ponzi bankers in USA ever go to jail :)

Well once PPL are hurt, and they will be U can be certain ppl will go to jail over Bitcoin,

Nothing will be worse than the whining and crying of millions of millenials who lost all their money :)

BTC the code is as solid as a rock.

Just like "PONZI", nobody blamed the 'stamp', they blamed the MAN.

The problem with BTC is that there is no face for ZOG to portray is the 'bogey-man'

BITCOIN is just code, and its really cool, just like torrent, and it work peer2peer

Problem is all the assholes who have turned it into a money tree.

***

IDIOTS will get hurt when this CHAIN-LETTER implodes, and then comes NEW GOV Regulation, which we don't want.

In the short time U idiots keep counting your faux wealth, but the end game here will be to REGULATE the INTERNET and all software crypto.

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Well there are thousands  SHILLS here making innocent IDIOTS buy into this shit,

There is ton's of people daily here talking about bounty's and getting 300 friends on board the good ship ponzi-coin

GOV is just sitting and waiting for this thing to IMPLODE and then step in to make ppl right again :)

A little SELF POLICING and Reality Check would be a good thing.

...

Yes, as a Libertarian you do have the right to sever your own penis, but sadly the idiot with the knife tends to want society to make him good again,

There is no caveat, like "Warning Things don't go UP forever"

The manta is BITCOIN to the moon, become a millionaire in a year, never work again, ... blah-blah

All the shills will be held responsible, including the likes of this forum and its owners; Study history

When the TULIP finally did collapse ppl went to jail and were hung, randomly by gov to make good for the hurt.

...

Historically 'south sea bubble' is closer to BTC its a stock in offshore colonizing the new world and its stock like BTC went ASTRO for years, and anybody that questioned it was a pariah, just like now with BTC.

Typically, Ponzi schemes require an initial investment and promise well-above-average returns. {Nobody is giving any

guarantee of any above average returns}  Promoters of Ponzi schemes will pay high returns to attract new investors and

entice current investors to invest more money. {There is no promoters in Bitcoin, paying anyone high returns} Promoters also

try to minimize withdrawals by offering new plans to investors where money cannot be withdrawn for a certain period of time

in exchange for higher returns. {In Bitcoin you can withdraw whenever you like}  ;D

Every minute somebody on this forum ppl are posting story's about how they're getting RICH on trading BTC, tokens, and shit-coins.

BTC is NOT a PONZI, its more like SOUTH-SEA-BUBBLE, which was a stock, that went ASTRO for years and EVERYBODY got on board, and eventually everybody went BUST.

You're just an a$$hole trying to talk it down.

You should read up on bitcoin and why and how it came into existance before uttering such crap.

The top 10 or even top 1% of people that hold bitcoin aren't going to sell. So even if you get some correction, this is never going to be long term. And all the smart ones here only invested money they can afford to loose.

BTW : are you a member of the govs or banksters ?

That's the genius of the biggest Ponzi scenarios....they are completely voluntary.  The problem with what you are saying is that you are trying to pick ONE of probably thousands of possible permutations or variations of the Ponzi and cast it in stone as the be all and end all of how the rest work.  I've seen plenty of Ponzi schemes in my lifetime that don't really require an initial investment since their friends have already suggested an amount needed to get a good return.  Common sense dictates that the more one invests the greater their potential return.  The "minimum" sells itself.  I've also seen schemes that pay out based on a formula of new participants and other factors that they can modify at will.  Most of the time if someone is making 2-3% on their money on average per month they tend to not question it.  As far as promoters trying to minimize withdrawals...this is where greed takes over and HODL becomes the norm.  Few, if any cash out more than their minimum unless there is an emergency...and most smart Ponzi operators have large special reserves for that...in the extremely rare case that they need them.  The smart option would be just to limit the numbers of new participants to make them want to pour even more money in when it's finally their turn.

Am just sick and tired of hearing this question, people think that how in legal ways, you can make such profit in such a short time period, well its not an investment plan. It will be a currency which we will use for regular use in the future.

I guess you are fairly new to bitcoin and you find bitcoin as a ponzi scheme, ponzi tends to scam people its investor promising large profit when you invest.
Bitcoin is not owned by a company nor a person, yes it will give you large profit when you invest, the only way you lose money is that if you are not a good trader.

I've read the white paper.  I've listened to countless hours of the original developers explain it years ago.

LOL - the top 10 or top 1% aren't going to sell?  Wow you are greedy SOB aren't you?  LOL  Jack Ma recently said something to the effect that anyone with more than $10 million is asking for trouble and problems to plague them for life.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone shares such an extreme level of greed.

Working for gov or banks?  That's funny since they won't warn you on such a personal level.  I wish I got something for killing time.

You're a lot dumber than I even thought you guys are.

This is pure strategie from govs and banksters. They hate the fact they cannot get this under their control and earn money from it.
The value in bitcoin is in the fact that it is and remains a store of value and cannot be taxed. A lot of richer people that bought in did it for this reason. The top 1% will not trade to fiat anytime soon because they know they will get taxed. They will wait untill companies and so fort will start to trade in bitcoin. After that the only thing the govs can do is try to forbid to use it as a currency, but the store of value will remain.

BTW : the fact we didn't hear you guys when it was going up and up, explains it all to well. You're just capitalizing on a small downward correction in the hope that more will follow and you can get bitcoin as low as possible.
Only the stupid will follow.

Most people that will admit that BTC is a form of Ponzi scheme are NOT new to it.  In fact some that I know studied the code and are thinking of doing their own version someday.  This "you must be new" argument is not only silly but it's backwards.  With time/age comes wisdom.  With youth comes naiveté.

Ok...if you say so  ::)   Notice how the well-crafted Ponzi attracts the lesser intelligent among us that fight for it with a fervor greater than religion.

You're right about one thing...they do hate it and will eventually control it...or a future form of it. 

You obviously weren't around in the beginning.  It was intended to be a currency...not a store of wealth.  No one on the early dev team talked like people do today.

Just because you didn't hear from me doesn't mean I wasn't following it.  I only showed up when I saw it morph into the bastardization of its original intended purpose and there was a reason for me to say something now that the only thing that drives it is greed and stupidity...that you clearly have no personal moral issue against following and shilling.

I will make my own analysis thank you.

Bitcoin is intended to be a currency, correct, but with a comparison to a gold backed currency. So it is a store of value just as gold is. It's not because some of the bigger holders of gold reserve try to manipulate it that it still isn't.

Succes with whatever you choose, but I remain positive.

What are your serious mate? Your rank is not a newbie mate i think you know what is bitcoin. This is a currency and not a company who offer PONZI scheme, this is a legit digital currency no one controlling it.


I am agree with you mate, digital currency is like other currency that we can spend anywhere the only different is we can not used bitcoin in offline transaction yet but bitcoin now has many uses you can invest in PONZI (avoid this), investing in other kind of investment but it was pure online. Yes be positive to this currency and your life will change to better in the future.

U Notice that too? ehh?

What I see on this forum is ZERO percent interest in technology, or programming, zero interest in morality, zero interest in philosophy, zero interest in anarchism,

It's like the entire BTC eco-system is just driven by moronic day-traders, most likely not even human, but bots that are designed, to keep fresh blood entering the btc-ponzi ( I hate that term, its a south-sea bubble )


The only common interest on the forum is reducing the fee's for day trading btc.

Go back and read the 1st page...everything I wrote before you address me and talk to me like I'm a moron.  No, no you didn't...it's like I can hear your bullshit already gurgling in your mind.  You people are unreal in your assumptions.

What are your serious mate? Your rank is not a newbie mate i think you know what is bitcoin. This is a currency and not a company who offer PONZI scheme, this is a legit digital currency no one controlling it.


Seriously, 100 ppl control 80%  of BTC, U think they don't work together? U think they weren't commonly involved since begin, u think they don't collude on pump&dump of price?

One company controls most mining, a dozen companys control the exchanges, which are just GOV tax fronts

Now GOLDman-Sachs will control the price in london with the new CME

Keep telling your self that this BTC is crypto-anarchy, that Satoshi was not really a ZOG NSA icon all along,...

Good arguments, but U know your blowing in the wind with these ppl on this forum, the average holder of BTC has 0.05 btcs, thus they haven't a clue about how a real millionaire thinks,

Certainly Jack Ma knows the situation, anybody that has +$1M will be a target his entire life, the BTC is a public ledger, which means every criminal or gov on earth knows they can kidnap U, since dawn of man, humans hid their wealth, they kept valuables out of site, ... they didn't display to gov tax collector their net-worth, then along comes BTC which is a public-ledger for all to see,

Great idea, the rich know, and its only matter of time before all addresses are linked to real-id, and resold, just like everything else, its all high value, to anybody that wants to screw 'rich ppl'

MY biggest complaint about BTC is lack of anonymity, and nobody cares cuz they only care about 'getting rich'.

You can't even call Bitcoin a ponzi scheme from your definition alone. Bitcoin isn't run by any operators or organizations, and while everyone does benefit from more investments, no single entity can control where it goes. Bitcoin cannot even be categorized as a scam, because no one is fooling anyone, and there are no inner workings that result in people's money being stolen. It's an investment whose control rests on its holders' collective shoulders.

Really, if anyone calls Bitcoin a ponzi, they don't know what they're talking about.

BITCOIN is a software, PONZI was a person, so U can't even compare apples&oranges here.

PONZI misdirected the use of postal stamps, but nobody calls for the banning of stamps.

1,000's of assholes, maybe 10's of 1,000's of shills are pumping BITCOIN and trying to convince NEWBS to buy BTC with their credit card,

BITCOIN is not a PONZI, but all the exchanges, and mining-pools, all the infrastructure of BTC is ran by common criminals.

It's a Ponzi because it was created by an individual (as the story goes) and then further developed by a group.  Those that got in on it early were able to pre-mine hundreds of thousands if not millions of coins.  Day 0 was when they said so...and so the timeline began.  No one back then was keeping score.  At this point they let it self-regulate and grow slowly.  Those that had easy access to such a large volume of coins knew that if they promoted the concept on Libertarian podcasts and forums they would wind up with a self-perpetuating Ponzi scheme.  They couldn't care less at this point (2009-2011) what happened to the remaining coins that could be earned by mining and then sold P2P or on exchanges.  All that mattered to them then as it does now (those that haven't cashed out) is that each coin is its own store of value.  It doesn't produce any goods, service, or function other than it being declared worth what people are willing to pay for it...and payment can be in literally any form, but ideally, more to a new buyer than it did to the seller that bought or mined it in the first place.

What you fail to see is the sheer genius of the founders.  They did a "hit and run".  They built a system that became self-perpetuating by Libertarians with a vision of government free money.  They built a system that everyone was asking for at the time but few people could describe how it would or could work.  And once it was built and they got their "cut", it took on a life of its own when people decided it was worth something tangible.

It's so simple it's painful for me to try and explain it since I only end up overexplaining and more or less repeating myself.

But all that matters is that a group of people spent a lot of time and money building the perfect hamster wheel.  All it took from that point on was the hamsters of the world to find it and declare it something to covet and spend their time on.  No one seems to mind that millions of coins from the beginning cannot be accounted for.  We're talking billions of dollars to build the ultimate automated Ponzi.  These people thought of practically everything.  What they didn't think of they knew wouldn't be an issue for many years...like it is becoming an issue now.  But again, they made their money and are long gone.  One is even the subject of legend....Satoshi.

Isn't everyone saying that automation is the future?  Well in some ways it's already here.

Whenever an individual coin is sold, it PAYS RETURNS to its investors from NEW CAPITAL PAID to REVALUE the coin (created by the operators and released onto the world long ago...in short, the COIN becomes its own automated operator!) by NEW INVESTORS....rather than profit earned (BTC doesn't EARN or PRODUCE ANYTHING) through legitimate sources.

You are incorrect.  If we can dissect the definition of a Ponzi scheme word for word or even close to it so that it matches the underlying template of the system and apply it to BTC we have completed the logical proof.

You and everyone that stomps their foot and insists that they are correct without making an effort to prove their assertions are the ones that don't know what you are talking about...since you can't PROVE it in any convincing manner whatsoever other than your group think or pointing to people you believe to be smarter than you as authorities...that offer no proofs either.

I will prove every word that I say.  Why won't you....or everyone else like you?

Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme, no doubt about it, although some people presents it in such a way..Bitcoin is a simple digital currency which is being manipulated by big investors to move the price up and down in their favor and the common man just cannot predict what will be its future and price in the coming days. 

Here's proof that forum rank and status mean nothing when it comes to reading comprehension.  Why do you post if you don't even bother to read this thread seeing as how you are absolutely clueless as to the arguments put forth that I am POSITIVE that you cannot disprove using logic, reason, and common sense.

Nope, the basic intention of the Ponzi scheme is to scam others and when it comes to Bitcoin, it was invented in order to solve the real world problems. Even the unknown founder is not taking any benefit of the price rallies and I don't think that Bitcoin has anything to do with the Ponzi scheme. However, I can pinpoint 1000 scams that are taking place under the name of Bitcoin and the real reason for it is the unawareness of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.

Did you back read my proofs on BTC being a Ponzi scheme at the most fundamental level?  Define "scam" relative to what I posted.  It may very well lead to real world solutions to real world problems, but many people positioned themselves to become obscenely rich and completely unaccountable for their creation after the fact.  You cannot possibly know the extent of who benefitted and who did not since a large % of coins cannot be accounted for.  Ponzi schemes that rely on BTC is a distraction and not the topic of this thread.

The day will come that 'bitcoin' will have negative connotations, today to me it means software I 'git' from github.com, to other's it means a magic key they with their credit card,

Ponzi was a man that sold stamps and promised 100% ROI per month, if you held the stamps (HODL)

Much of BITCOIN today is religious just like Scientology, its all MLM marketing ( bounty ), the entire infrastructure of BTC is fraud, but tell them so, and its like telling a Scientologist that L Ron Hubbard was CIA.

The PERFECT scam, because nobody can be held accountable, there can be no PONZI=SATOSHI, because in all likelihood he never existed

What is known is that since 2010 BTC has been an orchestrated SCAM, a RICO investigation will be called for, once the pain of loss of millions of people all over the world demand a hearing and bring the BTC billionaires to court.

I can't disagree more, bitcoin is not a ponzi scheeme. This is just another thread on that same theme that was discussed so many times before.
I think that such theories without any solid ground and proof are spreading people who don't know anything how the bitcoin is functioning and haven't succeeded in bitcoin and instead of profit accumulated losses so this is some kind of their revenge. Bitcoin is present for many years now and it's been proved many times that is legit, it's not involved in any kind of scam as a project, only those run by individuals but everything in this world could be misused and so bitcoin too.

Yet another lazy shill that is incapable of back reading this thread seeing that, NO, this hasn't been discussed before in the way that it's presented here because if it was, you'd have at least an iota of substance and/or a rebuttal other than blanket denial and flimsy excuses why you refuse to think for yourself.  Assumers give me tumors.

Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme.

1000 people control 50% of it.

In October 2010 Bitcoin was $0.06 look it up. Or check out April 2010 when bitcoin was $0.003. Yes the same coins you are buying for over $15,000 each were less than a penny 7 years ago. Is that realistic at all? Of course not. The price is so impractical

The artificial run up has been fueled by crime, tax evasion, drug deals, money laundering, illegal gambling, prostitution, corrupt governments, as well as a vulnerable pool of investors that include millennials and people in third world countries.

Crypto itself is really cool. And the future of money. But unfortunately bitcoin and altcoins are a giant scheme. In my honest opinion now is a great time to cash out and get ready to bet on the downfall.

The concept of bitcoin, does not fit into the definition of a ponzi scheme. A ponzi scheme, is like a give and take situation which involves a third party. But bitcoin on the other hand has to do with an individual investing directly and getting returns when there is either an increase or a decrease in the currency value.

I am 100% sure it is not. Sure, it does seem like a perfect rip-off but I doubt it. If someone made it as a Ponzi scheme I doubt he would wait so long and he could not predict that the price will be so much high in a few years.. We probably would have been ripped off earlier. Those who say Bitcoin is being controlled by 1 person or more are dead wrong.

FACTS:

  

• Nearly 3 million bitcoins were generated in 2009 alone — 13% of the total number of bitcoins allowed!!!
• Bitcoin was worth less than one penny by April 2010
• By June 2011, bitcoins skyrocketed 9667-fold from a value of $0.003 to $29
• 1000 People control 50% of the bitcoins!!! Scary!
• Bitcoin is 5,000,000x as expensive to buy now as it was 7 years ago
• Bitcoins price is fueled by crime, greed, gambling, corrupt governments, greed, drugs, tax evaders, and uniformed investors
• Crypto technology is really cool but bitcoin is too expensive

Many people are putting that idea, that bitcoin is just like a giant pyramiding scheme. Well, that's their idea about bitcoin what else can we do with that right? Bitcoin really is a good coin/asset or whatever but all I can say is that those people are only hindrance to us who are pursuing in bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

The scariest and craziest part is we really don't know who is behind it. It could be a crazy group of anarchists or a Hitler type character trying for world domination through currency control. We really don't know who is controlling the price or who is holding the majority of the coins.

Ponzi scheme based on that fact that you need to join a friend to that to get the profit, but bitcoin doesn't, it's price doesn't consist in the value of investments 100%, but more in demand. While there is demand bitcoin will never fail. And AT&T to that in the head of bitcoin there are no any special guy which in one moment will take all the money, close the firm and disappear.

I wouldn't say that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. As you said, the owner should earn the most. Every single person here can check if anyone has moved BTC from the first addresses on which are bitcoins mined from 50 BTC blocks. I think that Bitcoin is a great technology which can destroy banks. That is why many politicians and bank owners try to discourage ordinary people from investing in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. They consider is as a huge threat.

I don't think so. In a ponzi scheme, you have to recruit someone in the system to gain profit, in bitcoin, you don't have to that thing. You don't have to sell anything or get many people to join as many as possible in bitcoin. Bitcoin is more of a invisible currency that you can use to buy things, but since its invisible, its value is unstable. It might be gone tomorrow or it might increase  its value the next day.

Bitcoin started as a very good, bright and rebellious idea, however time and people who are wanting more power and money changed Bitcoin in something that in my oppinion never should have happened, Bitcoin increased in price yes, but people controlling that price are not our friends, wall street investing now in bitcoin manipulating price heavily, miners they only want to fork it and get all the money in their own favor.

Actually a big part of the success Coinbase has had is because it gives a $10 bonus to both the referrer and the referee so its basically handing out $20 every time some gets a "friend to join". Coinbase represents a huge portion of bitcoin sale.

The initial investors got their coins for $0.003 each and now they are selling them to the next sucker in line for $15,000+ USD. The price has gotten way unrealistic. Its gone up 5,000,000 times the initial amount in such little time. Strictly based on demand. People are getting their free $10, they are buying bitcoin to gamble and do illegal things, they are telling their friends how much bitcoin is going up, they aren't selling because of ridiculous fees, and resources are being wasted to "mine" these coins and becoming more and more expensive to do so which is all driving up the price to an absurd level.

I think Bitcoin doesn't have much room to grow once people realize that so much of the coin is already in circulation and controlled by such few.

Look at everyone who did faucets or signature campaigns. Look at all the crypto channels on YouTube. Everyone is making money by referring everyone else and getting more and more people to buy into it. If its not a Ponzi Scheme, is structured exactly like one. And the 5,000,000x returns that the initial investors are cashing in on will eventually cause the price of Bitcoin to crash. When you realize how high the price actually is, and you compare the 2010 price of $0.003 to the pricetag now of over $15,000, you will start to understand how scary the increase is.

• Nearly 3 million bitcoins were generated in 2009 alone — 13% of the total number of bitcoins allowed!!!

So what?

• Bitcoin was worth less than one penny by April 2010

Because only a small group of people knew of its existence. Nobody was advertising it in the media.
What about those companies that started in the garage? How much was Bill Gates worth when he started his company? Most likely less than the market cap of Bitcoin in 2010.

• By June 2011, bitcoins skyrocketed 9667-fold from a value of $0.003 to $29

Great. Somebody finally started buying. Exchanges have opened, Bitcoin became widely available.

• 1000 People control 50% of the bitcoins!!! Scary!

And in case of USD even less people control 100% of the currency, currently measured in trillions.

• Bitcoin is 5,000,000x as expensive to buy now as it was 7 years ago

Because it started from nothing. You can't compare something that was being traded by a group of nerds to a stock that goes public when the company is well known.
How does it contribute to your ponzi scheme theory?

• Bitcoins price is fueled by crime, greed, gambling, corrupt governments, greed, drugs, tax evaders, and uniformed investors

Add greed once more to make it stand out.
And aliens, don't forget about aliens!

• Crypto technology is really cool but bitcoin is too expensive

Said people at $100, $1000, $10000 and they will keep saying this when we go past $20k

It was all a scheme, I used to read bitcoin magazine

Buying crypto on coinbase up in the limousine

Then it crashed on down

Ponzi Scheme and the feds came around

If Bitcoin is a giant ponzi scheme, then it is probably one of the best in history. What's similar of crypto currency to that of ponzi scheme would be both will rely on confidence.  Pumps and resilience increases the level of confidence. When there are more people believing it has value than not, is that really a ponzi any more?

Bitcoin's value comes from community consensus of value and its technical feature to support that, like scarcity and consistency. If you really want to call it a ponzi, then remember the other famous ponzi before bitcoin - Gold.

This will go down as the greatest Ponzi scheme in history, yes

And it will all be anonymous and everyone will be SOL when the crash happens. Greed can only drive the price so high. The downslope is coming  :o

I think no Ponzi scheme will survive more than 3 years because it is a scam but bitcoin already 8 years and still kicking. BTC is not a scam but only the bad people where using bitcoin to scam people thru types of scam like Ponzi scheme and HYIP. BTC is a freewill investments in which no one will ask you to sign in and give your coins to them for them to keep because we are the one who keeps our bitcoin from the very start you purchase it.

If Bitcoin was started in the USA it would already be squashed imho

The Ponzi scheme has questionable origins and has spread around third world countries and to millennials

Bernie Madoff kept it up for longer than 8 years and his version was nowhere near the automated genius of BTC.  Like I said on page 2, the operators made their money and disappeared at the beginning leaving behind something that practically runs itself.  They might not have expected to make billions but even several hundred million $ is still easily worth it to the geniuses behind it that created a whole new level of Ponzi.  Without the internet it would be impossible.

What so many of you people fail to understand is that all that matters is intent and an understanding of how human greed would take over and do all of the work for them.

And seriously...cut the bullshit.  There are dozens of 100 page threads that are dedicated to recruiting or convincing people to get involved in this non-currency (admitted by most of you) "store of wealth".  YOU ALL are the operators to your own individual decentralized Ponzi that is each coin.

"How do I convince my friends/family"

"What do we do with people who don't want to join"

"Teach Bitcoin in schools!"

"We should advertise on TV!"

and on and on and on...probably 70% or more threads on this forum are all discussing strategies to get more people involved....and almost EVERYONE on these threads DO NOT CARE that those that they recruit will not use BTC as a currency.  "It's a store of wealth!".  Ponzi ponzi ponzi...and tons of low IQ's that cannot see the forest from the trees...or simply DO NOT CARE.

Ponzi scam is earlier people get paid from new people join.
But in bitcoin, we dont get anything if new people join. The only run is the price.
I am not expect to explain this but i am sure blockchain is not ponzi.

To the OP - I don't know if it will help or not but these shitposters like the above only read (more like skim) the original post and ignore everything that follows.  Just a suggestion but I think it's in your best interest to update your original post with more of the proofs contained within the thread and/or other useful info posted that pokes holes in all of these brain-dead cookie cutter excuse replies before they start.

although I don't know more about Ponzi scheme and I do not agree if bitcoin is part of Ponzi because as the investment, bitcoin works good and it gives us the opportunity to make money. maybe people can said like that is because they don't learn anything in bitcoin so they give out a statement that said bitcoin is a giant Ponzi scheme. many of us is making money from bitcoin and no one said that bitcoin is a Ponzi until now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvYeLxMKN8

The above link should be a sticky on this forum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7luAHdv61k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOw15zYwmfM


Some good bitcoin videos from Crypto Daily and Trader of Futures. Explaining a bit about the Ponzi Scheme, the Bubble and why the price of Bitcoin might be a problem.

With your logiv then it might mean that anytime soon it might collapse due to the fact that othr investors kight shy away forom it due to its lhigh prices. However i agree with some of also the others here in regards that it is not a ponzi but rather more of an investment type of earning koney

I hope it's not since all around the world people are getting more active and dedicated.

Well classically bubbles end when shoe-shine boys and village idiots are talking about 'bitcoin'

It's all based on greater fool theory, and by reading this forum, the greatest fools have been found,

Finding new fools to invest in BTC, is problematic at best.

Agreed. I cashed out my initial capital from BTC. Not trying to speculate on something with no cash, no employees, no real estate, and produces NO INCOME.

There is no person or a company that controls bitcoin so it is not a ponzi scheme. There is no pyramid and referrals so there is no reason to be a scam. People are just investing because they want to. The cause of making it look like a bubble are those who panic selling for profitand it greatly affects the bitcoin reputation again.

I highly doubt you can call Bitcoin a Ponzi Scheme. I'd rather say you are way away from what Bitcoin truly is, and that's a revolution!

back read this thread and then come back here and say the above again since it's clear that you have not thought this through like most noobs around here

Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme in the sense that bitcoin is an asset it have a value just like gold and other real estate. A ponzi is a scheme has no value and is a scam who are out to DUP their members. Bitcoin is a secondary currency and it value in the exchange market is rising on daily basis. You can use bitcoin to pay for goods and services.

Here is the best answer, it might be, or it might not be, thanks might as well lock the thread I took care of it

You are absolutely right, we cannot say bitcoin a ponzi scheme it does not exists to scam people or users. It is a digital currency were we can use online it is not use to fraud. Though also most users interest in bitcoin to invest because of price increasing.

It's parabolic since summer, experts call this a bubble, and they never end well.

U can deny reality if you wish, but reality will still run you over like a deer in your headlights on the road

BTC is a HUGE pyramid scam of bringing in newbs with bountys', MLM campaigns from 100's of exchanges,

Everything about BITCOIN SMELLS like the 'historical shit' of all great bubbles before

The defense of BITCOIN here by morons is like listening to scientologists defend their faith and LRon Hubbard

Ponzi was a person, BITCOIN is software.

What we can say is that 1,000's or PONZI-ACTORS are orchestrating a HUGE fraud in order rob millions of world citizens using BITCOIN as the conduit.

PONZI traded stamps, and nobody blamed 'stamps' for his fraud, they blamed Ponzi, BITCOIN is anonymous so no person can be blamed this is why every criminal on earth is involved the "BITCOIN FRAUD BUBBLE"

There fixed it for you.

Say it isn't true locked the thread??

BITCOIN SCAM 2018 Would even Make PONZI & MADOFF blush, there fixed it for you.

PONZI was a local Boston operation, BITCOIN-BUBBLE is the worlds first "South Sea Bubble" mania to make the entire world insane all at once.

Another complete bull shit argument, do you know what a ponzi scheme is, when they sell you a product or a tree model how in the world is bitcoin a ponzi scheme, no one tells you to invest money, you do it for your personal greed and then come up with false argument that it's a ponzi, this is often spread by centralized banker's to keep Bitcoin enthusiastic away from it, stop falling prey to it.

The bankers OWN BITCOIN, why would they tell U not get involved in the 'ponzi'

The entire narrative of BTC is that it is anarchist, crypto, and anti-banker when in fact it is owned 100% by GOLDMAN-SACKS, aka ZOG IMF-BIS INTL BANKING, truth be told the entire narrrative by people like U is the big lie of BTC.

It can be and can be not at the same time. I don't know. But I know that there are some sites and schemes which use bitcoin for their ponzi activity, pay, start to earn BTC, join a friend and you will get some plus. I am trying to stay away from such suggestions, but believe me, internet is full of them and other kinds of scam. I decided to concentrate on crypto trading, to me it's the most honest and independed way to make money, there you are your own boss.

Seems to be a recurring theme with all these shit threads saying negative things about bitcoin. They’re always created by newbies, so OP I ask you, are you butthurt that you missed the train & have no coins or does a whale pay you to try & get moron’s to sell after seeing your shit posts?

Bitcoin is not a Giant Ponzi Scheme, because it is glaring clear that Bitcoin as a cryptocurrency has no link or connection with any thing Ponzi. There are a lot of people who have actually benefited from investment of bitcoin who today are millionaires. And presently all investors of bitcoin are daily seeing the price value of  Bitcoin rising  and the price increasing exponentially. It is not so with ponzi scheme that tends to collect money from the new members to pay  the old members and make promises that can not be meet.Bitcoin is a crypto crrency that is worldly accepted for transactions, tradings, investments..... etc while ponzi scheme is widely condemn.

The arguments against bitcoin being a Ponzi Scheme are laughable.

Coin the term however you want. Bitcoin is the largest global scheme in the history of the world

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bitcoin-is-a-ponzi-scheme-and-it-will-collapse-like-one/ar-BBGCigr

 "Ponzi schemes promise investors returns above what real investments yield, but the Ponzi scheme operator does little, if any, actual investing. Instead, cash from new investors is paid to earlier investors to maintain the illusion that the scheme is earning real profits.

All Ponzi schemes eventually collapse, of course, when sufficient amounts can no longer be raised from new investors to pay off earlier investors.

The same will occur with bitcoin and all other cyber currencies, except perhaps the ICOs. Investors will pull back from buying cyber currencies, causing their prices to begin a sustained decline.

That downward spiral will accelerate as cyber-currency "investors" try to bail out before prices plunge even more.  As one sports-radio commentator I heard recently sagely observed, cyber currencies are "imaginary money."  That reality will become readily evident as cyber currencies' prices approach zero"

(Source: Bert Ely, MSN, Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme)

Jamie Dimon, the chairman, CEO and president of JPMorgan, the nation's largest retail bank, famously said he'd fire any employee who traded bitcoin, calling it "a fraud" and boldly predicting that it would eventually "blow up." Those sentiments echoed past remarks about bitcoin by Warren Buffett, perhaps the world's most admired investor.

"People get excited from big price movements, and Wall Street accommodates... Stay away from bitcoin. It's a mirage, basically. The idea that it has some huge intrinsic value is just a joke, in my view -- you can't value bitcoin because it's not a value-producing asset."
--Warren Buffett

https://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/12/11/2017/sorry-ruin-surprise-bitcoin-will-collapse-2018
(Source: The Street, Bitcoin Will Collapse in 2018, Article Date: December 11th 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rotzgnrnfnY

If you want to learn more about the Ponzi Scheme, theres plenty of resources

Bitcoin is the TOTAL opposite of ponzi. See, ponzi makes the pioneers rich without doing much. Bitcoin pioneers became rich because they hodl... for newbies like you, you don't know that HODLing bitcoins despite of FUDs is not damn easy. You would be tempted to cashout everytime you read bad news from twitter and other media. So where is the ponzi then? You have the power to exit and enter anytime... this is a strategy game, not ponzi.

Bitcoin is only backed by a program that creates artificial scarcity and said that because of this, the digital currency is not sustainable.

Once everyone starts to panic and sell off. The price will come crashing down

HODL is not a proper strategy. At some point you have to sell in order to collect

Theres plenty of money to be made off the Ponzi Scheme. But when people stop buying into it, the prices will fall.

No I don't think bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme. As far as I know ponzi scheme didn't last for a decade normally after 2 to 3 years it sudden burst and those behind it were already gone. Bitcoin on the other hand has already prove its capability to stay strong in the market aside from the fact that it's been working for almost a decade now, the payment that was receive by people are all out of earnings of a certain company who facilitate it.

I see you are talking just one side of Bitcoin. THINK for why people are believing.

We also have to think for technology and power used for production of it. This technology is really awesome, its a future and Bitcoin is just successful experiment done with blockchain and cryptography. More cryptocurrencies are currently available but soon there will be more than current.

I personally think, here Bitcoin is offering opportunity to everyone to dive in it. Now its up to user how they consider it and what expect in returns. More demands of bitcoins will definitely increase price of bitcoin in future. This is just beginning, everyone have this opportunity to get returns at just one time because if you wish to sell and buy it again then it will costs lot more according to current market. So decide when to come in and when to come out.

for others bitcoin is a ponzi scheme only but actually because of bitcoin there's a lot of people reduced their poverty becaus of this so i think its more good in bitcoin and for me bitcoin is not a ponzi because it helps me alot to pay something and to buy anything that i want.

Its I agree. Bitcoin really helps to remove poverty, as who supports Bitcoin and its technology. Bitcoin always gives best returns to there user and holder. But this just part of investment.

Bitcoin offers open source income platform for everyone, just person have to learn and understand. Currently who dare to understand bitcoin I think everyone must be happy with growth of bitcoins.

I can't say its ponzi because, It decentralized, no one control it. In fact Bitcoin have "0" value in my sight. But user interest and Proof of work costs more and will costs more and more in future according to difficulties, block height and block size. Halving and forks are also noticeable things that will impact on price of bitcoin in coming future.

More and more people are saying it is a Ponzi Scheme each day.

Can still make a lot of money off them. But be careful you don't wait too long to cash out.

I do not think so, if it is true that bitcoin is the ponzi mak the richest man today is surely the inventor of Mr. Satoshi, but we never heard of him and according to the latest information he is still poor.

dude..the only ponzi scheme based cryptocurreny are coins from this site = https://www.lendingplatformreviews.com/ (https://www.lendingplatformreviews.com/)....bitcoin dont need recruit new member to stay alive and no need to advertise everywhere...people will always buy bitcoin because its the first one in blockchain technology

The scariest part of bitcoin is that it is not a tangible asset and doesn't produce any revenues.

from what i understand is that bitcoin has nobody behind its system, meaning the people who are investing in this system are the owner, peer to peer, no single person are running this business, it is difficult to manipulate, not unless you own the majority of shares, calling it a PONZI scheme is not the right term, people are getting huge returns based on their investments. nobody gave it to them but themselves.

This is an interesting debate. You don't get any return until you cash out. And from what I see most people are HODLers

If the price were to crash, it would be so slow to sell off and so expensive to do so, that millions of investors could lose all of their returns. Who are the losers going to be on bitcoin? There has to be losers in order for there to be winners. 500B in profit can't just happen (the current market cap of all cryptos) without there being lots of people losing too. I predict the addresses holding most of the bitcoin will have a dramatic influence on BTC price if and when they choose to "cash out".

I disagree with this statement because bitcoin is an open blockchain system and there is no one behind to manipulate it unless you have a lot of bitcoin. There are many investors who are becoming millionaires because of bitcoin prices. I believe in the true value of bitcoin in the future.

The big answer of your question was NO and i realy billieve in bitcoin he give me a hope that bitcoin is not a scam because so many people already start earning because of bitcoin.

There doesn't have to be one person behind the scheme. Everyone who buys into it is essentially part of the process. The creators don't have to have bad intentions and the miners don't have to have bad intentions. Like you said, bitcoin can be manipulated by ANYONE who has a LOT of bitcoin. 3% of the addresses control 97% of the bitcoin. And there could be people/group that control many addresses. Stop thinking there has to be one evil person behind it. And look at the entire picture instead.

as what you have said ponzi scheme is committed either by an individual or an organization.
but as you may know bitcoin isn't being controlled by anyone or any organization.
it is a decentralized system, therefore no one controls.
and this is the very essence why people has chosen to invest with bitcoin because they know they can control their own money.
therefore calling bitcoin as ponzi simply means that you dont know what you are talking about.
:D

Is it more of a Pyramid Scheme or a Ponzi Scheme?

I think the exact definition can vary

Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme, there is no one administrating bitcoin, if what you were saying was true then every single stock is a ponzi, where early investors put money in a business and then they sell for an higher profit, bitcoin is the same the price of bitcoin is going up not only because of speculation, bitcoin is growing because the technology is improving.

Bitcoin prices will keep going up as long as there is a line of greater fools thinking that they can sell for higher prices than they paid. But, inevitably, that faith will wane and, then, there will be no reason to hoard bitcoins. In contrast, when the price of Apple AAPL  stock drops, the price is stabilized by the fact that, as long as Apple is a profitable company, its stock is worth owning, When bitcoin prices drop, there will be no reason to hoard bitcoins and no reason for the price to stabilize. In the rush for the exit, few will make it out the door unscathed

(Source: Market Watch, Dec 13th 2017)
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/enjoy-bitcoin-while-you-can-2017-12-13?link=MW_home_latest_news

You have mentioned the definition of ponzi scheme correctly but even after that, how do you think bitcoin is a ponzi scheme?? Ponzi is centralized system with one or more owners. Who actually rolls out the money received from the new investors and pays out the old investors. Bitcoin is decentralized and no one actually controls it. People don't invest in bitcoin with a hope of getting daily interest return. So the basic structure of bitcoin and ponzi are different. They can't be compared with each other in any way.

Bitcoin is not Ponzi but it is being used in ponzi schemes thats why people are afraid of Bitcoin before because of news that its a ponzi but in reality its not, its just being used for ponzi schemes. If we are going to accept the argument that Bitcoin is ponzi, then Fiat is ponzi too, Fiat is used by many ponzi schemes around.

I'm confused. Or maybe I just disagree. I think the majority of people are indeed investing in bitcoin to get returns.

Bitcoin is not a fraudulent scheme of Ponzi, since new people who invest in it do not receive their profits from this investment at the expense of previous investments of other people. Bitcoin can be compared with a financial bubble, but not with a financial pyramid and fraud. However, no one can say for sure whether the manifestation of a financial bubble for crypto currency is its usual mode of existence or not. After all, the crypto currency is a completely different kind of financial settlements between people.

Oh my God, this dude is either a Troll or an idiot.... Man, why do you create these threads belittle bitcoin?

This is exactly what government and enemies of Bitcoin want to do, creating a situation of panic so that everyone sell their coin. Many news and government headlines are highlighting Bitcoin as Ponzi Scheme but according to me it is just baseless and pure assumptions nothing else. There is a great difference between the working of Bitcoin and Ponzi Scheme, also I think people are just blaming bitcoin without any understanding as if they even googled about Ponzi scheme they could easily detect the difference between the working of it and Bitcoin.

Yes for those people don't know about the technology, people should realize that bitcoin is very important in human being. Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme. that's why we need to study the fundamental and technical charting. trading is risky so disclaimer to thouse who want to ride

Gday all,

Here's why BTC is not a Ponzi scheme :

In a Ponzi – new investors' money flows directly and continuously and promptly from new investors to old investors.

Directly – with nothing in between (except the secret slush-fund which must be kept secret from the investors) – nothing of value, no security, no records (apart from false reports often created to cover up.)

But that is nothing like what happens in BTC. Instead, new investors to BTC receive ownership of BTC on the secure & public record of the blockchain. Ownership, security, public records.

There is NO flow of money - people buy and sell ownership of BTC. There is NO slush-fun, there is NO promoter. If buying slows or stops, BTC does NOT collapse.

Yes, a new investor must purchase from an older investor – of course they must, no-one can purchase from the future, can they ?
No, that does not make make it a Ponzi, any more than Microsoft shares are, just because new investors buy from older ones.

Yes, if prices are rising then a new investor will pay more, and old investors will make a profit – of course they will, that's business.
No, that does not make it a Ponzi, any more than Apple shares are, just because old investors make profits from new investors.

The general characteristic that old investors make profits from new investors applies to all rising markets. That does make not them a Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme has nothing in the middle except the secret slush-fund used by the promoter to maintain cash flows.

BTC is nothing like that.

Kapyong

Which describes ANY investment - e.g. Apple shares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yfp-pkjG5Y

Great video for anyone looking to research the topic more

the stupid question often asked by a beginner, it would be nice you always try to read and find knowledge about bitcoin. reading culture is the most perfect science. so fill your life with a variety of bitcoin and crypto knowledge. you will know the answer you have in your head.

The level of information you are exposed to depends on the height u go in life. Bitcoin is never a ponzi scheme and will never be. It was born out of the desire to have a transparent and non-taxable currency not dependent on race, country and so on and would create unification in your value cregardless of your country. It is a currency and also grown to become an asset. Be wise pls

As a phenomenon bitcoin has all the attributes of a pyramid scheme, requiring a constant influx of converts to push up the price, based on the promise of its use by future converts. So the ultimate value for bitcoin will be the same as all pyramid schemes: zero.

(Source: Financial Times, 2017)

https://www.ft.com/content/b5d66ed8-d1b3-11e6-b06b-680c49b4b4c0

Ponzi schemes usually usually persuade new investors by offering more benefits than other investments in the short term with a very high rate of return.

Bitcoin transactions are "incredibly expensive" What's more "all the fees are hidden through those crypto-mechanisms , bitcoin estimating will get "very Shabby on account of That's how it will scale , Bitcoin’s esteem against the dollar need almost tripled not long from now Concerning illustration open investment in advanced currencies need spread. It remains profoundly unstable though, losing some 30% over simply again An month the middle of june What's more july because of An argument about how should help its underlying engineering adjust of the sharp increment popular for it.