Bitcoin Forum

Hi there. 

Here you have a good article. It's a recommended lecture if you want to understand those pump-dump waves:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-traders-pump-and-dump-cryptocurrencies-2017-11/#pump-and-dump-scams-are-coordinated-through-groups-and-channels-on-the-app-and-advertised-in-advance-2

Any opinions about this?

A pretty decent article, but needs more details. Whales also impact the price with the artificial walls and there are many pieces of information missing. It's not rocket science, but still.

I wont say that those pump and dump groups don't exist, and since crypto trading is so recent, and anyone can take part, we probably still see people getting scammed that way, but I think the effect of those groups are getting smaller and will soon disappear as the market liquidity increases. Big money investors don't need those groups, and they can move markets by themselves right now, and I think that a lot of the pump and dump we are seeing, is done by big whales. They move the market, create a hype around it, and then manage to slowly cash out as other join, because they thing a pumping is happening. All these things will decrease as soon as we have decent market makers in the exchanges, and it would be impossible for big whales, and pump groups to move the market.

Well pump and dump is all going to end soon once the crypto exchanges and the crypto market gets some big market makers because till now everyone is understood about the pump and dump games and how the big whales were making the market moves. Anyways thanks for sharing the nice article.

Pump and Dump group really exist but the way its being run makes it shady and the group admin is always at the one that benefit the most and the strategy is simple. Its a game of population, when you have all of them into a group, they mostly use telegram where some tips are released to get people stuck to them but really its not a tip but something with adequate study, a newbie can easily predict.

After that, all the group admin need to do is to identify the a not so popular coin in an exchange site, buy as much as possible, then start  wetting the appetite of your followers of the time it would be tip would be released and when that is done, the rat race begin, while the members are trying to buy forcing the price high, the admin is trying to sell while only few members benefit due to the right timing to dump, others becomes poorer.

And the uniqueness about this group is that, only the admin is allowed to post, only him knows group members, only him gives reviews by members, only him determines those who making profit or losses and finally only him can decide when to shut down the group.

Thanks for sharing this write up. It will surely help because the information therein is valid and valuable.

I don't know how they pump big values like ETH or LTC but to pump altcoins is possible with few bitcoins I think

Looks like the "traditional" world of finance and business writing are trying to up their game, using crypto speak. I suppose it's a good article, probably new to a lot of their readers. But I'd be very, very surprised if the same strategies they talk about aren't used in conventional trading instruments. After all, the same FUD and FOMO derived from stock brokers making panicked calls to each other, buying and selling (pumping and dumping).

Anyway, interesting read, but the groups they talk about are barely scratching the surface, and seem to organise pumps/dumps on small coins (I struggle to avoid "shitcoin"). They also need to know a lot of P/D groups actually fail, since they're mostly amateurs.

This forum actually has quite a good history of old threads with very well written p/d stories. And here's a less crisp article but on a deeper level from Hacker Noon for you conspiracy theorists!

https://hackernoon.com/meet-spoofy-how-a-single-entity-dominates-the-price-of-bitcoin-39c711d28eb4

Those groups do not target big coins like bitcoin, you need to be a whale to impact the price of bitcoin at all, what they are doing is to look for coins with a very low market cap, those that know what it is going to happen begin to buy coins without arising suspicion then they tell their followers the name of the coin they want pumped and then they cashout and they get the benefits while everyone else gets losses.

this is nothing new. you could find these same pump-and-dump tactics employed on penny stocks in the yahoo finance forums! this has been happening since the early days of litecoin, when fontas was using the btc-e trollbox to pump and dump the first generation altcoins. anyone remember fontas?! :P

i see advertisements and shills for these pump groups all the time today (indeed, they are mostly telegram groups and things like that). but the fact is they are too small to manipulate the market for any real length of time.

what the group operators are really doing is shilling their current holdings to their followers. then they dump everything on them. that's it.

And he forgot to say that most part of the pump & dumps scenarios are coming from telegram groups who have been "looking" to do those pumps and dumps before.

---

I joined a telegram signals group a few days ago, and all that they were giving on the Free chat were just signals, a few minutes after the price was suddenly pumped.

Guess what, you need to pay a membership of more than 0.02 btc a month to be able to join the premium chat and have access to receive the signals at the same moment as the other premium users.

It means that you will buy first, and the "free" members will pump the price and buy the alts that you bought before

That is pure science! Of course!.

Pump&dump doesn't really happen anymore in traditional markets. The regulators use a lot of automated tools to raise a red flag and alert a person to have a second look.

On the other hand the problems on the "traditional" markets are different:
- front running a client order in fx market(it was something ordinary until a few were put into prison).
- high frequency traders sending lots of new/canceled orders to affect the ask-bid microstructure.
- manipulating the LIBOR used as a benchmark/free risk rate for modelling/pricing of financial instruments in the $trillion derivatives market.
- opacity of dark pools.

Pump and dump organize by a group that work specially for pump and dump.
There are other option also, whales who have big capital play the market.

Thank you for the link - very interesting. Ghostbusters have caught Spoofy ;D Despite I do not believe that Bitfinex only is a lair of Spoofy gosts some graphs are representing very common activity for many big coins.
Telegram groups mentioned are giving right signals sometimes. But that's become really risky regarding small coins. Chances that community can be manipulated in this case are way too big. Also the amount of small coins cannot withstand such "community rush" without extreme jumps.

These pump and dump groups will not choose those high demand coins because once prices go high there will be a people who bought earlier than these guys may start dumping coins then it will reduce profit to those group admins so they cleverly accumulate at low volume coins in advance and after pump announcement they start selling at higher price and buyers will lose money.

Is a good example when a coin goes up a lot very quickly? 

Pump and dump is usually done in altcoin markets and even there are services which provide pumping of a coin.Especially,it is used to pump newly released coins in the market to get a good start.They mostly do such pumps and dumps in newly released coins.

I ever read an article, it said in the trading, some people do the price manipulation (pump or dump), maybe 80 or 85%. They always do that to get the trader.

And how you can be so sure that no longer happens, it may be illegal now to use pump and dump tactics on traditional markets but that does not mean it is not happening, if we take into account all the money that is at stake and human greed then it is very obvious to me that is still happening, just look at the ponzi scheme by Madoff he scammed a lot of money with a very old tactic.

Well,the pump and dumps i saw couldn't really affect the price of the currency significantly and more over the coins that were pumped are either very new on the market or not a solid and established currency like the mainstream ones we know.Funnily,it is easy to become a bag holder from such schemes especially for noobs.

Would someone tweeting about a coin and they have lot of people read his tweets to drive the price up and then you buy it during the pump... then sell it once it 2x or 3x constitute a pump or not?

Increasing the popularity of a coin is a natural thing, so it can increase a person's level of confidence in the coin because with more people talking about the coin it will make things more convincing. To pump and dump must use a lot of money, not everyone can do that. A trader who has the ability will usually be able to easily gain profit because he controls almost all market activity, but it also actually hurt a lot of people because that benefits only a few people while most will lose when the coin price is dumped.

Social media and fake news in the crypto space can be a powerful tool. We have seen recently lots of fake story's false information and more tricks to attempt to manipulate the price.
One of the worst things that is going on is not pump and dump mentality its the constant spamming of transactions on the blockchain by a few groups who are trying there dam hardest to inflate the fee for miners and to process only spam transactions into blocks while the general public suffer and think why bother.

The smart ones out there see that this is a ploy by some to force users to sell there coins and jump onto another "chain".

Those schemes are the nature of these markets nothing new.

trading is not pump and dump ,real traders not to invest pump wall,i think pumping is not good crypto world,

Exactly it is impossible for those small groups to manipulate the price of bitcoin or other big alts, for that you need to be a whale, most of the time pump and dump groups concentrate their efforts in coins with a few millions in market cap or even a lower market cap, then they begin to slowly buy coins and when they are ready they tell other members of their group and then they get their profits.

However if there are whales on such groups who makes FUD over the dumps or pumps then maybe can affect the market but not in huge impact, some were really due to news occuring on exchanges or banning in some countries. No one can manipulate the alts since there are many factors need to consider.

Interesting, so basically they bump and dump coins in group buys to earn , is likely a hack on the trade system.

there are SO MANY of these scamming pump and dump groups out there now its ridiculous how gullible and desperate people are.

These telegram channels have 2000-100000+ members in them all eager to buy whatever they are told. These groups always know the coin way ahead of time and
will buy it much earlier. On top of that they want your BTC (a lot) for 'VIP' or 'Premium' membership BS where you are now going to get the signal ahead of the rest
of the group and they also encourage you to spam the shit out of the group so you can 'Level up' as an affiliate to get an upper hand.

Obviously the ONLY one benefiting is the admins here, a few might get lucky and be able to buy and sell when the announce but it is far more likely
you will not buy in the low in time and will be stuck with a worthless coin at a loss. I don't know how these people fall for it or fork out .5 BTC to some random ass on telegram or why this world is filled with so many
asshole scammers that just seem to love what they do.

Anyways rant over. There are 'Some' groups that give decent short/mid term signals that can be profitable.

There was a video on how best to execute pump and dump trades on cryptopia:
https://vimeo.com/250201759 (https://vimeo.com/250201759)

I think you really need a bot / trading program to have a chance at this with sliding scale profits and auto buy/sell orders ready.

I recently had a little look into the Pump and Dump world - needless to say, I am not en-Lambo'd after it.

I posted my experience on the Beginner board, but it seems relevant here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2876163.msg29604774#msg29604774

H.

Pump&Dump strategy is actually not so bad idea. Question is, wants the admin of the group do huge manipulation, or he can only take money from the group members. I'm looking for some members to try difficult way - really to manipulate the price on some trashcoins, not for 3 minutes, but much longer. Only one problem is - it should be hundreds of alive members to do such thing, because we have not enough money...

This pump and dump is somehow a preplanned thing and the ones who are planning such kind of thing holds a major portion of the crypto market and that is why they manage to make such kind of decision. At time they want the market value to go down, they start selling their crypto coins which result in decrease in the demand as well.

At time they want to make more money, they start buying more number of coins and ask more people to come and invest in it.

Sure that admins make the highest profit here, they buy on dip and they sell on top, everyone else buy and sell in the middle. The ones who are close to admins are the next in line, and how you say more far from admin less profit it is, and until the end of the line people are short. No one lose everything here, people invest 100 dollars and get out with 70, they think they were late and they watch carefully for next signal.
There are too many pump and dump groups, with so many followers. You don't need a trading bot, you need to be close to your lap top and ready for action. I tried to follow some pump and dump group couple times with some little investment but I didn't have good results, but I believe that some people earn good money on this, some, while others lose, but its like that in everything else.

I must say that pump and dump groups are one the worst things that could ever happen to you unless you "actually" know what you are doing. If you are a beginner and if you are thinking to join one of these channels/groups to make a good profit in crypto then I will advise you not to. First of all, it's not trading it is manipulation. I have lost quite a goof amount as a newbie in crypto which is why I stay away from it and advise others the same. But if you are an expert and what to play around with it and if you know what you are going to do then you can try your luck with it. Not to mention that you will loose your money if you are a minute late in the pump.

A decent article and thanks for sharing it here in the forum.

Groups that pumps and dumps. Sure, they do exist but it doesnt mean we have to go with it too.
At the end of the day, they all not work and somehow you will be left at the end to trade which makes it a lost. You need to be always updated by them and sometimes it means to not sleep.
I will still prefer my own instinct which is still working up until now.  ;D Advises are good but you will be the one to decide.

I saw many telegram groups for this, is it even legal?

The traders who has lots of stakes with them are very influential has the ability to do this kind of stuff and it required lot of power and risk.

Not a surprising thing which you can eventually find lots of this telegram groups which do claim to be pump and dump groups but actually they are just using out new people to buy those already pumped coins and then suddenly dumped down and leaving those new users behind on losing up money. Its not really legal in any sense since its just like a swindling for me but we do know this cryptoworld where anything cant really be easily to traced up.

When you intend to control something you need to access it. And this access must be more than a normal access to every other person related to this thing. Like in case here, bitcoins are public, no one is controlling them, and still they are emphasized by the effect of whales in this market. Whales are always trying to grab the market under their own way, but definitely they can’t make it up.

Admins getting more prices and the others don’t get such profit, I don’t think so this is right. I don’t know much about this forum and how people are getting profit here, but what I believe bitcoins are open to everyone and anyone can get as much profit as he wants, just the best efforts to put and wait for good words. But definitely I can be wrong. All those who deals with it better know.

Of course they do that.the whales have enough investments to play with the market.
when they want to dump a coin they sell some of their own , and to pump a coin they make some buy wall in market.
other people work as they want.

PumpKing Community." It is one of many groups on the messaging app that appear to be dedicated to "pump and dumps" — coordinated buying that artificially inflates the price of cryptocurrencies, in the hopes of attracting outside buyers to then "flip" the currency onto at a profit. Other Telegram groups include Pump.im, Crypto4Pumps, We Pump, and AltTheWay.
Cryptocurrency markets remain largely unregulated and so these schemes aren't technically illegal — yet. However, the same schemes are illegal in the regulated markets that cover assets like stocks and bonds.

if you discuss the pump and dump for cryptocurrency it seems that it will bot you loss and make you as their slave telling you to buy the coin they announced. better self-confidence and self-analysis of existing conditions and graphs.

There's a exchange for example BIttrex Binance HItBTC Bitfinex etc, and theres alts and BCT there and a person put fiat or BTC and they exchange for altcoins.

Of course big whales traders do it but it is a good for us, and also you and me, not a big whale but we are also a part of this game, and we also do it when bitcoin price pump then we sell our bitcoin and make profit and when bitcoin price dump then we buy the bitcoin. So enjoy this up and down and make profit in this wise, and now bitcoin pump is starting and it will be chanced for us to make profit from it.   

I also heard it, the most responding Exchanger with this issue is bittrex.
at that time bittrex locked fake accounts coming from different countries to prevent price manipulation by pump or dump.

Hi friends don't fall in pump and dump shit you will only lose , buy coins which pumps slowly and gradually  with proper team and  project behind them ,if are confused which coin to buy which not to buy then I would like to share my channel with you its free and all my calls moon very fast, not lots of calls few calls but all of them touch the moon, no lot of talking needed see results and decide urslef , I don't have any greed , all I want is to help those who have lost so much as I once lost so much but nobody helped , I don't want this to happen with the ones who are in need hence I share u the invite link https://t.me/bullseyecrypto

Well they have to have sufficient number of btcs to move the price. Aside from whales, some telegram groups make use of their members to pump or dump a coin. They take advatage of people who are too lazy to make their own studies