Bitcoin Forum

When you bet in games like blackjack or hi and low dice games in digital they always says that all is ferar..

They have a trust link for check if that game is trustued or not.

What you think about it?

This is real or what???

please comment here what you think about it...

good day friends,

"Farer"? or did you mean fair?

It depends on the site and how they generate their random numbers. The bitcoin gambling foundation has always said that to be a real provably fair system, it must have this formula,


Without which it will not be provably fair. Hence they say if that is the formula for generating random numbers then you can trust that casino.

However, thing is that is pretty much the basics of it. I have not read anyone that would have criticized this here on the forum (or probably I missed it). In a much more deeper level of understanding, there would be some aspects of this that can still be cheated. But I can't really say how that would be, but likely some good crafty programmer can think of ways to cheat this if they wanted to.

If this site has implemented a proper provably fair system, then yet it is very real. Do a quick Google search on how the provably fair System works for a better understanding. Once you know how to use it and what you’re looking for and you can just simply avoid sites that don’t have implemented correctly or haven’t bothered to try.

It depends about who implement it. To be sure that this is trustworthy do a search about this sites. If there are many members and there is no hint that this is just scam casino then you can trust it. Avoid sites that are too private.

all of us can say it's fair so i think we need to believe to what they say but you can think also that is not fair because they say only and for me all words is not trusted so i think see to believe.If they have proof then play but i think if you play gambling that is only for fun and not for profit,Moreover play in the gambling site that have a player also not like computer and in poker here in crypto.

That supposed to be fair and its just a typo for sure. This is why i do always seek out to see that transparency when it comes on making bets and how to verify it that its all random.These things can really make me say that this is a fair and trusted site but these behavior is just when i was still newbie on finding possible legit sites but not i am not already basing on that thing because i do consider it fair when a certain site do have lots of players and do have some good feedbacks.

Without shilling too much, check www.cryptogambling.org for a list of websites which are 100% fair and without a doubt will payout.

Well, that site is beginning to be a good source for people looking for answers for their gambling site checking needs. I guess it would just take some time though that every gambling site would be registered and comply with the rules there. Since this is somewhat like a treaty between states, were they are only bound by the rules of that treaty only by their express consent.

Thank you for the link, it is very useful. Now it is very difficult to find honest games, everyone wants to deceive you and appropriate your means.

- > Depends on which site you're gambling.

- >You can be easily tricked into believing your roll is fair if you don't know how to check for it.Usually every website has a link to prove their fairness but you gotta filter out the legit ones.

- >Check this old article on how to check for fairness : https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

I think that most of casinos are actually provably fair, for it's more profitable for the casino than taking risks of losing the trust of the community.
Op, if you don't feel like trusting everyone - just gamble on the most trusted websites like Primedice or those based on smart contracts (like vDice).
One more thing: the numbers might be absolutely random, but we shouldn't forget that there's also a house edge, so the actual probability of you to win is not the same as a pure probability to get a number you need, but a bit smaller.

Playing online casino has it own risks, one of them is that the casino operator may operate an unfair game, for an example, the blackjack may not be totally random, and may decide that some cards have more appearance chance.

That's the reason you should be always checking if the casino you are playing has a provably fair system( they show the source code of the game, and allows you to verify that the output is correct from the Hash and Salt they generated at the first place before you starting playing, the Hash and Salt should be revealed at the start of the game).
Even if the casino is well known,  there is still no way to know that it is not cheating on games.

I should look from 2 different part, one of them is to be "trusty" on games , the other one is to be "trusty" on payment.
Games can be "trusty" and you play and win and you can reach limit of payment. MEantime you may be clicking lots of advertisements or links.
When payment time comes oh there is nothing.
So not only game part and also payment part is really important.
You can look topics in here or look some websites they are listing game sites..

OP do research about provably fair gambling. You can find couple topics on this board.
There is no possible way for casino to cheat players if only nonce change.

I disagree.There are multiple ways one can manipulate this and these are just the basics,actual provable fair casinos do much more than just taking nonce into consideration.

If a casino has their own random number generation algorithm then it can be cheated into multiple ways by a crafty programmer but server hashes and if blocks taken into consideration,there are fewer chances of it.In reality,no machine with normal hashing power can generate a number which is 100% random and promises non recursive pattern.

It is hard to label some site that are not fair on their game, but it need to be the one that's you who need to take a break to have some review at the site your playing, have a review with it and you will nevertheless answer your own questions of is it fair? :D :D

And I disagree with you.
In reality if casino provide you server seed, you provide client seed and ONLY nonce change from 1 to n that is true provably fair.
It seems that many don't really understand provably fair system.

I do understand the provable fair system and have done my homework so...
My point is ,how can you be so sure that the seeds generated by client or the server are not manipulated ? Have you studied any of those algorithms ? I don't think so...You're right about the nonce change but seeds can be randomised or manipulated..

Player can manipulate result only if he knows server seed, which is pretty much impossible.
Casino can manipulate result because they know both player and server seed.
Nonce(or bet number) is solving this issue, so as long as you don't want to change client seed server seed should remain the same and only your bet number is changing. Take stake for example, unless you don't change client seed nothing is randomized leaving no room for manipulation.

But i believe there is some site that offer us to change seed. Which seed are those? But in the end we can't manipulated the result so what seed we need it? If you said server seed, I do not think that we can get that easily. I think some there are some people that keep changing their seed so you mean that their bet can be manipulated by server?

I think those games are really made with a little chance of success of course developers will not make any program that they think they will lose a lot, so when it comes to trust I guess majority of them can be trusted besides it's a system generated game if someone wins from betting that's probably luck that he/she were able to make the best bet. But for us to get a more chance of winning try to choose the game with the lowest house edge percentage.

When you're having the seed you could check the fairness on that seed. You could use this tool to check that : http://www.freeformatter.com/hmac-generator.html

all of the sites that have the current "industrial standard" provably fair=
secret  seed+player's seed+nonce count can be considered provably fair
but this would not make you safe from exit scams or the owners running away or closing the site,always check if the site is legit and trusted
if you have never played there or heard about the site,find their topic here at bitcointalk,google about it,see how many people are playing,chatting etc.
the sites here : dicesites.com (http://dicesites.com) are all good,many of the sites that are not on the list are cool as well,they just do not have
a way to update stats through API

With this so called provably fair implementation on gambling site does not guarantee a 100 percent safe on a player side the bettor or the client side. Even if we say that they only have the 1% house edge advantage we can't say that they will not run away after they collect a lots of money , the word of caution is gamble with care and with your own risk. Gambling is just for fun but don't take it seriously for profit.

Everyone wants to be a winner so that they could think so critically in terms to protect thier money in cases of losing it in a game. They create a trust link to make sure the trusty gaming and it also assure your money win..In a one game thier is a winner and losser. This trust link was able to give assurance to your money when it is winning, or even it is lossing..

I think that all those provably fair things does not help you much if the casino starts to scam with embezzling (https://game-protect.com/online-gaming-embezzlement/) your account balance and winnings!

It might be more important to play with online gambing consumer protection (https://game-protect.com/).

I think playing poker is tottaly fair because it's a person to person game and the house is just a middleman to hold the cash and organizing.

I believe on the trusted gambling websites that say the game are provably fair. I do not think that they need to scam or cheat people because the odds are always in their favor. In the end the house always win.

Different sites offer some tools you can use to check things out -

https://dicesites.com/satoshidice/verifier

This one is pretty old.

Yes, but what if the middleman holding the cash and the cards are somehow dealing a rigged deck? How can they prove that the cards drawn are totally random? Playing devil's advocate here :P

Yeah, this is an old site to verify whether it is provably fair or not but this is only for dicesites, from its domain name we can know it already. And I believe not all dice site is including here though. So i would say besides checking it from this sites, may be to ask some reviews, I believe there are so many sites that have been reviewed by gambler, so this is pretty good option to check some trusty games

For it's difficult to find the most trusted gambling site especially in cryptocurrency world !
But AFAIK , primedice is the most trusted gambling site that I've ever know although at the first glance, I'm not very sure that Primedice is a fair dice site so yeah... I try to take the RISK !

Not always. Bitcoin gambling wasn't different from the rest of gambling not so long ago.
Provably fair is a relatively new and unique gambling design to "prove" that no one is cheating. But it's only used in modern sites and mainly in the dice sites or anything related to this.
Most casinos don't have them. Bitstarz and shits like this...
As far as I know FortuneJack doesn't have this feature either.

It will still need some time to spread accordingly ;)

If you think that primedice is not a fair dice site why bother to play there, i believe there are still tons of fair sice site out there to be played. But I do not agree with you and saying that primedice is not a fair site. First thing that primedice is very old site which maintain their players well and they even have their own bankroll without let people bother to scare about their limit to play and of course they have provably fair system so you can check your bet result as well

It's always your seed (client seed) that you can change at will. You can't know server seed before the draw has been realised. To check if server seed hasn't changed at the advantage of the house, you can check encrypted server seed after the draw with the one provided before.

a little hesitant when I answer your questions, sometimes I believe dice sites that have betting verification but not all my trust is full.My friend says sometimes laps often spin undue because there are insiders who have played unfairly.

Playing or betting at a Casino .it's basically a long run Play where you invest a lot of money time to time to gain profit and that's the point you are losing, you have some amount of principal in your hand but remember always that the casino has almost 10 x money than you so it's obvious that they will win in the long run. Always use casino as a medium to try your luck or just a game for fun do not try to make it as a income source because you cannot win in the long run.

This is not true or you have no idea how provavly fair works.

Basically you got a hashed seed, the seed is usually hashed with SHA256 or SHA512 or so. Doesn't really matter what hashing term.

Your roll is usually calculated using

Server Seed + Client Seed + Nonce

The Nonce starts from 0 usually and goes up with every roll, this way the server and client seed can be constant.

After you are done betting, you can go back and check if the seed you were given was actually the hashed seed and then check your bets.

There can't be another seed which has the same hash. Hence there is your proof.

I'd like to believe on line casinos are really made of something in their system to assure they will get more than losing so much from betting of their players and this is very common even if they declare a fair policy in every game because if they will not do that I don't think they can survive especially that a lot of bettors are playing the one time big time shot. I'm sure even if some really experiencing winnings in casinos still there games and system cannot be trusted that much

Uhh... This post was a tad hard to read. Big wins do happen, they are just very rare. But, since they happen, everyone chases that dream of hitting the jackpot. However, casinos are designed to make money.

For example, a brick and mortar casino's profit margins run on a 9:1 ratio. For every dollar that is spent gambling, $0.10 is paid back out. I will guess these numbers are similar to online casinos. If the house sees $1,000,000 in bets in a day, they can afford to give a player a $10,000 jackpot. This is what makes everyone keep coming back.

At https://bitvest.io for instance, the first time I played there I got a very good run, and won 0.05 BTC, I asked for a withdrawal, no question asked and I was paid within an hour. Of course bad luck will strike too, you just need to be aware of it and play with the money you can afford to lose.
Anyway, it should all remain good fun, and if at the same time it can be a way to boost your short terms winnings then it is all good! Just don't be too greedy. My 2 cents.

Playing gambled game for me is not a way of profit source, if i have an extra money i enjoyed playing in gambling site for relieving my stress from work or luckily if i won at the same time I've earned. I also played that can afford of my loss, don't play if not enough of you're capital.
I think all gambled site has a play fair game unless if it is not scam site, just play on trusted site not by fake one. just try this https://bustadice.com/play.
Yes greediness is one factor you can't win on game and also if you play in a long run i'm sure you did not win, strategy needs to avoid res bets.