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Bitcoin => Project Development => Topic started by: SyphorSoftware on August 17, 2013, 08:34:55 AM



Title: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 17, 2013, 08:34:55 AM
Olympus Discussion
Beta Release Slated for Later.

This Project has been worked on behind the scenes for about two weeks by one of ours teams.  It is our entree for the 5500+ BTC bounty that theymos started in 2011 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50617.0), assuming he still intends to honor the bounty.  Olympus Discussion is designed to tailor what you see, to your specific needs, so your not surfing though piles up sub-categories and mindless jabber to read what you want to read.

Your feedback and suggestions are more than welcome, which is why we are posting this now, before we are completely ready for release.

Developer Features
  • Threaded Processing
  • Node.JS Platform (http://nodejs.org/)
  • Precompiled LESS Support (http://lesscss.org/)
  • On-Demand LESS Compliation (http://lesscss.org/)
  • Embedded JS Support (http://embeddedjs.com/)
  • Carte Blanche Framework
    • Node Cluster Management
    • Specialized Web Server
    • Object-based Database Structure
    • In-house HTML/LESS Framework

Board Features [Paused - In Development - Completed - Not Planned For Beta]
  • Multiple Authentication Systems
    • OpenID Authentication (http://openid.net/)
    • Registration System
      • Email Not Required
    • Two-Factor Authentication Support
      • E-Mail
      • TOTP and HOTP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-based_One-time_Password_Algorithm)
  • User Accounts
    • Custom Account Types
    • Permissions System
    • Web of Trust System
    • Messaging System
    • Weighted Stats
    • Avatars
    • Signatures
    • User Assigned Attributes
      • Bitcoin Address
      • Email Address
      • Website
      • Company
      • User Created Attributes
  • Tag Based Content System
    • Advanced Tag Search
    • Default Channel Organization
    • Post Ranking System
    • Subscription System
    • Ignore System
    • BBCode-like Markup with Icon Fonts (http://fortawesome.github.io/Font-Awesome/icons/)
  • Multiple Interfaces
    • JS-based Interface
      • Compatible with all modern browsers
      • Reduces needed bandwith
      • Provides a smooth user experience
      • Automatically update content
      • User Color Scheme Support
      • Phone and Tablet Support
    • Non-JS Interface
      • Compatible IE7+ and newer browsers.
      • Zero Client-Side JS
      • User Color Scheme Support
      • Phone and Tablet Support
    • Crawler Interface
      • Provided to self-identified crawlers like Google, Bing, etc.
      • Significantly lowers bandwidth requirements for crawlers
  • Advanced Analytics
    • User Analytics
      • Posts Over Time
      • Messages Over Time
      • Visits Over Time
    • Moderation Analytics
      • Post Removals Over Time
      • Post Edits Over Time
      • Post Tag Edits Over Time
    • Financial Analytics
      • Checks Donation Address Transactions
      • Collective Ad Revenue Data
  • Integrated Ad Campaigns
    • Tag and User Attribute Targeting
    • Time Based Ads
    • Custom Analytics
  • User-based Control Panels
    • Common Control Panel
      • Access to Profile Information
      • Access to Ad Campaign Data
      • Customize Color Schemes
    • Moderator Control Panel
      • All Common Controls
      • Access to Own Moderation Analytics
      • Access to Board User Analytics
    • Admin Control Panel
      • All Common and Moderator Controls
      • Access to All Moderation Analytics
      • Access to All Ad Campaign Analytics
      • Access to Board Financial Analytics

Screenshots [Outdated]
https://i.imgur.com/XoapFyrl.png (http://imgur.com/XoapFyr)


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 17, 2013, 10:37:19 PM
  • Site Wallets (eWallets for tipping)

Theymos has stated he doesn't want the forum to become an e-wallet, so I am guessing this would have to be removed.

Which is why is was under "possible".  We haven't even implemented them, suspecting as much.  It's too much of a liability to the forum owner.

Also why no google 2FA email 2FA is bad, cause I am guessing many people have the same name even the same password as their email accounts. So yeah better to look into google 2FA as it be the best way!

Google 2FA is attached to your Google account.  We do offer OpenID login, which can use your google account, and thus activate your Google 2FA, assuming it's attached to your account.  Same goes for your Google E-mail, assuming you use Gmail.

Email 2FA, is better than no 2FA.  We would like to offer SMS 2FA, however that would require monthly fees to a API SMS service, which is obviously up to the forums owners.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 18, 2013, 12:50:09 AM
Google 2FA has nothing to do with google accounts. They are separate things completely. If you have access to my google account you don't have access to my google 2FA cause that is on my phone. It is safer than giving out my phone number to a forum.

You are confusing Google 2FA, which is 2FA support implemented by Google to protect your Google accounts (https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/180744 (https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/180744)), and Google Authenticator, which can be used for Google 2FA.

The difference is, Google Authenticator isn't a process or service, it is a tool, that uses the TOTP and HOTP standards set by the Initiative for Open Authentication, and thus can be used by anyone following the same standards.

TOTP and HOTP support was not planned, as of the writing of this post, but if this is what you mean by "Google 2FA", then I'll be sure to let the team know of the request.

how you going to do that with no e-wallet unless you are going to host it.

Please read "Tipping" in the opening post.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 18, 2013, 07:50:52 AM
Yes that is what I am talking about, please pass it along.

I don't consider that tipping it is more of a profile field, but I guess so.

The opening post has been updated to reflect your request, and to better describe the teams' progress as of the writing on this post.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: GCInc. on August 18, 2013, 09:43:43 AM
Very interesting. After release and possible adaptation by the Bitcoin community will this platform be up for sale or maybe become open source?


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 18, 2013, 10:07:43 AM
Very interesting. After release and possible adaptation by the Bitcoin community will this platform be up for sale or maybe become open source?

According to the origional post by theymos:

It would be fine for you to sell your software after you make it for this forum.

However, that was almost 2 years ago.  Assuming we collect the bounty, we will talk with the forums administration about it.  If they agree to it, we would like to release the software as open source, for the community.

In the result that theymos does not award us the bounty, for whatever reason, we will put the software up for auction, at which point the winning bidder will have all rights to the finished product.  In the event of such an auction, should the community decide to come together to win the auction, we will release the software as open source.

We hope this answers your question.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: cedivad on August 18, 2013, 01:16:57 PM
So you are creating a forum software out of nowhere?
Why would someone do it?


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: TheButterZone on August 18, 2013, 11:35:28 PM
So you are creating a forum software out of nowhere?
Why would someone do it?

It is our entree for the 5500+ BTC bounty that theymos started in 2011 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50617.0), assuming he still intends to honor the bounty.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 19, 2013, 01:11:19 AM
Olympus Discussion had to be built from scratch. Pre-made forum software could not be modified for the UI we have designed. Olympus Discussion is a collaborative concept of our development team to create forum software for the leading edge of modern web development. it strays from standard forum design by bringing in new concepts like a Tag Based Content System, Multiple Interfaces, Advanced Analytics, and other features that would be difficult to implement to pre-designed forum software and still meet our standards. As a company, Syphor Software is striving to create unique and unprecedented software that will not only impress but be functional and seamless in its design.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: cedivad on August 19, 2013, 06:19:16 AM
Listen, i hope that you win the bounty because SMF sucks, but building a forum from scratch is not the way to do it. I've personally done it, all the major forum software (IPB, vB, XF, etc) can be modified to match the requirements. All of them. Also, it's something it would be easy to do.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: GCInc. on August 19, 2013, 06:38:27 AM
Listen, i hope that you win the bounty because SMF sucks, but building a forum from scratch is not the way to do it. I've personally done it, all the major forum software (IPB, vB, XF, etc) can be modified to match the requirements. All of them. Also, it's something it would be easy to do.
Couldn't resist, I find this comment after OP's reply hilarious :o

About time we get modern forum software made from the roots up.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: cedivad on August 19, 2013, 08:37:47 AM
Do you want a first world tested and bug free software or some mess made out of thin air?
Reinventing the whell, that is what is hilarious.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: TheButterZone on August 19, 2013, 09:28:28 PM
Prejudice should not stop innovation.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Software] Olympus Discussion
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 20, 2013, 03:56:06 AM
We have updated the opening post with a few screenshots.  There will be more to come as we reach the beta release date.

If there is something you disagree with, or would like to see some changes, please let us know.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: cedivad on August 20, 2013, 09:11:37 AM
It's the most original forum "moockup" i've ever seen. It's something of the level i wanted to do for a website of mine for years now.
So, i'm positively surprised.

But again, you shouldn't start fresh out of nothing.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on August 20, 2013, 09:32:58 AM
Not exactly a fan of the mock up UI. https://inputs.io/beacon Individual posts take up too much space, and black on grey is not a good color combination for long reads. The <h2> or whatever makes the subject take up disproportionally more space - even through in 99.5% of the posts the subject of replies convey no additional information.

The topic list UI is not well designed. The user bar should have a constant width that makes it easier to skim through the subjects. There's too much clutter to the right that makes it hard to see replies / views at a glance, and there is no last reply message. The timestamp is also unfriendly - you should use relative time (eg 3 minutes ago, not dates unless it is very old).

Most people also generally read from left to right. IMO the sidebar would be better positioned on the left (and you should really get another default color palette).

Quote
The default theme should be minimalistic like the current theme. Nothing that looks "web 2.0": no speech bubbles, no significant space between posts, no significant hover effects, and few rounded corners.

The default theme must work well with all functionality and a reasonable page layout on text browsers without JavaScript. It should also work perfectly on browsers with unusually small browser dimensions. It should be at least somewhat usable (though maybe not pretty) on ancient and broken browsers like IE6.

Same color scheme as we have now: light with some blue.

Keep in mind that the audience here is much more technical, and are more power users. In addition, a much more significant amount of users runs with JS disabled or NoScript for security reasons (against code injection, using tor, whatever), your user interface should be virtually identical (like right now) for users without JS enabled. This reminds me of the disastrous Google Reader redesign - too much empty space, too much user friendlyless at the sacrifice of user functionality - or digitalpoint (that's a way better example).

Many users (especially power users) do not have an avatar here. How will that be presented?


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on August 20, 2013, 09:53:17 AM
I also recommend to not go with major design overhauls to make it look web 2.0. I use Bootstrap a lot, but it's simply not what will work with the Bitcoin community. That means, don't start your project off with Bootstrap's large empty spacing, font size, large buttons, white/grey/black palette.

Making something more web 2.0 has disastrous results for a technical internet community. DigitalPoint migrated to the latest version of vBulletin which is like the direction your UI is going. Take a look at how they are doing:

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=340&h=150&o=flt&c=1&y=t&b=ffffff&n=666666&r=2y&f=999999&u=digitalpoint.com

You can quite easily see that after upgrading their forum to be more web 2.0 / shiny, their userbase stopped visiting as much. They had to move to another forum software that was more traditional, and better for "power users".

---

It should also be noted that Google will penalize you if you serve a different version to GoogleBot. See this video: http://searchengineland.com/library/search-engine-optimization/seo-cloaking-doorway-pages

Your crawler interface will get your forum software significantly penalized - Google cares if you serve it a substantially different HTML, it can't detect if what you are doing is "reducing bandwidth" or whatever - if a diff is significant, you get slapped with a hefty penalty.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 20, 2013, 09:59:34 AM
It's the most original forum "moockup" i've ever seen. It's something of the level i wanted to do for a website of mine for years now.
So, i'm positively surprised.

But again, you shouldn't start fresh out of nothing.

We're sure we will impress you again when the beta release rolls out, when you will have time to play around with the features, make posts, and report bugs.

The current slated release date for the beta is this Friday, Aug. 23.

Not exactly a fan of the mock up UI. https://inputs.io/beacon Individual posts take up too much space, and black on grey is not a good color combination for long reads. The <h2> or whatever makes the subject take up disproportionally more space - even through in 99.5% of the posts the subject of replies convey no additional information.

The topic list UI is not well designed. The user bar should have a constant width that makes it easier to skim through the subjects. There's too much clutter to the right that makes it hard to see replies / views at a glance, and there is no last reply message. The timestamp is also unfriendly - you should use relative time (eg 3 minutes ago, not dates unless it is very old).

Most people also generally read from left to right. IMO the sidebar would be better positioned on the left (and you should really get another color palette).

Quote
The default theme should be minimalistic like the current theme. Nothing that looks "web 2.0": no speech bubbles, no significant space between posts, no significant hover effects, and few rounded corners.

The default theme must work well with all functionality and a reasonable page layout on text browsers without JavaScript. It should also work perfectly on browsers with unusually small browser dimensions. It should be at least somewhat usable (though maybe not pretty) on ancient and broken browsers like IE6.

Same color scheme as we have now: light with some blue.

I also recommend to not go with major design overhauls to make it look web 2.0. I use Bootstrap a lot, but it's simply not what will work with the Bitcoin community. That means, don't start your project off with Bootstrap's large empty spacing, font size, large buttons, white/grey/black palette.

Making something more web 2.0 has disastrous results for a technical internet community. DigitalPoint migrated to the latest version of vBulletin which is like the direction your UI is going. Take a look at how they are doing:

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=340&h=150&o=flt&c=1&y=t&b=ffffff&n=666666&r=2y&f=999999&u=digitalpoint.com

You can quite easily see that after upgrading their forum to be more web 2.0 / shiny, their userbase stopped visiting as much. They had to move to another forum software that was more traditional, and better for "power users".


Thank you for your input TradeFortess.  You make quite a few great points, and they will be addressed by the team before the beta release on Friday.

We would still love to hear from others, and we intend to have updated screenshots ready on Aug. 21 that depict more of the software, including the user control panels, possible ad locations, and updated content.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: /dev/null on August 20, 2013, 11:16:01 AM
jeez, dont mind but it looks ugly.

Even vanilla forum looks 10 times better than this.

http://cdn.vanillaforums.com/www.vanillaforums.org/addons/screens/ao2OWEW3PL1NYB.png


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: /dev/null on August 20, 2013, 11:22:30 AM
look at esotalk http://esotalk.org/forum/


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 20, 2013, 11:37:00 AM
jeez, dont mind but it looks ugly.

Even vanilla forum looks 10 times better than this.

http://cdn.vanillaforums.com/www.vanillaforums.org/addons/screens/ao2OWEW3PL1NYB.png (http://cdn.vanillaforums.com/www.vanillaforums.org/addons/screens/ao2OWEW3PL1NYB.png)

look at esotalk http://esotalk.org/forum/

Thank you for your feedback and suggestion /dev/null

After yours and TradeFortess' feedback and suggestions, the UI designer and one of the programmers from the team have decided to take a few days to flesh out Carte Blanche's HTML/LESS framework, ditch bootstrap completely, and begin working on new mockups.

We appreciate both of your help in this, and we encourage others to voice their opinions on how they would like to see the new UI done.  Any and all suggestions made will be taken into account, and we will try to work with the community as much as possible.

Thanks again!


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: cedivad on August 20, 2013, 11:50:56 AM
Re: TradeFortress:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gawker_Media#2011_redesign_and_traffic_loss

Quote
On February 7, 2011, the Gawker sites underwent a major design change and were quickly met with significant backlash from users.[14] A beta run a week earlier on Io9 was also met with the same backlash.[15] Numerous bugs have been noted by users[16][17] which range from making the site unreadable, to unnavigable, to unusable, as well as a sizable increase of in-page pop-up ads covering articles, the removal of Gawker's "Fusion" Option, which allowed users to merge news feeds from multiple Gawker sites, and the increase in difficulty in reading older news posts. Numerous users have called for the old design to be reinstated or made accessible, at least until the new design is operational, having likened the redesign to the failure of New Coke.[14] Pageviews since the redesign have gone down significantly, with many users either leaving the site or viewing international versions of the site, which haven't switched to the new layout.[18][19] Gawker's sites saw an 80% decrease in overall traffic immediately after the change,[20] from 1.75 million average views a day to less than 250,000,[21] with a consistent decrease in overall traffic since, as of March 17, 2011,[18] which has caused Gawker to have a "massive" loss in ad revenue.[21] Founder Nick Denton has insisted that everyone should "Stay cool: we've been through worse backlashes", and it has been revealed that he has created a bet on the new design with New York-based digital media consultant Rex Sorgatz after Sorgatz wrote on his blog that the design would "fall flat", which would see the two check Quantcast on October 1, 2011, and that for every million pageviews/month over or under a total of 510 million starting from February 1, they would have to pay out $10, and that if the design is restored to the original format, Denton forfeits the bets and must pay out $1000. Some have already cried foul of the bet, as the site has tried to introduce a blog view that is a blend of the two formats, but this blend has been poorly received as well.[21] As of June 27, 2011, the total was approximately 220 million pageviews/month for the U.S. domain (as foreign domains have refused to switch to the new design and thus are not counted), and despite a traffic boost in June from E3 2011, the monthly page views were still 10–20 million below those from before the site redesign. By early October 2011, visits had only partially rebounded, and were still generating an average of 200,000 less hits than before the redesign.[22] Denton ended up losing the wager, as it was determined that the total pageviews was 500 million, 10 million short of the agreed number.[23]
As of October 24, 2011, a button in the shape of an eye was placed at the top right hand corner of the webpage, giving the reader the option to choose from three view options: Traditional (entire page scrolls), Two Panes (side bar scrolls independently), or Blog View (listing of stories by date).

Btw, i don't think the digitalpoints falldown to be completely and only design related.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: SyphorSoftware on August 24, 2013, 02:25:47 AM
Due to all the feedback we have received, we are sad to say that the beta release will be pushed back to Monday August 26 in order to give our team members more time to redesign our UI to reflect the feedback we received from our previous mockup screenshots. We hope you partake in our beta and help us make software that is optimized to what the community would like to use.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: TheButterZone on August 24, 2013, 04:41:27 AM
Can it import the existing SMF forum db, so everyone keeps their posts and port-able settings? Thanks.


Title: Re: [Pre-Release][Forum Software] Olympus Discussion | Bounty Entree
Post by: riX on September 01, 2013, 08:59:42 AM
Just a note about the "5500 BTC bounty".
According to how I've always understood the original thread, those 5500 BTC is how much the forum/Theymos owns, i.e. the maximum available for new investements. That does not mean that the final price will be 5500, especially not now when the value is a lot higher.