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Title: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 09:23:34 PM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance.
In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: randomguy7 on July 11, 2011, 09:25:36 PM Sorry for offtopic but: Atlas? Is this you?
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: JA37 on July 11, 2011, 09:25:50 PM Die? None of the above.
Healthcare? All of the above. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: NghtRppr on July 11, 2011, 09:27:34 PM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die:
Deserve to die? None. I think you mean, which of the above justifies coercing others to help you and again the answer is "none". Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: TiagoTiago on July 11, 2011, 09:28:40 PM I'm against death sentence even for the worst offenses, torture on the other hand...
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: JoelKatz on July 11, 2011, 09:29:54 PM In none of those cases do you deserve to die. Nobody deserves to have bad luck. However, no society can afford to save everyone. Many people deserve all kinds of things that it is not possible to provide them. That a person deserves something does not create an obligation on others to see that they get it.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 09:30:26 PM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die:
Deserve to die? None. I think you mean, which of the above justifies coercing others to help you and again the answer is "none". I've edited the question to clarify this point. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 09:33:07 PM Sorry for offtopic but: Atlas? Is this you? No. http://absurdity.biz/ShiftyEyes.gif It's strange you think so because I'm pretty sure Atlas is a capitalist libertarian and I'm a socialist libertarian. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: NghtRppr on July 11, 2011, 09:52:47 PM I'm a socialist Cool. Are you a voluntary socialist or a coercive socialist? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Zncon on July 11, 2011, 10:05:50 PM In cases 1 & 2 you should be helped.
For situations 3, 4, & 5 you should get no help, unless there was a provable reason why your future value to society would exceed the cost of your treatment. Does that opinion make me a bad person? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 11, 2011, 10:10:52 PM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:
In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 10:13:16 PM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:
In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it. So it is fine for me to die even if I don't deserve death? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Zncon on July 11, 2011, 10:16:42 PM Quote Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends. J. R. R. Tolkien, The Lord Of the Rings, Book Four, Chapter One Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 11, 2011, 10:18:25 PM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:
In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it. So it is fine for me to die even if I don't deserve death? Never said it was fine. I said you can't pay for it out of my pocket if I don't want to help you. Find someone (or a group of them) who is willing to help, and let them pay. Don't force complete strangers to upon threat of violence or death. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 10:20:30 PM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:
In no case do you deserve to die, and in no case are you entitled to healthcare, however much you deserve it. So it is fine for me to die even if I don't deserve death? Never said it was fine. I said you can't pay for it out of my pocket if I don't want to help you. Find someone (or a group of them) who is willing to help, and let them pay. Don't force complete strangers to upon threat of violence or death. What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 11, 2011, 10:26:35 PM What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral. Democracy in action. You just got voted off the island. And if you would never threaten violence or death, how do you propose to 'make' people pay? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 10:40:52 PM What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral. And if you would never threaten violence or death, how do you propose to 'make' people pay? Taxes are generally deducted directly from the salary (PAYE) - people rarely have to 'pay'. Otherwise it is the rule of law. If you don't pay taxes you could be fined and if you refuse to pay the fines then you can be arrested. When arrested, you may verbally protest but if you use physical violence against the police they can use minimal force in self defence and to apprehend you. If you run away, the police may catch you and use minimal force to apprehend you. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: SgtSpike on July 11, 2011, 10:46:54 PM I'm with the majority here - you don't deserve to die, but you aren't entitled to free healthcare.
Fact of life: We all die. To put involuntary hardship on some people in order to delay the death of others just seems wrong to me. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: JoelKatz on July 11, 2011, 10:55:40 PM What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral. Life sucks, sometimes good people die. We can't save everyone, it's not possible.Unfortunately, if we save one person who it is expensive to save, we have to let die a few people who it is cheaper to save. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 11, 2011, 10:57:25 PM Taxes are generally deducted directly from the salary (PAYE) - people rarely have to 'pay'. That is like saying "The slaves didn't have to pay a thing. Their housing and food was provided for them" Money you never see is still stolen from you. "Otherwise it is the rule of law. If you don't pay taxes you could be fined and if you refuse to pay the fines then you can be arrested. When arrested, you may verbally protest but if you use physical violence against the police they can use minimal force in self defence and to apprehend you. If you run away, the police may catch you and use minimal force to apprehend you. " If you don't pay, we will make you pay more. If you don't pay more, we will kidnap you. If you resist coming along, we will beat you. if you run, we will chase you down and beat you. How is that any different from threatening violence? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 10:59:38 PM What if nobody is willing to help? Then is it ok for me to die? Also, I would never threaten violence or death because both are immoral. Life sucks, sometimes good people die. We can't save everyone, it's not possible.Unfortunately, if we save one person who it is expensive to save, we have to let die a few people who it is cheaper to save. That is not true. We can save the one and the few, it would just cost more. In my opinion, this is a price worth paying. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: david4dev on July 11, 2011, 11:06:12 PM Taxes are generally deducted directly from the salary (PAYE) - people rarely have to 'pay'. That is like saying "The slaves didn't have to pay a thing. Their housing and food was provided for them" Money you never see is still stolen from you. It is true that the slaves didn't have to pay anything. However, they were not receiving any payment for their work which is wrong. You are still getting money for your work. For employees it is equivalent to earning a lower salary. For employers it is equivalent to paying a higher salary. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 11, 2011, 11:15:35 PM Taxes are generally deducted directly from the salary (PAYE) - people rarely have to 'pay'. That is like saying "The slaves didn't have to pay a thing. Their housing and food was provided for them" Money you never see is still stolen from you. It is true that the slaves didn't have to pay anything. However, they were not receiving any payment for their work which is wrong. You are still getting money for your work. For employees it is equivalent to earning a lower salary. For employers it is equivalent to paying a higher salary. So, 100% slavery is wrong, but 5% is OK? Where do you draw the line? 50%? 75%? Also, What of my other question? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: JoelKatz on July 11, 2011, 11:26:18 PM That is not true. We can save the one and the few, it would just cost more. In my opinion, this is a price worth paying. We can't save everyone, it's simply not possible. The demand is effectively unlimited.Worse, for many people, saving them will kill someone else. Every dollar spent on health care is one dollar that couldn't have been spent on something else, and those other things save lives too. Maybe it's the person who feeds their family at McDonald's because it's cheap, maybe it's the person who can't afford a Volvo and gets into an accident, maybe it's the person who drives because they can't afford airfare and gets hit by a drunk driver -- but taxes kill people. You only see the person you saved, but the people you are killing are there too. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Fakeman on July 12, 2011, 01:23:08 AM It's not really slavery if you're free to leave. Personally I'd rather see my taxes go to healthcare than oversized military and prisons for example.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: TiagoTiago on July 12, 2011, 01:27:44 AM IMO, humanity as a whole should try to find ways to reduce the cost for keeping anyone alive so that eventually all deaths (if any) would be an intentional decision and people would never be sentenced to death due to the costs of keeping them alive, regardless of who they are.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 02:04:42 AM It's not really slavery if you're free to leave. Personally I'd rather see my taxes go to healthcare than oversized military and prisons for example. It's not slavery, if you get to choose who you're enslaved to? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2011, 02:18:05 AM To the people who are saying "We can't save everyone." don't get it. In a society with no slavery, more people would have the means to help and they shall. People inherently value other human beings and will give with no incentive. Otherwise, I doubt we would be propagating governments that supposedly care anyways.
People naturally give a fuck. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 02:22:14 AM It's not really slavery if you're free to leave. Some people just don't understand the difference between secession and emigration. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Fakeman on July 12, 2011, 02:27:45 AM And that relates to the quoted statement how?
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2011, 02:33:13 AM And that relates to the quoted statement how? If you own property, you should be able to leave while still keeping your claims to it.Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 02:44:53 AM And that relates to the quoted statement how? Maybe you should do a little research on 'Secession' Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Fakeman on July 12, 2011, 03:04:18 AM I'm just baffled at the suggestion that disagreeing on what qualifies as "slavery" means I'm confusing the two concepts with each other. A way out is a way out, it might not be on your terms but that doesn't make you a prisoner.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 03:06:20 AM I'm just baffled at the suggestion that disagreeing on what qualifies as "slavery" means I'm confusing the two concepts with each other. A way out is a way out, it might not be on your terms but that doesn't make you a prisoner. So if you can leave but you have to drop your wallet on the ground, does that mean you're not being stolen from? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: billyjoeallen on July 12, 2011, 03:17:50 AM If the majority of people supported socialized medicine for the purpose of helping the needy, then socialized medicine shouldn't be necessary. >50% is more than enough people to provide charity without forcing stingy people to contribute. If you factor in the unintended consequences of forcing people to help out when they don't want to, the net returns for those particular funds taken by force or threat of force are actually negative.
The truth is that the bleeding hearts don't want to help the needy unless everybody contributes their "fair" share with "fair" being determined and defined by the bleeding heart. Being generous with other people's money is not generosity. Forced charity is not charity. Involuntarily taking someone's money is still theft even if it's done by the State and even if it's for a "good" cause and even if it's called "taxation". Civilization is the triumph of persuasion over force. Socialized medicine is a step backwards. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 03:23:16 AM The truth is that the bleeding hearts don't want to help the needy unless everybody contributes their "fair" share with "fair" being determined and defined by the bleeding heart. Being generous with other people's money is not generosity. Forced charity is not charity. Involuntarily taking someone's money is still theft even if it's done by the State and even if it's for a "good" cause and even if it's called "taxation". Exactly. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 03:29:54 AM Or we could just keep fighting the War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism, and let the A.M.A., Pharma, and Med Insurance Banks write our legislation. Just to expand on this idea. I wonder who is more likely to be able to effectively lobby for legislation, the poor and needy or moneyed special interest groups? Troll boy is worried about the rich funding private armies but that would at least be a step up from the rich that can just buy control of the public armies. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Alex Beckenham on July 12, 2011, 03:36:07 AM 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any. Yeah, man works 40 years laying bricks and not once thinks about making a back-up plan. Then loses job and cries "bricklaying is all I've ever known, how will I pay my rent now?". Hey stupido, you had 40 years to make a back-up plan. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: SgtSpike on July 12, 2011, 04:00:41 AM 1) I was a hard working citizen but due to no fault of my own I lost my job and am currently looking for work but unable to find any. Yeah, man works 40 years laying bricks and not once thinks about making a back-up plan. Then loses job and cries "bricklaying is all I've ever known, how will I pay my rent now?". Hey stupido, you had 40 years to make a back-up plan. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: billyjoeallen on July 12, 2011, 04:02:03 AM Troll boy is worried about the rich funding private armies but that would at least be a step up from the rich that can just buy control of the public armies. Is the outcome of these two scenarios any different? There are too many religious zealots in my area... It might turn out like somalia or some other fucked up tribal nation. We need a resurgence of Quakers and Anabaptist in our christian population? I prefer my original position and veil of ignorance, at least until someone comes up with a model I find preferable. I must state I haven't read Nozick yet. The difference is that I am not taxed to pay for the private armies. People who have to fund their own wars are more reluctant to engage in war in the first place. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 04:43:35 AM Are you advocating a night-watchmen state or true private armies. Most modern Libertarian philosophers don't advocate true private armies. It may be bit of a Rorschach or free association thing but you say private armies and I think protection racket. Funny, that's exactly what I think of when I hear "government". Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 04:58:02 AM Is the outcome of these two scenarios any different? I grow weary of arguing against consequentialism. A guy dying of a terminal disease is allowed to die vs. me shooting him in the head. Is the outcome of these two scenarios any different? Wait, before you answer, let's just stipulate that the outcomes are identical. Do you really think that they are therefore morally equivalent? I don't. I think murder is still wrong, even if he was going to die anyways and the outcome is the same. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 05:00:09 AM Are you advocating a night-watchmen state or true private armies. Most modern Libertarian philosophers don't advocate true private armies. It may be bit of a Rorschach or free association thing but you say private armies and I think protection racket. Funny, that's exactly what I think of when I hear "government". So you are an Anarchist and/or anti-statist? I started a thread entitled 'How to run an Anarchy'. What do you think? ;) Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 05:20:11 AM I would argue consequentialist reasoning Is a perfectly valid factor when debating the role of large armed groups such as armies. In this situation I don't see how anyone could say there is a universal maxim. Or in other words how can the use of private armies lead to justice that reliably track the truth despite varying relevant conditions. In a purely private army system what happens to disadvantaged independents? I don't understand what you're saying. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 05:25:20 AM I would argue consequentialist reasoning Is a perfectly valid factor when debating the role of large armed groups such as armies. In this situation I don't see how anyone could say there is a universal maxim. Or in other words how can the use of private armies lead to justice that reliably track the truth despite varying relevant conditions. In a purely private army system what happens to disadvantaged independents? I don't understand what you're saying. and there in lies the problem Spare me the snide remarks. Just clarify your statements because it sounds like special pleading. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 05:40:28 AM I would argue consequentialist reasoning Is a perfectly valid factor when debating the role of large armed groups such as armies. In this situation I don't see how anyone could say there is a universal maxim. Or in other words how can the use of private armies lead to justice that reliably track the truth despite varying relevant conditions. In a purely private army system what happens to disadvantaged independents? I don't understand what you're saying. and there in lies the problem Spare me the snide remarks. Just clarify your statements because it sounds like special pleading. to me, it sounds like hiding ignorance of the subject matter with big words. Either that, or he's one of those wordy stoners, and is actually trying to get a point across. Let me see if I can translate: Paring out the bullshit, it basically boils down to 'What about the poor?' Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 06:21:37 AM Paring out the bullshit, it basically boils down to 'What about the poor?' So ones wealth does not change the weight of ones responsibilities? Ever hear the Latin phrase, 'Non Sequitur'? It means, 'It does not follow'. Your question has no bearing to my translation of your previous question. But I hear what you're saying. No, being rich does not inherently make one responsible for the poor. Remember, unless you stole it, Every dollar you have when you're rich is a dollar someone gave you in exchange for a service. You've already helped people, and been paid for it. (Charity's still a good thing, I just don't like giving at gunpoint.) Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 06:30:16 AM But I hear what you're saying. No, being rich does not inherently make one responsible for the poor. Remember, unless you stole it, Every dollar you have when you're rich is a dollar someone gave you in exchange for a service. You've already helped people, and been paid for it. (Charity's still a good thing, I just don't like giving at gunpoint.) What about genetic wealth? Honestly, did you just get your Silk Road order? Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: The Script on July 12, 2011, 07:04:14 AM Life isn't fair. Nature does not bestow upon us equal and fair characteristics, physical or mental. Some people are born smarter, stronger, better-looking and with larger dicks than others. Humanity will never achieve social equality, it is a chasing after the wind. The best we can do is to minimize coercion in society and teach each other to respect and help each other (the true concept of community), but not to force individuals to help others.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: LastBattle on July 12, 2011, 07:08:24 AM http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/original-position/ Original Position First published Tue Feb 27, 1996; substantive revision Sat Dec 20, 2008 The original position is a central feature of John Rawls's social contract account of justice, “justice as fairness,” set forth in A Theory of Justice (TJ). It is designed to be a fair and impartial point of view that is to be adopted in our reasoning about fundamental principles of justice. In taking up this point of view, we are to imagine ourselves in the position of free and equal persons who jointly agree upon and commit themselves to principles of social and political justice. The main distinguishing feature of the original position is “the veil of ignorance”: to insure impartiality of judgment, the parties are deprived of all knowledge of their personal characteristics and social and historical circumstances. They do know of certain fundamental interests they all have, plus general facts about psychology, economics, biology, and other social and natural sciences. The parties in the original position are presented with a list of the main conceptions of justice drawn from the tradition of social and political philosophy, and are assigned the task of choosing from among these alternatives the conception of justice that best advances their interests in establishing conditions that enable them to effectively pursue their final ends and fundamental interests. Rawls contends that the most rational choice for the parties in the original position are the two principles of justice. The first principle guarantees the equal basic rights and liberties needed to secure the fundamental interests of free and equal citizens and to pursue a wide range of conceptions of the good. The second principle provides fair equality of educational and employment opportunities enabling all to fairly compete for powers and prerogatives of office; and it secures for all a guaranteed minimum of the all-purpose means (including income and wealth) that individuals need to pursue their interests and to maintain their self-respect as free and equal persons. Tear apart the Original Position Now. I see a lot of meaningless collectivist buzzwords that don't require any tearing apart. Beyond that, the idea of a "social contract" is a cheap justification for statist coercion. A contract that I have never seen nor agreed to and is only considered to be justified because it can be enforced is not a legitimate contract. Try harder. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: whenhowwho on July 12, 2011, 08:12:55 AM No a person does not deserve to die but death is not a bad thing. A person should never be entitled to healthcare either. I also have this thing in my head that people live too long and have too many children. I have seen the worlds population double in my lifetime so far. I suspect it will probably double again before i die.
Back to why nationalized healthcare and the continued sense of entitlement is a bad idea. What is the point of living past the time where you can actually enjoy life? Some people and I stress the word some are able to do things and continue to rock on well into their 80's and even 90's in some cases but most cannot. So to exist past usefulness and enjoyment is completely pointless and without merit. Who determines this point ? Each individual. Entitlement is perhaps the most dangerous idea. Why does everyone suddenly seem to feel entitled to healthcare and why should it be provided by some government entity? Most people go to the doctor for every little thing and waste huge amounts of money simply because it costs them little. Those that do not have health insurance do not go to the doctor for every little perceived problem. The argument of entitlement is just another example of people living outside of their means. IF you happen to have a major health problem that is fixable then you can pay for it over time. If you happen to have a terminal illness then you are probably going to die. Even after spending large amounts of money for "treatment" you are probably still going to die. The only difference is someone was able to extract more value from you before you check out. Is this always true? No, but it is mostly true. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: BenRayfield on July 12, 2011, 08:41:07 AM You can save Human lives for around $1000 each, as researched by GiveWell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Givewell therefore I see no reason why anyone should fund health insurance for those who can't afford it since that far exceeds the cost of saving a life, unless such person helps the world more than most others do in which case they would be more valuable.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: supersonic3974 on July 12, 2011, 04:57:47 PM I'm glad I'm not participating in this thread :) ...awww snap
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 05:00:06 PM Actually the average resuscitation from non traumatic ventricular tachycardia can be be achieved in under $1000 dollars. Its always more expensive with the 1000% supply markup though. We medical types get away with insain markups and ridiculous inefficiency. Our hospital only got computerized medical records a couple of years ago. They all run windows XP and are constantly getting infected with viruses. God Bless America. I'm curious, when you say 'we medical types', are you referring to your fellow candy-stripers? Because I'm pretty sure a doctor, nurse, or even medical record clerk knows how to spell 'insane'. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 05:35:40 PM Sorry corrected. Of coarse I must be a candy-striper, you got me. "of course" Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: whenhowwho on July 12, 2011, 06:44:46 PM I often find it hilarious that people spend more time correcting spelling and grammatical errors than focusing on the topic at hand.
I think the markups are quite a bit higher than 1000% . Pharmaceuticals are upwards of 30000% in some cases. zomgherecomethegrammarpolicequickcorrectmebecauseitisuberimportantandwhatnotple asedonotfocusonthetopicasspellingandgrammararewaymoreimportant!!!!! Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: NghtRppr on July 12, 2011, 09:37:00 PM I often find it hilarious that people spend more time correcting spelling and grammatical errors than focusing on the topic at hand. More time? I've spent hours and hours arguing about these topics and twice in on these forums have I ever corrected someone's spelling or grammar. I think you're being a little bit hysterical. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: whenhowwho on July 12, 2011, 10:15:50 PM sorry if i offended your gentle sensibilities I was just making a general statement regarding general forum posting among many different forums I have seen over the years. I meant no disrespect again my apologies
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: myrkul on July 12, 2011, 10:25:04 PM sorry if i offended your gentle sensibilities I was just making a general statement regarding general forum posting among many different forums I have seen over the years. I meant no disrespect again my apologies All generalizations are false. Including this one. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die? Post by: Sovereign on July 13, 2011, 12:20:47 AM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die:
Deserve to die? None. I think you mean, which of the above justifies coercing others to help you and again the answer is "none". This thread started as an appeal to emotion. Then the premise was entirely destroyed by this reply. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: MakaveliTheDon on February 17, 2018, 10:45:10 AM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:
Hi David4dev! You are raising an interesting topic in my opinion. All cancer types and other life threatening diseases fall under "Specialized Medicine" since a normal or "house" doctor can't really help you. And as you mentioned, the Specialized Medicine market is priced out of proportion. Big time. That is why (disclaimer: I am part of the team) TrustedHealth (www.trustedhealth.io) tackles exactly that problem. Access to the best possible treatment, regardless of your geographical location or insurance. Of course, everything based on blockchain. Important to mention is also TrusteDoctor (www.trustedoctor.com) the first partner of TrustedHealth and a working business that already connected 300+ cancer patients with over 85 leading specialist doctors around the world. In any case, those are my 2 cents, if you have any questions or would need any further explanation let me know. My personal opinion is that everyone is entitled to not good but great healthcare. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: CryptotechWorld on February 17, 2018, 10:58:25 AM Death is one of the Life's greatest inventions. It clears path from old to new. Basic healthcare must be an essential human right. I think Canada is a good example here)
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Addywealth on February 17, 2018, 03:54:34 PM Neither do you need to die or need healthcare, all you need is a mindset change that you could rise again. You are not permanently condemn a criminal today could be a celebrity tomorrow if there is a mindset change. And above you need to move closer to God.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: BADecker on February 17, 2018, 06:49:35 PM We are finding out that health care means death, except in some emergency cases. Just look at all the articles at https://naturalnews.com/ that show this. So, if you use the health care you deserve, you will be getting the death you deserve for using it.
8) Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: yoseph on February 17, 2018, 08:06:14 PM No one really deserves to die at all, even if they don't have insurance that doesn't mean that they should die but the manner at which the world is currently, People want to make money rather than helping their fellow human beings who are suffering in life.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: shiki3226 on February 17, 2018, 08:24:14 PM Anyone who is ill, regardless of their financial or social status, deserves medical assistance and be healed from their sicknesses.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: adaiha on March 12, 2018, 08:35:51 AM I am so lucky that my wife and I were able to afford my 2 back surgeries while I was in my 20s. We scrounged to pay for them. But we made it. So many others probably aren't as fortunate.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: squog on March 12, 2018, 08:41:36 AM Imagine I have a fatal, but treatable, illness. The treatment costs more than I could personally afford. Due to my financial situation I can't afford any health insurance. In which, if any, of the following cases do I deserve to die and in which to I deserve healthcare:
It sucks that you're sick and you don't have any funds to even afford healthcare. If your work doesn't pay much, or even have healthcare, then move to another job. If that is not possible add another job so you could earn more money. If that is not possible, find more suitable sources of income such as crypto currency. You could always ask a loan from your friends and just pay them back. Ask a loan from the company you're working with, or straight up borrow from the bank. Then work hard to pay them off. Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: mylifeisorandom on March 12, 2018, 08:42:17 AM Even if we're all going to die, no one still deserves to die instantly and not growing older at least. But #3 really triggered me, and not having to have work experience just because you're lazy? That's a lame excuse for a person. You have to work hard to earn money and get yourself a good healthcare provider. Being lazy doesn't make you an excuse. I don't want to say that person deserves to die by being lazy but it is your own fault by being lazy and being contented with being that way for the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Whoducen on March 13, 2018, 11:50:01 PM I think you deserve to die due to case 4
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: startblouse8 on March 14, 2018, 04:13:59 AM I think you don't deserve to die in any cases
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: blithelymorelT6 on March 17, 2018, 01:00:39 AM You deserve medical treatment in every cases because you are already paid for your sins so should be helped now
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: LindsayWWW on March 18, 2018, 05:09:02 PM You deserve to die only in the case if you are lazy and have no money due to unemployment
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: percentelated4 on March 19, 2018, 01:10:46 AM Don't know about dying but I can say that you deserve to live if you are a criminal and haven't got job for criminal records
Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: uwr on March 19, 2018, 02:28:05 AM every man should have access to free medical care!!! >:(
USA medical care is a shame !!!!! Support UNIFY World Revolution, let us clean up this mess! Title: Re: Do I deserve to die and do I deserve healthcare? Post by: Flying Hellfish on April 18, 2018, 08:47:59 PM Mod's note: This topic has a large number of redundant answers and is being locked so it doesn't become an SMT (spam mega thread).
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