Bitcoin Forum

Look at it with clear and open eyes.

We now have people in here paying 60-88USD transaction fees, and are still not sure to get the transactions confirmed.

This is because the miners now know that the collapse is close. Therefore for them to make as much money as possible the fees become extremely high. They win on this two times:

Partly because the BTC investors have to pay astronomical fees

Partly - and more importantly - all the small BTC investors simply cannot pay these fees without losing their whole investment.

Small BTC investors are therefore now becoming "locked" and cannot get out while the miners try to get their profits up as much as possible before the collapse.

Think about it - if the miners truly believed this would continue, they would not destroy the system by increasing fees so much. But they know the collapse is coming, and are now cashing out while trapping the smaller investors.

GTHO

Sorry. Miners don't set the fees. Users do.

They are the ones benefitting

Miners have absolutely no control over the fees. It's natural market behavior. Lots of people need confirmations, and miners can only give a limited amount. Hence, the price for confirmations go up. It turns into a bidding war.

There is no conspiracy here. If anything, this tells us there's more demand than the network can handle, but that's also bad. This has been expected, which is why Bitcoin Cash was born, and why Segwit2x was planned. The scaling problem was bound to materialize eventually, and it already has, but fixes are already on the way. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Its shows clearly you didn't well-understood the subject and have a limited knowledge. The miners have a zero control over the fees.

They are the ones choosing to process the highest fees first

People are paying outrageous fee to get faster confirmation and miners enjoying free bitcoin as profit.

Still many services like exchanges havent updated their wallet to segwit even though they are ready to implement it. If both receiving and sending address is segwit addresses than we can still save 40-50% in transaction fee

It is a bidding war between all the users who want to have their transactions confirmed quickly. The current Bitcoin can only process limited amount to of transactions every second, so the people who pay higher fees gets their transactions processed earlier. It is only natural for fees to rise. Also, the fees shouldn't be measured in USD. The Bitcoin price is high so in USD value the fees will appear higher.

If miners have control in our profits they why we are still earning from it? The high transaction fees I guess, is because of the price of bitcoin from the market itself.

how much did you invest in bitcoin? $1?
normal person invest at least a couple of hundred dollars. lets say $100. in a month price has gone up more than 100% which means your investment is now worth $200+

how much do you pay for fees? $12? $16? $30 (that is 900 satoshi/byte)?
my math is not good but i think $30 is bigger than $100 profit!!!

For what I believed the miners cant set the price or declare a specific margin to gain profit. They mine bitcoin but they can't control the price of what they mined, unless they place those bitcoins in the exchange and sell it there in a much higher price on what the market demands. The price depends on how many people who trade bitcoin are willing to buy and sell bitcoins, those prices are averaged and become the market price.

Miners have to convert most of their BTC into fiat to pay for their costs, regardless of market conditions.
Miners do not set the fees.
They always decide to choose the transactions with the highest fees first - that's how the fee market works.  Even when zero-fee transactions were plausible, they always prioritised the transactions with the highest fees.  They still can't control the fees.

For what I trusted the mine workers cannot set the cost or announce a particular edge to pick up benefit. They mine bitcoin however they can't control the cost of what they mined, unless they put those bitcoins in the trade and offer it there in a significantly higher cost on what the market requests. The cost relies upon what number of individuals who exchange bitcoin will purchase and offer bitcoins, those costs are arrived at the midpoint of and turn into the market cost.

It makes a little bit of a difference to me now that I see the transaction fee, I just want to keep the coins somewhere instead of selling them.

What ? they are surely making the congestion doing zero fee transactions, were have you been  the last month ?

Is it possible that more miners are needed right now to ease the transaction process and lower the transaction fees? The fees right now is really high. LOL

I think it is normal if the fees getting higher because the price of bitcoin now increases higher and if we don't pay the fee, how the transaction can get confirmed? but the problem is the time to get confirmed that will wait too long if the fee is small. I think the big fee is to cover the confirming of the transaction so the transaction can deliver without waiting too long. maybe we can decrease the fee but bitcoin price will be decreased too.

Something is going on and the OP could well be right but I also think this might have something
to do with the ten big wig miners who now control 90% of all transactions and the Segwit fork
that is now going ahead on the 28th of December 2017 and has been blocked by the mejia or
it too is just part of a scam to stop people selling BTC so they get in on the fork that might never
happen. Clearly people are upset and something is going to give, you can feel it


Yes and we are going to jump ship because we don't like being held by the balls and our money being kept in limbo
land by these miners for days on end.

Happy to know you like a free market and the users you speak about are often whales like Coinbase who dont give real
users the option of setting the price

No Mr Police officer sir, i just pointed a gun in his face and he started to thrown money from his pockets at me
and i didn't even need to tell him to do so because it's Christmas time, he felt so generous that he got carried away
and threw the money with such force that it hit me in the eye and I want charges pressed for assault please.

$0.06 at the beginning of the year to $50.00+ is daylight robbery and I can assure you there will be a cost

What, do you suggest that you expect them to choose the lowest fees first?  Or do you expect them to ignore fees?  Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

Each block has a certain capacity, calculated by block weight.  Only 4000000 bytes of weight will fit in a block, pursuant to the equation set forth in BIP 141 and the static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_WEIGHT declared in src/consensus/consensus.h (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/1e65f0f3396d5d7eaa8e8dd3668dfa180b541c18/src/consensus/consensus.h#L14).  If there are too many transactions to fit, then miners have only one sensible way to choose:  Pick the transactions which offer higher fees per weight unit.  From the miner’s perspective, anything else would be throwing money away.  What do you really expect them to do?


Graded F- in the analogies section.

In fact, the current high fees are due to the rising number of bitcoins and the increasing number of transactions, so miners cannot be blamed. Expect new solutions to deal with transaction fees.

When the price of bitcoin is low vs dollars, it's ok when the transaction fee is 0.001 - 0.002 BTC or more than that. And now the price of bitcoin is too high and expensive as well. The transaction fee is the same before and nothing change. You blame the miners that they get more profit in the fee you pay because you trying to convert your fee in to dollars but as you can see the transaction fee in bitcoin is the same as before. They don't have a control in it, don't blame them.

Yes it is true they prioritize the higher fee than the lower, regardless if you're the last one.

Hyphotetically talking miners could spam worthless transactions on the network to make it overloaded, making legit users have to pay expensive fees for their transactions, so indirectly miners could influence the fees size. However I don't think they would do it in a big scale that would ruin Bitcoin and their business...

These one of the reasons why bitcoin price turning down again because this huge transaction fees which is killings the earners imagine the cost of the transaction much higher than the bitcoin or USD you are going to send to your love ones.

Its true that miners don't set the transaction fee.But it is also true that we have earlier heard that some miners sending bitcoin with very low transaction fees that the network getting congested.But it will be only up to a limited level.

Mostly,users want their transactions to get confirmed quickly and so they are ready to pay any amount of higher fee  to get their transaction confirmed.Also when BC price reached ATH price of 20,000,many rushed to sell bitcoins and they paid very high fee since they felt that this price would only last for small time temporarily.When bitcoin price rises from $5,000 to almost $20,000 and if they had bought it at $5,000 price,then they would not be feeling any difficulty in paying hundreds of dollars for confirming transaction.

That's the main reason for such a high rise in transaction fee.

Indeed, Miners don't have control and user have the chance to set the transaction fee but with limited range only but of course the lower the user set the longer the transaction can get confirmation and the higher the price set by user the fastest it can get confirmation in short they are being prioritize but again the speed of transaction still depends on the blockchain traffic.

It happened before when the Bitcoin Cash price pump in a week and Bitcoin price fell they have to send huge traffic to Bitcoin network to make fee high, transaction take longer and price fall.

What makes the bitcoin value down is not the new miners, but the new investors. The miners are just trying to get the bitcoin as much as possible. New investors who are attracted to the higher bitcoin prices think that if they risk their money being paid they will get a lot of profits quickly.
But they do not realize that what they are doing is destroying the market price, and this makes all parties losers including the new investors themselves.

Hardly. They don't mind a transaction with 10 sat fees, but as per priority they choose to include to more fees one before. Technically if every single transaction was sent with 1 sat/byte fees then that will become the normal fees.

the truth is that the collection of these commissions are very chaotic for us new bitcoin enthusiasts will adopt other currencies so that those miners do not harm us with their exec charges

fees will keep raising since there always will be somebody who would pay ANY fee for the tx. and btc will end up (its already by vast of the definition) an investment platform and not daily payment system. bch became a daily platform in a heartbeat and btc didn't really lost any value. it will be more observable in next few months. all you need to keep btc price up is to keep something smaller (ltc/bch) for minor txs. ltc will fly high very soon as well since bch fees already through the roof.

Technically, if every single transaction was sent with a 1 sat/byte fee, then the large mining farms would shut down, difficulty would plummet—and Bitcoin would lose its Byzantine fault-tolerant security against double-spends and rewriting of the blockchain history.

FEES HELP KEEP THE NETWORK SAFE.  The higher the value of Bitcoin, the more safety it needs.  The higher the potential profit or miners, the more heavily miners compete with each other—thus raising difficulty—thus making it more difficult, and astronomically more expensive for any entity to perform a “51% attack” and the like.

Bitcoin did not need high mining difficulty, when it was a toy and every bitcoin was worth 30¢.  Then, yes, it was fine for difficulty to be low so that anybody could mine on a desktop PC’s CPU.  Now that the network protects the exchange-value equivalent of hundreds of billions of dollars, it needs commensurately high hashrate.

Most people do not understand how the fee market interacts with the security of Bitcoin.

     Just look at the meaning of the word Miner. Just think what was the rule of miners? Miners are just miner,they dont have control in our profit and earnings. And the fees on every bitcoin transaction it is based on the price of bitcoin in the market.

As the value of bitcoin increases so do the fees we all want bitcoin to be worth alot but are not happy with the fees. Many of us were aware of transaction fees but as more people start to use bitcoin they will see this as a big issue it is the newer people to bitcoin we have to thank for the rise in value. Unfortunately transaction fees do come with that rise.

Transaction fee isn't a problem if you look at BTC as an investment, who on earth would users for frequent payments? It's not suited for regular payments at this moment. Hopefully lnd will change this.

Miners all over world and you choose fee you control it not them.

if we all stop send bitcoin miners will accept with any price "last week all sell so that fee was high"

I know right, miners are asking so much funds right now and it is not healthy for the people. Right now we are paying an inhumane transaction fee these days. I can't believe we are having this kind of suffering. When will this end? And I noticed that whenever the price of bitcoin goes up, the fee is up also.

The transaction fees have been increased and the time for a transaction to get a confirmation can be so long too. Bitcoin isn't good choice for regular movement. It is better to use alts for such movement while keep bitcoin in a safer place for later use.

Isn't this the truth. Just ignore FrightJoe, and submit transactions with lower fees. Let the CryptoMafia waste their money trying to destabilise Bitcoin

Miners just chose to confirm transactions sent with high fees. Users determine fees not miners.
Due to network congestion, users add high fees to ensure their transactions get confirmed in a short time.
So, your theory about Bitcoin going to collapse is wrong.
If all transactions are forwarded with less fees, miners will be forced to accept them and add them to the blockchain.

Go ahead, sell all your bitcoins to the rest of us and get out. You can run to any one of hundreds of altcoins. If you looked with clear open eyes, you'd see this is a short-term issue due to protection against short-term spam attacks against the network.

Please educate yourself and understand bitcoin's network is under attack by very well-funded institutions/exchanges via spam attacks. Bitcoin has been under attack almost all of 2017 and has done fine because it is very expensive to sustain any long-term attacks thus these attacks are always short-term. The higher the fees, the less longer an attack can be sustained. The fees will go down drastically with the use of cross-chain lightning network-like implementations - hopefully there will be a couple of competing open-source implementations of these by this time next year.

Those trying to undermine and manipulate bitcoin stem from the central bank system around the world;
-the central banks dictate policy to all the operating big banks around the world and have essentially tried their best to ban bitcoin related transactions for more than four years straight, ever since 2013, and have failed at stopping bitcoin's growth, adoption, and popularity
-the central banks fund efforts to undermine bitcoin, providing plenty of capital and liquidity to private companies and venture backed groups such as Digital Currency Group (DCG: they own Coinbase, GDAX, Kraken, Bitpay, and media outlet Coindesk) and Roger Ver/Bitmain to undermine and break the bitcoin protocol and/or manipulate trade

Above are just small examples.

First, educate yourself and then others. Please checkout the link to the bitcointalk post in my signature titled: How to teach Bitcoin to a 7 year old.

Bitcoin is a secure, decentralized, trustless and open system which cannot be banned nor controlled.
 
Bitcoin is ultimate store of value and its popularity has strengthened over time and maximizes value compared to any other altcoin...why?:
If it can be shutdown, and have assets frozen by a bank or government, there would be no value
If it wasn't secure, there would be no value.
If it wasn't immutable, there would be no value.
If it wasn't globally distributed, there would be no value.
If it wasn't so strong, open-source decentralized and unstoppable, there would be no value.
If it wasn't so scarce, there would be no value.
If it was easy to spam transactions, there would be no value
If it required a central 3rd party to function, there would be no value
If it was stopped after all major banks on Earth banned in 2013 to today, there would be no value. (say "bitcoin" when transacting and watch the block of the transaction. simple fix=never mention "bitcoin").
If it didn't have the history of 8+ years (and still no hacker can exploit bitcoin blockchain), there would be no value
If it was exactly like fiat and only did transactions, there would be no value.

Bitcoin's value is worth hundreds of billions USD today. Altcoins however are scams, weak, pyramid schemes not offering these values.

Bitcoin has all the characteristics needed combined to hold the most value and increasing more than any other financial-asset option coming from the manipulated fiat central-banking debt-system. (more than stocks, more than houses, more than gold)

Extra graphics to indicate the worldwide impact on the emergence of bitcoin in its infancy today:

Chart of performance of assets from Xmas 2014 to Dec 1. 2017 (in USD terms):
Bitcoin/USD
S&P 500 Stocks
Real Estate (REITs)
Gold
Bonds

http://i63.tinypic.com/nvphuf.png


Here are weekly peer-to-peer localbitcoins cash trade data for two random countries as time goes on. Right-most area is the most recent past week.
https://s9.postimg.org/g5b8qe99r/deletepeterscreenshot.png

It does not matter how many low fee transactions they send. The higher fee ones will get processed with priority and traders paying the high fees. I don't think it's any "spam attack" just network filled, people pay high fee, miners process those in order of fee paid.

This fees are outrageous and also more time is being spent before coins will finally reach their wallet destinations. It is really killing.

Is it not killing the idea of No Gateway, No middle Man, No fee kind of idea which took inception with BTC ?