Bitcoin Forum

Hi, I have come up with a great idea and wanted to get some input from you guys. And to call out to any developers/web designers that would want to help out.

Okay so it is a savings account for infinitecoin. We would like to be able to never touch our clients money and wondered if it would be possible to ensure the money is not spent via monitoring the blockchain automatically? So say someone wants to save 10000 IFC's it would need to be able to monitor the blockchain to ensure at least 10000 coins are in the wallet. Or perhaps the client could install a second wallet and only use it as their savings account. So we could easily check if the coins are deposited and not withdrawn...

The next big thing is I would like a ticker, the kind found on debt time bomb, only I want this to display what the saver is making, in real time... I'm not sure how technically difficult this would be?

I would want everything automated. From signing up to cashing out... But if that is too difficult we can be flexible here.

Also after a savings period is up we would need an option for the saver to continue, with even better terms... Again this can be flexible, depending on difficulty.

The site will also be monetized with ads. The profits of which will go towards purchasing more coins to offer more contracts.

We are starting with a pot of currently 600,000,000 IFC's... This has been donated by myself and my business partner... If the need arises more can be provided.

We would be offering short term savings contracts such as

10 days = 1%
20 days = 2%
30 days =2.5%
60 days =3%
120 days =5%

There will be a savings cap of around 10,000 to ensure the coins are distributed evenly. Though this may change. And multiple contracts may be offered depending on demand.

When for instance a 120 day investment is up the saver will have a choice to either cash out or continue with new terms. Those terms being...

An additional 10,000 could be deposited, plus their interest rate would rise to 6%...

The idea of all this is to make a fun way to promote the coin and to reward savers and also as an extra incentive to mine and trade...

We are not rich by any stretch of the imagination but we think this could be a step towards decentralized banking! This will be a non profit organization. The only benefit we will see would be for an increase in price due to more interest for the coin.

So with that in mind we would really like some free help if at all possible, though of course lifetime advertising goes without saying.

If there are any question you have please ask. (I am sure you will!! )

EDIT:... Just to add that we will not be stopping with only infinite coin, if all goes well there is no reason why it can't be done for any coin. Plus I have lots more ideas to add to this. :)

Just wanted to note that although we would like some free help for the right kind of help we would be willing to put up some money.

The hardest things are going to be block explorer monitor and the ticker. I would be willing to pay for these things separately or work out some kind of deal.

Right now I would just like some input, like how possible is all this? Could we do the same with a simpler model?

Any advice or thoughts are welcome.

If I may make one suggestion, limit your scope. It is fine to speculate about what you may want to do, but until you decide what the first "phase" is going to look like, you may find it difficult to provide any direction to anyone. 

For example, my current project is a website where I can host web-based trading bots for people that do not have the hardware or technical experience to host their own. Although a simple concept, there are a multitude of parts and pieces that make it too difficult to consider all of them at once in anything other than general terms. In order to do this, I broke it down into small steps.

Step 1: Create a standalone bot that follows a simple buy low, sell high strategy.
Step 2: Update the standalone bot to include additional configurations, such as stop limits, etc.
Step 3: Add a user interface to the standalone version so that it runs in a web browser.
Step 4: Create a demo web page to show that the bot works in a web based environment.
Step 5: Create web page with limited slots.
Step 6: ..........

This is a high level view. Obviously each phase has smaller parts, but if you can describe each of the phases in a succinct manner, those smaller parts are easy to figure out, and are somewhat implied. For instance, in my step 1, it should be sort of obvious that there needs to be a 'bot' script, a way to query the exchange for information, and a way to store relevant data. Once you get to that point, then you can start to think about implementation details.

Anyway, my point is that if you cannot clearly define your goals, then it is going to be hard to proceed. If you tell me "I want to create a website that acts as a savings account for digital currency", then I have an idea of what might be needed, and I will better be able to ask questions that will help you tease out your expectations.

**********************

Now to the questions at hand, what problem are you trying to solve? What do you hope to accomplish? Why would someone use your service? What would the first phase of this project look like?

A ticker shouldn't be difficult. It should just be a matter of reading a value from somewhere and using some calculation to determine profit/loss. Monitoring an address on the blockchain is not hard either.

I am the business partner  :)

I know how the ticker needs to work ( already know the formula needed to get the numbers ) its just making it automatically add a set amount  

when you sign up you select term/interest rate enter the total amount of coins you will be saving and the wallet address

I will be making a basic concept design on what the sign up needs to look like and work

I think having a block explorer on the same sever as the website would mean that it can check the balance every set amount of time without using bandwidth

i have a good idea on how it needs to be set out / how it will work and how it could be implemented i am just useless at coding anything

If you could give me a list of questions I will try and answer them all best I can  :)
 

Well obviously we have gone over the details but there was no real need to go over it at thid particular time as I was only looking for some general advice and to see what is and isn't possible. But thank you for the advice all the same...

So the ticker and blockchain monitoring are possible, thats great to hear!...

What problem are we solving... We will be promoting the coin as well as giving people a further incentive to mine and buy the coins... I think it could also help "bag holders", if the price drops suddenly they can pop it into savings and wait it out. Should help to stabalise the price.

Why would someone use our service?... They can increase their holdings and they can still look after their own money... My question would be why wouldn't they? :p... But seriously there is no risk for them and everything to gain. Besides who wouldnt like to watch their money grow in real time? With such large numbers it would look really nice too.

What is the first phase? Well the first phase started and finished on the infinitecoin ann thread... Brain storming of course. Phase 2 we got down into more detail over at altcointalk, in the infinitecoin subforum...

We have put much thought into this. The next phase we are contacting developers and web builders, we had one quote back, 10, 000 and six months... So we went back to phase 2 and are leaning towards manually confirming the blockchain info so that we can get up and running much cheaper and faster than that...lol

If you have any more advice or suggestions then please continue... Or if you have more questions fire away.

Thanks for at least stopping by, I think this could be a really exciting project.

I am completely confident that you have many of the details worked out, and I actually forgot to give you props for not being afraid to talk about your idea. That is so much better than the "Pleaze code for me. I have a secret idea." I hope you didn't think I was being critical of you, because I wasn't. I was just so surprised that someone actually shared their idea that I got a little excited and wanted to offer some considerations that may make it easier for you to find help. :)

Thank you very much for the compliment. You see with this idea it doesn't really matter if someone steals it. In fact I would encourage people to. It will help keep prices stable and that will benefit everybody. If I saw this option somewhere I would surely invest! :)

Your advice was appreciated, don't worry :)

So all in all what do you think? I have other great ideas I want to add too... But that is for another time.

Do you know of any web designers that might like to come on board? See that is what we need now. So that we can start narrowing down exactly what we can do.

Great points raised by minzie  :)

SNA or zack, would you like to PM me regarding the above? I can code PHP/sql and won't ask for $10k  ;)

I have pm'd you, thanks for showing your interest... :)

EDIT: To all other interested parties please feel free to offer your services too, we would love as much help as possible. :)

I am trying to understand your goal here... you are effectively offering to *pay people* not to spend their coins but to save them?   Who pays an why?

Sounds like (external) money / account management services. Am I correct?

The goal is to encourage adoption of the coin and to stabalise the price. It's also a way to distribute some of the wealth from the top holders, as they would have the most incentive to donate... But as stated the ad revenue generated would go to buying coins which would help with increasing demand... Everybody wins... The coins we have to get the ball rolling are donated by myself and zackclark (mainly zackclark).

Any more questions just let me know. :)

Hmmm well no not really, we dont want to manage their money, we just want to reward people for sticking by their coin. And to stabalise the market a little... It is in essence de-centralised banking. Although we will not be giving loans or anything like that.

It is really great to have you all commenting, please keep them coming. :)

Oops did I post in the wrong section? Thread was moved... Anyway, had lots more ideas flowing this morning... Originally I was not interested in offering loans... But then I got to thinking... What if there was a way to offer interest free loans? Now that would be something a little special (as if it isn't special enough lol)! I think I have found a way! I need to talk it over with zack but I don't see why it isn't possible!

I think it's a cool idea with some potential


Think you'll generate enough traffic to pay the interest? You probably will anyway. I just worry that if I sign up and deposit some coins, you'll get just 2 chances to show me ads, 60 days apart. I might drop by more often if this was coupled with something else interesting: games, articles, commentary, a trollbox at the very least  ;D

Well, with a real-time ticker, people may tend to often keep a tab open at this site to look at their money stash grow ^^

... not that all people do that ... but did you never stayed for at least minutes looking at your miner ? :)

Ads etc only become necessary in proportion to how small a holder the powers that be happen to be.

Consider for example a Ripple type currency, in which the only way anyone other than TPTB gets any is if TPTB choose to give some out to someone.

That is the extreme case at which it is clear that they don't care how many they have to give away in order to convince someone somewhere to actually pay something for some.

Even if you have to give away 99.99 percent of your hundred billion coins to fool someone somewhere to buy 0.001 percent of them, you gain because you made the whole shebang up out of thin air to begin with and can spawn sock puppets all day everyday spawning more such schemes so really what does it matter if you have to give away hundreds of billions of worthless tokens in order to scam something of actual value from someone somewhere sometime for one or more of one or more of the tokens you spawn?

Just keep throwing more shit against the wall hoping some sticks.

Also pretty clear though is that the lower your percent holding the less easy this particular approach is to pull off. Suddenly you aren't the only conjuror waving a magic printing-press to make up worthless tokens out of thin air, and if you hold too few the other holders could try to hold you to your interest offer depositing so much more percent of the whole shebang than you even have, let alone than you are willing to give away to make the stuff look interesting so people will buy some to get interest on it, that you cannot pay the interest on that much of the stuff.

So you do pretty much need to hold a clear majority of the stuff. The whole concept maybe isn't all that likely to occur to, or seem attractive to, folks who aren't holding half or well over half of the whole shebang.

In a way this is what nations do. Lets all us important nations, the ones that count, print up a whole bunch of stuff we will call "money", and set "interest rates" to make it "interesting". The suckers will be so busy running around trying to get the best "interest rates" that pretty soon almost no-one will listen when anyone points out the stuff is all worthless from the get-go and it is them chasing the so called "interest" that makes it useful and interesting, because to get some to earn "interest" with they have to part with something, maybe even something of actual value hopefully at least when obtaining it from us, so that we get something real for our imaginary so called "money"...

So its not really very original, but it does work best when you are the sole printer of your "brand" of the stuff and especially when you can print any amount of it you need to pay the so called "interest" with.

Some theories of course might try to suggest that printing more lowers the value of what already exists, but a clever way to pretend that away is to pre-print it, so you are just issuing more, not printing more, doesn't that sound much better?

Anyway, it is fun to see it posted about, and very vindicating to see that of all coins it is of course infinitecoin that is posting it, since of course if you have an infinite supply why not issue it as interest instead of or in addition to as miners minting of it?

Earning and charging interest is a huge amount of how the values shown in the tables and plots at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html came about.

-MarkM-

I think so, obvioulsy :) And I think the real time ticker will get people returning but you are right, the site will be populated with other things to do too. News articles and the like. I have something in mind regarding games in the future that could be another fantastic addition, and create many more hits. :)

Assuming we can replenish the pot with ad revenue, what do you think? Would you use us? :)

Great points and exactly my thinking! Of course not everyone will keep an eye on it but I am sure a lot will... I know I would and yes I have sat staring at my miner many a time, as well as the pool data lol :) So I take it you would use a service like this?

Well that is a very pessimistic way of looking at it and you have a few points wrong. I will address those first... It is not "infinitecoin coming up with it" I am not associated with the creators of infinite coin and they have had zero input into this. Also infinitecoin ironically has a finite amount. There will be 90,6 billion created which we think is a realistic sum. People don't want to spend fractions of a coin on something, it would be better to have it as whole coins (opinion of course)

Now you seem to be dealing out the idea that this is some kind of scam. Sir, you are wrong, anyone that holds any coin wants their coin to grow and succeed, else why would they have them? Are they all scammers for that? I don't think so, speculators? Yes, nothing wrong with that...

The service is being funded by ad revenue, it is helping to serve the economy as a whole by promoting lots of other things, not just the coin itself.

You are right, for people to use a coin as currency they have to see worth in it. We want to provide that worth. We want to build something really cool that will help spread the wealth to people who technically invest in it. We want to offer interest free loans to trusted members. We want a new way of doing things. There is nothing sinister here.

Do we stand to gain? Sure, what is wrong with that? It is not like we are getting it for nothing. And anyone who invests and saves with us will stand to gain too! It is win win... :)

I understand you're skeptical and that's fine. Wait and see. Oh and the price for IFC is still very cheap, anyone can get in on the ground floor right now and for some time to come. :)

Well, I don't have an infinicoin wallet to begin with ^^

But I'm really not sure how this service would affect users ...

Because of the mostly speculative aspect of today crytocoins, they display a strong instability in price (bitcoin included of course). Except when instantly exchanging any crytocoin income to fiat, there is no way sizable businesses (I mean where you can buy real life goods) would run on crypto as of now.
If a lot of people (or maybe more importantly) a large fraction of the money supply is kept in such service, this would probably help stabilize the price (which is maybe what is the most needed for any non "pump & dump" coin !).

This would be in the best of the worlds ...

But in the current world, there is also a risk for the holder if the market crash as he can't react and try to sell to minimize his loss.


Also, the sustainability of such a service is not assured if sizable amounts are sent to it.

Last but not least, the temptation to run a ponzi scheme is high (à la Madoff or pirate something as seen with bitcoin, where you pay interest on the money newcomers deposit) ... Well some would argue cryptocoins themselves are just a big ponzi-scheme ^^

EDIT: corrected ... Madoff instead of Markov, lol !

Oh and one more thing, the troll box is a possibility, could be a good gauge on how people are liking the service and a place to maybe get some suggestions. Maybe we would have the first chat box rather than a troll box though? :p

"Well, I don't have an infinicoin wallet to begin with ^^

But I'm really not sure how this service would affect users ..."

There could be a way around this, i assume you have them on an exchange? I would look into how that would work via the block explorer.

Only time will tell but I think it would be a fantastic benefit for them. Even the option of interest free loans could really help people out.

"Because of the mostly speculative aspect of today crytocoins, they display a strong instability in price (bitcoin included of course). Except when instantly exchanging any crytocoin income to fiat, there is no way sizable businesses (I mean where you can buy real life goods) would run on crypto as of now.
If a lot of people (or maybe more importantly) a large fraction of the money supply is kept in such service, this would probably help stabilize the price (which is maybe what is the most needed for any non "pump & dump" coin !)."

Yes we think so too, it is one of the beautiful things about this. It lowers the erge to dump as you can always pop it in the savings and earn some money on it... Also there will constantly be a demand to by us buying them to refund the pot. I think they will play major factors in how this will work.

"But in the current world, there is also a risk for the holder if the market crash as he can't react and try to sell to minimize his loss."

No this part is not right, they could sell up their coins any time they like, they have complete control over their money at all times. If they sell up though they will move the coins and that will show on the block explorer and then the contract would be ended and the interest earned will go back into the pot. :)

"Also, the sustainability of such a service is not assured if sizable amounts are sent to it."

There will be a maximum limit to protect against that. There will be different levels of accounts too based on a few things.

"Last but not least, the temptation to run a ponzi scheme is high (à la Markov or pirate something as seen with bitcoin, where you pay interest on the money newcomers deposit) ... Well some would argue cryptocoins themselves are just a big ponzi-scheme ^^"

No temptation here, the only way I benefit is if I make something that good enough and helps the crypto-community. If it didn't then people wouldn't use it and then the price wouldn't stabilize and grow.

I have heard many arguments for all coins being scams in one way or another. If people feel that way I suggest they don't invest and then the problem is solved. :) I happen to think otherwise :)

MMh, I think I misunderstood something ... to coins would not be kept by you then ?
The user tell you the address he is keeping coins in, and if after the contracted period the coins have not moved, you reward him, is that it ?

In that case, my fear of locking coins whatever happens does not hold, as my fear of a ponzi scheme as you would not be able to spend to "semi-locked" coins. Nice.

Would this be bearable ... this is still an open question. As limiting the locked amounts in face of users trying to create multiple contracts / accounts.

But ... I still don't have *any* infinicoin ^^ ... too many alts, too little hashpower and money ^^

go on www.altcointalk.co.uk there is a IFC giveaway and you can get 5,000 IFC for free all you need is a wallet

"MMh, I think I misunderstood something ... to coins would not be kept by you then ?
The user tell you the address he is keeping coins in, and if after the contracted period the coins have not moved, you reward him, is that it ?"

That is the idea yeah. De-centralized, anonymous savings account... You like? :)

"In that case, my fear of locking coins whatever happens does not hold, as my fear of a ponzi scheme as you would not be able to spend to "semi-locked" coins. Nice."

Indeed! :)... It would remove any trust issues people may have. You can pop the coins in a wallet and then put that on a USB if you like, but you control the coins at all times.

"Would this be bearable ... this is still an open question. As limiting the locked amounts in face of users trying to create multiple contracts / accounts."

Multiple accounts is something we have discussed and the feelings are that it is not so much a big deal, multiple accounts mean multiple hits. ;)

"But ... I still don't have *any* infinicoin ^^ ... too many alts, too little hashpower and money ^^"

Well the price is still very cheap, my advice would be buy some! ;)

Good point, I think there are other giveaways too I'm sure. :)

Btw, note to all... We now have 2 developers working on the project. I will keep everyone informed on the progress and of course this is early days. But it is moving along very nicely. And if anyone else would like to join the team it would be much appreciated. :)

EDIT: Also just wanted to say that doing this is going to cost us a hell of a lot of money, more than I expected to be honest... Is there going to be anyone telling us how bad we are spending our money to help something we believe in grow? lol

If there is anyone that would like to step forward as a sponsor or part sponsor, or to just join the team then feel free to pm me.

 Project Infinite

We now have a domain! altcoinsavings.com

Plan details
Step 1: Scan viewers browser for ad blockers.
The whole idea of this site is for it to be self sufficient through advertising revenue. So viewers will be required to turn off ad block services. Need a pop up informing people about our vision and the reasons for the ads.

Step 2: Meet and great homepage
Need a nice tidy homepage that says what we do, who we are and what our vision is. The page will need a Sign Up button which will take them through to the registration page. There will also be a sign in for returning customers. The sign in will lead them to their account. There will be a requirement to download the client wallet before they sign up.

Step 2: Registration
Registration page will require a username, email address, password and there IFC savings wallet address. Keeping it as anonymous as possible (A feature that I had not considered until now). We could even have this form on the homepage with the sign up button. (to be decided).

Step 3: Sign up confirmation.
There will be an email requiring confirmation sent out.

Step 4: Explanation page.
After the account is confirmed we can explain the process to them...

Advise that the wallet should be encrypted for their safety
Send the required funds to the address
As soon as the funds are received click start and your contract will begin
Relax and watch your money grow!

Step 4: Contract Page
Here is where they will choose the options available. Contract length vs percentage could work on a sliding scale or with drop down menus (to be decided)
Terms would consist of...

Length of contract
Amount deposited

Here are the contracts available
・   10 days at 1 % interest. Example, deposit 262,144 IFC's and earn 2621.44 IFC's in just 10 days!
・   30 days at 3.5% interest. Example, deposit 262,144 IFC's and earn 9175.04 IFC's in just 30 days!
・   60 days at 8% interest. Example, deposit 262,144 IFC's and earn 20971.52 IFC's in just 60 days!
・   120 days at 20% interest. Example, deposit 262,144 IFC's and earn 52428.8 IFC's in just 120 days!


When a certain contract length is chosen the percentage will auto adjust.
There will be an accept button which will prompt them to send the coins with a further button for them to press once the funds have been received. They will be informed that this action is confirmed via the blockchain.

Step 4: To the ticker
Once the start button has been pressed they will be taken to the ticker which would have been triggered to start with the start button. There will be other info here such as a countdown timer for the remaining time left on the contract.

Step 5: Contract ends
When the contract has ended an email will be sent informing the saver the time is up and to ask them if they would like to claim their interest or restart with an extra deposit and better interest rate.

Step 6: Customer returns to website
When the customer logs in after the contract has ended they will be greeted by the final amount and the ticker stopped. There will be an option to continue or to withdraw.
 Continue
If they choose continue they will be taken back to step 4 but with their new balance and the option to add more.
 Withdraw
If they choose withdraw there will be an email sent to me and zack informing us and then we will manually check the blockchain. If everything is okay then the interest will be sent to the savings address. They will then be thanked and taken back to step 4 with zero balance.

In addition there will need to be advertising implemented. There will need to be the ability to alter terms and an easy way to stop giving contracts when/if the pot has been maxed out.

Currently working on...

This section is something I am working on right now, it won't make it for launch but I thought I would share it with you so you can see we are looking ahead.
We may offer an upgraded account. There will be terms attached to that upgrade such as being a forum member for a certain amount of time and making a certain amount of posts etc... The accounts will be approved manually.
On this account you have more features.
Larger deposit limit.
The ability to request interest free loans.

The most noteworthy addition here is the interest free loans, now they would start out small but grow as trust grows. The whole idea is this will generate more hits that will go to purchase more IFC's.

This is something we will consider later on.

This concludes the bare bones of the website. We do want to add a news section and various other information but that can be dealt with at a later date. Any questions please ask.

Kind Regards
Baz and Zack Smiley

the idea is great but who any why people pay for this? i think using add and sponsor will help to get rid of money problem. If they do this then no one has to pay and everyone will agree with you.