Bitcoin Forum

Has anyone made a serious attempt to collect from Mt. Gox? There are ways to do this. I don't have any money with them, but I've had to do international collections before, for amounts in high six figures, and I got paid.

Here are some options:

• Sue in Delaware. Mt. Gox has a legal presence in the U.S., in Delaware, as a result of their FinCen filing. So Mt. Gox can be sued there. Delaware has Justice of the Peace courts (http://courts.delaware.gov/jpcourt/) with jurisdiction up to $15,000. They even have online filing, although you may have to go to Delaware for the trial. Mt. Gox will either have to send someone to trial, or lose by default. You still have to collect on the judgement, but there are ways to do that.
• Hire a collection agency in Japan. This isn't easy across the language barrier, but it's possible. Search with Google for 債権回収サービス ("Debt collection service") (https://www.google.com/search?q=債権回収サービス). It's useful to use Google Chrome with automatic translation enabled for this. Find a service that mentions that they do commercial collections, not just consumer collections. Here's the Japan Ministry of Justice's list of registered debt collection agencies. (http://www.moj.go.jp/housei/servicer/kanbou_housei_chousa15.html). There are ones that are not registered, but some are just Yazuka goons. (Although that might work, this is going to be a high-profile collection, and they don't want the visibility.) There are U.S. companies which claim they can collect in Japan, but most don't actually have a presence in Japan. Unless a US company has a Tokyo office of their own, they're probably wasting your time. The normal deal is that the collection agency gets a cut of what they collect, but you don't pay anything up front.
• Raise hell in the financial press. Start calling reporters who have written stories about Bitcoin. Call Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Not just email - call them. Use words like "default" when talking to them.
• File a complaint with the Japan Ministry of Finance under the Payment Services Act. Whether Mt. Gox likes it or not, they fall under the Payment Services Act (http://www.fsa.go.jp/frtc/kenkyu/event/20090331/12-4.pdf) in Japan, which regulates non-bank money transfer services. Japan has many such services; most of the cell phone companies offer money transfer, for example. They're required to maintain 100% of customer funds in a separate account, and the Financial Services Agency can audit this. The place to start is a Japanese consulate in the US or the Japan External Trade Organization. One of the major functions of consulates, especially ones of countries with big export trade, is to tell people how to deal with cross-border commercial problems.

If Mt. Gox owes you a substantial amount of money, you can make them pay. You don't have to put up with their nonsense. They do not get to determine when and whether they pay up. It doesn't work that way in the real world.

all of these options are probably more expensive then paying 5-10% over market for BTC (where market is an exchange other then gox) and selling them on another exchange

Yeah. These options would cost more (in time and money) instead of cancelling the withdrawal, buying BTC and selling it elsewhere.

How about flying over and running naked through their office wearing only an ammunition belt, a plethora of guns taped to several limbs, an RPG slung across the back and a raging hardon? That should work.

That is correct, of course. But it is expensive. This is why most reasonable approach is class action lawsuit and it will pay back in a big way. You might try to organize it?

I already opted to not use MTGOX anymore. Cancelled pending wires, bought BTC, and sent to offline wallet.

Gox is borderline ridiculous now. They claim withdrawals have been enabled yet 2+ weeks later after they re-enabled withdrawals they still dont have a single confirmed user who has had a successful withdrawal in any currency.

Unacceptable is the word to describe this.

The Delaware option is not that expensive at all, especially if you are on the East Coast already. $15k is a great limit as well, we don't get that high of a ruling amount in CA.

It would cost the trip to Delaware and about $40 for the filing fee (give or take a few extra $10 fees im sure). Here's the link to the courts: http://courts.delaware.gov/JPCourt/index.stm (http://courts.delaware.gov/JPCourt/index.stm)

All the filing could be done online and all you would have to do is show up, hardly an effort if you have $15k waiting in Mt. Gox withdrawal land.

The last one is probably the important one. The armament pales in importance to the erection and can be done without.

If you think you're going to "apply pressure" to gox you're crazy. If the US govt can't push them around, I doubt your going to have much more luck.

Much lols from you, tip awarded.

Thank you for your 2 mBTC I'll be sure to gamble it away on something other than being able to withdraw it from Gox.

Good point.  If Mt. Gox sends someone, you get to ask questions about where your money is. With them under oath, under penalty of perjury. "We have a backlog processing withdrawals" has zero value as a defense in court.

My guess is that if you file suit, you will get paid before it goes to court. Mt. Gox doesn't want to answer hard questions under oath.  Nor do they want a default judgement against them, which is what happens if they don't send someone.

(I once had a disagreement with Freelancer.com, which is in New South Wales, Australia. The small claims court there accepts online filings. I filled out the appropriate forms and sent a copy to Freelancer.com. I had an answer from them within hours and a wire transfer in my bank account the next day. That's what usually happens when you sue and the other side knows they have a losing case.)

If someone does this you'll be a NPC in S.MG's GTA too.


Yeah, because you'd know what has and hasn't value in court and how much of it. Because this is the lolcourt of lolpublic lolpinion.

hahah true that.

Great story. "I have made astronomical profit but must wait three months for my money." Do you expected charity? Such things are common for high-risk investments. But yes, people think about Bitcoin as if it had been invented by Jesus Christ. So maybe it's worth trying.

It probably won't be long until one of the e-Lolyers or shills here who can't stop loving the Gox breaks down and does it anyway. It will probably happen when they found out the Feds gave their seized Gox dollars to one of the lending scammers on welfare, probably this one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=113801).

I'm actually quite surprised at the backlash in this thread. I'd like to think of the OP's post as an "interest guage" to what could be done not necessarily a definitive answer as to how to handle the current Mt. Gox situation.

The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are. Answers will slowly be demanded and if they aren't given, pressure is going to build to a point where people start doing something. Starting with a small claim where they are based in the US is a good way to get some attention.

(also from what it sounds like, not many people responding have 10's of thousands stuck in withdrawal)

That was my point. It's past time to do something. There are things that can be done.

The actual location of Mt. Gox, according to a filing in the Coinlab lawsuit, is Tōkyō-to, Shibuya-ku, Shibuya, ２丁目１１−６ (http://goo.gl/maps/8VP41). 5th floor. About 300 meters east of Shibuya station.

Are you personally stupid or just ESL-stupid?


You're new. Take the time to search this forum for "doing something".

Also there's a reason no major player is dumb enough to have 10s of k's stuck in withdrawal. That reason is more of the history you don't know (http://trilema.com/2013/grave-concerns-re-mtgox/).

@เสือน้อย: What did you say, why you have been banned from Gox? Was it money laundering? Sorry, I can not remember.

I'm not sure I would use MtGox either way...

Depends on how much money is stuck up there.
I have $20k trying to transfer out. 10% of that is $2k, that is a lot of money.

I know someone who has $1 million waiting to transfer out...

Of course, they have the right, definitely. Maybe you all should just take a look at Goxs business conditions:


You like to apply pressure on Gox as a savings bank. But this is ridiculous and no judge will share this view with you. Is a high risk investment and currently Gox can only transfer 1 Milllion per week. It has taken months to get all the money to Gox, and it will take at least as long to get it out. Deal with it!

I think you are missing the point here. You are free to have your views, but not everyone is in favor of the "sit around and take it" method that you preach.

The situation with Gox is turning into negligence and they are completely masking any obstacles or issues they may have currently run into. As you can see on the boards, no one has a clue as to what is going on with Gox whether good or bad. It sounds like from the responses so far, you may be in the minority here and while you keep screaming "deal with it", others are choosing to take action.

Don't bother with that OhShei persona, he/she is obviously used to conversing with dimwits.

It seems to me that this "hiatus" is long past simple negligence and fast approaching something much worse. I hope I'm wrong because it's going to harm Bitcoin adoption in the short-medium term, but Gox isn't exactly helping Bitcoin's image as it is.

A question for those with money still in limbo... why haven't you canceled your withdrawal, converted to BTC, and got the hell out of there? A class action lawsuit is a pipe dream, and the rest of the options are far more expensive than just moving on while you still can.

+1

That won't help Mt. Gox.  The Japan Consumer Contract Act voids such clauses: (http://www.consumer.go.jp/english/cca/index.html#2-2)
Read the full text at the link.  Japan law doesn't allow clauses like the one Mt. Gox uses.

Note another term in the Mt. Gox agreement:


That's an obligation to segregate customer assets from Mt. Gox's own assets.  It's also a requirement of the Japan Payment Services Act, which is enforced by the Japan Financial Services Agency. (http://www.fsa.go.jp/en/)

So Mt. Gox cannot get off the hook with some disclaimer in their terms of service.

And they don't have some combination of lawyers, debt collectors, Japan FSA investigators, and goons banging on Mt. Gox's door in Shibuya?