Bitcoin Forum

What are the justifications for raising more capital? ;)

How are you predicting future stock prices?  What will your funding be used for?

How much are you looking to raise? IPO share price?

Good questions! Thank you.

We'd issue a total 30,000,000 shares, release 10% to the public in two waves

(Wave 1): 2,000,000 shares valued at ~0.000155 BTC (matches the IPO mark on chart) 

(Wave 2): 1,000,000 shares valued at ~0.00025 BTC

This would raise at least 500 btc in total, which we think is necessary for the 10 btc limit.

It's also a relatively modest valuation compared to other successful bitcoin IPO's, especially for an already profitable venture with no debts.

Thoughts welcome!

We fill this would add enough liquidity to the market to be fair to shareholders & fairly value the company. Our goal is to be providing well over 20% dividend to Wave 1 investors by the middle of NFL season, as can be seen by our forecasts graphs. These projections take into account our steady current growth, but we will also be riding the wave of NFL/NCAAF and the release of our upcoming features  :)

so 500btc for 10% *twiddles thumbs*. So today you guys are giving yourselves over 500k valuation. Very aggressive. with 30btc in sales last month 3200ish. Not sure what the total history of your sales figures are, but let's multiply that by 12. about 40k a year. Competing in a non bitcoin mining market against some key players like bitbet and you guys are giving yourselves a 500k valuation today?

Realistic valuation today 50k (that's being very generous)

I think this is probably very low with the growth potential. I think the valuation is fairly decent, my suggestion was mostly that they offer a larger share of the company in the IPO. That way risk taking investors would have a bigger incentive to invest and they could raise more funds for expansion.

Thanks Swede. Larger % could be good for liquidity as well.

What is your legal exposure in your home jurisdiction?  Will you cater to US customers?  What is your exposure in the US?  I represent Bitcoin businesses, but I have little experience doing casino/gambling/betting legal work.  I'd love to know more about how you plan to address (have already addressed?) the regulatory environment you're facing, because I don't know a thing about it.

What is your legal exposure in your home jurisdiction?  Will you cater to US customers?  What is your exposure in the US?  I represent Bitcoin businesses, but I have little experience doing casino/gambling/betting legal work.  I'd love to know more about how you plan to address (have already addressed?) the regulatory environment you're facing, because I don't know a thing about it.

I can't find the ticket nor on btct, nor on BF  ???

How does your house code generate randomness? No where on your site explains it. I really hope you are not using pseudorandom functions... however, I am not familiar with HTML5 to know if random is based off of some real physical phenomena.

I think visitors would feel more confident in playing in your casino games if you disclose that you are seeds are based off of random number generators that measure some sort of a physical phenomena.

For those other forum members who are not familiar with what I'm talking about: http://www.random.org/randomness/

Thanks in advance!

Really good, and logical questions here. For starters, we are accepting US players. We recognize and understand gambling online with Bitcoin in the US is currently a gray area; however, there were laws recently passed which allow residents in select states to actually gamble online, Nevada and Delaware are two that come to my mind, but I believe there are more and I'd presume more states will be passing similar laws in due time.

To protect our exposure, we operate completely offshore. Further, we have retained legal counsel with a firm in the US that has been completely supportive of everything we have in flight. However, if we are served a cease and desist notice, we technically have 2 options: (1) Fight it or (2) Comply and shut off traffic to states which have not passed the law mentioned above. I'd rather not speculate on what option we'd pursue, as our decision would be based heavily on the circumstances at that time.

It seems like you guys really just want a 500BTC line of credit but lack collateral, so the IPO option allows you to raise capital without collateral—and there's the added bonus of walking away from your obligation if it all goes pear-shaped on a 10BTC 7-team parlay. I suggest you offer a larger stake (> 30%) for the amount of risk you're asking investors to take on.

Your feedback is taken, but it's very unfair to speculate that we would walk away from any of our commitments. I understand there is a trust issue because you don't know us, and there have been plenty of scammers in the past, but we've been a fantastic addition to the Bitcoin community and are offering our players a great gaming experience. That said, you max bets (and max "to win" amount on bets / parlays) will fluctuate based on our bankroll. Never will we exposure ourselves beyond a 1% risk of ruin. So the scenario where a customer hits a 7-team parlay will never break the house.

I only used the parlay as a colorful default scenario, I certainly didnt mean to imply your operation was amateurish. My point was that in a secured loan, your collateral would be liquidated in the event of a default, which could be caused by many unforeseen events unrelated to your trustworthiness—malicious theft by hackers, seizure of domain/equipment by authorities, etc. In your IPO, you are offering fractional profit-sharing as a reward to those providing the substantive bankroll—i.e. you are overvaluing you current assets. I think a variable-yield bond offering is a more appropriate fundraising tool in this instance than an overvalued security.

@BitHub, I'm not sure how what % of company is sold or "floated" affects the valuation? This is simply what % the company wants/needs to sell for capital. Maybe you can clarify  :)

To me a 5000 BTC evaluation for a company that hasn't made even 50 BTC yet is insanely over valued. Right now bitbook.biz and NitrogenSports offer many better lines and many other games then you guys. Currently you offer only a couple leagues/sports. Bitbook and Nitrogen both offer at least 10 different leagues for soccer, MMA, AFL, WNBA, you name it. IMO you are valuing your company at what it possibly may be worth, whereas you should be valuing at whats its really worth today. $3000 made in profit in two months does not mean $500,000+ value when the market is saturated with a couple big books and the margins are low. To me the valuation should be 500-750 BTC where you sell 20-40% to get the capital you need for your company. Just my two cents.

I have finally had time to review your numbers that you have given, which in honestly is not a lot for someone who actually reviews ratios.

Over a ~2 month period you are up over 60 BTC, which is a nice profit but looking at the charts that you provided No IPO/ IPO you are seeing an additional ~50 BTC profit with the IPO on 10/1/13 which is in cause to raising you max bets.

You have a valuation of 100% of your business at 5,000 BTC which is right now approximately $500,000 in USD, as for that it would be hard for me to justify, as most valuations are based on 1 year revenues or approximately 2-5 year profit margins based on what type of business and the approximate longevity.  Right now all bitcoin businesses should be based on the very low end of the # of year’s profit margins.  

Casinobitco Perceived Val, imo

I would estimate you will make about 200 BTC for 4 months during NFL season and approximately 240 BTC during the other 8 months.  This is based on your booking and Black Jack games, futher growth is needed, imo for more profit.  Therefore making about 440BTC a year.  Now this depends on your ability to gain market versus other books, and also gain more US betting during NFL/CFB, which honestly I am yet to determine if the regular BTC user with deep pockets is really American football fans.  Your major US sports gamblers are not here yet in the BTC community, imo.

So using that I base you guys a perceived valuation at 2 years x 440 = 880BTC
But in all honestly just using the 60 BTC over the last 2 months as basis the 1 year total profit would be 360BTC = a valuation with 2 year basis of =720BTC right this very minute.  

With 30,000,000 shares (also a number I don’t like as the future stock grows the market loves low number of shares as splits generate future profit gains) it would make the shares in my mind at 880BTC = 0.00003BTC per share.

So you are looking at 2 options of investments IPO versus additional Venture Capitalists,

1. Venture Capitalists, if they know what they are doing and not just bitcoin miners who got rich back in day without investing true USD, then their offer will be approximately 400 BTC for ~45% of the company, or worse, with you running operations daily

If you get the amount you are asking with the percentage of the company you are willing to give do it, DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT TAKE $200!

2. IPO - If you go this route and at the share price you have listed, which I would suggest if you dont get a VC dumbass, you need to dump all 10%, not in 2 waves but initially , as second wave won’t ever get to that share price imo in next 2-5 years, after first release.  Because imo an IPO is an opportunity on BTCT.co as a pump and dump.  

Meaning you are going to get more invested initially for less % of company. This will also create market buzz for your business like Labcoin did last week.

Possible issue with this is people can lose out money on this venture with very little possible gains unlike VC where there are 1-3 people who gain a lot on large amounts.  If enough people lose out are these people who lost people who use your service.

Casinobitco.in currently has an unpaid loan with CoinLenders that they did not disclose. This loan is not overdue, however it should have been noted.