Bitcoin Forum

Some people argue that something cannot ever be considered as money if you cannot get credit through it, so for example you want to buy real estate and you need a loan, this needs government approval. How can Bitcoin ever reach that point of acceptance by a government if ultimately Bitcoin is disruptive against all states and governments? Or can Bitcoin be money even if it can only be used as a gold substitute?

Some people say the earth is flat.....


No, you don't.


Where did you get that idea from?
Look at what Japan did.


Actually this is one tricky question now that I think about it....
From my point of view as long as it used to pay for goods and services and accepted by somebody it qualifies as money and I don't really see BTC right now being used as a gold substitute only and more "also like a gold substitute"

What about getting credit through private companies, without government acceptance. You could technically do the same thing that's being done on this forum. Get an escrow, provide collateral and get a credit from a private owner.
You can't expect the credit in cryptocurrency to work just like it does in fiat because there's no infrastructure behind it. Not enough specialized lawyers, bailiffs, notaries for it to work on a large scale.
There are companies that offer BTC loans, like this one: https://nebeus.com/

The characteristics of money are well known to almost everyone in the forum and I have yet to see one instance in which being able to give credit was part of any definition that I have ever seen, second loans do not need the approval of governments, do you need to get permission of the government to lend 10 dollars to your friend? Banks face regulations regarding the interest rates they can charge and several other factors, but they do not need permission from the government.

You can loan your bitcoin in real state because bitcoin is like your investing wallet its like a ATM card or bank accounts

If bitcoin wouldnt be so volatile government might reconsider their actions towards bitcoin. Anonymity is also one thing to look at since most bitcoin users are anonymous except for the ones who do trading at the market.


We are using it as a "money right now, but government and most financial institute look the other way. Without the acknowledgement of the government bitcoin will still be a bubble, scam etc. and wont come near gold.

This senerio you raised is appertaining to legality of bitcoin. Where the government has to approve a loan whose primarily source of repayment or refund is bitcoin whose legality is still hanging and debated, it means the deal is failled already.

Obviously, this is a real and positive senerio you have come up with and my response is, based on if the jurisdiction has legalised bitcoin or not. Hence, if it has not, the loan might not pull through .

You can only buy real estate with bitcoin IF the government in which where you are trying to buy real estate allows it, so at least when it comes to real estate, bitcoin is still subjected to government approval, therefore the state/government has an huge amount of control on what bitcoin can do. Not being able to buy real estate with it is a constant sell pressure for bitcoin since anyone wanting to do real estate business is forced to take a pretty big dump for fiat first. This is a problem.

If one could buy real estate directly with bitcoin, you would give the real estate to the owner and this bitcoin would (in principle) be converted back to fiat. Now the owner can do whatever he wants but at least it isn't a requirement.

I know some people has bought real estate with BTC but these cases are still:

1) Marginal
2) Still has government approval otherwise it wouldn't be happening

I don't think that what you're saying is in fact truth at all. Being considered as money has nothing to do with gaining credit, there is absolutely no link whatsoever. By that logic when a friend lends you some sugar because you are out of sugar and you'll buy him some more next week, then sugar is a 'money'.

You do not need government approval to get a loan, the bank or some private individual signs this off, of course they must comply with government regulation but they do not need approval from the government.

How is bitcoin disruptive to states and governments? Your point here is irrelevant anyways as my above point explains.

Bitcoin can be money, in fact you could argue it already is, the most basic of defintions are along the lines of 'something that can be used as a medium for exchange of goods and services' one could argue bitcoin already fits this definition.

Bitcoin is not a gold substitute and never will be, they are entirely different things. There are of course similarities in that they are both scarce and finite. Otherwise they function very differently, bitcoin being digital and gold being physical are the most obvious of things. Bitcoin has steps to overcome to be accepted as a payment method but it is entirely possible this could happen, with gold it will not happen, it is too bulky to be used.

we are credited through the use of bitcoin but the centralization and acceptance of the government will be impossible up to this day because we all knew that bitcoin is not a government property and so many people are using it instead of banks. it can't be for real estate.

You can easily lend your BTC to anyone, but it is important to make sure about the reliability of the borrower.  If banks do not give loan in BTC then some decentralised companies will support this business idea. Now also there are some companies which are into these service, so it does not matter loan is of a private co. Or from a bank.

Right now, I highly doubt that the banks will give you a loan using your bitcoins as collateral. Right now the governments are not even in support of cryptocurrencies yet. They will indeed deny you the chance of getting that loan. In fact, the banks are also against it as they see it as a threat to their business. Also another point to consider is the volatility of cryptocurrency. Since they will loan you fiat that would mean they would be exposed to exceptional risks due to the volatility. Say for example you loaned $19,000 and used 1 BTC as collateral back when prices were that high, they would be losing now since the price is just $10,000-$12,000 ranges.

Well if you have to ask this then I don't know what to say, it's pretty obvious that bitcoin poses an huge problem for capital controls in all states, as someone is able to move millions worth of money overseas, in a pre-bitcoin time, this was impossible, it is a game changer, and you no longer need a bank to store a ton of money.

My point was, you still need the state's approval to own real estate. You are not going to buy a house if the estate doesn't consider your money from legit origin. You can't magically bypass this fact.

All of the things that we all think its not possible with bitcoin at the moment are only relying on just one thing to happen and every other things will fall in place. I can say boldly that the moment government recognises bitcoin as every other section of the economy and even going beyond the use of it as collateral, we will then be able to use it to pay for school fees, register for conferences, pay our taxes, shop in malls, pay for hotels, pay for concert, watch movies with it, and funniest one is even the payment of tithes and offering in church. How bitcoin can be used as collateral, its just for you to deposit your private keys, a form of restriction is placed on it then when you finish paying, you get back your details.

To make a loan in Bitcoin is no different that to make one in a foreign currency: may be you gain, may be you lose.
I think that for now, with a so high volatility, it's impossible to use bitcoin for loan: to have a monthly payment of which you do not know the amount will be a too big stress!

None of that really matters unless and until we see approval for the bitcoin itself. Lol.

Without that we are unable to use the bitcoin in real world. Buying real estate would cost you lot money and this transfer can be tracked very easily and you might get into cyberspace trouble. Anyway that depends on the country of residence and how does your government looks after it.

In addition to this, there are few of the stories (or rumours) where people bought real estate with their bitcoin but again we don’t have confidence on that how they did it.

My very first concern is government itself, as long as they don’t allow you to trade bitcoin legally until then there is no next move.

There are Coins and projects that can help with that. I know of Atlant because I did a bounty for them. You can check it out.

You can use bitcoin  for loan for estate because bitcoin is a cashless currency it's like your bank account or your ATM card that you can pay anything with the power of bitcoin

In theory, it's already possible; but the bitcoin price is on roller coaster, moreover in these days, so it would be completely crazy to make a real estate loan in bitcoin: if you are on monthly paycheck, it would be too risky.

As more and more media outlets expound upon the rise of cryptocurrency; consumers and investors are looking at new ways to get involved. With increased optimism in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, those investing are speculating on the potential growth and use cases of this market that may not even come to fruition for another 5-10 years. Some people argue that something cannot ever be considered as money if you cannot get credit through it,How can Bitcoin ever reach that point of acceptance by a government if ultimately Bitcoin is disruptive against all states and governments?
With the rise of cryptocurrency value, crypto-investors will be heading into 2018 with more valuable assets. From car dealerships to eBay sellers, look for more vendors of all types to start accepting cryptocurrencies as payment. But, the vendors won’t necessarily want to speculate on future value and will look to trade crypto back to cash. That could put some downward pressure on crypt.

Loans for real estate are quite different. But what about getting credit through private companies, without government acceptance. You could technically do the same thing that'sbeing done on this forum. Get an escrow, provide collateral and get a credit from a private owner.  Agents can actually get clients by explaining bitcoins to them. These can somehow help them sell estates in the very fastest way and can either earn easily itself.

If legal methods are to be used, it can be used with a perfect system as it is in the banking system. It is not known how many people prefer to use it in the first time, but it is unavoidable that the rate of usage in the future will be high. Of course, you will have to think about the basic factors like exchange rate, interest rate system. I think it is possible if the buyer is required or the government approves the rules in such a way that the seller is not a victim.

I don't think that this will ever work no matter how much h a government accepts Bitcoins, I mean when we look at it rationally we would be able to realize that fiat is something that's most stable and considering Bitcoins as collateral would be completely wrong to be honest.
It's forever fluctuating .

A collateral needs to have certain charactersticks that is not being met by the bitcoins.

It should be moreorso stable , universally acceptable ( if not universally then it should be acceptable country wide)
It Should hold it's value ! Bitcoins never does , keeping a collateral is no luck by chance thing you need a for sure security thing and that's not something that Bitcoins could reach .

Its possible loan requirement standards will need to be lowered in the near future to keep demand constant and prevent prices from declining off of a diminishing number of buyers being able to afford real estate. It is possible sellers of real estate could become desperate enough to accept crypto currencies as a form of payment. Crypto has a good market cap and decent liquidity, it could be the logical avenue to tap in case the buying market of real estate significantly declines in a way which threatens peoples businesses and livelihoods.

If not, I would guess there are ways around the standard requirements. Loan requirement standards are falling all the time and government programs to subsidize real estate loans in an effort to keep demand constant have been a priority in the past in order to help bailout our too-big-too-fail banks. So, its possible market forces and fundamentals are in favor of crypto being somewhat supported in real estate transactions leading into the future.

If not "creative financing" for real estate has been on the rise for awhile now. People don't have money to afford real estate or rent and so deals are being made. Bitcoin and crypto could have a place in this, assuming they do not already.

Government that didn't accepts BTC yet will really not accepts it, and those countries who embraces crypto might not have yet this option since implementation of bitcoin and applications were still under process.

There is still no point in giving out cryptocurrency loans if there is no one going to accepted in the real world. You can't basically just go on a house for sale and say, "hey I'd like to buy this house, here's 10 Bitcoins." Unless that is already possible then bitcoin loans for purposes of real estate is not feasible at all. I don't think real estate owners are that desperate to trust crypto yet. All of us here on the forum may think otherwise and we completely trust crypto, but that is not true with most people outside this forum.

In digital world, I think bitcoin is like gold in real world. Bitcoin is more safe to keep and as investment bitcoin is more profitable than gold. Maybe in the future, bitcoin can be set as bail on the bank

It can be possible for now. There are plenty of ICO that been using lending system in real estates but not in the form of bitcoin bit in their own made crypto, better research some real estate coins that can help you with this. Crypto is a good asset now depending on their specific use.

i think for that first btc should be legalized by government first, and to be a currency to be able to buy real estate, there must be a law that regulates it, because it will certainly relate with bank

I really don't get it.

If people don't have money to pay a loan how would they have crypto to pay it?
It's the same as saying you don't have 100$ but you have 100 euros.

In February I paid a monthly rate with some funds from my exchange as I was caught off-guard by the lovely spending habits of my wife, but cryptos are basically money, you have BTC you have usd or pounds or dollars too. I doubt somebody would be that keen on holding that it would ignore bills and warnings from the bank while he has the option to sell a few BTC and pay the bill. What difference does it make it's in usd or BTC as long you pay the same amount?