Bitcoin Forum

I do not understand the price difference between the two.

Why trade with MtGox when BitStamp is much cheaper?

Different exchanges = different prices.
This is good, and ensures the exchanges are not linked together.

People cant get dollars out of Mt.Gox at the moment - which means more people want to buy BTC on there (so they can withdraw) and less people want to sell (because the can not withdraw the dollars they receive).

Basically, a dollar on Mt.Gox is not actually worth as much as a dollar on other exchanges - so it takes more Gox dollars to buy a BTC.

Here is what people are doing *

1. Buy BTC on Bitstamp
2. See higher price on MtGox
3. Sell BTC on MtGox
4. Realize you can't get cash out of MtGox
5. Panic sell at higher price
6. LOL at others making the same mistake

*Present company excepted, of course.

Exactly. Because people can't get their USD, EUR, AUD, etc., out of MtGox, they are dumping those and buying BTC. While it might seem like selling your BTC on MtGox is easy money, you have to consider that it will be stuck there for months.

It is such a big difference.

Today, MtGox US$118.00/BitStamp US$102.00

Surprised MtGox is still in business.  Why do people go there?

Yes, the bait in that trap is quite tempting!

I have no idea why people still go there.

If you can afford to wait 8 weeks, it is not a bad deal.

It is not like you cannot get USD out of MtGox, you have to wait. The waiting part is what prevents people from going there.

No.  You really can't get it out, if you read in the forums the queue is getting longer and longer and Gox can only process 10 per day.  If that.  You really think a US bank is going to process a wire from Mt.Gox after their funds were seized by DHS? 

Gox doesn't need a US bank, though. There are countless high-margin offshore payment processors who can cut foreign checks and push through wires via intermediary banks. US banks won't touch Gox, but plenty of payment processors will. Gox thus far is clearly unwilling to shave its profits (and it may have to shave them quite considerably) to do what is necessary to meet withdrawal volume.

The question is -- how much market share will Gox bleed before it does anything about it? If they are simply holding out for a US-facing bank that will continue the old status quo, good luck to them. That ain't happening.

No matter what, Gox needs to bleed out a lot of market share before they can be a sustainable business.

@zeroblock

I have had funds flow through with a 2 week delay, its not a big amount, but they are catching up.

Obviously such opaque things are difficult to speculate on. But this smells a lot like the post-Black Friday situation in online poker. In which case, delays become the norm and there is no return to normal. Most likely, IMO, Gox will never return to its previous status quo.

Just for you information, you can withdraw money from gox, just did, it takes some time but you can.
It took a month for me.

Cheers

It feels exactly like the Black Friday situation in online poker.

What currency? And do you find that an acceptable about of time? Because if you do, you are an idiot to trust in a service that takes a month to send you your money.

thanks for clearing this up!
I was wondering about the high mt gox prices as well and didn't know what caused them.

probably this news https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277817.new;boardseen#new (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277817.new;boardseen#new)

round that to 3mil...and i'm not talking millibits

I've spent years variously hoping that Krapeles was a crook and watching for evidence of such.  Early on when I was actually buying it would have served me well if Mt. Gox had pulled a mybitcoin.  More recently I've proposed that the reason Mt. Gox was largely unmolested by the powers that be while much of the competition was shut down was (potentially) because they were actively cooperating in a honey-pot operation.  The notable harassment vis-a-vis Mutum Sigmum (or whatever-the-hell it's called) and the other banking hassled did a huge amount to bolster my confidence in Mt. Gox.

To answer your question, I 'go there' because I manage my cash-flow needs such that a month or two (or even infinity) of waiting for my fiat is not going to kill me.  I actually only now started to draw down my BTC stash, and only because I depleted my fiat reserves with a largish purchase.  I hedged my bets; half is (hopefully) coming via an international wire from Mt. Gox, and the other half is coming in through bitcoin-brokers.  The latter is just about done and it's been less than a week.  Not only that, but I paid no fees or commission, and as best I can tell everything is legal.  Both Mt. Gox and Bitcoin Brokers could have their operations locked up, or they could vanish with my BTC.  It's a chance that one takes in this business so I always look for ways to hedge and have options.  But I do feel that if Mark was prone to do a 'Tom Williams', he would have done it years ago.

So to that's why when the price goes up on Mt Gox, it goes down on Bitstamp so often?

Of course they are linked somewhat.

We know that smaller digits (<$1000) can be withdrawn. Were you at least 4, 5 digits? How long did it take?

This puts it pretty clearly, I think.

Now it takes very long to withdraw cash out of MtGox (weeks, month) but you still can. But I dont recommend these steps as it is very risky waiting if your cash out of MtGox will be even done

I almost made a new topic, but then realized there are probably thousands of these.

The gap is closing, but ~10% is still significant.  With all the problems and distaste people have for Gox, especially with now needing to ID verify just to withdraw BTC ( when did this happen?) I think the gap will close very soon, with bitstamp trading at the higher price shortly after. 

My opinion this is because of the difficulty in withdrawing USD and generally CASH from MtGox. Leading to continious and increased flow of cash to exchange USD-BTC since it's the only way to withdraw money from there, BitStamp withdrawals are still going (for verified accounts) and therefore the flow of USD To BTC is just the normal.

So basically, a $ is worth less on MtGox due to uncertainty and difficulty in withdrawing it.  Thus, traders demand more $ on MtGox in exchange for a bitcoin. 

The cost of the uncertainty and difficulty can be measured by the difference between the MtGox price and the Bitstamp price, with an adjustment for fees.

Sound right?

Yes, that does sound right actually.  I suppose the "real" price of BTC would be bitstamps price then.  I think most are edging that way also, quoting the Bitstamp price instead of Gox. 

Little off topic, but bitstamp required ID verification for BTC withdrawal too, correct?

Do you have any experience in withdrawing EUR instead?

Yes they do,withdrawing/depositing cash AND bitcoins require complete verification with an ID and a proof of address.

No personal experience but considering some posts on this forum that claim they "Finally" received EUR payments without mentioning the length of delay,also since the MTGOX problem is generally "fiat money" after some of there accounts were frozen I doubt it would be much better than USD withdrawals.

Im more of a gox guy myself. Ive never really used anywhere else.
So Gox is just taking longer to withdraw money. Whats necessarily the issue with that where people will demand more USD per BTC?

I do. I haven't raised the limit above €1000, so I made five withdrawals (SEPA) of €1000 each. The first one took 30 days before it was in my bank account. The second one still hasn't come through even though it has been ~35 days now.

Since the bitcoin price was pretty stable for the last few months Mt Gox was a good place to get more money for each coin providing you could plan in advance. Now that the price is going up again I have registered on bitstamp, I think the bitstamp-price 30 days from now will be higher than the gox-price today.