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Title: Will kWh/hash/sec ever go low enough for mass decentralized mining? Post by: minarchist on August 21, 2013, 01:59:02 AM The way that I see it, the amount of energy it takes to perform a hash per second on a general purpose device (phone, pad, netbook, etc.) is more important than the hash rate of the latest miners. If the first number becomes very low, then perhaps billions of users could make Bitcoin essentially unbreakable and make a modest amount on the side (when billions of people are using Bitcoin, even a few satoshi a week would be nothing to spit at). I would much rather see mass decentralization than a scenario wherein Bitcoin is kept afloat by a few hundred (or fewer?) mining centers.
Title: Re: Will kWh/hash/sec ever go low enough for mass decentralized mining? Post by: Dalkore on August 21, 2013, 02:45:26 AM The way that I see it, the amount of energy it takes to perform a hash per second on a general purpose device (phone, pad, netbook, etc.) is more important than the hash rate of the latest miners. If the first number becomes very low, then perhaps billions of users could make Bitcoin essentially unbreakable and make a modest amount on the side (when billions of people are using Bitcoin, even a few satoshi a week would be nothing to spit at). I would much rather see mass decentralization than a scenario wherein Bitcoin is kept afloat by a few hundred (or fewer?) mining centers. Centralization will continue until on the Bitcoins are mined. Better question is what will happen once that occurs. Title: Re: Will kWh/hash/sec ever go low enough for mass decentralized mining? Post by: crazyates on August 21, 2013, 02:52:31 AM I read your post, and I immediately thought of two things:
A) For mass adoption, I would say that USD/MHs would have to improve. I know some people who would want to get into BTC, but don't have thousands or tens of thousands of USD to invest in hardware. Even a Jalapeno is barely in their budget. And the uncertainty that goes along with the current growth of the network, they can't stand not knowing when or even if they will get their money back. B) The only way I could see power efficiency becoming important is if manufacturers started including Bitcoin hardware inside their equipment without informing their users. Could you imagine if every Dell or HP desktop tower had an ASIC built into the motherboard that mined whenever the computer was on? It wouldn't be much, but when Dell or HP get literally thousands of ASICs mining for them, it can add up. Lets say the chips were capable of a few GH/s, but used less than 1W. No user would every notice 1W increase in usage. An ASIC could be connected to any internet-ready device: switches, modems, routers, computers, cell phones, PlayStations or Xboxes, etc. The new PS4 and XB1 both have AMD APUs with a 8-core CPU and a beefy GPU. What if it was built into the firmware that they would mine LTC to a secret pool when you weren't playing a game? K I'll take off my tin-foil-hat for now. Just some very tired ramblings. :P Title: Re: Will kWh/hash/sec ever go low enough for mass decentralized mining? Post by: minarchist on August 21, 2013, 02:58:35 AM B) The only way I could see power efficiency becoming important is if manufacturers started including Bitcoin hardware inside their equipment without informing their users. Could you imagine if every Dell or HP desktop tower had an ASIC built into the motherboard that mined whenever the computer was on? It wouldn't be much, but when Dell or HP get literally thousands of ASICs mining for them, it can add up. Lets say the chips were capable of a few GH/s, but used less than 1W. No user would every notice 1W increase in usage. An ASIC could be connected to any internet-ready device: switches, modems, routers, computers, cell phones, PlayStations or Xboxes, etc. The new PS4 and XB1 both have AMD APUs with a 8-core CPU and a beefy GPU. What if it was built into the firmware that they would mine LTC to a secret pool when you weren't playing a game? K I'll take off my tin-foil-hat for now. Just some very tired ramblings. :P The IP addresses of the mining nodes are recorded (that, and the hash rate increase would be hard to miss). So how could this be done surreptitiously? Title: Re: Will kWh/hash/sec ever go low enough for mass decentralized mining? Post by: byronbb on August 23, 2013, 11:59:34 PM B) The only way I could see power efficiency becoming important is if manufacturers started including Bitcoin hardware inside their equipment without informing their users. Could you imagine if every Dell or HP desktop tower had an ASIC built into the motherboard that mined whenever the computer was on? It wouldn't be much, but when Dell or HP get literally thousands of ASICs mining for them, it can add up. Lets say the chips were capable of a few GH/s, but used less than 1W. No user would every notice 1W increase in usage. An ASIC could be connected to any internet-ready device: switches, modems, routers, computers, cell phones, PlayStations or Xboxes, etc. The new PS4 and XB1 both have AMD APUs with a 8-core CPU and a beefy GPU. What if it was built into the firmware that they would mine LTC to a secret pool when you weren't playing a game? K I'll take off my tin-foil-hat for now. Just some very tired ramblings. :P The IP addresses of the mining nodes are recorded (that, and the hash rate increase would be hard to miss). So how could this be done surreptitiously? It wouldn't need to be. You would get refunds based on your machine's earnings. Pretty good idea. Here' your new XBOX, if you leave it plugged in all the time we'll mail you a cheque every month. Title: Re: Will kWh/hash/sec ever go low enough for mass decentralized mining? Post by: DeathAndTaxes on August 24, 2013, 12:02:35 AM B) The only way I could see power efficiency becoming important is if manufacturers started including Bitcoin hardware inside their equipment without informing their users. Could you imagine if every Dell or HP desktop tower had an ASIC built into the motherboard that mined whenever the computer was on? It wouldn't be much, but when Dell or HP get literally thousands of ASICs mining for them, it can add up. Lets say the chips were capable of a few GH/s, but used less than 1W. No user would every notice 1W increase in usage. An ASIC could be connected to any internet-ready device: switches, modems, routers, computers, cell phones, PlayStations or Xboxes, etc. The new PS4 and XB1 both have AMD APUs with a 8-core CPU and a beefy GPU. What if it was built into the firmware that they would mine LTC to a secret pool when you weren't playing a game? K I'll take off my tin-foil-hat for now. Just some very tired ramblings. :P The IP addresses of the mining nodes are recorded (that, and the hash rate increase would be hard to miss). So how could this be done surreptitiously? It wouldn't need to be. You would get refunds based on your machine's earnings. Pretty good idea. Here' your new XBOX, if you leave it plugged in all the time we'll mail you a cheque every month. Or even better free xbox arcade games, points, special in game items, and other "cool" bonuses. Call it the xbox lottery. You get a little bit everyday and randomly some people win more. Title: Re: Will kWh/hash/sec ever go low enough for mass decentralized mining? Post by: Seth Otterstad on August 24, 2013, 05:24:30 PM Gavin thinks that as long as the bitcoin project doesn't fail, we will eventually have hot water heaters with bitcoin miners in them.
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