Bitcoin Forum

there was a saying is that ,btc's price can not drop down bellow its mining cost.e.g,if btc's mining cost is 5000 $,btc cant drop bellow 5000 $,if the price is lower than 5000$ ,the mines could be paralysised ,so btc transacion cant work either.the statement sounds reasonable.to avoid this situation ,btc's price must be above its mining cost.
On other hand, the difficulty of mining btc is growing harder and harder ,if one day the mining cost goes up to the moon ,e.g, 100,000,000 $,would the price of btc  also go to that level of price?but the height of price cant be maintained that high,people would of course change their btc to fiat currency,so i think its quite contradictory to ballance btc price and the mining cost.what do you think of this paradox?

I don’t think that correct.

The difficulty of mining bitcoin has been climbing rapidly for the past 30-45 days. And I don’t see the price going up for bitcoin.

It is the other way around. As simple as that.

Its a view based on simplistic view of economics, making assumption that miner wont run at a loss.  This overlooks firstly that they are running a loss from day 1 to day n when they break even on capital outlay, secondly miners could anticipate future increases (so recovering loses later) and thirdly that running a small loss to cover some costs is better than not running at all.

that is mostly speculation and only partly might be true as miners may not let the drop go on by doing some manipulation or something like that. but generally how much it costs to mine depends on the difficulty and nothing else.

it is actually pretty simple if you look at it like that. imagine if price was $100 and mining bitcoin could give you $110. assuming you have no cost, it barely is profit.
now imagine if price was $100 and mining bitcoin could give you $500 profit. what would have happened was that a LOT of people saw this profit and started mining until difficulty went up and profit became $110 again.
and guess what, difficulty has been rising as the price rose last year from $1000 to $20000 which shows a LOT of people saw that profit and started mining. the hashrate grow:
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate
https://blockchain.info/charts/difficulty

Miners selling coins to cover costs could affect the price of Bitcoin.
Mining costs could influence the transaction fees more than the price of Bitcoin imho.

I heard that bitcoin mining difficulty is adjusted after a certain number of block so it is not a problem for miners. If bitcoin price goes lower, then mining difficulty will be adjusted. I don't know how long it takes to adjust the mining difficulty.

Yes of course, the more profit that minner bitcoin get the more people want to be bitcoin minner the more people who interested to bitcoin then the price of bitcoin will be increase, its about sentiment, if people think that there are many good potential in bitcoin then people will buy bitcoin thwn cause to the increasing price of it.

It will affect but not that much. It can only determine the lowest bitcoin price, not the highest value of Bitcoin.

Better believe it some anticipated that it will develop till it hits 100k. Idk truly what will happen on the off chance that we are talking factually that number is valid on the off chance that we endeavor to anticipate utilizing the numbers we have now it will achieve 100k yet idk know whether that model contains the imperatives that may happen if BTC hits high costs.

This is close to truth. Additionally mining as the method of getting crypto is becoming less profitable each coming day. Today miners can earn a bit only if they use expensive mining farms.

Miners keep shifting from one coin to another just like investors do when bitcoin's price goes down or up. Miners will always mine the coin that is profitable for mining s mining cost is quite unlikely to affect price directly.

Its price mostly depend upon demand because supply is always limited regardless of number of miners mining it. 

I think that yes, of course.

no but mining cost make bitcoin legit.bitcoin mining is not free so bitcoin is legit and future of money.

The mining cost is very little to affect the bitcoin price because the more affecting the bitcoin price is the market condition of the crypto. If the market conditions more and more enthusiasts and supply a coin dwindling then the price of a coin will soar, as it is the law in the economy. However, it is fair to say that mining costs can be the benchmark for the minimal price of a crypto especially bitcoin because with the blockchain technology applied all the bitcoin transactions are processed by the miners so that if there are no miners it may not be validated. Then with that, we must know in advance how the basics of work and transaction process of a crypto with the technology.

I agree with this. Besides if they all surrendered with the difficulty there is a lot more people who are now mining other coins will take over.
They cannot do it because of that difficulty.
Someone made this clear to me. He is now mining Zcash I think.
Bitcoin mining needs a high powered hardware now. But with all of them gone it will be an easier path to others and will give them opportunity to have bitcoin.

No, in fact the price can drop below the mining cost. If this happens, some miners will stop or reduce mining and the difficulty will be reajusted. Don't forget too that the mining cost isn't the same in all countries, so some countries will stop mining before some others.

Currently, with a block reward of 12.5 coins every 10 minutes, 1800 BTC are created every days, which is worth 14400000$ at 8000$ per coin. We can't compare this with daily transaction volume, because daily transaction volume isn't the real amount of money invested every days.

You might know too that we didn't needed 141bn$ to get the 141bn$ market cap, real whole amount invested in bitcoin is much lower. In this article, the author calculated we had around 10bn$ really invested in cryptocurrencies: http://jamescrypto.com/the-difference-between-inflow-and-market-cap-and-how-it-relates-to-tethers/

Anyway, the market must afford 14.4m$ of sold coins everydays, this doesn't seem that much but if you multiply by 100 days, you'll see that we are at 1.4bn$, which begins to be a big number versus these 10bn$ total investment. This is is why you can consider that indeed, mining cost must be influent for BTC price.

I also think it is the other way around.  Mining costs mysteriously rise with the price of bitcoins.  Mining gear specifically.  They are sold not by cost to make them, but by how much people are willing to pay.  So if the price of bitcoins goes up, mining machine demand rises sharply, more are produced, network difficulty rises, etc. 

If mining cost surpasses price, then miners would either mine at a loss and hold coins to sell in the future, or switch to a different coin that is still profitable.  Some will switch and network difficulty goes down, also fewer people want machines.  So the network self adjusts.  I am not an expert on mining, but I would expect in the long run that equipment costs would come pretty close to expected returns, because if it didn't more people would mine (thus reducing profit etc.)

The difficulty of mining has nothing to do with the price of BITCOINS at all because if that is the case then it should be going up or down because the difficulty rate is increasing all the time, just like the stock markets, The value of Bitcoins is dependent on the policies of several countries towards Bitcoins.

I also think that way but as we can see number of miners did not affect the price of bitcoin. Usually, if there are lot of miners then probably it is difficult for a block to mine. The mining is difficult and it is unprofitable if there are lot of competitors in mining.

It would affect the price of the coins on the market if the miner decided to sell all the coins that he made from mining Bitcoin.

The price of bitcoin in 2009 was well below $ 5,000 and miners still extracted it. Even with the lower complexity of production, bitcoin did not bring that much profit. For miners, there is a fixed reward and bitcoin production is due to the enthusiasm of miners. And the bitcoin price is basically from  demand.

I don't think that mining affect bitcoin a lot. Though mining increases the number of bitcoin a lot. Yet I think what really affects the price of bitcoin is really the matter of demand. It's a question of demand and supply. As long as we have demand for it the price is always gonna be high.

In the long run, Bitcoin price will tend towards mining cost. Even Satoshi knew that.
Edit: In the even longer run it will relate to the transaction fees, since mining will be over after the 21Mio limit.

I think the mining cost sets the lowest value of Bitcoin, but the highest value depends entirely on market sentiment (which is why it varies so much). Because of the mining cost, though, I don't believe it can every go really low again (say $1000 or so).

yes, when price go up, so minnig will continued by miners, but when price fall, some miners do not work in the pool

The production cost of BTC is about: mining machine, electric power, site, personnel, logistics and other expenses.

It can be seen that if the price of BTC is not enough to cover the cost of mining, then a lot of minerals will be shut down!

The impact of mining cost on BTC price is also huge!

If the miners shut down, difficulty will also decrease.

This will once again encourage miners to mine again. Bringing the market to an equilibrium.

In actual here this factor joined with the bitcoin's price indirectly .
Most of the people where mining profitable make mining of the btc ( e.g in China ) but at that cost at which they get bitcoin don't ant bitcoin to sell Because they want make some profit from the bitcoin sell at high. Price , so surely they will hold bitcoin for that time until the price get up than at hat rate they made bitcoin .
So here we can say that there is a type of basic support of the price of the bitcoin with the miners mining rate of cost .

I think it does not matter much because mining Btc also requires investment and operational costs.
there are still many ways to get btc. maybe someone can explain in more detail

It affects but nothing more. It can determine the lowest price of Bitcoin but not the highest. Bitcoin is not made of mining. So its legit is not in the future. Prices of long-term Bitcoin prices will be trending.

It is only natural that many would argue that bitcoin prices will not be lower than mining costs because miners do not want to lose, let alone miners' services is to confirm a bitcoin transaction within every block they mine. These factors obviously affect the bitcoin price and I'm sure bitcoin will continue as long as the miners are still actively doing their activities.

the more benefit from bitcoin miner, the more people want to be a bitcoin miner, the more people who are interested in bitcoin, then the price of bitcoin will rise

Yes i think is is true that bitcoin mining cost affect for drop down bitcoin price.Mining bitcoin cost is very hige and people can not mining bitcoin now.If bitcoin mining cost going to low all people mining in bitcoin and as soon as bitcoin price winn increase soon.

I agree. It's just that mining, right now, has been one of the most difficult and advanced ventures that not many dare to actually try it. It's expensive to support, plus the capital you actually need to shed off just to set up not one but several mining rigs just for the venture to be profitable. And as many coins are reaching their market cap, it becomes increasingly harder to mine coins. which means, I think that there is an effect to Bitcoin how much cost is needed for it to be mined. Although I think that it's not significant because there has been a lot of Bitcoin in circulation now, and whatever is being mined are just additional assets to do business with.

As far as I know that the btc price will affect the cost of mining, formerly the cost of mining is cheap and over time and bitcoin prices continue to increase then the cost of mining is also increasing. That's what I see so far.

in my opinion that can`t be true because every miner has a different cost of mining which depends on some other factors in addition miners can mine and hold btc to increase by making the mining with lower costs than the price.

I think the ming don't have any affects on bitcoin price, because the mean reasons why bitcoin rises up and slowong down is the market price, the more investors on bitcoin the higher its value is but when its not then it will gp down.

According to me, the valuation of BTC is somehow related to BTC but not that much completely because there are millions of miners through out the world, who are mining and according to which there should be the fluctuation in the valuation of BTC every second but it is not so. The valuation of BTC is mainly depends on the number of investors investing into BTC and the market price, higher the number of investors, higher will be the valuation of BTC.

In my opinion, the cost of extraction will not affect the bitcoin value. But the operators themselves are smart investors. The paradox here is that they exploit to hold for change according to supply and demand rules. They can create long term FUDs without much impact on their process.

Yes, I think the cost of mining will affect the lowest price of bitcoin. When the lowest price of bitcoin is lower than the long cost of mining, the miners will stop working, which will affect the operation of the bitcoin network. So I don't think bitcoin will last much longer than the cost of mining.

Theres no such thing. Suppose the price drops to $3k today then all the miners who aren't profitable will shut their miners down and this will cause the hash rate to drop and this drop will lower the bitcoin mining difficulty which in result will lower the cost to mine bitcoin. The miners will keep on shutting and the hash rate will keep on dropping until it reaches a point where its profitable to mine again.

Media is a very strong tool for promoting something new in the society infact with the advent of the technology especially the internet it is very helpful for the information dissemination of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies out their that are very helpful for the welfare of people and of the human development. With the help of social media outlets in the internet such as facebook, tweeter instagram and the likes bitcoin has a big chance to make people understand and open their eyes of how bitcoin can help them and everyone in the world.

It's beyond the calculations of the bitcoin creator and that puts pressure on the dev team of bitcoincore. I believe the future will have better bitcoin solutions. It is possible that the bitcoin is changed to a larger coin that has a larger number of tokens.

However, the most important distinguishing feature of bitcoin is its decentralized nature. The treatment and release of bitcoins is not controlled by any institution.

Thats true but it is partly true about the selling affecting the prices of the bitcoin. I mean just imagine the number of miners who are immediate seller of the coins might be very less. If the big cartels do that then yeah off course its huge amount they might be dumping and thus making the major change on the market scale too.


Is this correct or is it exactly opposite to this one? I mean isn't it is when the prices of bitcoin increases a lot then the people start transacting heavily and thus increasing the load on miners. This in turn makes the miners to increase the fees heavily and the end result. I mean I am confused is it the way you say it or me?

I don't actually agree with this one. though, mining increases the number of bitcoin a lot. Yet I think what really affects the price of bitcoin is really the matter of demand. It's a question of demand and supply. As long as we have demand for it the price is always gonna be high and could be low if there is correction or regulation.

Well, what I will say is that people tend to look at the dollar equivalent of bitcoin and think of mining dirsctly affecting mining but that isn't the real user case. The cost of mining is set to get faster transactions so anyone can choose whether low, medium or high. People compare the txn cost of eth with btc. Ask yourself that if eth and btc were of the same price, which of the two would have been charging higher?