Bitcoin Forum

https://www.sec.gov/servlet/Satellite/News/PressRelease/Detail/PressRelease/1370539730583#.Ue7UNtKsgS_


Feel free to post if you honestly believe that the SEC is not looking at Sonny Vleisides or BF Labs Inc. (Butterfly Labs).

What does that article have to do with Sonny Vleisides or BF Labs Inc. (Butterfly Labs)?
Did BFL or Sonny Vleisides engage in ponzi scheme fraud?

What about company like this one https://www.cloudhashing.com/contracts
are they engaging in fraud?

SEC's eye is on bitcoin related companies now.

BFL will either dissapear like butter or fly away with peoples money.

Except when you buy a product, you are not considered an investor.

Unless the pre-order money was used to develop the products.

Nope, that still doesn't change your status as a customer.  And it has yet to be proven that they've used pre-order money to develop the products anyway.

I guess it is possible to not use a single satoshi of the pre-order money, depending solely on the original VC and FPGA sales to: Purchase all the parts needed to build ASIC miners (BFL stated all they needed, they had, sans the chips in late 2012); Repurchase a many of the same parts, but redesigned because heating issues; Pay for the new warehouse buildout; Pay a staff of 22+ starting the last sale of the FPGA to until a trickle of ASIC were handed over to a dwindling swarm of locust; Pay the temp service; Pay for the new neon signage in the lobby; Purchase equipment off eBay, currently displayed in their facility at the most inconvenient location, namely the front the building known as the lobby, adjacent to the neon sign; Pay for the CES booth, along with transportation and lounging of at least two BFL employees; etc.

Possible, but not likely!

I can easily make the above list a helluva lot longer, without a single hyperbole incorporated. But, I assume you get the gist.

The bottom line, it is completely impossible for BFL to do what they claimed they did without touching pre-order moneys. Yes, I don't have proof, nor anybody else, for we're not privy to their finances, and that's a good thing. But we don't need to see physical proof, for logic dictates elsewise.

I forgot to mention above the cost involved to manufacture the chips--TWICE! Fuck me! I just now remember all the advertising they splashed throughout the internet.

Here's my question: What is the maximum amount of profit that BFL could have recognized from the sale of their FPGA line? What is the reasonable maximum amount of money they could have received from a VC? Add those two numbers together? What is the sum?

Now add all the expenses BFL had starting from the sale of the last FPGA to a time frame that they would be legally able to use partial funds of the pre-sale moneys of the ASIC line.

Subtract!

If one does not come up with a negative number, I want to invest in their endeavors, for they are fuckin' geniuses.

Now, I ask one simply request: Show me a model, on paper, of how BFL was able to spend more moneys than what came in without touching a single satoshi of the pre-order moneys under fairly recently recently. If you can't, then it's consider an investment, funding their entire operation.

Remember, BFL loathes the very community that was kind enough to help them with their endeavor. This is a fact--THEY LOATHE THIS COMMUNITY!

Come on Phinnaeus, you're getting sloppy.  First you say it's possible, then you say it's completely impossible?

What if a VC gave them $25M?  You and I haven't a clue what their finances look like, and spouting crap like this off as fact just makes you look bad.  Sure, I agree it is LIKELY that they used pre-order money, but likely != true.  Unlikely != impossible.  Just because logic dictates it doesn't make it true, either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ausPKEMVk0
(just replace 'larry' with 'josh')   It might get some frustrations out

Hard to say, but consider that they still haven't earned themselves a scammer tag here it appears.

Perhaps because they aren't scammers...

I got my units, FPGAs and ASICs. Took a fucking long time for both, but I got them. They're not scammers in my eyes, jut inept.

PG, your ridiculous crusade against BFL is getting tiresome, and well, embarrassing.
Who are you trying to save?

Pics with todays newspaper or it didn't happen. lol

Obviously, I'm not trying to save those who receive their product. In fact, I'm no longer in the saving anybody game.

This outfit has done everything possible, sans delivering a few units, to prove themselves running a long con. As accomplished as they claimed to be, they should have had no problem getting in front of every single issue that arose, yet early on they opted to play the tough guy as soon as they got financially ahead of the game, then bringing on Josh to play asshole to a host of bitcoiners, eventually referrer to them as monumental assholes.

If a spokesperson makes a statement that such-and-such is a fact, then it's quickly proven that it's a lie, and about 8+ months of repeated requests to address the concerns to no prevail of a very, very simple matter, you have to ask yourself if they lie about something so utterly mundane, what the fuck else are they capable of lying about?

Just in case you're wondering what simple question I'm in reference to...


Now, try it yourself and see if you get the same response I, among others, have been getting--crickets.

Make sure you ask the question as simply as possible.

Like such:

Josh, what's the latest with the FCC certification?

As of yesterday, BF Labs Inc., et al. has yet to even submit a single submission to the FCC, for if they had, it would have shown up, even if they did such this pass Monday.

The issue is not whether BFL's miners need FCC certification or not. The issue is that BFL lied about submitting their miners (plural!) to the FCC, then opted to never reply to a single request as to what's the latest.

Their latest lie consist of claiming to be in full production, to the point that Jody creamed her pants expressing how they had such a productive day the other day, the first time she's done such since July 4, 2013, Full Production Day. In a press release it was stated that BFL is producing 300 units a day, yet not one iota of proof has been presented to show that they are even producing half that amount.

Josh stated, more than once, that BFL's warehouse was full of parts and all they were waiting on were chips. Yet, now they have a PSU shortage. I managed three restaurants, and not once during my tenure did any one of them ever run out of stock, and I did such without overstocker or effecting the food cost due to theft, spoilage, etc. And, the people working under me were not even 1/10 as smart as Josh, for I truly believe he is a bright guy, but we're not takin' brightness here.

Sonny is a very bright guy, as well as Jody being a bright woman. But probably so was Tom Williams, Thredon Shavers, Bernie Madoff, et al. But I digress.