Bitcoin Forum

MTGOX.com has not paid us since 26th of June, have others also experience the same with them?

Dear Bitcoin community, we instructed MTGOX.com on 26th of June 2013 to pay out USD 1,954.
We have still not been paid, we contacted them several times, but we have just received the same excuse that their bank is delaying the payout, please read the correspondence below. (Text in the ticket starts at the bottom).
We are very concerned, as we now have more funds with MTGOX, they are supposed to be the leaders in trading Bitcoins, but I guess we have to leave them if they don’t pay out. Can anyone suggest a good alternative to MTGOX?



not acceptable for us, we expect payment by the 30th July, if not received we will terminate our account and post this case in several forums.
Please don’t hesitate to contact us for any questions you may have.
 
With best regards
 
Urs Moeckli
 
Swiss Enterprises Ltd.
20 Rue Adrien Lachenal
1207 Geneva
Switzerland
info@theswisspharmacy.com
Tel. +41-22-5883001 Fax +41-22-5802789
www.theswisspharmacy.com
 
________________________________________
From: Nancy <notifications-info@mtgox.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 06:17:03 +0000
To: Urs Moeckli<info@theswisspharmacy.com>
ReplyTo: Support Desk <info@mtgox.com>
Subject: [Support Desk] Re: Withdrawal - USD - 26.6.2013 (ticket #103171)

## Please do not write below this line ##
Ticket #103171: Withdrawal - USD - 26.6.2013


Your request (#103171) has been updated.
To review the status of the request and add additional comments, follow the link below:
http://support.mtgox.com/tickets/103171
You can also add a comment by replying to this email.
________________________________________

Nancy, Jul 25 15:17 (JST):
Hello,
Thank you for contacting us regarding your withdrawal request.
Due to a change in our banking system we are currently experiencing a back-log of withdrawals that we need to process.
Our team is working hard to increase transaction speeds, but there is approximately a two-week back-log we need to overcome.
It will take a few weeks to get back to normal, and we thank you for your patience during this time.
Again, we apologize for the delay and we will contact you once your withdrawal has been processed.

Best regards,
Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com
[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]
________________________________________

Michael Support, Jul 25 11:50 (JST):
Request #106554 "We did not receive payment from ..." was closed and merged into this request. Last comment in request #106554:
Dear Nancy,
Again 9 days passed, and we did not receive your payment.
As we are now waiting for 1 month, this is not acceptable any longer, we herewith inform you that we will wait till 30th of July for your payment.
If we do not receive your payment by then, we will take the following steps:
1) We will no longer use your service and will work with one of your competitors.
2) We will post this case in the Bitcoin forums, where we are active members and reach out to many of your customers.

With best regards
Urs Moeckli
Managing Director
Swiss Enterprises Ltd.
20 Rue Adrien Lachenal
1207 Geneva
Switzerland
billing@theswisspharmacy.com
Tel. +41-22-5883001 Fax +1-888-3388908
www.theswisspharmacy.com



From: Nancy [mailto:notifications-info@mtgox.com]
Sent: Samstag, 13. Juli 2013 08:57
To: Urs Moeckli
Subject: [Support Desk] Re: Withdrawal - USD - 26.6.2013 (ticket #103171)
## Please do not write below this line ##
Ticket #103171: Withdrawal - USD - 26.6.2013

Your request (#103171) has been updated.
To review the status of the request and add additional comments, follow the link below:
http://support.mtgox.com/tickets/103171
You can also add a comment by replying to this email.
________________________________________
Nancy, Jul 13 15:57 (JST):
Hello,
Thank you for the email. As USD withdrawals were suspended for a week and resumed as per press release
https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130704.html
The increased volumes of withdrawals has made it difficult for our bank to process the transactions smoothly and within a timely manner, which has created unnecessary delays for our global customers.
Management is working to improvise and also bring in more withdrawal options. We would appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.
I'll track the withdrawal and will sure update you once processed.
Best regards,
Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com
[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]
________________________________________
Urs Moeckli, Jul 13 14:51 (JST):
Dear Support,
we notreceived the below payment from you.
(1 page, 34 results) 1
2013/06/26 00:26:16 Withdraw Status: confirmed $1,954.00000 $0.82363
Withdraw to account BARCLAYS BANK (SEYCHELLES) LTD
------------------
Submitted from: https://mtgox.com/trade/account-history?currency=USD
________________________________________

Urs Moeckli, Jul 22 19:38 (JST):
Dear Nancy,
Again 9 days passed, and we did not receive your payment.
As we are now waiting for 1 month, this is not acceptable any longer, we herewith inform you that we will wait till 30th of July for your payment.
If we do not receive your payment by then, we will take the following steps:
1) We will no longer use your service and will work with one of your competitors.
2) We will post this case in the Bitcoin forums, where we are active members and reach out to many of your customers.
With best regards
Urs Moeckli
Managing Director
Swiss Enterprises Ltd.
20 Rue Adrien Lachenal
1207 Geneva
Switzerland
billing@theswisspharmacy.com
Tel. +41-22-5883001 Fax +1-888-3388908
www.theswisspharmacy.com (http://www.theswisspharmacy.com/)
________________________________________

Nancy, Jul 13 15:57 (JST):
Hello,
Thank you for the email. As USD withdrawals were suspended for a week and resumed as per press release
https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130704.html
The increased volumes of withdrawals has made it difficult for our bank to process the transactions smoothly and within a timely manner, which has created unnecessary delays for our global customers.
Management is working to improvise and also bring in more withdrawal options. We would appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

I'll track the withdrawal and will sure update you once processed.
Best regards,
Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com
[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]
________________________________________

Urs Moeckli, Jul 13 14:51 (JST):
Dear Support,
we notreceived the below payment from you.
(1 page, 34 results) 1
2013/06/26 00:26:16 Withdraw Status: confirmed $1,954.00000 $0.82363
Withdraw to account BARCLAYS BANK (SEYCHELLES) LTD
------------------
Submitted from: https://mtgox.com/trade/account-history?currency=USD


This email is a service from Support Desk.

Message-Id:F9MMMH81_51f0c2dfa95db_6d8434c08891478b_sprut

This is a huge problem.  When you run a business, you expect that your partners will act with integrity.  Here is what they have to say:

“It currently takes up to 10 days to process a deposit because our bank, upon receiving deposits, notifies us of the deposit but holds them for 7-10 days before transferring them to our account. This has always been the case, and we were still crediting customer accounts before receiving the funds ourselves, but some cases in which the bank subsequently rejected the deposits meant that we incurred significant losses.

“The risk is now too high for us to credit accounts prematurely. We are in the process of forming relationships with new partners, banks, and taking other steps — hopefully we will not only be back where we were before we encountered these issues, but much further ahead.”




This is simply a lie.  If what they are saying is true, then in 20 days you would be paid.  Obviously Swiss Enterprises has not been paid within 20 days and there are others on this forum in a similar situation.  This needs to stop.  All signs point to liquidity problems at Mtgox and this destroys confidence in bitcoin as a whole.

The prudent option is to buy coins on MtGox, transfer them to Bitstamp, sell and retrieve your funds.
This loses close to 10%, but is better than nothing if the fiat is needed.

If you can't afford to lose as much as 10%, withdraw the coins from gox and try selling on localbitcoins.com

Actually the above is about deposits not withdrawals - most probably it is technically not a lie - but it is sure misleading.

I received the same copy-and-paste replies from their support, their support is closed to useless, I gave up eventually and pray my money will reach me eventually.

Search the forum. BitStamp SEPA transfers work fine. Switzerland is SEPA member.

BitStamp exchange is priced in USD but they only receive/send EUR via SEPA. So all their transfers are converted to EUR although they use ECB reference rates so they take no extra cut out of the conversion* - but your bank might take an additional conversion fee for transfers in a foreign currency. So you might want to open a bank account in EUR which I'm sure is possible in Switzerland.

* anyone correct me if I'm wrong here.

Well, I have to laugh....not because I don't take your side seriously, but my DEPOSIT took 23 days.....

Good luck with your future business with GOX, I consider another service in the future.....

Since Gox has legal troubles in the US, probably any USD transfer from/to gox may be delayed/cancelled by US intermediary bank.
Every international USD transfer goes through US bank which has power to block it.
Any bank dealing with USD must comply with US "international" regulations. Any USD transfer is under control by intermediary US banks.

Thank you all, for your feedback.

Today we informed MTGOX about this post please see the reply below.

“Eiden, Aug 06 20:45 (JST):
Hello,
Thank you for waiting and sorry for delay. We are processing the withdrawals manually. We are still working with our bank to have the issues sorted and we expect to have this sorted out soon.
Processing manually it involves lot of man power and time and we are doing our best to do this and your withdrawal should be processed soon.
You still have the option to cancel your withdrawal and send the funds to your account. Please let us know if you have an idea to this.
Best regards,
Mt.Gox Team
https://www.mtgox.com
[Attention: Please protect your account using OTP to ensure that your funds are safe and secure. Failing to do so makes your information vulnerable to hackers.
Please visit https://mtgox.com/security]“

As far as I understand, this means we can cancel the withdrawal and get back to the same status as we had on 26st of June, they must be kidding, unbelievable!

I've been waiting since June 16th (I had another wire from June 12th that I cancelled last week.

Do you know if it's possible to withdraw to a bank account under different name or it has to be in the name of the MTGox account holder?

Also do you use IBAN or SWIFT/BIC as these are 2 separate options in their new Withdrawal Center.

Same name.

Use Bitstamp. MtGox is a joke. You think you've had it bad? I've been waiting since 13th June!

This is completely unacceptable.

Still another day of nothing.

Pretty much everyone.

Yep.  This is what has been the problem since withdraw freezes were first announced.  There isn't a problem with their bank in Japan, there is a problem with US banks refusing to work with Gox, which cannot be solved "in 2 weeks."

i've been waiting since. 14th of june.  the last WD i got was june 03, so between June third and 13th is when the issue arose.  i just hope i can get my USD refunded and turned back into coins. royally goxxed.

basically i paid a fee to have my coins converted to USD. now i'll have to pay another fee to get my USD converted back to BTC, and when i get the coins onto another exchange i'll pay another fee to get the btc back to USD.  thanks a lot gox. there should be a way to cancel the original sales, because if i knew they were going to defraud my $$ it would have saved me a lot of time and money.

There is no excuse to continue using Mtgox unless you need to cash out over 100k

https://i.imgur.com/cnolrNC.png

they probably got some kind of warning,
applied for permits and now we are all waiting for that permit(s),

they don't want to make any sending action because that would make them look like money transmitters

Agreed.


For any of you who have fiat currently being held with MtGox, I ask you to take a few minutes out of your day right now to run through this quick thought experiment with me. Honestly, we'll do it together right now:

1. Mt Gox has been hammered with DHS account seizure, Coinlab lawsuit as well as a host of other external and internal banking, hardware and software related issues. All of this is public information, the only question that remains is the current impact from the banking issues which triggered this Spring.


2. Mt Gox has had plans to implement alternative crypto currencies since April of this year. The amount of work required to implement another order book, make some UI and database changes is relatively simple and quick. Since we know Mt Gox has gone one step further and introduced Midas, we can add another 2-4 weeks for integration / load / compatibility testing. We are now at August 8th, 2013 with no timetable for any alternative currencies being added.

There is no logical explanation why Mt Gox would require 4.5 months and counting to add and fully support another currency pair, even if that pairing has fiat on one side. The amount of money to be earned in trading fees based on volume would be enough to create a financial incentive to add Litecoin and Namecoin ages ago. If there was another legitimate reason for 4.5 months delay on this, they would have made a 10-minute Flash video in hopes of stemming the bleeding market share. 


3. Now we have 3+ month long delays in USD withdrawals. As anger and speculation grows while market share continues to bleed, Mt Gox says little to nothing on the issue. At the start of this month. Mt Gox releases a statement containing several key updates. The biggest update is of course the ever-growing withdrawal issue. Because Mt Gox has made this point so clearly for me, I will let them finish off my point on their deposit and withdrawal situation:


Deposits and Withdrawal Update

Finally, the issues with deposits and withdrawals from Mt. Gox are being relieved, but still not at the rate we want. For example it currently takes up to 10 days to process a deposit because our bank, upon receiving deposits, notifies us of the deposit but holds them for 7~10 days before transferring them to our account. This has always been the case, and we were still crediting customer accounts before receiving the funds ourselves, but some cases in which the bank subsequently rejected the deposits meant that we incurred significant losses. The risk is now too high for us to credit accounts prematurely. We are in the process of forming relationships with new partners, banks, and taking other steps -- hopefully we will not only be back where we were before we encountered these issues , but much further ahead.


After month over month of increasing market share loss, Mt Gox sat down in the board room and decided what they would say about USD withdrawals, and how they would say it to you. This is what they came up with.

Now, to wrap up this thought experiment. After taking all of these factual points into your consideration, do you believe Mt Gox is solvent? Are these the actions of a company that has made a concious decision to stay in business and grow their customer base?  Be honest with yourself, it may save you some money and ฿.

Those are the actions of a company that's broke and is desperately trying to delay the inevitable. As the SEC says on their Ponzi scheme page (http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm): "Be suspicious if you don’t receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment." That's a huge red flag.

I don't know if they are solvent or not, but the idea that they are insolvent in USD but solvent in BTC makes no sense.

My current theory is that they have their main account frozen and this is why they changed the bank account details for deposits recently.  What is deposited into the new account they use for paying someone from the withdrawals queue - but the queue is only growing anyway.

The question is why their account got frozen - I don't know - maybe it was just some bureaucratic failure (like that one when Karpeles declared MtGox noto be a a money transmitter in the USA) - or maybe it is some lawsuit (maybe even it is the effect of MtGox not releasing the Bitcoinica funds to the debtors).

That's not what Mt. Gox is saying.

Mt. Gox has a track record of blaming others for their own screwups. If they could blame some bank for their current problems, they probably would.

It's much more likely that they're simply broke.

How can you become broke when you were handling 80% of all Bitcoin transaction?
They were making millions in profit.

I don't think they are broke, I think they are being blacklisted by the fiat banking system because of US regulatory pressure due to the FinCen investigation (which was probably from a tip-off because of the failed merger and $75m lawsuit).

Some banks are still begrudgingly doing business with them on a low-volume basis treating MtGox with the caution normally reserved for Iranian mullahs, Nigerian finance houses and Colombian plantation owners.

was able to get my USD converted back to BTC and off of gox.  goodbye gox.

This is the most logical explanation I have seen yet.  Indeed, anyone who leaves $ or bitcoin in gox right now is accepting enormous risk.

This. My back-of-the-envelope calculation says they will lose money if their trade volume stays under $1M per day, however. They've had to scale up their business because of the crazy volumes at the height of the April bubble, and they managed to catch the attention of the banking circles. Now they're trapped between no bank wanting to do business with them and fairly high operating costs. I'd hazard a guess that their op costs (including wages) are several hundred thousand dollars monthly.

Even if they lose money it's going to take some time to burn through the insane amounts they made during the bubble. They probably have tens of millions in reserve.

All right, probably not tens of millions.

Still, $4.5M + over 50kBTC is a lot of money. Don't forget the BTC-denominated fees. And they might have a lots of BTC left over from earlier too.

Let's hope they still have the Bitcoinica funds in reserve.

Mt Gox undoubtedly has reserves of both USD and ฿. This starts to get real ugly when a critical amount of customers attempt to take ฿ off the exchange and further erode liquidity. This can only go on for so long, the next four weeks will be telling.


 

Most likely the problem is with the US bankers "freezing" their US-dollar funds. Add to this the similar seizure by the US government of their Dwolla funds, and the pending $75 million lawsuit by the US-based CoinLab, and picture is bleak... for the US dollar exchange. There is more to money than the US dollar.

The OP is based in Europe. Why not deal in Euros? Or the Swiss Francs? You can either bend over for Uncle Sam and enjoy the ride without whining, or choose different currencies and again quit whining. The liquidity is what it is. Make it better. Quit whoring yourselves to the bandits.

We have deposits that were sent over 30 Days to MTGOX still not credited to our account, it used to take 48 hours.

So besides the Withdrawal problem it seems theyre having DEPOSIT issue's IE not crediting accounts!

Are these US$ deposits? (or AU$)

I smell a lawsuit, and I want one too.

AU converted and sent as USD to their new bank details they provided after the withdraw mess started.

Ah, so even their new banks are spooked by the regulatory investigation. All this bleating about how the volume of wires overwhelmed their old bank is just complete eyewash. As MtGox provides an AUD orderbook and must have AUD accounts, perhaps the deposit would have arrived if it remained entirely in AUD, and did not touch a US-domiciled correspondent bank. Of course they would never help their customers by advising them as to which currencies can be sent without delays.

I don't think that keeping it in AUD would make any change - I was fooled to sell my bitcoins into PLNs because MtGox was saying that the problem is only about USD - but guess what - after 1.5months of waiting I had to cancel the withdrawal and withdraw it via bitcoins.

I did a small wire test to the US and it has been 2.5 weeks and I have not seen it yet

I did a 6 figure withdraw june 17th to usa and still nothing.

I've got a dozen pending transfers, all reporting on gox's history as "confirmed."

So who knows a lawyer in japan? I'm starting to get tired of this.

+1
I will donate 1btc to help any legal action against MtGox.

Has anyone received a withdrawal in the last two weeks? This is getting ridiculous.

Another avenue might be to contact the equivalent of the secretary of state in Tokyo and the bank regulators in Japan.

and where is magictux? has things become so bad he cannot even talk about his own business anymore?

why does it seem every bitcoin business goes down in flames?

As I've pointed out before, there are lots of things you can do.

File a complaint with the US SEC. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260075.0) Mt. Gox has a US address for service of process, and they're a foreign broker/dealer with US customers.  The SEC has jurisdiction. When you complain to the SEC, use terms like "unregistered broker/dealer", "refusing to return customer funds", and "default". Give names, dates, and amounts.

Japan has the Financial Services Agency. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.msg2896556#msg2896556)

Useful info about Mt. Gox:

FinCen Money Service Business Registration Number: 31000029348132
Legal Name: MtGox Inc
615 S Dupont Hwy
Dover, DELAWARE 19901
(Source: FinCen database)

MT. GOX KK, a Japanese corporation, and
TIBANNE KK, a Japanese corporation
Round-Cross Shibuya 5F, 2-11-6,
Shibuya, Shibuya-ku,
Tokyo, Japan 150-0002

Tel:   81-3-4520-6200
Fax:   81-3-4520-6209
(Source: Tokyo Chamber of Commerce)

Actual location: Tōkyō-to, Shibuya-ku, Shibuya, ２丁目１１−６, 5th floor.
Google maps link (http://goo.gl/maps/aqOzI) - About 300 meters east of Shibuya Station.

Keep in mind that it's Mt. Gox's problem. No matter what they say. If they have banking problems, that's their problem, not yours, and it's not an acceptable excuse for non-payment to any court or regulatory agency.

Don't act like sheep. Raise hell until you get paid.

I was contemplating doing this - but the 10% haircut looks still cheaper than going through a legal proceeding - so I took that route.  I have to add that MtGox support is kind of prodding users to do that - they eliminate the most angry guys this way (but it is also possible that they are actually making money on arbitraging - so they want the difference to be big).

They also make a further 1% in commision (1/2 each for buyer and seller) on the last trade when people give up and turn their fiat into btc. It's like getting slammed on the backside by the door on the way out of the complaints dept after being stonewalled.

We have closed our account with MTGOX as they never paid, shifted our Bitcoins to Bitstamp.com hope they pay, but I have heard from others that they do pay....

This was a wise move.  Bitstamp paid me- they seem legitimate.

I have order thats confirmed but no money,  can cancel it if so how ?

Raise a ticket to support and they can cancel it and return the funds to you gox account.

 I started another thread on this, but wanted to share on this one.  I experienced the same issue getting the withdraw cash from them, so I decided just to take the hit and buy back my bitcoins.  I was able to lose almost nothing because there was a slight drop in price.  I then immediately withdrew my bitcoins from them (just about 5 in total) and it's been 3 days and they aren't sending them.  Others on the other thread say they have waited over a month.  Support doesn't answer anything, and more people are starting to think they may be scamming.  I don't like to throw around accusations, but if there is a legitimate technical reason for this, they should acknowledge it and tell people.  After 3 days, I have heard nothing and have opened 3 separate support tickets.

  Just letting others know what my experience is...

  UPDATE 2/7...  the BTC has been returned to my account, but it won't allow any to withdraw ...

Bitcoin withdrawals are temporarily disabled until the issue is solved, please see announcement...

Dear MtGox Customers,

In our efforts to resolve the issue being encountered by various bitcoin withdrawals, it was determined that the increase in the flow of withdrawal requests has hindered our efforts on a technical level. To understand the issue thoroughly, the system needs to be in a static state.

In order for our team to resolve the withdrawal issue it is necessary for a temporarily pause on all withdrawal requests to obtain a clear technical view of the current processes.

We apologize for the sudden short notice. All bitcoin withdrawal requests will be on pause, and the withdrawals in the system will be returned to your MtGox wallet and can be reinitiated once the issue is resolved. The trading platform will perform as usual for the needs of our customers. 



Our team will resolve this problem as soon as possible and will provide an update on Monday, February 10, 2014 (JST).



We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused, and thank you for your kind support and considerations. 


Sincerely,

The MtGox Team