Bitcoin Forum

I need a advice on how to power 100 Miners with a second energy source.

small info: i live in a place where you are limited to 12 Hours electricity by the Goverment, the other 12 hours i have to get a) a Private generator Company to host me (very expensive) b) get a standalone Generator and run it by myself (200kwh generator fuel consumption is about 60 liter per Hour at 0,58$ about 35$ a Hour or 350$+ a day)

I looked for Solar Panel Systems and so on but the Installation + ROI is to much.

Do you have any other solution?

Thanks in advance for replys

Any chance you can build your own hydro power storage plant?
You have 12 hours to fill your lake (and use 400 kW for miners and pumps), and 12 hours to drain your lake (and get back 200 kW). If my math is correct, you'll need enough space to store about 2000 m³ water in 2 pools with 500 m height difference.

What's the size of your grid connection? If it can handle twice the amount of power (actually a bit more) than you'd need when running on the grid for 24 h, you could store the energy as LoyceV suggested. Storage solutions are always expensive, though. Hydro storage only works in certain topographies. You might try a sodium sulphur battery (once of the cheapest chemical battery solutions for your power to capacity ratio).

If that doesn't work, your own generation is the way to go. Are you sure solar panels are too expensive?
Is there running water near your place? Could a small running water plant work?
Is your region a good place for geothermal power?

Sorry to say it's also quite possible that there is no economic solution for your problem.

thanks for the reply,

well first a hydro plant is not possible due to no river or floating water nearby. a generator consumes aprox 8-10k USD of Diesel at this Power. solar system i heard of something from 1000$ per kw for hardware and installation i dont have at the moment the place to host something like this. I got 12 hours free electricity at my place but need to cover the other 12 hours by myself. i think there is no other way then a big Diesel generator providing the electricity needed.

1000$/kW is actually pretty cheap for a ~20 kW installation. But it's possible, depending on labour costs in your region. You'd need about 150 m² for the panels. Solar is a long-term investment, amortisation time depending on your latitude and climate ~5-15 years typical.

Do you get the 12 hours of free electricity only if you cover the remaining 12 hours? Even so, you could rent a dgen, earn some bitcoins, then invest in solar and ditch the gen.

Also this: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/solarcoin/ (1 coin = 1 MWh; I'm not really serious but the price has gone up quite a bit lately).

The solution suggested above doesn’t require a river or flowing water.  The suggestion was dig/build two ponds at different elevations. Then during your twelve hours of power run a pump to pump the water to the higher elevation. Then during the 12 hours of no power, the water flowing down hill will power the generator.

(An above ground pool flowing into a dug pond or in ground pool for example.)

I think you should compare your income for 12hrs per day vs. the ROI on the other options. Sounds like it's cheaper to simply run your rigs 1/2 day.

May I ask your general location?

Sounds like time to find a new location to mine?

I have to wonder how unreliable your Internet connection is going to be if "the government" only provides power 12 hours a day.

They seem to decide "when", and not "how much". It also seems like a very bad policy if they try to limit electricy consumption by creating daily rolling blackouts, while a user can use 200 kW for free!
What they should do, is charge a normal price for electricity, and make it available all day.

I'm curious: where is this place?

500m elevation?????
The Hoover is below 400 and Corcovado (the mountain in Rio with the Jesus statue) is barely 700 and have you seen how it looks?
Besides, the cost for the  pumps, the turbines,the pools, the whole thing will make gas look cheap.


Guessing... Venezuela???
LE.
I was wrong.




 

As i said we are located in Lebanon, we are at the moment in contact with a Private owned Power Plant to make a deal for 0,05 Cent per Kwh for 24/24 supply.

Also we are talking with "Whatsminer" about their M3 Miner with 11-12,5 Th/s.

I am considering to sell from the Bulk order maybe 50% to get my Investment back and farm with the other 50% of the Miners.

What do you guys think?

Go for antminer s9 or Avalon 8 if you can, you're using a ton more power on the Whatsminer for similar hashing.  It's not even close, almost 2:1.

yeah but the price difference is also 2:1...the ROI on the Whatsminer is 75-80 Days the ROI on S9 - A8 is over 125 Days.

I learned from doing investments the faster you get your ROI the more you "win".

also Bitmain and Canaan in my opinion are like going into a Ferrari Dealership. They don't want to make business they want to stick to their "LONG" Customers..

I mailed both for Bulk purchases Bitmain didn't even consider to answer and Canaan just told me they are sorry we don't have at the moment Miners for sale.

I didn't even purchases 1 Whatsminer and for me they are the Winner in terms of Customer Service. They are talking DAY AND NIGHT to me.

If i get the Electricity deal i am considering to go to China and talk face to face. They told me they don't have a problem to show me their Product and Discuss everything. 

I went many times to China because we are dealing also with Mobile phone accessories and Construction Materials in Lebanon and this is typical for me to talk directly to them.

One last question: I am not a Electrical Engineer but is my math right. If i get 100 Miners and each need for example  4-5 amps and 2kw do i need a 400-500amp Main Breaker?

M3 is closer to 10A at 220v. And then it's advisable to not go over 80% of your rated capacity. That's for individual circuits, but I imagine it's the same for a whole panel.

 The PANEL is often rated a bit higher, but the main breaker and the intake wiring tend to not be.

 BREAKERS also have to be heat derated, not just load derated - there were times my last summer in Iowa that I had "15 A" breakers tripping with less than 10 amps of load on them due to the breaker panel being in a warm part of the home.

can i split my total amps on multiple main lines?

for example my Electricity Supplier can wire me multiple main lines to my warehouse.

i could get 3-4 main lines. does this benefit me or not?

That all depends on your local electrical Codes.
Most countries should not permit that because it is a major safety hazard to firefighters -- if the building has a fire they need to be able to kill all power to the building. Only safe way to do that and make sure all power in the building is dead is to have only 1 large power feed that the firefighters can disable. The power company might run multiple wires but all should enter the building at just the 1 location.

I understand, i just called the power company, they will hook my whole Breaker and Electricity up for free, because i have the "biggest" supply need on their Industrial lines and they don't want to piss me off because something does not work as should. so 1 problem less. Once i get the Miners and the Farm ready i will be posting everything here to keep you guys updated.

Thank you all for your advices

I think I would just use UPS batteries at the 12VDC level. Just batteries and a 13.8V charger. Have it switch to power the miners when the power shuts off. But you need much more than 200kWH. You  probably meant 200 kW. You'll need 10-20% more charger power to get the batteries ready for the 12 hour discharge, depending on their age.

100 S9 miners at 1350W = 135kW X 12 hours = 1620kWH of battery. If they are cycled daily I'm guessing they'll last about 2-3 years so you'll have to budget replacements. Since you do need to optimize this site for power, I'd go with the S9.

Most miners are NOT rated for operation on the "nominal" 13.8 volts common Lead-Acid batteries provide - much less the 14-15 volts that is common when the battery is CHARGING.

Yes, send your miners to a datacenter or mining facility and pay them to host your miners 24/7.

That's why I worded it the way I did. I said to switch the battery to supply the miners when utility power is disconnected. Therefore the 13.8V charger will never be connected to the miner while it is powered. The battery would be on discharge which would be within specs.

13.8V is the correct charging voltage for lead-acid batteries, which are the best bang for the buck choice. There are many other batteries but they'll cost you more. Buying anything for mining that exceed 3 year lifespan is probably not the best idea as everything could be obsolete by then.

I didn't submit a comprehensive design with bill of materials and cost justification model because nobody gave me a PO to engineer this project.

I also didn't see an engineering design for the grossly impracticable water storage or cost justification PV model ideas. I'd love to see them because the ideas only gave me a mild chuckle. A submitted design would be worth sharing for us all to LOL.

Thing is, miners run on 12VDC. A UPS for miners is really simple as it is only a charger, battery and a relay. Crazy cheap, demonstrated millions of times as effective, easy to design with 100% certainty of performance effectiveness. My suggestion to the OP would actually work, and be cheaper than any other option that is within his original ask.