Bitcoin Forum

Update 08/01/2013

There's been no interest at this price point for a group buy, considering more than 3 makes it pointless to add a step in.  Therefore I've decided to go ahead and close it up.  I'll be watching the Nano landscape closely, and you may see me attempting to start up a group buy somewhere else if there is a need.

Thanks for the votes of confidence to those who were willing to jump in early.

---

So I've decided to take the plunge and go ahead and start taking names and quantities for the group buy.  I'm building in the cost of 2 miners into the price so I get a little compensation for putting this together and executing it well.  I'll also be purchasing 2 of my own.

Please remember that the risk you are taking is not only with me, but with Bicknellski and his company Big Picture Mining.  I've contacted John K for escrow, and I am hoping he will accept my request, so I've built his 2.5% escrow fee into everything.

Our first target is 50 miners.  According to the Bicknellski Website (https://bigpicturemining.com/klondike-miner), miners are currently priced at $49.99.  Should we receive pledges for more than 50, we'll recalculate shipping from Indonesia and retarget at 100 miners.  If we don't get 50 miners, I'll dissolve the group buy and return any already commited funds.  Bigger is better here, folks.

Breakdown:

Miners:$49.99 * 50 = $2499.50
Handling: $4.95
Shipping to USA: $90.00
Shipping to USA: $40.00
Subtotal: $2594.45
Subtotal: $2544.45

Escrow Service: (2594.45 * .025) = $64.87
Escrow Service: (2544.45 * .02) = $50.89

Total before shipping: $2659.32 / 48 = $55.41 per unit.

Total before shipping: $2595.34 /48 = $54.07 per unit.

Shipping will be done USPS First Class with tracking for up to 10 miners and is only available to the continental US at quoted prices.  Other locations PM me for quotes.

Shipping for 1 unit will be $3.25.  Add $.75 for each additional miner up to 10.  

I'll only ship in units of 10 to mitigate risk of loss or damage.  If you want 20 I'll send you 2 boxes.


All of these prices are subject to change should Big Picture Mining change it's policies.  

I will update this thread once a day (barring unforeseen emergencies) even if no progress is made.  I know what it's like to be left in the dark and I won't do that, even if I have nothing to report.

Please PM me or post in this thread your pledge.  When/If John K provides us escrow, we can begin collecting money.

I'll be working out how to take bitcoin while mitigating my own risk, since Bicknellski has pegged his price to USD.

Let's get started.  46 left.

---

Update 1 2013-07-26

33 already vouched for.  17 left to hit the 50 mark.

Tracking sheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApT7WUJuJCwMdDBtN2VSNXhxczgxT2toWVhXb1ZlbXc#gid=0

Update 2 2013-07-263

Currently, even should we reach 50, we are holding on the following points:

• Waiting on John K to respond for escrow
• Waiting on Bicknellski to finalize shipping methods & costs (website is under maintenance)
• Trying to figure out how to mitigate bitcoin volatility risk when using escrow

For bullet point three, one way to go is to take payments for a specific low exchange rate (say 1 BTC = $75) and then refund back any extra after the transaction.  I'm unfamiliar with this process when using escrow.  If I was receiving the money directly I would probably use Bitpay or just sell on the exchange myself (which would mean another little bit on top to pay for exchange fees), but I understand that escrow eases people's minds.  Any ideas or suggestions would be welcome.

Also, I'm not sure what the shipment from Indonesia will cost as far as customs is concerned.  That would also have to be included in the price.  

Update 3 2013-07-26

John K has accepted the request for an escrow service, and his fee is only 2% as opposed to the 2.5% I quoted before.  In addition, Big Picture Mining's site has fixed their shipping costs, and for an order of 50 the cost is $40.00 (not including customs fees). If anyone familiar with receiving packages internationally can give us an idea of what customs costs will/might be, I'll incorporate an estimate into the spreadsheet.

All pledges and price changes updated in the spreadsheet and in OP.

Update 4 2013-07-26

Just checked; if we get 100 miners, shipping is $65.  This would bring the price to $52.76 each before shipping.

Update 5 2013-07-26

This group buy will be accepting bitcoin only.  I can't be held responsible for chargebacks; I don't have the funds to do so.  I'm currently trying to ascertain the best way to collect bitcoin so as to hedge my own risk of receiving it.  Hopefully John K has some experience here; if it was me I would just take bitpay and convert to dollars, or worst case, just sell the bitcoin to convert to fiat.  Suggestions are welcome.

It's unfortunate that Bicknellski is pegging his miner's price to USD, but bitcoin is still pretty volatile so I don't fault him for it.

---

Update 1 2013-07-27

So far the best option for accepting payments is to over-estimate the cost and offer refunds for overages.

Therefore, I will price each unit at BTC.64 which does not include shipping to you.  Since Bicknellski's website takes bitcoin, the price you end up paying will be determined based on the actual cost of the miners.  Once we near completion, we can make another assessment and see how far off the mark we are.  I've updated the spreadsheet to show conversion to BTC.
  
I'll be sending John K my identity verification in the morning when I can take some pictures.

Update 2 2013-07-27

Bicknellski and Big Picture Mining have updated their shipping policies again.  They now have EMS Shipping available.  Here is the most up to date comparison of the group buy vs direct purchase from Big Picture Mining using EMS shipping (which is cheaper for small amounts of units):

Num Miners	Group Buy	Direct	Difference
1:	$57.32	$70.95	$13.63 ($13.63 each)
2:	$112.14	$120.94	$8.80 ($4.40 each)
3:	$166.96	$175.35	$8.39 ($2.80 each)
4:	$221.78	$225.34	$3.56 ($0.89 each)
5:	$276.60	$275.33	-$1.27 (-0.26 each)

At this point the only reason I can see to participate in this group buy is if you only want between 1 and 3.  At four the price difference doesn't really warrent the extra step of shipping to me.  As long as the price difference for one remains the same I'll continue the group buy.

---

Update 1 2013-07-28

Escrow service has been set up.  Please send your bitcoin to 1JtPi2MbvCuMvBGT7VeyoyBcoGLTHYYYDp to secure your place in the group buy.  John will send payment to Bicknellski once we've got 50.  Thanks John!

I am in for 4

At least 4 for me  8)  Maybe more if we have another week to send BTC  ;D

Ill take 10

I'll take 3

Is Canada completely excluded  :-\?

I will let you know guys as soon as chips hit our shores and personally take them in hand to Batam from Jakarta. Fingers crossed these chips start landing soon not just for our K1 production but for every DIY builder out there. We need the CHIPS AVALON we need those chips ASAP.

EDIT:

As a COOP we have quite a few chip buys we are part of different members spread worldwide... so my chips are not only the candidates for the earlier chips we are expecting. Hoping the other members get lucky with Avalon shipping as well.

I'm in... can afford 5 now... more as BTC rolls in.

Put me down for 5, but I need to have priority shipping (neighborhood sucks, they actually knock for priority boxes).

PM Sent


I think we've got a week; Bicknellski doesn't have chips in hand yet.


Thanks Bicknellski; I appreciate the personal attention.  Definitely bodes well for confidence levels.


PM Sent


I've put together a tracking sheet.  You can find it here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApT7WUJuJCwMdDBtN2VSNXhxczgxT2toWVhXb1ZlbXc#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApT7WUJuJCwMdDBtN2VSNXhxczgxT2toWVhXb1ZlbXc#gid=0)

In for 1. When is payment due?

Will notify; still working escrow and shipping out with John K and Bicknellski, respectively.

All; please watch the OP for updates.  They will occur below the OP, in chronological order, marked by date and post number.  Post number will reset every day, and every day will be delimited with a horizontal rule.  In addition, from this point forward (for those using bitcointalk's watch thread feature), I will reply with a new post every time OP is updated.

OP Updated.  Prices modified downward.

I'll just order directly from them. Please remove me from this GB.

At current prices, it's cheaper to buy 6 directly and pay shipping ($328.99) than it is to buy through this GB ($331.42).

So it is.  Removed.

So shipping prices on Bicknellski's page have changed.

Here's a breakdown of costs:

Num Miners	Group Buy	Direct	Difference
1:	$57.32	$79.04	$21.72 ($21.72 each)
2:	$112.14	$129.03	$16.89 ($8.46 each)
3:	$162.21	$179.02	$16.81 ($5.60 each)
4:	$221.78	$229.01	$7.23 ($1.81 each)
5:	$276.60	$279.00	$2.40 ($.48 each)
6:	$331.42	$328.99	-$2.43 (-$.40 each)

For 1-4 miners, looks like the group buy is worth it.  After that it's a toss up.  For $2.40 I'd probably get it shipped directly to me.  Let me know.

Hmm how gard is it to get these setup. With all the guides out it was pretty easy with cgminer for the USB eruptors

Evidently BKKCoins has a version of CGMiner that works with these.  I'd bet when they get released into the wild the other mining programs will release revisions to make them compatible.  They're supposed to be plug and play.

Any link or where to download the cgminer for these?

Not sure.  I believe it's discussed in BKKCoin's thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.0

OP updated; this is a BITCOIN ONLY group buy.  I don't have the funds to absorb a chargeback from Paypal.  I'm still trying to figure out how to mitigate risk.  John K has done a bunch of escrows, so hopefully he has some experience.  Suggestions are welcome.

I was under the impression I could pay with USD since that is what prices were in. Unfortunately you will have to remove my order since I don't have any btc to spend.

We will be using CGminer developed by BKKCoins for the Klondike as mentioned in the GitHub for burn in and testing. As more of the community gets these in hand I suspect that other mining software will be available as well. Remember throw some BTC to Kano and Cklovas for their support of the CGminer. Note that Kano has helped a great deal with guidance and support to BKKCoins while he was working on the software. Make sure if you use CGminer to also support him with some coins as he deserves as much support as BKKCoins for this project. I suspect further improvements will be coming depending on volume of K1s and K16s out in the wild from people wanting to optimize and further OC the units.

Will the K1 Nano have a Avalon ASIC chip on it or will we have to provide the chip? If we do provide the chip how much will you sell a K1 Nano for?

These units will be complete.

Heat Sink
Flashed PIC
Avalon Chip
Casing with Big Picture Mining Cooperative logo
24 hour burn in test and QC testing

You will receive a full functional miner ready to go from the fabricator.

Bicknellski, Thank You for your quick reply  :) I'm interested 

You are welcome... talk to BigBen... he can help you out.

I understand.  I'm sorry I didn't make that clear sooner. 

PM received, Thank You BigBen  :)

jesse11: No problem.  I'm trying to be responsive; I hate group buys with an unresponsive organizer.

OP updated with pricing information in BTC

OP updated with info regarding new Big Picture Mining shipping options.

Sign me up for 2 please.

Done.

Hi,
With the updated shipping costs. I will just buy directly.  Please take me off the GB list.
Thanks for organizing this!  I do appreciate your efforts. Donation Sent.

Cheers!

Much appreciated.  Your name has been removed.  Thanks for showing a little faith in a fellow bitcoiner though, I appreciate it.

Not sure where would be best to ask, but I'm sure others are wondering as well. How does the overclocking work on these? Is it done through the firmware, or just a command switch when staring CG miner?

Just wondering since I was seriously considering ordering 5+ of these from the direct site, but would like to know the likelihood of being able to get them to 333Gh/s to at least match the Erupters since they just had a price reduction to around $50. At 55 each shipped these just don't seem like as good of a deal unless they can at least match or better yet surpass the Erupters.


Thanks!  :)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The escrow address for bigbeninlondon's group buy is:

1JtPi2MbvCuMvBGT7VeyoyBcoGLTHYYYDp

Please state and agree to the conditions (if item is received damaged, item lost with tracking, customs fee etc) beforehand.

If possible, GPG sign your agreement to prevent any discrepancies later on and please ship with tracking to prevent problems during delivery.
GPG signing is not a requirement, and any verbal exchange in the form of private messages or posts on bitcointalk.org, or email is effective as a statement of condition.

Do note that I am only responsible for the funds up to the point it is sent to Avalon.
Any losses incurred by Avalon's or bigbeninlondon's failure to ship/reship will not be borne by me, but I will release the following data to aid in litigation actions.

In addition to that, I confirm the receipt of:

1) bigbeninlondon's DL
2) Photo of bigbeninlondon at his door
3) Photo of a statement addressed to bigbeninlondon

The fine print:
This Contract is solely generated for the purpose of facilitating the transaction between the seller and the buyer, which refers to the pseudonyms used on bitcointalk.org.
The escrow holder, John, assumes and gives no liability or guarantees on the satisfaction of all parties involved, although he agrees to mediate and facilitate the deal to the fullest extent he is capable of.  On the event that any problems arises, he will release the escrow to whichever party that presents him with the most convincing proof and/or after an open discussion with others or theymos. 
The verbal acceptance by both parties (or the failure to reject) and the sending of Bitcoins to the escrow address above constitutes the acceptance of the terms and conditions stated, and the activation of this Contract.

Please understand that I am assuming the risk of holding the escrowed Bitcoins, and I am using my own time to facilitate this transaction.   
I am imposing a fixed and nonrefundable fee of 2% for this transaction, to be deducted when the funds are moved.

Thank you.

John (the escrow holder)
28 July 2013
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The OC has already been tested see my thread for info or on BKKCoins thread. K1s have achieved 350 Mh/s. You asked this in two different threads. Hope you saw my answer in the other.

Note that at 49.99 plus shipping it is a GREAT deal and with OC at 350 possibly and easily done with the CGminer software that BKKCoins has done might want to be careful making those sorts of statements. For month BE's have been way over priced. They dropped their prices 2x after we came into the market at .99, .89 and .79 and then when we went to .53 BTC. I would think that we are the only thing right now that is getting your BE prices in check. 40% off in 1 week later from our price being posted? You are welcome BE buyers you are welcome.

^^ Truth.  Especially when something smells fishy with the BE re-seller/group owner chain, or at least one link, right now. :/

Payment address is posted!  Start sending payment asap.

whats the eta on ship date? are any price drops planned? block erupters are currently .55btc @ $95USD = $52.25... and 330mhs vs 256

Looking at mid August for shipping I believe.  


I don't think any price drops are planned.  Also, K1's are overclockable to 350, so they have a little edge to them vs the block erupters.

Hi, I read on the 1st page, you mentioned about Indonesia.. Where the origin of the shipping actually? How much is the price + shipping if the buyer from Indonesia?

BPMC is based in Indonesia we will be shipping to the group buy leader from Indonesia. They would then ship to you. If you want to by direct from us in Indonesia and save on shipping here is the link.
http://bigpicturemining.com/klondike-miner

So it doesn't look good at this point.  Over three units makes more sense to buy direct.  I'm gonna let this go until Friday, but if I don't see any more support I'm gonna go ahead and shut it down.  If there's any interest in saving some dough on one or two, let me know.  Maybe we can get a few people together and put in an order of 10.  For something like that I would just ask for tips; no charge on top.

Bitcoin price for these on our site is now BTC0.47 per unit with current MtGox rate at 110.

Sorry guys; closing down. 

Thanks for the votes of confidence though, and thanks to Bicknellski for offering up a great product!  Can't wait to see it in action.