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Title: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: evoorhees on July 11, 2011, 11:48:45 PM Had a thought today while running...
There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: CurbsideProphet on July 12, 2011, 12:28:39 AM I would agree that one of the attractions of Bitcoin is its uniqueness. Whether that attraction can last for even a fraction of the amount of time that gold has kept people enamoured remains to be seen.
I think Bitcoin has enough of the qualities you describe to possibly be a viable currency in the future. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: silverchair on July 13, 2011, 02:48:28 AM Had a thought today while running... There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive as to bitcoin as well, I agree to that. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: jtimon on July 13, 2011, 08:51:51 AM Bitcoin doesn't challenge the regression theorem because it has use beyond the monetary one.
For example, we could add some minimum amount of bitcoins that we obtain mining to each of our mails and spamers couldn't do the same. Anyway, I don't think that money needs another different use to work. It's just a symbol of value. If bitcoin hasn't any other use, it could still be money. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: hugolp on July 13, 2011, 10:28:20 AM Had a thought today while running... There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? In reality Bitcoin was valued originally by entrepreneurs that could see its future value as money. Maybe curiosity was a factor for some too, but if you go and check the early messages on the forum, we really believed in Bitcoin and time is slowly starting to prove us right. So I say that the initial value of Bitcoin is the value that entrepreneurs assigned to it because it was useful to the "vision" they had. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: jtimon on July 13, 2011, 12:08:19 PM In reality Bitcoin was valued originally by entrepreneurs that could see its future value as money. Maybe curiosity was a factor for some too, but if you go and check the early messages on the forum, we really believed in Bitcoin and time is slowly starting to prove us right. So I say that the initial value of Bitcoin is the value that entrepreneurs assigned to it because it was useful to the "vision" they had. That's why I think money doesn't need to have other use different than money (like carrots have) to become money. You just need people who value it. I don't want to convince the intrinsic value believers that bitcoin is an electronic commodity and therefore it can be money, because I don't think moneys need that. Gold could be cheaper and valuable for other uses if it wasn't also a currency. Nevertheless, bitcoins have value beyond the monetary use. Somewhere in the forum someone said this proof of work required for mails to make spam unprofitable inspired bitcoin in some sense. I can't find where I read that. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: hugolp on July 13, 2011, 12:35:03 PM In reality Bitcoin was valued originally by entrepreneurs that could see its future value as money. Maybe curiosity was a factor for some too, but if you go and check the early messages on the forum, we really believed in Bitcoin and time is slowly starting to prove us right. So I say that the initial value of Bitcoin is the value that entrepreneurs assigned to it because it was useful to the "vision" they had. That's why I think money doesn't need to have other use different than money (like carrots have) to become money. You just need people who value it. I don't want to convince the intrinsic value believers that bitcoin is an electronic commodity and therefore it can be money, because I don't think moneys need that. Gold could be cheaper and valuable for other uses if it wasn't also a currency. Nevertheless, bitcoins have value beyond the monetary use. Somewhere in the forum someone said this proof of work required for mails to make spam unprofitable inspired bitcoin in some sense. I can't find where I read that. Correct in general. Just a couple of points: 1. Nothing has intrinsic value. Value is always subjective. What people that talk about intrinsic value want to say is that Bitcoin does not have other use apart from being money. 2. Bitcoin does not have any other use apart from being money right now (at least not in a meaningfull way). The idea that Satoshi had and used to create Bitcoin might have other uses, but not Bitcoin. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Rassah on July 13, 2011, 04:54:19 PM 2. Bitcoin does not have any other use apart from being money right now (at least not in a meaningfull way). The idea that Satoshi had and used to create Bitcoin might have other uses, but not Bitcoin. Bitcoin can be used to heat homes in the winter. There is nothing else out there that makes my PC pump out so much warm air. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: jtimon on July 13, 2011, 05:00:35 PM I know, there's no such thing as intrinsic value outside numismatics.
The proof of work contained in the bitcoins has other uses than medium of exchange, even if it's meaningless. That eliminates the conflict with the regression theorem. You can "attach" them to your mails to give them reputation. Therefore Bitcoin is not a counter-example to the regression theorem. I still don't believe that money needs other uses. Is LETS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LETS) a counter-example for the RT? Probably it depends on our definition of money. There's people who think that not even USDs are money, just precious metals. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: piramida on July 13, 2011, 05:34:31 PM Good that you mentioned numismatics, because it is somewhat similar. No real use besides aesthetic, historic, and bragging rights. Price can fluctuate wildly (if there are more copies of some rare item found, it can devalue several times once the market learns that rarity has dropped significantly), and value is only determined by the numismatics community - if nobody wants your item, for example because you posses a modern counterfeit, it's price is zero. Bitcoin is protected from counterfeits and rarity drops, so it makes a perfect collectible item :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Leon on July 13, 2011, 06:24:11 PM Yeqh pretty much, but we'll have to wait and see if btc will have the same future as gold.
Had a thought today while running... There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: gribble on May 27, 2017, 06:51:05 PM I would agree that one of the attractions of Bitcoin is its uniqueness. Whether that attraction can last for even a fraction of the amount of time that gold has kept people enamoured remains to be seen. Yep, Bitcoin offers key advantages over gold: transportability, high liquidity I think Bitcoin has enough of the qualities you describe to possibly be a viable currency in the future. and absolute proof of ownership. Bitcoin’s high liquidity is especially important for casual traders and conventional investors who can’t added to hold investments in the long run. That is some reasons the people choose bitcoins, i guess. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Yanisumin on May 28, 2017, 06:12:29 AM Had a thought today while running... There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? During ancient times where gold is a form of treasure and a medium of exchange because there are no paper money that time, it also serve as a form of power. When. Reading some stories about the past, especially the pirate area where they are looking for treasures, those who have a lot of treasure hold the most power. Gold also bacame a decoration of kingdom and clothing as well as plates of weapons. Because of being physically gifted that don't rust and shines through the years, gold have became one of the most beloved treasure of humanity. In the 20th century where Bitcoin is introduced, only the one who understand the system is the one who got attracted. Yes we are attracted because of its independency to government and being tax free but it's characteristics to the spectrum waves and complication of codes are still unknown to most bitcoins users. Metal and frequency (digital) are two different things. But the uses it can give (Bitcoin and gold) are the same. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: ladydark on July 27, 2017, 07:26:13 AM Definitely,first investors got attracted by gold's appearance and started to buy it.Later demand for it increased and it lead to its price increase.But there was no such kind of attraction for bitcoins.Tech people were first attracted by bitcoin's functioning in unmatchable blockchain system.Later when its price started to rise,even more people got attracted towards it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: lovesybitz on August 25, 2017, 10:17:52 AM Had a thought today while running... There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? In my assessment on this matter was that bitcoin has its own uniqueness were bitcoin fanatic should be proud of. Also gold has its own uniqueness too. However since bitcoin its not an ancient compare to gold but in terms of volatility it is more aggressive than the it has. And like what everybody said, decentralization is the main reason of mine why I was so attracted unto it. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Duzter on August 25, 2017, 10:22:44 AM Both has got its own value. In the same way the origin too depends on various factors. Bitcoin is completely dependent on technology and the adoption, so more the adoption more will be the growth happening with it. With gold it is purely value backed system which is of commodity value.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: redsun114 on August 28, 2017, 07:26:50 AM Both has got its own value. In the same way the origin too depends on various factors. Bitcoin is completely dependent on technology and the adoption, so more the adoption more will be the growth happening with it. With gold it is purely value backed system which is of commodity value. Yeah, it is quite ludicrous to compare two things that are poles apart. Maybe bitcoins are used by people now as investments and that is why people are curious about figuring out which one is better option since gold has been in investment market for centuries. My vote is in favor of bitcoins for they produce results faster than gold. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: amaral1977 on August 28, 2017, 07:32:20 AM Had a thought today while running... I went out running so i could have a glinpsy at your vision a well. I would place these "caractheristics" of both BTC ang Gold on such a group that would make them more of a store of value asset and less a currency. BUt as store of value it´s true that the shine of BTC o a digital drive will make people want it and it´s scarcity will or is driving price up...There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Kakmakr on August 28, 2017, 07:38:11 AM Transmitting wealth without boundaries and splitting currencies into 100 000 000 smaller pieces is just too attractive to miss out on. Who will not want to be part of a currency with no central authority? A currency that disrupts multi billion dollar companies? A currency with multiple use cases, like Smart contracts.
Bitcoin has broken the mold and no other currency can keep up with it. The financial world has changed and Bitcoin started it all. ^smile^ Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: arpon11 on August 28, 2017, 09:07:13 AM That is why bitcoin has a limit of quantities to mining. If the supply is limited then the demand will be high and demand and price has the same move in curve. Gold and bitcoin has the same inherent value and this creates multiplier infect on there price.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: jostorres on August 29, 2017, 01:34:47 PM Transmitting wealth without boundaries and splitting currencies into 100 000 000 smaller pieces is just too attractive to miss out on. Who will not want to be part of a currency with no central authority? A currency that disrupts multi billion dollar companies? A currency with multiple use cases, like Smart contracts. Yes, bitcoin has completely changed the map of financial world and it has removed all boundaries. Indeed, people are highly enchanted towards bitcoins because of their decentralized nature. People are damn sick of getting controlled by corrupt politicians and paying taxes for wars. Bitcoins are a relief for all of us. Bitcoin has broken the mold and no other currency can keep up with it. The financial world has changed and Bitcoin started it all. ^smile^ Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: bitcoinmaniac52 on September 24, 2017, 12:24:14 AM Bitcoin does online what gold does offline. It really is that simple when it all comes down to it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Nerman on September 24, 2017, 01:52:35 AM Had a thought today while running... There has been much discussion over the value of a Bitcoin when one removes its use as a money. There are issues with the regression theorem, etc. Gold clearly has value beyond its use as money. Primarily, it looks pretty and is thus perpetually desired for ornamentation. There are other uses, but this is where gold originally got its value - from its pretty shine. Observers of gold are fascinated by it - attracted to it due to its properties. Well... is this not also true with Bitcoin? When Bitcoin was first discovered and released, was it not initially desired for its curious nature? Were initial adopters not attracted to it due to its strange properties, much like ancient man was attracted to gold? Of course, it's the geeky crypto people who were initially attracted, but I think it's a fair point that they picked up these early bitcoins purely because "they were cool to look at and hold" - albeit on a digital drive. Even for those like me who don't fully understand the cryptography, Bitcoins are damn cool. They are intrinsically interesting and attractive. Gold is also intrinsically interesting and attractive. Both commodities attract the observer, and their monetary usage subsequently sprang forth in like manner because both commodities possess those properties which make them great forms of money (scarcity, divisibility, authenticity, etc.). Does this not satisfy the regression theorem? I agree with this 100% a value of anything will only depend on how many people are actually interested and attracted on it. As of the moment even though the price is around $3800 -$4000 there are still millions of people who don't know what Bitcoin is and also millions are still not invested on it. Once more people will invest in cryptocurrency i assure you the price will be 10x more the current price. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Rajamuda on September 24, 2017, 04:34:50 AM The origin of bitcoin values is created by the growing technological development that is on the internet, the price grows from the development of bitcoin itself over time and everything that influences it. As for gold, we know the value of gold developed does not use technological developments such as the internet, gold is born from this natural wealth, the value of gold is influenced by the law of supply and demand is still unstable as like as bitcoin.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: BlueStackz on October 13, 2017, 01:13:34 PM Bitcoin does online what gold does offline. It really is that simple when it all comes down to it. I think there is little bit difference. Gold is gold and bitcoin has no physical existence. Most of the people in the present do not believe in bitcoin. It is just a virtual currency. I think it will take a long time to hold all the markets in the world. While just overcome gold will be I think not possible for bitcoin because the original money in this world is only gold and nothing else. Time will show what bitcoin can do for us. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Shenzou on October 13, 2017, 01:20:25 PM Bitcoin does online what gold does offline. It really is that simple when it all comes down to it. I think there is little bit difference. Gold is gold and bitcoin has no physical existence. Most of the people in the present do not believe in bitcoin. It is just a virtual currency. I think it will take a long time to hold all the markets in the world. While just overcome gold will be I think not possible for bitcoin because the original money in this world is only gold and nothing else. Time will show what bitcoin can do for us. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: krogothmanhattan on October 13, 2017, 01:56:34 PM Only 21 million bitcoins to ever be mined.....many lost so that lowers the total amount that will ever be in circulation ;)
Gold still being dug out there on a daily basis..who knows how many more tons to be discovered. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Mr. Legendaris on October 13, 2017, 03:48:09 PM I think bitcoin investment is more profitable and valuable than anything including, after today the price reaches $ 5800 then tomorrow or Monday the price will reach $ 7000.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: pereira4 on October 13, 2017, 04:12:19 PM Funny to see this guy now working for the banks and performing a 51% attack on bitcoin trying to push the segwit2x code with bribed miners and merchants. OP is the CEO of Shapeshift in case you missed it, and he supports segwit2x. A reminder to not use Shapeshift ever again.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Jovovich on October 13, 2017, 04:20:41 PM I think bitcoin investment is more profitable and valuable than anything including, after today the price reaches $ 5800 then tomorrow or Monday the price will reach $ 7000. And as long as you are knowledgeable in trading then its fine to be with the forum. A lot of price predicting are now being created in a thread but i suppose they can be achieved because their will are some upcoming events for new innovation of bitcoin technology. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Smarty14392 on October 14, 2017, 10:27:17 AM Only 21 million bitcoins to ever be mined.....many lost so that lowers the total amount that will ever be in circulation ;) Well my friend, you have nicely explained why bitcoin is better than gold. Yes the most important factor that makes bitcoin a better selection is the limited supply of bitcoin whereas the gold is in countless tons available which does not allow gold prices to fluctuate much. Gold has become the traditional way of saving money and making profit. Gold still being dug out there on a daily basis..who knows how many more tons to be discovered. It does not meet the demands of current era. Everything is so fats at present and so should be the method of making profit. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: zeaderza on October 17, 2017, 11:03:48 AM Only 21 million bitcoins to ever be mined.....many lost so that lowers the total amount that will ever be in circulation ;) Tones and millions are just the no the main thing is popularity and bitcoin has beat gold in this aspect in past people buy gold when it is at low prices and then sell at high prices to earn profit but everything is changed now bitcoin replaces gold and now everyone is using bitcoin for this purpose and lot more one day bitcoin will take over the currency of the world.Gold still being dug out there on a daily basis..who knows how many more tons to be discovered. Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: ReLieD on October 17, 2017, 11:33:16 AM Even though Bitcoin is on the headlines it doesn't mean that it will be used as a mean to compare means . Well , I use Bitcoin just to see the rates of other Cryotocurrencies and then compare it with Bitcoin just to make few predictions and assumptions.
Title: Re: Bitcoin and Gold - origins of value Post by: Monnt on October 18, 2017, 06:12:23 PM Funny to see this guy now working for the banks and performing a 51% attack on bitcoin trying to push the segwit2x code with bribed miners and merchants. OP is the CEO of Shapeshift in case you missed it, and he supports segwit2x. A reminder to not use Shapeshift ever again. It is really funny. You are not going to be the first person I will get this news from and I was really puzzled on how those who started with the community and totally understood the concept right from the onset could get so greedy after all, and decided to usher in a centralized currency. That really sucks! Well, that is how life is anyway, but I am sure they will understand eventually that the community cannot be compromised as well as the dream. Shapeshift now in my blacklist forever. ;D |